I've been watching the news, reading
the papers - and frankly I'm sick of
all the politics.

I can't help but wonder - what sort of country this
will be years from now... Will we have
solved our refugee problem? How big
should our population be? Will we have
discovered a cure for cancer and aids?

What about our water shortage problem?
Will we have solved the drought problem,
what about bush-fires? Energy? Will
we go nuclear? Will we become a Republic?

So many questions - and I don't expect
answers to each and every one. However,
I would be interested to hear other
posters views on what sort of country
they would like to see us leave
for our grandchildren? What is your vision
for Australia, and what do you think the
reality will be?

Your thoughts please?

It could go either way Foxy.We must act now and stop the lunatics from going to war.Israel is trying to force a war with Iran.It is all about power and greed.

Our Govt will do the bidding of the war mongerers if we let them.So become aware and do something about it.

what sort of country they would like to see us leave for our grandchildren?
Foxy,
I certainly wish for a nicer one than the one my grandson's grandfather lives in.

global peace and sustainable prosperity once balance is restored between women and men in the instruments of governance which will occur in Australia with the declaration of an equal rights republic within the next few years.

I'm afraid that any answer I give which is sincere.. will be the one you don't particularly wish to hear...

and any I give which sounds GREAT will in fact be either misguided optimism or a scam.

My 'big picture' of the Australia of the future is one where we will have some serious problems. It depends of course on many things.

Our economy is a time bomb.. just waiting for the right trigger.

I'll have much more to say about this soon..when I can get to the figures with more ease..

This is the DFAT big picture which shows instantly that our biggest export is.....COAL.

Can't quite see why we export 7 billion in crude Petroleum and import 12 billion in crude petroleum

Approximately half of our exports come from stuff we dig up or suck out of the ground. The biggest, being coal, is likely to be a target of an increasingly 'Climate Change' oriented world....so.. we might have to kiss that one goodbye soon.

SUMMARY

1/ Mining/resources are finite and will end/deplete.
2/ Agriculture is rather limited to present outputs (weather/water/soil)
3/ Manufacturing will ONLY expand by 'ultra' high tech (but low labor) innovation or by Government/Union deals (short term and not economically viable long term) which will retain workers for the sake of votes.
4/ "Services" exports are equalled by services IMPORTS.
5/ A discovery of large iron ore and coal deposits in Tibet or China will instantly KILL our whole country and economy. (30% of GDP *gone*)

My advice ?

a)Pay off your mortgage. (fast)
b)Learn to cultivate your back yard or block
c) Form networks to barter and just survive.

I'll save the 'good' news for my scam :)

FOXY.. all those other things you mentioned will be of little signifance when the crunch comes .. except... well..you might like to see a preview....here:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/looters-shot-dead-amid-chaos-of-papua-new-guineas-anti-chinese-riots/story-e6frg6no-1225715006615

Dear Arjay,

I'm a bit more optimistic.

I don't think that any power wants a war,
especially when the possibility of a
nuclear war is very real. The risks are
too great.

Dear Individual,

Could you expand just a little on what you
mean by "nicer?"

Dear Whistler,

Your optimism does you credit.

Dear AG,

Let us look at history. Germany was on the
decline after the first world war. Hitler
attempted to revive it with a resultant
total destruction. Today Germany has revived
and is one of the leading economic democracies.
So too Australia will go through a cycle but
it will survive. It will develop new technologies
and will forge ahead.
Let us not forget that many of the great inventions
of the modern technological world came from Australia.
We have the people and the talent in this country to
excel. We don't give up easily. That's the nature of
being Australian.

Foxy,
I just looked up nicer in the dictionary & thesaurus & it means more agreeable, better, more pleasurable etc. very much along the lines I meant. Not at all like our society is at this stage.

I would love it to be like the one I grew up in.

Where I could drive my car into the Sydney CBD, park in the street, & go to the movies.

One where we supplied raw materials to 7 companies, in Sydney alone, who manufactured TV sets, 5 who made refrigerators, 8 who made hair driers, & dozens who actually manufactured things.

One where the blokes working in those factories could keep a wife, a couple of kids, & pay off their house, on the one income.

One where the houses may have been smaller, but the blocks were larger.

One where the shops were shut, & people enjoyed their weekends.

Hell, I always wondered at people slinging off at Howard, as being a man of the 50s. Well, I don;t know all that much of the 50s, but I'd love to have the 60s back.

It would be great if my grand kids could have it as good as I did back then, but I very much doubt it will be as good again.

Dear Foxy,

I'd like to see a return to smaller communities - country and city. I'd like to see the resurgence of local communities in the form of neighbourhood shops and facilities run by locals instead of centralized shopping precincts where there is little chance for personal relationships to develop. I'd like to see people cooperating with each other to provide support in these communities. Perhaps with the looming depletion of oil reserves we can all step out of our capsules and once again move bodily through our environment interacting with our neighbours as we go.

FOXY.. ever the intrepid optimist :)

"It (australia) will develop new technologies and will forge ahead."

Of course it will.. by inventing good stuff and having it made economically in China... and the inventor and his key executives will probably do quite well out of it.

As for creating Aussie jobs ? most unlikely. I do this myself.
I GAVE a quote for a small manufactured value added item a while back.. at the best prices and insufferably low labor rates (mine) I came up with a BEST price of $3.20 per unit for 1000 'things' which I can make.

Of course.. after doing the development for the customer where I charged a much higher rate.. (just 10 pieces) I did not in the slightest expect my quote to actually translate into 'work'..why ? :)

aaah..the harsh world of realekonomik.... I just rang a Sydney company which sources things from China and for the same item he quoted $1.83 now.. I ask you.. if my customer can make the same phone call (and he does quite often) would he not be brain damaged to spend $3200 with me when he can spend $1830 with someone else getting it from China.

Like I said.. the real answer to your question is probably not the one you want to hear.

I sense you don't have much to do with manufacturing eh ? :)

POIROT says:

"I'd like to see a return to smaller communities - country and city."

Well said old son.

While we foxy will never know you highlight a symptom of our life that will change.
Media is privately owned and it is fighting for survival, its market is us on the way to or from work we grab the papers.
In time papers will look less like comic books.
increasingly news is made not reported we are in a feeding frenzy right now,, truth not needed as much as headlines.
While we once heard that every thing that can be invented has been it still is not true.
Future if this country is as great a place to live as it is now it will be great.
Nuclear power is coming, better fuels have no fear war or no war the world is a better place than it was and change should be grabbed with both hands.

I'd go for the community and easier access dreams myself- and these COULD be achieved if the government would make a few new cities with PROPER facilities, entertainment, infrastructure and rent levels, emptying out the capitals somewhat.

In the capitals, if enough people who lived near major roads sold and left, the state could demolish the unused houses and treat the different 'suburbs' as different 'cities' again, with more breathing space and connected by interstate freeways instead of slightly wider suburban streets.
(not to mention less buyers might hopefully bring down property prices to levels people short of millionaires might actually be able to afford.
Heck, hopefully there will be enough room so that we could stop the outward sprawl and possibly get some of our old prime farmland back.

Sadly for much of Sydney (and I imagine many other capitals) it will be massively downhill for next generations, and less breathing space.

We may be looking at large scale problems to be resolved, but the answer lies locally.

While husbands and wives seek divorce and family members wish others dead the problems of world peace will continue. It is a symptom of pride, prejudice and hatred. The private lives of people are in conflict, are not stable or content so the personal war even as the national conflicts will continue.

Acceptance, understanding, forgivness, reconciliation and peace are illusive without ones endeavour to live with divine vision. While families fight among themselves selfisness permiates society. We have established centers for family conflict but it has become an employment industry rather than an answer. lOVE IS THE ANSWER!

Perhaps I do tend to look at life
through rose-coloured glasses.
Although heaven knows I can blow a fuse
like the rest when the right buttons
are pushed. I still believe however that
most people are basically decent and good.
And that in this country, we really should
count our blessings because we're darn lucky!

I'm proud of this country, and of its achievmeents.
We've come a very long way... And we've still got
a long way to go.
Sure we've made mistakes - but that's life.
However, we're still thriving. I live in Melbourne,
and I love it. I love the people, the greenery,
the theatres, the parks, the botanical gardens,
the wide streets, the local communities, the
Dandenong Ranges, the Yarra Valley, and the list
goes on. Our regional libraries are among the
best in the country. Our hospitals are great.
What else can I say? I work, pay taxes, contribute
to the community, look after my two elderly mothers,
my family, and the future for me looks bright.

Perhaps I need a change of attitude, I don't know.
I only know that I wouldn't live any where else.
And if I make the rest of you want to puke, well
then I'm sorry. But that's just me!

I would like to think that my grandchildren will receive the same blessings from God that I have. I would like to think they could marvel and be thankful to their Creator for such a beautiful country, such an abundance of food and good friends. I would like to think my grandchildren will grow up with their parents willing to be faithful to each other in order to provide a stable home life. Ultimately I would hope and pray my grandchildren choose heaven rather than hell.

Dear Foxy,

I'm sick of all the politics as well. I used to have have quite an interest in government, but lately it all seems so much blah blah blah - all of a sudden I feel like my vote is worthless - disenchanted with Kev and Julia and wouldn't vote for Abbott as well - I can't remember feeling like this before. Maybe I'll vote informally and perhaps write a witty limerick for the occasion, who knows

Don't ever feel that you have to defend your basic values - you are one of the most balanced and reasonable people I have come across - more power to ya!

Most of the problems that we experience nowadays are caused by excessive expansion and growth. The whole planet is just becoming too crowded and I would gladly forgo so called "high living standards" for more space, more fresh air, a continued bio diversity, more water, more fish in the sea, and a slower pace because all these things and more are affecting our social cohesiveness, our health and our happiness. Politicians are only the mouthpieces of the electorate and pander to what they think they want to hear before the next election.

It seems that every country in the world is committed to expansion in the pursuit of more money and that new must-have gadget advertised on TV.
The whole world must stop sometime, yet we are continually being exhorted to get bigger and bigger. To what ends in this throw-away society ?

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for your kind words.
Friends of my mother went back to Lithuania
to live after the country got her independence
from the Soviet Union in the 1990s. Well guess
what, they lasted quite a few years but they're
returning back to OZ at the end of this month.
Why? Because they're now approaching pension
age and medicine and pharmaceuticals are so
expensive in Lithuania, and pensions are pathetic.

I don't think many people realize how lucky we
are with Medicare in this country. And the cost
of tablets are neligible compared to other
countries. Pensioners are especially well provided
for, certainly according to people who've lived
else where in the world.

Another thing that these people missed greatly
about Australia was the sense of potential and
openess that so many people enjoy on coming here.
They claim that they didn't quite appreciate what
they had, but now feel privileged that they are
able to return and make a home here once again.

Foxy said;

>I can't help but wonder - what sort of country this
>will be years from now...

Quite a lot different. The high cost of energy and indeed some
shortages will change everything.

> Will we have solved our refugee problem?

Probably, but because the difficulty and cost to get to Indonesia will
have stopped the flow.
> How big should our population be?

Whatever it is it will probably be too big. Five to seven million
will probably be ideal.

> Will we have discovered a cure for cancer and aids?
Maybe, but the cost will probably be higher than governments could afford.

>What about our water shortage problem?
Depending on where our population change ends. If higher no, lower yes.

>Will we have solved the drought problem,
No !

>what about bush-fires?
This country always had bushfires and always will.

> Energy?
This will be our biggest problem. We will change to using natural gas
early in the transition, but gas will deplete fast as we use it.
Just hope we can get geothermal working on a large scale.

> Will we go nuclear?
Probably not as by the time we decide to go nuclear, peak uranium
will be upon us.

> Will we become a Republic?
Maybe, but there will be such monumental changes taking place that it
might seem a waste of time to discuss it.

>So many questions - and I don't expect
>answers to each and every one.

END OF PART ONE

PART TWO

Actually I am somewhat optimistic on the future.
First, all those lost jobs to overseas manufacturing will come home.
Globalisation will be a bad dream fad.
If you want a new table, you won't go to Harvey Normans, you will go
to your local furniture maker at yourshops.
You will ride your bike there or catch the shuttle bus.
You might even walk there.

If you have a job in an industrial area, perhaps manufacturing
electrical goods you will get your local shuttle to the station and get the train there.
If you are a schoolteacher, then you will work at the local school.
At the school, the internet has not worked for a couple of weeks as
the adsl server at the exchange has not been able to get a swap over
modem and probably will have to wait while the technicians repair the
modem. That might take a couple of weeks.
It will be the end of the throwaway electronic goods. They will be too
expensive and hard to get to throw them away.

You have harboured your petrol ration carefully so you can fill up
and visit the grandchildren in Bendigo for Christmas.
Just before you leave you will be taking vegetables from your garden
to help out your son's family as they only have a small backyard
garden.

You will ring your son to let him know you are ready to leave.
You have to book the call as a trunk call because there is a world
wide shortage of exchange parts calls outside Melbourne must be done manually.
Parts have been reserved for government telephone systems.
International calls work OK sometimes but if there is an undersea
cable fault it can take months to get the ship to the site.
Recently your husbands parents died in the UK and he has gone there.

He will be back in 2 months if he can get on a ship.
The airlines went out of business 10 years ago.

Well I am not Nostrdaemus, but how do you like my future plan for you ?

Dear Bazz,

Thanks for your taking the trouble to answer
each of my questions.

And it's an interesting picture that you forsee
for our future.

My picture is somewhat different.
As I've said previously - I predict
a more positive future - with new
technology, forward thinking, and
us finding alternative solutions to
the current problems plaguing us.
I have confidence in our inventiveness
and creativity.

I hope that I'll still be around to see who's
right.

Foxy asks what sort of future for Aust?

I’d like to break it down into three periods:
Short -- around 10 year
Medium -- around 100 years
Long term --around 1000 years

--At around 10 years
Malcolm Turnbull will preside over the new Australian republic, being now in his second five year term. He will have introduced a CPRS and will be favouring renewable energy, but such moves will be motivated mainly by a desire for a cleaner environment & wish to expand the energy base rather than any belief in AGW, which will by this time be largely discredited.
The long serving/suffering leader of the opposition Julia Gillard in an attempt to win some traction in the upcoming election is considering an education revolution.2, offering to subsidize brain enhancement implants for all, which will boost natural intelligence exponential–but fears it will erode Labors base turning all recipients into Liberal voters.
Belly will have seen the error of his old ways and be joined the Liberal Party & will wear a “I Love John Howard” button everyday. Its blue and white colour matching well the colours of his new football team, the Bulldogs ( having ditched the saints!) .
CJ Morgan will have finished the long and winding journey he started so long ago on OLO, has found God, being the new mullah of a local mosque on the Sunshine Coast –total congregation him and his dog (though, his dog must stay outside when he giving his sermon being “haraam”)
Qanda will have published a book called “Blizzards of My Grandchildren” subtitled “the coming Ice Age & how my background in hydrology lead me to see through the AGW scam” .
And, this will be our new national anthem… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI7GWbVV7ps

--At around 100 year
Most of the worlds energy will be supplied from orbiting solar stations.
The Western world will be facing immigration pressures , principally from the middle east, which overpopulated on the basis of on-going oil (now drained or dethroned) and can no longer support its numbers. Mars & Venus will be undergoing terraforming and early colonists will be already moving in .Mobile phones are obsolete, having been replaced by brain enhancements that enable telepathy . Average life span is now 150 years.Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane are following the new trend to build cities of single hive-like structures rather than a conglomeration of buildings ---a huge saving in space, materials and energy. And, this will be what they look like …
http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=10224

--At round 1000 years
The entities that have evolved from humans take the form, for want of a better description, of immortal spirits,which feeding off pure energy and move through the myriad of multiverses, at will. Occasionally, these entities take on bodies, human or animal, to sample different existences. At such times the Horus body is most sought after, though the CJ Morgan body still experiences a brief popularity around 31 October .
And, this is the sound of spirit humans communicating…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjF9D8xDYFg&feature=related

Dear Horus,

Absolutely brilliant!
Loved it!

I can now go to sleep with a smile
on my face!

Easy to be critical - We should be building principles in our children - honesty, justice, a fair day's work for the pay; there are many virtues, but how many parents try to inculcate these virtues into their children

The number and size of ethnically delineated no-go zones will expand (as in France, etc).
The threat of terror will increase but the Islamic connection will be repudiated or not be reported (already here, as in the USA, Europe, etc).
Islamic prayer rooms will be on all university campuses (if they aren’t already) and in an increasing number of work places.
The same secularists who condemn Christian influence in the public sphere will welcome the emergence of Islamic influence (already happening in academia).
Australian taxation law will be Sharia compliant (in process).
Sharia councils will increasingly adjudicate Islamic disputes and their authority will be ratified by the Australian government (as they are by the UK government).
The government will officially endorse the eligibility of Islamic polygamous marriages for welfare purposes (Centrelink already does on a de facto basis).
Federal laws will make public criticism of Islam a hate crime (Victoria already does).
The publicly available histories of Mohammed and Islam will be white-washed so as not to offend (already happening).
Earnest teachers will reinforce this message to little children so that they don’t grow up to be racists like their bigoted parents
The significance of Christian holidays will be played down.
Islamic holidays will assume a higher profile.
Honour killings will rise but they will not be identified as such in the media.
Female genital mutilation will increase but laws against it will not be enforced.
Race-based rapes will increase (already happening here but not as advanced as Europe) but any Islamic connection will not be reported.
Primitive halal slaughtering will increase in authorised abattoirs but also in backyards of no-go zones.
Progressives will demonise anybody who draws attention to any of the above and seek ways to have them prosecuted.
Cronulla-style internal strife will increase, with progressives blaming racism (already happening in UK).
A welfare-dependent Islamic underclass will emerge, with progressives blaming discrimination (already happening in UK).
No official data on any of the above will be made public for fear of inciting racism.
Posts like this will be banned (as they ought to be I hear you cry).

Proxy, this might come as a gigantic shock to you but secularists (going by the actual dictionary definition and most likely majority of such) actually percieve Christianity and Islam in the same context (and most tend to oppose Islam MORE)- so the "the same secularists that oppose Christianity would welcome blah blah" is a flat out lie.

You all ought to worry about what state your society is in now, and what state it has been in for over 100 years.

The Forbidden Truth is that human beings CANNOT run a sane, rational and peaceful benelovent society because human beings are hopelessly morally defective and mentally deranged.

Your socities are demented, based on lies and myths and utterly genocidally destructive.

For the Truth on society and human behaviour, visit : www.Truthmedia.8k.com

Maybe within the next couple of generations, racism and religious bigotry will finally be recognised as forms of mental illness and a cure discovered.

In any case there will be billions more people squabbling over whatever resources are still left and blaming their grandparents as those who knew what had to be done for the planet but deliberately chose not to do it.

rache:"Maybe within the next couple of generations, racism and religious bigotry will finally be recognised as forms of mental illness and a cure discovered."

And maybe the genderist bigotry that is buggering our country far more than either of the other two will also go the way of the dinosaurs. Roll on peak oil: once we're no longer as a nation able to subsidise frivolous personal choices some sanity must prevail.

rache,
The failure to learn from history or the deliberate refusal to recognise observable trends might rather be viewed as symptoms of mental illness.
Is adherence to the utopian ideal of multiculturalism and diversity, without any historical or observable evidence to substantiate the delusion, also a symptom of mental illness?
In fact, the hard evidence refutes the delusion.
Where is the line between mental illness and mere stupidity?

Dear Proxy,

"Religion has actually convinced people
that there's an invisible man - living in the
sky - who watches everything you do, every
minute of every day. And the invisible man
has a special list of ten things he does not want
you to do. And if you do any of these ten things,
he has a special place, full of fire and smoke
and burning and torture and anguish, where he will
send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and
scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time...
But He loves you!"

(George Carlin).

Now tell us again about the
line between mental illness and stupidity again?

Foxy,
<<special place, full of fire and smoke
and burning and torture and anguish, where he will
send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and
scream and cry forever>>

Here is Mohammed on hell and women (from an Islamic web-site):
“I looked into Paradise and I saw that the majority of its people were the poor.
And I looked into Hell and I saw that the majority of its people are women.”
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/21457

Clearly then, from what you are suggesting, Mohammed was mentally ill because nobody who achieved what he did could be called stupid.

Are you also then saying that followers of Islam are mentally ill or that they are merely stupid?

Now that is offensive and probably racist (if Islam was a race!).
Or is it just an unintended consequence of your inability to think rationally?

Dear Proxy,

It was actually your ability to reason
that was being questioned here.

You're the one that is on about the evils
of Islam over and over and over again.
Yet you can't seem to see the faults in
your own beliefs. I was merely trying to
shine the light for you - in the hope
that something would register in your brain.
Obviously I was wasting my time.

You know you're right because you've read
the "truth" in your holy book and you know
in advance, that nothing will budge you from
your belief. The truth of your holy book
is an axiom, not the end product of a process
of reasoning. To you the book is true,
and if the evidence seems to contradict it,
it is the evidence that must be thrown out,
not your holy book.

Frankly, I could care less what you think.
It's only when you come onto my thread and
rave on against another religion -
that I feel it necessary to respond

The difference between mental illness and stupidity in this context is that only a stupid person would keep making the same historical mistakes over and over again and expect a different result.

A mentally ill person wouldn't recognise their own irrational actions as being mistakes at all and would probably end up blaming somebody else for their own failures.

Religion itself probably falls somewhere between these two while intolerance could go either way.

Foxy,

it also comes down to "some invisible guy who had sex with his own mother to father himself and prays to himself because he can't remember why he forsook himself" and that we're all doomed because "some rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat a piece of fruit from a magical tree."

What is really interesting is the way we can envisage the future only in terms of what we know, and - as Proxy demonstrates so admirably - mostly in terms of what worries us.

Thinking back to my youth, about the only thing that I was able to visualize that actually came to pass was the "watch communicator", the device that you carried around with you and that you could use to talk to your friends.

Even then my vision was based on "walkie-talkie" principles. The idea that the telephone - which was at the time made of black bakelite, with brown twisty cables, and connected to a line that you shared with a neighbour - would ever fit into your top pocket, was literally inconceivable.

Ok, space travel has come to pass in pretty much the way we could comprehend back then. But colonizing other planets before civilization collapses upon itself seems as unlikely as ever.

We have knitted ourselves into a zone where introversion rules. Can anyone seriously imagine that today's - or tomorrow's - Australian Government would ever give the go-ahead to another Sydney Opera House? Or that the US space program that took mankind to the moon, would ever get through Congress, if proposed today?

The "environmental impact statements" alone would today strangle it at birth.

In the words of the Irishman leaning on the farm gate "If that's where you want to go, I wouldn't start from here."

No, the future is literally unimaginable, given our present intolerance, paranoia, and fetishist worship of "Health and Safety".

Which is a Good Thing.

Because there will always be a section of the human race that thinks along a different set of lines, and is not confined to what is known, but instead goes ahead and discovers what is not known.

Bless 'em.

That's a very good observation Pericles about basing future predictions on existing 'knowns'.

Sadly I think innovation will be low exclusively in this country as far as anything to the extent of what you mentioned we used to do in yesteryear, simply because the people in charge to make these plans happen seem to actually be themselves lazy, unimaginative and hate anything that requires work, coming up with ideas, management or deep thought.

Even the way every issue is handled shows this- for infrastructural projects only quick-fix solutions to do the bare minimum required- even if immediate problems needing attention anyway are foreseen, and for constitutional change most people can only carbon-copy some other country's laws.

Your post is a breath of fresh air among the toxic fumes of multiculturalism debates and a few bits of jaded generalizations about society.

In basic terms:

(a) Facing a higher cost of living, in which many will have no choice, other than to reside in the family home for longer periods.
(b) Living within their means, ie winding back on travel, winding back on purchasing expensive or middle of the range priced vehicles,forced to innovate and engineer concepts for exports and develop more strategies along those lines, as a result of a mild 'depression' which has commenced in quite a few States and will escalate over the next ten to twenty years if swift action is not taken.
(c) Climate Change: enduring the effects of Climate Change as nothing is addressed
(d) Hospitals: Health issue dilemmas for our Children and Grandchildren relating to the Hospital systems across Australia, if new concepts are not adopted and funding not increased.
(e) Medical: Fewer health field workers ranging from Specialists/Paediatricians, Doctors, Nurses and Health Care Workers if the Uni Students fees not waived or reduced.
(f) Crime: fewer police officers staying in their careers without sufficient funding and wages. A reduction in despatching these Officers overseas would assist in a reduction of crime this century.
(e) Education: change the ruling within many primary schools that children must write up at least 50% of their projects/assignments, at the same time revert to the good old days of focussing on english maths and science primarily. Secondary education; more literature and assignments should be given, based around Books read, more plays and theatre tasks undertaken, to improve comprehension, spelling, draw out expand the imagination in Teenagers, increasing the time spent on learning in enjoyable settings, which in turn may assist in the reduction of time Teenagers spend on the internet during school terms.

Dear Foxy

just a correction to your quote:

Foxy said:

Dear Proxy,

"Religion has actually convinced people
that there's an invisible man - living in the
sky - who watches everything you do, every
minute of every day. And the invisible man
has a special list of ten things he does not want
you to do.

Carlin is incorrect and your post does not make any sense.

It's 2 things God wants us to DO and 8 things to be avoided.

"TO DO"
1/ Observe the Sabbath
2/ Honour parents.

All the rest are "don't"

Contextually, those commands had nothing to do with 'fire and brimstone'

They were a means of expressing involvement in the theocratic covenant of the time.
For a full detailed account of that Covenant, read Deuteronomy (warts and all) start to finish.

Deut 28 'BLESSINGS' for obedience. 'CURSES' for disobedience.

Amazing how this came true for a certain NSW Transport Minister last week. ie..It's about behavior and consequences.

For background, on how to even understand the structure of Deut. you need to examine "Suzerain treaties and Covenant Documents"
http://www.fivesolas.com/suzerain.htm

Please don't comment on the 10 Commandments again until you have read the background :) because without that background, your comments will come from ignorance and make you look... (fill in the blank)

Try "Edgars Track" this weekend. Not too many hills and cross the pristine Dandenong Creek.

Dear AG,

I'm sure that George Carlin would be
flattered or amused by your attempt
to correct his quote. Perhaps he'd
even give you another: "If you can't
dazzle them with brilliance, baffle
them with BS!"

Anyway, re-read my posts and perhaps
you'll be able to grasp the point
that I was trying to make.

Or better still, I strongly recommend
you read Richard Dawkins book, "The
God Delusion," which will put everything
into perspective for you, including
the quote that you're attempting to
correct. You'd like Dawkins. By nature,
he doesn't thrive on confrontation.
He doesn't think that the adversarial format
is well designed to get at the truth.
I'm sure that you'd agree.

And once again, Thank You for your concern
about my need to go for walks et cetera.
I won't offer you similar advice because
I know you probably get enough exercise
pushing your luck and jumping to conclusions.
(smile).

Global warming will not be the problem many expect due to contraction
in the economy. China will be forced to stop commissioning a power station every two weeks.

http://www.energybulletin.net/52810

We will for some years yet buy cars but eventually even electric cars
will no longer be viable due to the manufacturing costs in a contracted
economy.
People will restrict their activities to lower cost interests and
travel will be one of the first industries to reduce to very low levels.
Tourism will be virtually non existent.
Business and government travel will be very much reduced.
Video conferencing will continue, if the internet hangs on but only
the very rich and government will travel by air.
Already airlines are merging or going broke at a fast rate.
There are no alternative fuels for aircraft and even the biofuel
experiments have a problem with low temperatures. The fuel tends to
solidify. Interested in flying in a coal fired 747 ?

As we see already we are in deep trouble with most countries owing
very large amounts of money and many having no hope of repaying the
bonds on maturity plus interest in a zero growth economy.
In these circumstances Australia will be have difficulty finding the
money to electrify our railway system as well as rebuilding the branch
lines that were abandoned some years back. There is no way we will be
able to build truly high speed rail lines as the cost will be extream.

Everything will be local, manufacturing, food production and even
money will probably be local. See the existence of local currencies
such as the Totnes Pound and several others in the UK and the US.

The changes will be profound but on the bright side life may be more
relaxed and certainly more community minded.
How many people do you know in the houses you drive past ?
How many more would you know if you walked past every day ?

Dear Bazz,

Thanks for such a detailed response.

Look at Asia, South America and Africa.
Due to drought, catastrophies, food shortages,
rural communities move to the cities bringing
shanty towns and squalor.

In Australia we enjoy one of the best living
standards anywhere. However we have to be
realistic. The chronic poverty, high birth
rates and stagnating economies in the Asia/Pacific
region makes our country a very attractive destination.
Our government needs to try to help those countries
as much as they can. Good relations are crucial.
Refugee problems have existed for centuries around
the globe, and will continue to do so. Australia needs
to focus on critical refugee needs and also on skilled
migration to maintain its survival. With uncontrolled
migration we're going to be facing the same problems as
Asia, South American and Africa.

Our population is predicted at 50 million by 2050
(compared to 28 million according to our current
growth rate). We don't have the current infrastructures
to cope with that. Australia could build up desalination
plants and pipe lines carrying water to the inland.
And, build new towns populated by migrants who would
have to sign a ten year contract to remain in those
towns. This would necessitate to force industries
to move into those towns to create employment,
otherwise import the industries and the workers from
desirable countries such as Scandinavia, or Central
Europe.
We have to adapt to life or become extinct as other species
before us. The key is - to elect the type of government
that will look after the interests of the people, not only
big business coporations. We have to elect the type of
people who are interested in diverting unprecedented
energy and resources to the real problems facing us,
including poverty, health, energy, growing population,
employment, water resources, the devastation of our natural
environment, and so on. Only then can we begin to contemplate
the type of legacy we will leave for our grandchildren.

BAZZ.. the internet ? :)

check this out:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html

Makes you wonder... of course I will get out the information I need to over the next week or 3 before any dumb El-Presidente tries to stop it all.

After all..HE (Obama)is implicated bigtime in a lot of "bad things"
But in his case, it is a matter of connecting the dots.. not much or any evidence of specific criminality that I know of.

OOOH MY LOOOORRRRD.. Foxy has seen the light :)

"With uncontrolled migration we're going to be facing the same problems as Asia, South American and Africa." (FOXY)

blow me down with a wet lettuce leaf.

Foxy..I didn't know you were the BNP's newest member ? :)

http://www.bnp.org.uk/

No one has mentioned the real problem.

We can not expect to continue to have a higher standard of living than those who make the stuff we buy, & use.

That used to be Japan, & then Taiwan. Both of these countries now have a similar, or higher standard of living than we do. They along with Singapore now have higher pay, & probably better education than we do.

We had better start hoping that the standard of living does a very quick rise in China, & later India. Sooner or later we are going to have to match their productivity. If they remain poor, we are bound to follow them down the low income path.

The folk of Europe are just ahead of us on this slippery dip of wealth due to our business practices, & our greed. We, the west, have now transeferred most of our technology to the third world, & with that kick start, they are now often suppasing us. What do we have left to earn us our high standard of living? For most of Europe it's not a single damn thing, & we're not far behind.

It may not be a pleasant idea, but that's our kids future, unless we lift our game, the minerals won't last for ever. With a dill in the lodge, we may all ready have stuffed our last advantage. It may come quicker than I think.

Foxy,
There will be problems in Asia, but there will be nothing we can
do for them. We will not have the resources for foreign aid and we will
be flat out supporting our own population.
Migration will cease. We will not have the excess energy to build new
houses for a high rate of migration.
I venture to say that immigration will be controlled at the point of a gun.

From about now unemployment will rise and unemployment benifits will
decrease. Our population will not increase after the decent starts.
At present we import a considerable amount of food. I don't know the percentage.
We will be flat out allocating fuel for agriculture.

We will not waste energy pumping water inland, water is heavy and it
takes a lot of electricity to get water over mountain ranges.

For an economy to grow it needs to invest. Up till now we have done
this by borrowing money, using that money to buy equipment, housing
etc etc then with the new income from that investment repay the loan
plus the interest. However to do that extra energy is used.
When we do not have that extra energy we cannot repay the loan and interest.
That is what has now happened in the world economy.
It is why so many countries cannot repay their loans and honour their
national bonds.
We are on the verge of being in that same situation.

Dear AG,

I could be flippant and say:

"Yes, I have seen the light -
and it's shining through
the hole in your head!"

But instead, I'll be polite and
keeping a perfectly serious face, say:
"What a charmer you are!"

Dear Bazz,

We don't need electricity to pump water
over mountain ranges. We can use wind mills
to push the water uphill and gravity takes
it down the other side.

We import food to balance our International
trade. If we want other countries to buy our
produce, we have to buy theirs. We export far
more than we buy. Australia is self-sufficient
in its food production.

Unemployment will rise if the country is over-
populated. There is only so much that we can
sell ourselves and to maintain a larger
population our exports would have to increase.

As for our deficit. The Government tells us
that it will be repaid within 3 years. That may
or may not be true as nobody can predict global
conditions. (especially if the China bubble
bursts). However, we need a bit more faith.
I'm not as glum about things. We've survived all
sorts of things in the past and I trust we'll do
so again.

Dear Foxy,
The paradyne you and I grew up with was the Judeao Christian world view where the individual had rights balanced by responcibilities as the boundries for normal acceptable behaviour eg {private property}. In the 60's We changed to the Humanist world view with rights becoming colective without individual responsibility and no morals as a God concience shut out unexceptible behaviour eg [ the 10 commandments ] and humanists don;t like to feel guilty for their soulish carnal nature. As in Moses day it took 400 years of lost freedom for the decendants of Abraham to cry out to the God of Abraham for help. As the present generation looses all knowledge of the Judeo Christian world view and have a new set of norms or boundries where the state makes the rules freedoms become a thing of the past for the good of society colective. Jesus taught salvation as an individual issue not colective eg {God doesn't have Grandsons, colective, only sons and daughters, individual responcibility. We have thrown the baby out with the bath water as we do not want to take personal responsibility for our actions. Case in point about 30 years ago the ABC held a phone poll on abortion and I asked my little children what they thought and their answer was simple " you shouldn't kill babies". Today we know it is no longer black and white but what ever suits you as our boundries have been broken eg illegal immigration. Socialism is a failure whether it is right wing Nazis or left wing Communism or Green for social justice saving the planet but as the present generations knowledge of God as our father{ provider, healer, protector, teacher, all mighty, Lord, LORD, our banner {rallying point}, sanctifier, our peace, our righteousness, our shepard, our saviour} is lost from their memory bank more and more feeedoms will be lost to the greater good of the colective " socialism" and it doesn't work.

Foxy the greatest gift you can give your grandchildren is a knowledge of the truth remembering a hypocrit is dispised so you have to be a living appicle as they will read your life. Let love be the key to every thing yo do. God Bless
Regards Richie 10

Dear Foxy

While I rarely read Richie10's interminable sermons. I do agree with one point (in spite of his condescending need to instruct you with the bleeding obvious) and that is love is the way to go - and I get the irony that I am not exactly respectful to Richie10, but I am only human and not a saint and there is a limit to my tolerance for proselytising - which I find very disrespectful to you and others.

When we conduct ourselves with love for all life, then we may have a reasonable future for our grandchildren. One doesn't need to have any formal religion to treat others with respect, in fact the comments splattered over the pages of OLO by (aka Boaz) indicate that formal religion is an impediment to respect - in both directions.

I am lucky to have two little cousins who are growing into wonderful people, thanks to the love and care of their parents. If these children are our future, the human race has hope.

I am very happy you have finished reading the God Delusion and am looking forward to reading Dawkins' "The Greatest Show on Earth". In fact, I will book it at my library right now.

Thank the universe for libraries (and librarians).

Dear Severin and Richie,

Thank You so much for your inputs.

I agree with you - love is the greatest gift
we can give. And I will ensure that my
grandchildren will have plenty of it.

I attended a wedding recently and one of
the readings was on, "The Art of Marriage."

I'd like to share it with you:

"Happiness in marriage is not something that
just happens. A good marriage must be created.
In the Art of Marriage: the little things are
the big ones. It is never being too old to hold
hands. It is remembering to say "I love you"
at least once a day. It is never going to sleep
angry. It is at no time taking the other for
granted. It is having a mutual sense of values and
common objectives. It is standing together facing
the world. It is forming a circle of love that gathers
in the whole family. It is doing things for each other,
not in the attitude of duty or sacrifice, but in the
spirit of joy. It is speaking words of appreciation
and demonstrating gratitude in thoughtful ways. It is
cultivating flexibility, patience, understanding and
a sense of humour. It is having the capacity to forgive
and forget. It is giving each other an atmosphere in
which each can grow. It is finding room for the things
of the spirit. It is a common search for the good and
the beautiful. It is establishing a relationship in
which the independence is equal, dependence is mutual
and the obligation is reciprocal. It is not only
marrying the right partner, it is being the right partner."

Foxy

The world is a better place with you in it.

BTW if any of us could manage even a third of the ideals expressed in the "Art of Marriage"... there'd probably no need for OLO.

Cheers

Foxy said;
>We don't need electricity to pump water
>over mountain ranges. We can use wind mills
>to push the water uphill and gravity takes
>it down the other side.

Still, it is energy we will not waste that way, it would be too expensive and too unreliable.

>We import food to balance our International trade.

There won't be any international trade, Globalisation is already
coming to an end. Furniture and steel manufacture has already moved
back to the US because of the increase in shipping costs over the Pacific.
Bunker fuel cost is laying up ships by the thousand.

>As for our deficit. The Government tells us
>that it will be repaid within 3 years.

Even if they do fix the deficit they still have to pay off the debt
and pay the interest. If China crashes it is unlikely that either
will happen. China will slowdown as they cannot keep up
11.9% growth, it is impossible.

>I'm not as glum about things. We've survived all
>sorts of things in the past

Oh we will survive and better than many countries.
I saw two documentaries on BBC TV yesterday, one was on Kenya and
the terrible situation of families that are selling their young
daughters into prostitution for survival money.
The other was Pakistan and the terrible situation of farmers there
who are suicidal because they cannot feed their families.

The numbers are so great and the shortage of energy is so bad there
now that the economy is collapsing. Electricity may be off for days
and only be available for an hour or two a day when it is there.

There is no way that the "West" will be able to help them, their
numbers are just too great. If China does collapse rather than just
have a slowdown then the situation will be really serious.
It seems almost certain that there will be a die off of a couple of
billion people. We did not take notice of those that warned of the
coming fuel shortages and now it is too late.

Dear Bazz,

I'll have to get back to you.
You've given me so much to think
about and I don't want to rush
things at present.

I'm about to go out. However, I'll
post again as soon as I can.
Thanks for your inputs. They
are greatly appreciated.

Dear Severin,

I want to give you a bear-hug.

I've said it before and I'll continue
to say it - You are a very special lady,
who has the gift to bring out the best
in others.
I feel privileged to be sharing not only
cyber-space with you, but this planet!

Foxy,Hitler was a psychopath.What makes you think that this dysfunctional gene pool would end with his death?

There are many who crave to fill the breach of insanity.Zbigniew Brezinski is a case in point.

The lunatics have painted themslves into a corner and now seek war for escape and profit like the last two world wars.The fronts are many since it gives them more options.

The banks loan money to our Govts so our Govts can buy from arms dealers.There is a lot of profit in war.A missile costs over $1 million and $ million's is needed for medicine for injured soldiers.

For some,war is very profitable.

Dear Bazz,

I find that I've got nothing further
to add.

However, Thanks for your input into
this thread.

Dear Arjay,

Ultimately the prospects for peace depend
on the collective action of ordinary people.
This may seem paradoxical at first, for
individuals often feel powerless in the
face of distant governments and mighty arsenals.
However if a modern society goes to war, it is
not just because the leaders have opted for war,
but because the people have implicitly or
explicitly done so also - or at least they have
not opted for peace.

We can only hope and trust that our ultimate
choice will be to enhance the life (and not
destroy it) on the bright
and lovely planet on which all of us share our
adventure.

Foxy and others

The way things are going I doubt that I'll have any and if I do I'll be past much anyway.

My take on Australia's democratic reality is that things change slowly not dramatically, politically. Given that AGW/ACC is real I anticipate we (the species) will adapt to the new environment.
Given children adapt to anything ...what they don't know/experience they won't miss.
I suspect they'll survive maybe life will be different for them than for them than us but that will be in *their* terms of reference.
i.e. Our children find it hard to understand how I was happy enough without TV and computers.
My biggest 'concerns' philosophically are decreasing size of our groups yet the internecine hostilities seem to remain consistent with our 'just out of the trees' antecedents. It seems to me that we still haven't been able to break the technological nexus between our increasing ability to save lives and an equaling advancing ability to destroy.

We still regard our selves as the purpose of nature. When in reality it isn't even aware of our Species existence.
We exist in a narrow band if we go beyond those boundaries by destroying the bubble in which we exist nature will simple absorb the raw materials and continue oblivious that we ever existed.

When one looks at life from the perspective of the infinitesimal to the mind blowingly large our petty internecine squabbles and unbelievable arrogance disappear... Existence is its own Goal
Try this scale meter out....
http://htwins.net/scale/

Dear Examinator,

I'm so glad that you're back posting
again. (Missed your analytical touch
- oh wise one!).
;-)

Welcome back - and I trust we'll hear
more from you in future. Cyber-space
isn't the same without you!

I won't argue with your take on our future.
I'd have to take off my rose-coloured glasses
for that and I don't feel like doing that.
They're my defense when viewing an often
indifferent and callous world. :-)

Whistler will still be arguing for a seperate men's and women's legislature.

well its no wonder some folk have a negative outlook on the future when all the history they choose to work with is from a human world run by a two-stroke engine which has been clunking along for too long on a single cylinder.
kick the dual cylinders in cync and zoooooooooooooom!

My prediction is that the world will stilt demonstrate the same attitudes and conflicts that are expressed on this Forum - after all we are humans.

It's not the views expressed that worry me.
We'll all continue to have a variety of
opinions. My hope however is that we'll
have the right Leadership and innovative
minds that will point us in the right
direction coupled with the right policies
and of course action.

We have Leaders and we have followers.
Let's just hope that we have enough
Leaders with the right attitudes.
Look at what happened in the US recently
with their National Health Scheme propsoal.
Corporations influenced that decision.
The people wanted one thing - Big Business
wanted something else. Big Business won!

cont'd ...

I've recently read an article in a magazine
entitled, "Counting the cost of Washington's
"brain dead" politics." Evan Bayh of the
Los Angeles Times tells us that America's
political cultured has rendered the
country ungovernable. I hope the same does
not happen in this country.

Republicans in particular in the US are
deliberately sabotaging effective government,
knowing voters will take out their anger on
the party in charge. Sound familiar?

To break this "vicious-circle politics"
Americans need the right leadership and
political candidates who can tap into
public disenchantment with the present system.

We have the same sort of problem in this country.
There's no doubt that obstruction of legislation
for party-political advantage has risen dramatically
in recent months. It would be great if the two
parties could come together to solve difficult
problems out of a sense of responsibility - but
I won't hold my breath.

Anyway, I would like to Thank everyone who contributed
to this thread.

And, I shall see you on my next one!

Cheers!

Foxy, at risk of interrupting your closing remarks there is an obvious explanation for the dilemma you pose in parting.
With increasing numbers of women in modern legislatures men have become emboldened to oppose with macho displays of willful obstruction. Men posture in the presence of women, the more so in the presence of firebrands such as Sarah Palin and Julie Bishop. The traditional male ability to resolve issues amongst men has vanished.
The men who established Australia's legislatures never intended they would be anything other than men's legislatures to which women are admitted under male supervision. Women would have to wait until they gained sufficient experience before they could have legislatures of their own. Sufficient is when legislatures grind to a halt through male posturing. Stonewalling would cease if women had their own legislatures. Leadership would be conducted by cabinets comprised of equal numbers of women and men who appoint a male and a female leader of their own.

Dear whistler,

You could be right. However, I believe
that our country's problems are not
problems of structure but of leadership.
Tony Abbott doesn't have it. And now on the
evidence so far, Kevin Rudd's reforms
might fail not because of some structural
breakdown, but because he failed to sell it
to the voters. Of course there is also
extreme partisanship. And as I stated
in my previous post there's no doubt
the obstruction of legislation for party
political advantage has risen dramatically
under Abbott. Perhaps the two parties can come
together to solve difficult problems out
of a sense of responsibility, they'll eventually
respond to something more visceral: fear.
(losing their seats -and/or the election).

Foxy, as can be increasingly relied upon,
has her own <<"brain dead">> view on reality:
<<Republicans in particular in the US are
deliberately sabotaging effective government,
knowing voters will take out their anger on
the party in charge.>>
This while the Democrats have majorities in both Congress and the Senate!
Centrist Democrats, insofar as they exist, are voting against their own party's bills because they know how unpopular they are with the people who will be voting them out of office in November.
But Foxy sees only minority Republicans "sabotaging effective government"!
Most Americans are belatedly smelling something fishy with Mr Hope and Change.
This is demonstrated by his approval index of -18.
Sorry, that was yesterday. Today it's -22.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Obama doesn't care because he and his clique of radicals see this as their once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to irrevocably change the course of American history.
To change it from a free market country of freedom and opportunity
to yet another failed socialist state.
America-haters support him because he is one of them.
Global power-brokers and assorted sabre-rattlers such as Putin, Chavez, Ahmadinejad, et al. have smelt the impending death of America under Obama and are becoming increasingly bellicose.
The only good thing about Obama's election is the growing realisation by Americans that their hardwon freedom is tenuously held.
That it only takes an Obama to destroy that freedom.
Your above quote is one of the more absurd claims you've made Foxy,
and that's saying something.

Dear Proxy,

Allow me to give you a recent quote:

According to the "Los Angeles Times,"
"Last week the Democratic senator for
Indiana announced his retirement from
politics, saying he couldn't take
Washington's "brain dead" hyper-partisanship
any longer. "For some time, I have had a
growing conviction that Congress is not
operating as it should," he declared.
"There is too much narrow ideology. Even
at a time of enormous challenge, the
people's business is not being done."
Few would disagree. The sort of cross-party
"comity" that characterised past congresses
is entirely absent today: senate democrats
couldn't count on EVEN A SINGLE REPUBLICAN
to break ranks and support their healthcare
reform proposal!"

"Here we go again," said Charles Krauthammer
in, "The Washington Post."

"Extreme partisanship is not new to US politics,"
said Peter Beinart in "Time," magazine.
"There's no doubt the OBSTRUCTION OF LEGISLATION
for party-political advantage has risen dramatically
in recent years. Take the filibuster, for instance.
In the early days of the Senate, politicians only
resported to this tactic to block bills about once
a decade. As late as the 1960s, senators filibustered less
than 10% of legislation. Last year, by contrast,
Republican senators blocked a "stunning 80% of MAJOR
LEGISLATION." Republicans in particular are
deliberately sabotaging effective government, knowing
voters will take out their anger on the party in
charge...To break this "vicious-circle politics,"
America needs to tapp into public disenchantment
with the present system..."

I do my research prior to posting.
I also research more than one source.
I quote from experts who know what they are talking
about. I respectfully suggest that you do the same
in future.

By the way,
In any discussion, once you have to resort to
personal attacks - you've lost the argument - and end up
looking foolish or at worst - stupid!

At least you provide comic relief - which I suppose
counts for something! I should allow you to keep it up,
but I feel sorry for you - so I'm trying to give you
some advice in "saving face!" next time!

Foxy,
<<I quote from experts who know what they are talking about.
I respectfully suggest that you do the same in future.>>
You have unwittingly nominated Krauthammer as an expert so I'll quote him:
"the Democrats failed because, thinking the economic emergency would give them the political mandate and legislative window, they tried to impose a left-wing agenda on a center-right country. The people said no, expressing themselves first in spontaneous demonstrations, then in public opinion polls, then in elections -- Virginia, New Jersey and, most emphatically, Massachusetts.
That's not a structural defect. That's a textbook demonstration of popular will expressing itself -- despite the special interests -- through the existing structures. In other words, the system worked."

"The rage at the machine has produced the usual litany of systemic explanations. Special interests are too powerful. The Senate filibuster stymies social progress. A burdensome constitutional order prevents innovation. If only we could be more like China, pines Tom Friedman, waxing poetic about the efficiency of the Chinese authoritarian model, while America flails about under its "two parties ... with their duel-to-the-death paralysis." The better thinkers, bewildered and furious that their president has not gotten his way, have developed a sudden disdain for our inherently incremental constitutional system."
http://townhall.com/columnists/CharlesKrauthammer/2010/02/19/ungovernable__nonsense?page=full&comments=true

Of course, Krauthammer wrote this before Pelosi and Obama managed to underhandedly ram Obamacare through, by making false promises to Stupak, the Democrat pro-life dissident and his 30 Democrat followers.

Nevertheless, Krauthammer is saying the opposite of what your quote from him implies.
You should actually read more Krauthammer, as I do. You might learn something.

As for the moral posturing, I have lost count of the number of times you have called me ignorant, so cut the hypocrisy.

PS I like Krauthammer's dig at your hero Tom Friedman, who wishes that, just for a day, America could adopt the Chinese system so that they could more easily ram through unpopular legislation!

Dear Proxy,

The information that you've given me is
not relevant to what's being discussed.
Do try to keep up.

What is being discussed is current events.
And the information that I quoted, was issued
on 5th March 2010.

As for your being ignorant?

Did I really say you were?

Actually, - other adjectives
come to mind.

See you on another thread,
I'm done with this one.

Cheers.

Foxy,
I'm glad we've finally found something that we can both agree on!
Charles Krauthammer is also one of my favourite "experts who know(s) what (he is) talking about."

Here he is on Obama's arrogance and lawlessness:
"The arrogance and near lawlessness of this administration"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj7Kp5ZJL70

Here he is on Obama the con artist:
"Obama is selling snake oil"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sccH53-3Rw&NR=1

Dear Proxy,

You still awake?

My goodness, give it a rest -
Go to bed, have a good night's
sleep, relax.

This is a discussion that I'm trying to end.
I've said all I wanted to on the subject.

Sleep tight.

Foxy,
<<Republicans in particular in the US are
deliberately sabotaging effective government,
knowing voters will take out their anger on
the party in charge. Sound familiar?>>
(not attributed)
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 26 May 2010 10:57:40 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3655&page=0#88571

<<“Republicans in particular are
deliberately sabotaging effective government, knowing
voters will take out their anger on the party in
charge”>> attributed to Peter Beinart
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 27 May 2010 8:17:40 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3655&page=0#88665

Hmmm…
Sound familiar?
Or sound like plagiarism?

ZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZ

Big fan of Sarah Palin are you Proxy, a few votes and a flatline from President?

I'd again like to Thank everyone
who contributed to this
post.

I'll see you on another thread.

Cheers.

Foxy,
When the going gets tough,
those with no answers get going.

Dear Proxy,

Please wait ...

I'll ignore you next!

cont'd...

Every day I add to the list of people
who can kiss my butt!

Gladly Foxy,
You name the time and the place.
I like a woman with spirit.
And I particularly like women's butts.

cont'd...
Furthermore, I don't expect them to exhibit signs of reason.

Dear Proxy,

In that case -
back off - I'm a Goddess!
(smile).

Wow.... I'm feeling a bit er..warm here... FOXY and PROXY.. what a team :)

Foxy says

"For some time, I have had a
growing conviction that Congress is not
operating as it should," he declared.
"There is too much narrow ideology. Even
at a time of enormous challenge, the
people's business is not being done."

Oh my oh my..I rolled around the floor kacking myself over that one.

"not operating as it should" ?

OH..Oh..if you ONLY knew.. it is so bad.. so evil.. so ideologically, so MONEY and power driven that it boggles the mind.
Just remember one thing.. I cannot speak for the Republican side yet (as evidence, while there I'm sure is not in my hands) but for the 'Democrats' ?

Well.. I'm thinking of writing a novel on it because I cannot even imagine how dire and dark the network is.. which reaches right out from GORE and BLOOD (and their Democrate political allies) into every Victorian home... via the Aussie version of the Democrats (LABOR/GREENS) in the form of....."SMART METERS"....

Trust me on this one.. once you see what is going on.. it will make you want to puke on the Labor and Green logo's.

If we don't act now.. our GRANDCHILDREN will be mindless social zombies, jumping at the smallest command by Bob Brown and Sarah Hanson Young..and Bob Carr and Kevin Dudd and others.. (the whole damn network)

The Solution is not the Coalition.. it is a Coalition brought to heel by either Family First and/or a group of Independants who
a) Know what is going on
b) Have Australia's interest at heart.

The evidence is perfectly clear. A bloke chest thumps for the attention of a woman and the thread goes gaga. Same with parliament, same with congress. The problem is systemic. The future will be governed by independent and interactive women's and men's legislatures in order for democracy to function. Citizens will engage in equitable and productive encounters informed by autonomous authorities. The men who established democratic legislatures never intended they would be anything other than men's legislatures to which women are admitted under supervision. Women would have to wait until they gained sufficient experience before they could have legislatures of their own, effective of when the legislatures grind to halt. The tipping point has arrived. Sufficient is the present. Bring on the referendum.