Let me introduce the new "Messiah"... of the planet that is..

One Maurice Strong. For a while I thought it was StevenLMeyer..but Mr Strong has suprassed all my admiration for Mr Meyer :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7241976031705191691#

A most interesting person to whom we owe the Rio Earth Summit and it's main document "Agenda 21" (heard of that?-trust me..you will :)

Does anyone know anything about this enigmatic and seldom seen/heard man ?

Would anyone like to comment on his contribution to world peace and environmental sustainability ?

We can discuss this and all learn from the experience I'm sure.

Questions to ponder:

1/ DO we need saving ?
http://www.green-agenda.com/greenland.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lindzen

2/ Is the world doomed without Mr Strongs hard and enlightened work and connections to world leaders ?
3/ Is there any possibility of another agenda going on in the mind of Mr Strong? If so..what might it be ?
4/ Does Mr Strong have anything to do with Cap and Trade laws?
5/ To whom is Mr Strong closely connected in business and politics?
6/ What kind of business relationships does Mr Strong have ?
7/ How (if at all) might Cap and Trade laws benefit Mr Strong ?
8/ How (if at all) might all this effect you and me ?

And Question 9 is:

Does this man have any knowledge or position on resource depletion such as OIL or PHOSPHATE and probably several other key ones?

When it comes down to it, we all have a bias or a vested interest be corporate or ideologically based.

Whether Maurice Strong will be the leading force on environmental issues and really cares about the earth and its people, remains to be seen. The cynic in me thinks it is doubtful.

Plucky... please excuse any jibes from me which you might have found offensive..(in other threads) I do stir.

But here..you are making alll the right noises..and dare I say..I might just add to your existing cynicism by a considerable degree.

Between you, me and Renew... we have the beginnings of a good discussion.

RENEW.. good and fair questions.. and I guess the information that will be forthcoming in this thread will answer that.

This issue is without a doubt the biggest single 'thing' we are facing this century.. yep... you heard it here first. Bigger even than the 3rd Reich challenge.

Did you both view the video ? It's most important to see who he is, where he fits.. who he rubs shoulders with.. neccessary background to comprehend what is going on.

Of particular note are the personal connections he made along the way in his journey to the top.

David Rockefella is one....loaned $$$ to buy land for UN building.

Let me know when you've seen the vid.. then we can move on.

Renew.. and Pelican.. a quick couple of questions also.

a) Have you seen 'my' movie/doco "An Inconvenient truth" ?
b) If yes, did it change your beliefs or convictions (i.e..by reinforcing existing beliefs or triggering such beliefs for the first time, about Climate Change?

This matter (those questions) form a vital part of this exercise...please take them seriously.

(same for any other contributor)

cheers

AlGore no offence taken - I equally just state my position. :)

I can't think of many people who have not seen an Inconvenient Truth as yet and even if they have not it has been much reviewed.

It is a good sell job and the evidence at the time did seem convincing. I still think there is a case for argument for AGW but as a layman I have trouble getting around all the contradictory 'evidence'. Humans do at times create major environmental damage for a buck, and not much thought to the long term consequences. These things we know. CC is a little less clearer given some recent findings that some places are cooling.

Even if one were to hold some scepticism about the impact or seriousness of CC, there is certainly much more we can do to protect the environment and to reduce emissions for other reasons.

I am not sure about a cap and trade. The idea of capping emissions is not a bad one should CC emerge as a legitimate crisis, although I would rather a switch to incentives for renewables. Whether it is a CAT or a tax on carbon, the consumer will bear the costs which in one way or another will reduce emissions. As long as the manufacture of renewables does not increase carbon emissions.

ie. can solar panels be manufactured using energy from solar, wind or hydro. Hydro yes, I expect but not sure about the other two and there are varying opinions among scientists and engineers.

There are more questions than answers for me at present so I try to keep an open mind.

AgGoreIR what do you think are some of the ways a CAT might be exploited or misused?

HI Pelican.. what a wonderfully refreshing wind of 'good discussion' is going on here :)

Now..this rather impressed me.

//It is a good sell job and the evidence at the time did seem convincing.//

As to the evidence ? I'm with you there.. there is too much and it's too contradictory for laymen like us to get our heads around.. but the scary thing is.. the people pushing this agenda know that...and exploit it.. I know "I" do :) (i.e..my nick)

Let's try to stay focused on Maurice Strong for a while..because he is the key to unpacking this whole Global Warming deal.

From his web site (Greenies listen up)

DRUM ROLL............
TRUMPETS.............
CURTAIN DRAWS BACK...

TA-DAAAAAAA

"Climate change is the biggest single challenge humans have ever faced. Unlike other problems, which can be solved regionally or sectorally, climate change effects the very future of life on earth. It is the greatest security problem we have ever faced." (Maurice Strong)
http://www.mauricestrong.net/

On that home page.. you will see a number of important bits.

-MAURICE STRONG RECEIVES FRANKLIN D ROOSAVELT "FOUR FREEDOMS AWARD"
-GUARDIAN reports on FOX news Glenn Beck's attacks.

KOFI ANAN SAYS: (of Strong)

It would be a mistake to think of Maurice solely as one of the world's leading environmentalists. His main cause has been people.

Whether he was helping to put the environment on the international agenda in the 1970s, orchestrating the landmark Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992 or assisting me to reform the United Nations to face the challenges of a new era in world affairs, his wish has been to see men and women in all countries leading peaceful lives of dignity, security freedom and opportunity, in harmony with nature and themselves.

WOWWWWWWWWW.. let me just cast myself at his feet and worship him nowwww :)

If you knew where I'm going with all this..you will say "Sheesh..people could not invent this stuff" :) stick with me for the adventure of a lifetime.

Strong says of himself:

"I am a socialist by ideology but a capitalist by methodology" :)

Ponder that for a while folks.

AlGoreIR
I feel like we are being manipulated and drawn into some other agenda of yours, so why don't you get to the point.

I can feel a conspiracy theory coming on. I am not sure which is funnier in regard to conspiracy theories, 9/11 or those who claim the whole GW debate was an elaborate conspiracy between eminent scientists.

While I continue to ask questions on this issue, I don't hold with the hoax/conspiracy response either.

Dear Pelican..

I know where you are coming from. I agree "conspiracy theories" are in the end..boring and frustrating.

This is NOT a 'conspiracy theory'.

Whatever I show you is totally documented from original sources.

Did you see the video about Maurice Strong ? Nothing will mean much aside from that background.. I'm prepared to be patient with this because it is too important to ignore.

Please bear with me on this....

Oh well, at least it makes a change from the 9/11 crap.

As to being manipulated ? no.. I am leading to something yes.. but I prefer to go in smallish steps. How do you feel when some well meaning but oafish evangelist nails you in a public place and gets in your face with "ARE YOU SAVED??".. it's a bit blunt and an afront to your dignity.

Let's take it easy and go slowly. You absolutely will see the point in the end.

CJ.. I cordially invite you to join this discussion.. and you might find it quite interesting. I hope 'Fact-Ferret'(Pericles also helps as he can be sometimes)

Pely..If I boldy proclaimed the destination before showing anything it might color your perception of the information.

But I'll live dangerously :) "Global Warming is a Capitalist Trick"

Which, if true has rather profound implications for those who hang their lives,hearts and minds on it.

If anyone can foresee where I might be bringing Strong into this.. feel free to anticipate and intervene.

INVIOLABLE GUARANTEE "Nothing but Verifiable Facts" :)

Maurice Strong is a lunatic like Prince Charles, who both would like to see the world population reduced to half a million people,so a few elites like themselves, will once again be able to kill lions and all manner of wildlife without a threat to the planet's ecology.It has nothing to do with the enlightenment of mankind.

It is about the raw power eminating from their gonads.They want total control.

HoooooRAY.. Ajay actually knows who this bloke is.. I'm warming to the fray now :)

Onya mate. But rather than just crucify CJs hero :) (if CJ knows whe he is..which I feel confident he does) try to be specific and detailed.. as in documented.
There is plenty to go around..

When you consider that the modern political Green movement is primarily based on the work of THIS ONE man (and a vast network he is connected to, which includes David Rockefeller, George Soros, Mikhail Gorbachov and many others) ..... it behoves us to know about him.

CJ... a change from 9/11 theories ? Don't be suprised if somone tries to connect those theories with Strong and company, it won't be me but there is a lot of 'chatter' in cyberspace which tries to connect the two.

I prefer to remain in the 'well documented and sourced' region where everyone can verify any assertion or claim I make... rather than the whacky arguments of the 9/11 conpiracists. (sorry Arjay..I think you got "9/11 religion" at some stage didn't u ? :) Never mind.. plenty to talk about here.. but let's leave 9/11 out of it for this thread please.

Taking this to the next level.

STRONG QUOTE "I am a socialist by ideology and capitalist by methodology"

STRONG QUOTE.
Licences to have babies incidentally is something that I got in trouble for some years ago for suggesting even in Canada that this might be necessary at some point, at least some restriction on the right to have a child

I think this drivel belongs over in the 'Conspiracy Theories' thread.

CJ morgan.These are the words eminating from their own mouths.Who are the crackpots and lunies? If they are saying these things and not meaning them ,then why destroy your own credibility? Maurice strong was the secretary to the UN and he has a lot of other lunatics of enormous power saying the same outrageous things.

First we have the anti-environmentalists lobby criticising global warming as a socialist conspiracy now someone is suggesting it is a capitalist conspiracy.

It is certainly possible that there are vested interests in global warming policies usually to protect the value of the share price hence we see the constant stream of exemptions and subsidies to assist business with concepts like ETS, which all seems to go against the point of reducing emmissions.

I cannot see how a CAT system could be scammed as such, unless larger corporations held most of the units of trade. And to do that don't they have to prove carbon reduction in their own enterprise?

I will wait patiently anyway for ALGIR to link all these ideas he is tossing around OLO on the various threads.

Aah Pely.. let me first observe a very predictable sequence

1/ I call Strong "CJ's hero" and call it a capitalist trick.

2/ CJ jumps to the defense of the capitalist Strong and calls the thread 'drivel' :)

I'll present a few facts..and feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Please.. don't try to 'persuade' me of anything.. but feel free to present extra verifiable facts for me to think about.

Calling Global warming a 'Capitalst trick' is the easiest and most verifiable of all things to do.

But for those who see good as evil and evil as good..and anything 'green' as good no matter what it is.. well.. I feel sorry for such.

I think we have enough momentum now and participants to go to the next level.

CAPITALIST TRICK ? YES/NO. What is a capitalist ? It is someone with a truck load of money who uses it to maintain a lifestyle of luxury and indulgence while the masses are exploited....

Strong calls himself a "Socialist by Ideology but a Capitalist by methodology" in the case of this alleged quote..I cannot find a reliable source.. but it's niether here nor there because his life and behavior demonstrate that quote whether it is true or not.

Strong called 100 Heads of State to Rio in 1992 for an 'Earth Summit'
From this the Green movement emerged and grew to what we see today.
Little CJ became glazed eyed at the wonder of it all and was captured by the vision :)

STRONGS crimes. (insider trading)
http://securities.stanford.edu/1008/AxlervMoltenMeta/001.html
Look for his name in the Defendants list.

http://webuser.bus.umich.edu/ajhoff/teaching_cases/MMT%20%28A%29%20Case.pdf

In that case study you can see the true nature of the man. Hence Arjays rather blunt comments.

STRONGS CAPITALISM and CONFLICT OF INTEREST.(Market Manipulation)
http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/content.jsf?id=67
Examine the list of names.. see who's crops up :) "Director" of a $10,000,000,000 business "Carbon Trading"

Boaz, I haven't "leapt to Strong's defence". Rather, I think that your attempt to manufacture some conspiracy theory about him is a load of transparently manipulative nonsense.

I'd barely heard of him until you started this silly thread. Suffice to say that he's hardly a leading light in contemporary Green politics. Indeed, he's never been a member of a Green party anywhere.

Others might indulge you in your dumb project, but I'm not going to. As with every other bulldust 'conspiracy theory' , this is all about some alienated frootloops attempting to attract some self-affirmation to their blighted existences. Ciao.

P.S. Look at Boaz! Look at Boaz! He wants some attention.

AAAH CJ... a predictable response from one who does like the idea of him being a dupe of smart people with influential friends and who are the foundation of the Green Movement as a movement, of which CJ is a part.

All I'm doing folks is showing the kind of person who is behind the mainstream 'Green' movement, and raising questions about whether the movement is in fact a tool of powerful people who have a very clear agenda for global governance.

The Global Governance is not a secret..it forms a core piece of the Greens Policy as here.

http://greens.org.au/node/776

Policy E5: Global Governance

Principles:

The Australian Greens believe that:

1. global governance is essential to meet the needs of global peace and security, justice, human rights, poverty alleviation and environmental sustainability.

2. effective means of global environmental governance are needed to halt and reverse the current trends towards environmental decline across the globe, especially with regard to reducing greenhouse gas emissions to mitigate climate change.

NOTICE the close connection between 'Global Governance' and.. 'reducing greenhouse emmissions' :)

Conspiracy theory ? Get real CJ.. it's there in black and white.

STRONG.

100 Heads of State to Earth Summit Rio 1992 >> GREEN MOVEMENT.
Kyoto 'Architect' (Global Governance/Income redistribution)

STRONG.
-Insider Trader (MMT inc)
-Oil for Food scandal
-Capitalist extrordinaire (Director Chicago Climate Exchange)

Dear CJ.. if you didn't know anything about this bloke..then I wish to go on record that this is not about me winning an argument with you. You are welcome to hold any view you like. I am, however very interested in the connection between the Green Movement and Global Governance, which effects all of us.

The problem is...if "Global Warming" is greatly exaggerated, the Greens policy is not only unneccessary but dangerous for our freedom.

CJ...the other 'curious' aspect of Greens Policy is this (in the light of their call for 'GLOBAL' governance)

Under Policy E.6

4. all peoples have the right to self-determination.

5. developing nations have the right to economic independence and to sovereignty.

errr My head just exploded..E5 "GLOBAL" governance....E6 "SELF" determination.

The mischievously cynical (like me) might even dare think the Greens have a quiver of policy arrows for every audience :)

When speaking to Indigenous people... drag out E6.4

When speaking to Greenies and Socialists and PC mob, ..drag out E5 :)

gee...they are starting to look like....*regular politicians*