Proxy raised the issue of FGM a while back on OLO, but now it seems our doctors are to discuss performing a ritual 'nick' leagally in the hope of reducing the incidence.

This is step one in legalising FGM.

We have laws against FGM, in all states. What the good doctors should be discussing is how to presure the governments and our spineless politicians into enforcing those laws.

Not one person has been prosecuted, yet the evidence is available.

Because of 'cultural considerations' we have tried education, which has cost millions and failed.

Little Aussie girls should not have to endure this torture and it is well past time that we insisted that prosecutions take place, with serious penalties. Our governments are a joke!

Hi Banjo.. I think the 'nick' is actually the removal of the clitorus.
(correct me anyone if I'm wrong)

But.. Banj...welcome to the world of double speak :)

"He is a terrorist"...no.."He is a freedom fighter"

"She is a country shopper"..no.."She is a persecuted victom of evil"

"I and my ideological bedfellows are going to take over the world"

No..we are just going to have a "Global framework of governance"

Andy Stern.. SEIU union boss and communist, had 22 visits to the white house. He says "We are trying to use the power of persuasion.. and if that doesn't work we will use the persuasion of POWER"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzGuVd9E_lA&feature=related

FGM.. "a little nick" it's all about language.

The US union pension bailout (shifting unsustainable pension debt onto taxpayers) is now called the "Create Jobs and Save Benefits Act of 2010”.

Take our country back people! Don't vote Green or Labor

AGiR,
I understand that a 'nick' can be performed two ways.

1) A needle is inserted into the tip of the clitoris until it bleeds.

or

2) A small section is removed from the tip of the clitoris.

Because of the nerves in the clitoris, either would be very painful, something akin to hitting ones finger with a hammer.

Neither is acceptable and is against the law in Aus.

This really is the first step in legalising FGM and should not be contemplated at all.

We actually need people to tell our governments to get some spine and start prosecuting the parents of these little girls. Further, we need to stop immigrating people of those cultures that practice FGM.

We have now reached the point where women who had FGM done to them here in Aus, are now getting it done to their own daughters. Such is the entrenchment of the practice.

Newcomers of the same culture 'refresh' the practice so we are losing the battle to eliminate it.

Banjo: The way I read it was the doctors are realising just how widespread the practice is getting.
So far, not one parent has been prosecuted. WHY?
Is it because the dept of heath (hospitals) are just too PC?

What about the rights of the little girls?

Is it possible that FGM can become an election issue along with the boat people?

abby,
I have trouble getting figures as the governments are not keen to gather stats relating to the incidence of alien cultural practices, such as FGM and forced marriages. The politicians prefer to ignore such issues.

The last time I asked the NSW Health Minister why no one has been charged, the reply was 'that there are cultural considerations' and no, I do not understand that.

Few seem interested in the rights of the little girls so I do not think it will be an election issue. Perhaps if one or two girls die from shock, bleeding or infection, law enforcement may follow.

FGM caused the GFC, LOL. I wonder what they think about FGM at GMH? OMG, FGM on ABC? UAE? DRC? IDK... WTF?

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

The practice is barbaric. The circumsicion of males and females should be banned not only because of its barbarism but lack of consent on the part of the child, and the health risks involved. Circumcision is not mentioned in the Koran and is practised in many non-Islamic cultures in Africa.

It seems to pre-date the rise of Christianity and Islam. This is becoming a real problem in the UK now with 1000s of schoolgirls facing the prospect of FGM in unhygienic backyard situations.

There are many Muslims now fighting to ban FGM and Imams coming in to the debate denouncing the practice in places like Mauritania. I think that is the best way to fight this practice ie. from within those cultures that practise it.

http://www.alertnet.org/db/an_art/58388/2010/00/21-170431-1.htm

Banning won't stop it but will send a clear message that FGM and circumcision won't be tolerated in societies that value the contribution of all it's citizens regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, age etal.

I dont agree. Male circumcision, in my experience, has really not been a drama so far. I keep checking it constantly, you know, just to make sure there are no cracks or imperfections but mostly it passes muster with flying colours. Its form and function are equal to or greater than my carrot-shaped counterparts, and so the building analogy is that of a bit of fibro blocking the view.

Girls bodies should be left alone, unless theres some reason to see the doctor.

What pelican said.

I think that laws against FGM should be enforced, and further that the mooted 'ritual nick' should not be countenanced in Australia. I gather that it's been rejected in the US now, so it's unlikely to be adopted here anyway.

My position derives from the interests of the children who are subject to these anachronistic, unnecessary and quite barbaric practices.

Of course, the same arguments can be applied to male children, who are still commonly circumcised for 'health' reasons in Australian hospitals.

I was circumcised when I was born, but my adult son wasn't, basically since the hospital policy at the time was anti-circumcision and neither his mother nor I could think of a good reason for him to be surgically mutilated. Twenty years later he seems to be suffering no ill-effects from having a foreskin.

Mind you, I've never noticed any ill-effects from not having one. But how would I know?

Seriously, I think that any form of genital (or other) surgery on children should be performed only on strictly medical grounds. Religious tolerance shouldn't extend to child abuse, IMHO.

Banjo: my gut feeling is that the health depts will keep the figures under wraps. I seriously doubt that any story, no matter even if a few little girls die will make it into the newspapers.
FGM is not mentioned in the Koran, but a friend of mine said that it is part of Sharia law.
On another forum I'm on the feeling was if Australians allow this FGM, we might as well allow their other beliefs to be accepted. Like honour killings and killing apostates.
I think FGM is the line in the sand.

pelican,
Thanks for that link, it is,at least, good that some immans are speaking against the practice. The more that speak out against it the better.

Abby,
Some deaths of young girls may be able to be covered up, but usually there is an inquest by a coroner and then the media report on his findings. When that happens it will bring the issue to the fore and poiticians may then act. It is a pity that we have to wait for such an event, but how often have we seen a dangerous road situation only fixed after a tragety has occured?

FGM is mainly a cultural practice in some Islamic societies, but not exclusively so. I understand it is, or was, practiced in some Christian and Jewish cultures as well. FGM pre-dates religions.

I think you will find the continuing of an alien cultural practice depends on how easy it is to hide it, to some sxtent. Honour killings, killings of apostates and bull fighting are difficult to hide, whereas FGM, female oppression, forced marriages and even cockfighting are easier to hide.

That is why I think we should begin prosecutions for FGM and stop further immigration of the cultures that practice it.

The sooner we 'grasp the nettle' and enforce the law the better.

Pelican is right. The practice is barbaric but not nearly as much as abortion. At least these poor little girls still have their lives.

Banjo:
I agree wholeheartedly with you and strongly advocate
that the laws pertaining to the prevention of this
barbaric ritual be implemented and enforced to the max.

Any individual or group who insist on continuing this
gross sexual assault on children in the name of religion
or customary practice, should be dealt with accordingly
and either imprisoned, or in the case of immigrants
expelled from this country.

The similar customary "traditional mutilation" of
members of the Aboriginal race should likewise be
prevented by implementation of the law and the use
of continuing education to prevent further these
outrageous acts of barbarism.

One would have to wonder what sort of people could
allow their very own children to be butchered this
way in the name of tradition or religion?

Crackcup: << One would have to wonder what sort of people could allow their very own children to be butchered this way in the name of tradition or religion? >>

Interesting question. I suspect that they do it for much the same misguided reasons that many in our society have their infant male children circumcised, i.e. they believe that it is necessary and good for the child, and because they had the same mutilation performed on them.

As I said before, I think that laws against FGM should be enforced. I also think genital surgery on boys should be banned unless there is a specific medical indication.

Careful, runner.

>>The practice is barbaric but not nearly as much as abortion. At least these poor little girls still have their lives.<<

Your relativism is showing.

Crackcup,
Most everyone agrees that FGM is barbaric.

The question now is - How do we generate enough pressure to force politicians to enforce the laws?

I will continue to lobby politicians, but do not seem to be getting very far and I hope that others will do the same.

I will raise the matter whenever possible and write letters to the editor prior to elections as well.

What else can we do? The media and the public in general do not seem really interested. Even less so in forced marriages. I cannot understand this, as it is the torture of pretty little innocent Aussie girls we are talking about.

We may well have to wait until an unfortunate girl dies.

Banjo:
One has to wonder where all the moral principles of our
society have gone to? The public gets all wound up
over the issues of paedaphilia, but remains strangely
silent on these issues of Genital Mutilation.

Maybe the issue only becomes an important issue
when it is affecting individual`s own particular family
members, or if there is a perceived threat from a nearby
unsavoury resident, ie:recently released convicted
paedaephile, as has occured in recent times.

The human race is a very peculiar species and it reacts
very strangely in responding to issues that can have a
devastating effect upon its own offspring, as compared
to the effect upon other members offspring,...it actually
demonstrates the great variance in thought between differing
participants in this great journey through life.

Crackcup: Simply put,any issue that involves Muslim or Islam must be handled in a PC manner. That is why boat people or underage marriages or even multiple wives don't get general public debate because we might "offend them" by disagreeing with them.
No, I am not racist but believe that the Koran is not a book of peace or love like the Christian Bible.
Child molesters seem to cover a broad spectrum of men (and women) when I've never heard in Australian society 10 yrs ago girls being subject to FGM.

There may not have been FGM ten years ago but authorities have always turned a blind eye to the circumcision and sub-incision of Aboriginal boys.

http://www.noharmm.org/aborigine.htm

http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Subincision

As well, child marriage continues - tough luck girls.

The problem seems to be that 'cultural significance' is the PC excuse for such grievous assault of children to continue. Mind you, it is the same manner of PC thinking that results in indigenous children being excluded from the opportunities other children have because they never received a grounding in English.

All children are supposed to have the protection of Australian law and all are supposed to have the same right to a childhood. The question is precisely who is preventing the cops from being able to enforce the law and on what basis?

Some would regard it as trite to mention the unnecessary circumcision of boys that was routine some years ago in Australia and although it is diminishing, is still practised. Why is there a Medicare benefit?

PC isn't just about Muslims.

Cornflower: << Some would regard it as trite to mention the unnecessary circumcision of boys that was routine some years ago in Australia and although it is diminishing, is still practised. Why is there a Medicare benefit? >>

Good point. It's quite apparent that there's something of a double standard applying here, but nobody wants to talk about it.

Why is it OK to perform unnecessary surgery on little boys' genitals for 'traditional' reasons, but heinous child abuse when it's done to little girls?