Many people are now talking about living simpler less consumer driven lives. Often around those discussions the subject of moving out of the cities into country environs crop up.

My husband and I often talk about moving to the country perhaps about an hour out of Canberra in any direction or the South Coast of NSW, Vic Goldfields, Tassie, or along the Great Ocean Rd and toward Mt Gambier. There are many beautiful areas in Australia.

Some opting perhaps for a small scale organic farming or simply working in a lower paid job in a small country town or living on retirement income as my parents did.

It is also possible to downshift in urban areas, swapping material luxuries for a veggie plot, some chickens in the backyard as we have done. It might also mean moving from a high pressure job to one that is more satisfying and allows more time with family, even if it means a drop in income.

Have any OLOers experienced a re-thinking or re-evaluation of their lives? Perhaps you downshifted to the country or stayed put in the city.

Anyone like to share their experiences and the pros and cons of moving vs urban self-sufficiency (as much as one can be totally self-sufficient). Or any other life-changing decisions that fit best with your goals and desires?

Ah Pelican, as you know I think its the greatest thing going!
I certainly would never again live in a city, I would feel
claustrophobic.

But I've learnt that it is a very personal thing, kind of instincitve.
Some people thrive, others hate it, so if you and hubby both agree
that is what you want, you have overcome the first huge hurdle.
For if only one partner has that dream, its commonly a disaster.

I can't for instance, ever see Pericles adjusting to milking the
cow etc :)

There are lots of ways to make a quid in the country, but you need
to think outside the square and be a little enterprising. It also
depends on what you both really enjoy doing, for if you are doing
what you love, then its not work, its passion.

Most of the farming papers have a monthly supplement which discusses
what various ventures people who moved to the country have undertaken,
some with great success. You just need to do your homework thoroughly,
before you shell out $ on any venture and think it through.

Yes, well I have my little plot of some 1700 acres out bush and dream about being there almost every day.

It's alomst a 20k walk to walk the fence line.

Bought it for an absolute song and now it's smack bang in the middle of a mining boom town.

That's where I will be spending some time in the future. Nothing quite like a camp fire in your own huge back yard overlooking the waterhole.

Life's great!

Sounds blissful rehctub.

Yabby
Yes there is much research to be done. At this stage we are doing it in the backyard so to speak but only for ourselves with both working still. Well me doing less work at the moment, but hoping to be privately employed soon. Had more than my full of the public service.

There is a lot of opportunities if one has the mettle to grasp it. Have a few ideas festering. Like you I am not a city girl anymore. Used to love it though, the congestion and overcrowding is too much for me now and the mindless road crush in the mornings

Hi Pelican
My wife and I have been living the rural life for more than twenty years now and I would say that the most important thing is to develop the skills to do as much stuff as you can for your selves is crucial. You need to know how to use tools to both make and fix things otherwise you will find life very expensive.
Plugging into local networks is also a good idea, when we moved into this district I joined the Apex club and I did my time helping the community.
Depending on your location you may find TV and internet is dodgy or slow.
For all of its drawbacks,like if you run out of milk its a long way to the shop(which is why my coffee is black this morning)waking up to the Kookaburras rather than the traffic is worth it.

Pelican

Great topic.

I used to be a city gal myself until 9 years ago, when I purchased a small home in the Yarra Ranges - with little regret. The little regrets being the lack of variety of restaurants just outside my door. But that would be the only one. I don't miss the clubs and bars - having stopped drinking alcohol helped with that. Living well outside the CBD means I always get a seat on the train and rarely have to deal with the grind of gridlock. In fact when I started my search for a sea/tree change (I kept my options open) part of the criteria was that my home would be within walking distance to a rail station.

Working on a casual/part-time basis means I manage on far less. As a result I find the 'consumer culture' meaningless from its destruction of resources to its neglect of our planet.

I will be moving to a regional centre soon to take care of my mother - ironically the area will be far more suburban than my current bushland home. After that I am considering Tasmania as a final destination. Looking towards spending the rest of my life surrounded by the rumbles of koalas, shrieks of cockatoos, the melodies of magpies and rosellas, to lie in the grass and watch echidnas snuffle through the leaf litter.

A lot to look forward to.

May I recommend the high Tablelands inland from Cairns for a great tree change - you can have a rainforest tree change such as my wife and I in Kuranda, or a volcanic soil tree change further south west, great weather, reliable rainfall, close to the City of Cairns for all your needs and the Cairns international airport and JCUniversity, yet out of the mad rush. You will be amazed what you can do from home by broadband, or you can rent a little shop in any of the many towns (I have the Hidden Words Bookshop in Kuranda Village - non-fiction for thoughtful readers). Live cheaply on the local produce and breath the fresh air. Sure beats the clutter of the big cities.
Graham Nicholson

Iain
Some great advice, thank you. Your rural life sounds idyllic. I must admit to being only very basic in my handyman skills but improving and I can read instructions well. :) My husband is not too bad with small building projects, I am more useful in the garden and with animals. Always willing to learn to be more self-sufficient. Making new friends will require some effort, one small town we have our eye on appears to be very community minded as we will aspire to be, and that will go some way I think in the settling process.

Severin
Your lovely Yarra Valley home will be difficult to leave but you may find new adventures waiting for you in the regional centre. Your mum is very lucky to have you. We are hoping to make our new home (wherever it will be) environmentally friendly with solar, rainwater tanks and the like. I too am weary of the rat race mentality and material superficiality and there is little happiness or fulfillment to be found there.

May see you in Tassie one day. :)

When I was a young fellow, [mid 20s] I saw a joke.

This personal officer was telling a young pimply faced youth, "John, you'll like our retirement plan". "We retire you from age 30, to 40, then you come back, & work 'till you die".

This made sense to me, so at 32 I chucked the big job, climbed onto my yacht, & spent 14 years odd jobbing around the Pacific islands, & the Barrier Reef tourist industry. It was a real sea change.

I never did get a big job again, I always seemed to get jobs running little companies who were actually banrupt, but the accounting was usually so chaotic, no one really knew.

I'm lucky in that I don't feel stress, so running a company that's probably broke is not a problem. In fact it's rather fun, & it feels so good if you can save them, I preferred it.

For those who want a tree change, try this advice to a sailor quitting the sea.

Put an anchor over your sholder, & in eastern Oz, start walking west. Don't stop when someone asks what the anchor is for.

When someone asks "what's that thing over your sholder, you know you are far enough from the sea. Settle there. Should be a good spot for that tree change as well.

Hello, did somebody call?

>>I can't for instance, ever see Pericles adjusting to milking the cow etc :)<<

Ah, there you are Yabby. Hi.

You have nailed that one for sure and certain, my friend.

It was great when I was a kid - we're talking eight-to-twelve here - when my brother and I would roam around the countryside every day we weren't at school. There were a couple of farms nearby, so I was very familiar with milking cows - we used to often watch the farm-hand, as he attached those four tubes to the udders and switched on the machine. I wonder, do they still use those old-fangled methods today?

But spend my life there? Ain't gonna happen.

A very good friend of mine did the tree-change, a dozen years or more back. The whole bit. Gave up a job in PR that she was remarkably good at, and started over in a converted railway carriage, living off the land and having babies.

She was in hog-heaven, as far as I could tell. But there was less and less in our ever-more-infrequent emails that either of us could relate to. I'd be very interested to know if it still holds the same attraction as it did back then. Because unless you are extraordinarily careful, there's no way back.

And for me, there is so much about city-living that I would miss. Like crazy.

In fact, if I ever move from this one, it will be to another - perhaps even bigger - city.

Would that make it a "concrete change"?

Pericles, I thought I had you about right. It must be something
to do with our genes/environment that makes us whom we are, like
deep instinct. I lived in cities, my mom dragged me to the opera,
to the ballet, to the art galleries, I hated the lot! But give
me the outdoors, with lots of plants, animals and space, a workshop
with a welder and a few other gizmos, the joy of never having to
wear a shirt and tie again, I would never go back.

That does not mean that I rough it, or sacrifice various creature
comforts, or am not in touch with the rest of the world. In that
sense, the internet has changed alot.

I still go to the city when I need to for some reason. But I stay
for ever shorter periods of time and driving out of it and back
into the wide open spaces feels liberating every time.

So I guess we just need to figure out what drives us personally
and then follow our passions.

As to your question about milking cows, there are no dairies
just around here, but really modern dairies do now exist, which
are totally automated. The cows walk in when they feel like it
and are milked whilst they chomp on a ration that is in balance
with their milk production.

Na-a-a-a-a-ah, you're kidding, right?

>>The cows walk in when they feel like it and are milked whilst they chomp on a ration that is in balance with their milk production.<<

Just trying to pull a townie's leg, aren'tya?

They wouldn't be able to hold the tubes with their little hoofy things, would they?

Derrr.

GR
A bookshop in a country area - you must be a very lucky man indeed. The tablelands are lovely. I remember a trip on the Kuranda rail as a kid, some memorable photos in the photo album when my brother and I were knee high.

C'mon Pericles I will get you out milking those cows or goats yet. The important thing is to know ourselves well enough to know what makes us happy. There are things I still love about cities. I loved living in Vienna for a short time and have enjoyed short stints in Adelaide and Sydney. Would have loved to live in London for a bit too, but that never happened.

We have been watching Gourmet Farmer on SBS and his tree change is what we are aiming for (probably more me than my better half). The idea of going out finding food is attractive to me too whether it be foraging in woods or in the ocean. The English love their cockles straight off the beaches.

Hasbeen
A big job is only a status symbol - your life sounds much more interesting.

The best advice I have had from a friend is that the reality may not be as warm and fuzzy as the ideal. It does mean some hard work and extra effort. I know people who moved down to the Sth Coast of NSW and came back after a two years because of lack of medical services and difficulty in finding a niche and friends. Others have done so without as much trouble. We are all different

Nope Pericles, no kidding, its the latest in dairy technology.
The first ones I heard about were installed in Victoria ( I know
as I subscribe to their Weekly Times farming paper amongst many
others).

The thing is, cows don't feel really comfortable with full udders
so milking is a relief for them. The grain etc provided is also
their favourite food. Next you have huge labour savings, as
people don't really like getting up at 3am every day etc.

Its European technology.

But of course sitting down milking Daisy the cow with a bucket
and then squirting the cat as she walks past is fun too :)

I watched Gourment Farmer too Pelican and I loved it.

Pelican, I can agree with the fact that the retirement move can be less than good.

A mate of mine was a real estate in the little resort town of Burrum Heads.

He told me that he regularly sold many of the same homes about every 3 years. People who had holidayed there quite a few times, would buy in town. After a while the 50Km trip to see a doctor, dentist ect, & the big fortnightly shop, done to keep petrol costs down, got them down.

Many, mothers particularly, missed family.

People who easily found friends while in holiday accommodation, found it harder as a resident.

About 60% sold up, & went "home" after about 3 years.

Wow. So it is

>>Pericles, no kidding, its the latest in dairy technology<<

"When the cow elects to enter the milking unit (due to highly palatable feed that she finds in the milking box), a cow ID sensor reads an identification tag on the cow and passes the cow ID to the control system. If the cow has been milked too recently, the automatic gate system sends the cow out the unit. If the cow may be milked, automatic teat cleaning, milking cup application, milking, and teatdipping takes place. As an incentive to attend the milking unit, concentrated feedstuffs needs to be fed to the cow in the milking unit." - Wikipedia

I'm racking my brains to think of an application for people. I'll keep you posted.

>>C'mon Pericles I will get you out milking those cows or goats yet.<<

Not now I know about the milking machines you won't, pelican.

At least, not until I have lived for a while in (order of preference) New York, Paris (again), Berlin (again), London (again), San Francisco, Rio de Janiero... and a few more besides.

Since I'm unlikely to get through the whole list before I pop my clogs, I'll have to make do with the occasional visit to the countryside and the seaside. Both of which, I can assure you, I enjoy very much indeed.

I just couldn't live there.

*Many, mothers particularly, missed family.*

Hasbeen, you hit the nail on the head with that one.
Once menopause and grandmommy hormones kick in, many
women focus on their grandkids and want to be close by
to "help" them. I've seen plenty move and sell up
for that very reason. The blokes then commonly have
to decide wether to tag along or not.

50km in the country is not really very far, its like
half an hour. Many take longer to get to work in
their city jobs.

Pericles, if I may ask, what is it about city life
and the cities you mention, that you are chasing?

I lived in Paris for a couple of years in the early
70s. It was great fun having car races around the
Arc de Triomphe at 4 am after a night out, lots of
great memories, but every 2 weeks I needed to get out
of the place for a while.

The thing is, where I live, I hear nothing but birds
tweeting when I wake up. The stars shine brightly,
nearly every night. I don't need to lock up anything
really, nothing has ever been stolen in all these years.

In the city they all seem terrified of each other, worried
if they will be robbed, or mugged, or assaulted in some way.

Half the time they can't even park their cars without paying.
Fair enough, many love it, but from my perspective it beats
me why.

Not sure I understand the "chasing" part, Yabby.

>>Pericles, if I may ask, what is it about city life and the cities you mention, that you are chasing?<<

I just get very easily bored outside cities, whereas I never ever get bored in one.

>>The thing is, where I live, I hear nothing but birds tweeting when I wake up<<

That would quickly drive me to drink. What is it about silence that you find so attractive? I find the constant background hum of a city, interspersed with the occasional siren, extremely reassuring.

>>The stars shine brightly, nearly every night.<<

There are just so many minutes that I can stare at the stars without thinking "there must be more to life than this"

>>I don't need to lock up anything really, nothing has ever been stolen in all these years.<<

I've lived most of my life in cities. I have never been burgled.

Once when I lived in London in the early seventies I had the radio stolen from my car. Fortunately the insurance company paid - and for a brand new soft top. Since then, I've never locked my car. And only once has anything been nicked - and that was just the loose change in the ashtray.

>>In the city they all seem terrified of each other, worried if they will be robbed, or mugged, or assaulted in some way.<<

"They", Yabby? Who are "they"?

I can honestly say that I have never felt uncomfortable walking around cities. But hey, I might just have been lucky, all these years. One of my favourite pubs, when I was in London, was the Blind Beggar in Whitechapel. Never felt threatened. Not once.

>>Half the time they can't even park their cars without paying.<<

Use public transport - which in most cities is phenomenally cheap and easy to use - and you won't have to worry.

Or park "inventively", as the natives tend to. Especially in Paris and Berlin...

Your turn.

What is so attractive about living in the country? Apart from the tweeting birds and the sparkling stars, that is...

*I find the constant background hum of a city, interspersed with the occasional siren, extremely reassuring.*

Hmmm. Reassuring of what? I too have a low threshhold of boredom,
but I've learnt the ying and yang thinggy, learnt to switch off,
relax etc. The beauty of just birds tweeting is in fact very
relaxing!

* "They", Yabby? Who are "they"?*

People who live in cities, Pericles. You might be an exception,
but just about all those whom I know, lock their cars, lock their
houses or apartments, lock themselves in, fearing other people.
They have done experiments on this. Fall over in NY and nobody
cares, people don't want to get involved. Fall over in a country
town and everyone rushes to help.

*Use public transport -
Or park "inventively", as the natives tend to.*

Doesen't work for me, as I am nearly always moving some kind of
goods from one place to another. For that I need wheels. At to
the latter, yup, it worked in Paris :) Everyone leaves their cars
out of gear, just the handbrake on. So you push the front car forwards, the back car backwards, hey presto you have parking :)
Mind you, I never did see a car in Paris without dents. Really one
should weld a bit of railway iron front and back as bumpers.

*What is so attractive about living in the country?*

Well firstly
I find nature far more beautiful then I find concrete. It also
comes down to what I call the "Chinese effect", which has to do
with brain function and wiring. The first time you see a Chinaman,
or any other race, they tend to all look the same. As you get to
know them, your neural wiring actually changes. Soon you will see
every little detail, etc. Its the same with nature. People from
cities come out to the country, they see nothing or little. But
there are thousands of things happening, species living there,
interacting with nature, which are fascinating

Fair enough Yabby. There's no way we will ever convince the other, but it is interesting nevertheless to delve into the reasons.

>> You might be an exception, but just about all those whom I know, lock their cars, lock their houses or apartments, lock themselves in, fearing other people.<<

All that says to me is that these folk would be far better off living in the country. It begs the question, in fact, why anyone would force themselves to live in this manner, when there are - clearly - alternatives.

Incidentally, I don't believe that I am in any way an exception. But that may be just because I tend to mix with others who love city life.

>>Mind you, I never did see a car in Paris without dents. Really one should weld a bit of railway iron front and back as bumpers<<

They have actually taken the opposite tack - when I was there last year I saw many that had wrapped foam rubber, or other spongy stuff, around the bumpers. I think I may have a photo or two of cars parked with less than 5cm front and back. And not a parking ticket in sight.

As for the dents (gives Gallic shrug) who cares, it's only a car...

>>People from cities come out to the country, they see nothing or little. But there are thousands of things happening, species living there, interacting with nature, which are fascinating<<

Oddly enough, that's what I find most fascinating about the city, except the different "species" tend to interact with each other, rather than "nature".

*There's no way we will ever convince the other*

Pericles absolutaly, but this is more about understanding
the perspectives of another person and how they see the
world and why.

One of the many reasons I enjoy country life, is the many
challenges that agriculture as we know it presents. Robert
Holmes a Court tried it, he found it easier to make millions
in the city.

The so called Fertile Cresent is little more then rocks in
alot of areas these days. The interesting thing is that
every scientist or expert you talk to in the field, tends
to only see things from their narrow perspective of disease
or whatever they are studying, rather then look at the
big picture. I fiddle with ways of doing things sustainably,
but without going to the extremes of organics and other dreamer
ideas which don't suit broadscale farming.

Next I've always had a great affinity with all sorts of species,
already as a young kid. It was either a pet squirrel, or rabbits,
chickens or something. That continues, only now its wild parrots
flying around here or the odd echidna that walks past the back
door. They are far more similar to us in alot of ways, then
we give them credit for, but its only alot of observation over
time which reveals all that.

If they broke out in fluent English, you too might be interested :)

Not necessarily, Yabby.

>>If they broke out in fluent English, you too might be interested :)<<

Being wild parrots, they'd probably only be interested in getting on talk-back radio.

Depending on what it is that has made them wild, of course.

Hehe Pericles, a while back I was watching three parrots just
outside my breakfast window, eating some melon seeds. There were
a couple of males and a female, both trying to chat her up,
doing little dances with one wing down, trying to impress her.

The whole thing actually reminded me of the fellows down at the
pub, trying to impress some "bird" to chat her up. All very
similar really :)

Fascinating thread. My partner and I are pretty classic 'downshifters', both of us having retired from our former professions 10 years ago and moving from the city to the little country town in Southern Queensland where we now live. We were able to buy our small acreage and the business that now pays the bills with funds derived from selling up and superannuation payouts.

Neither of us would go back for quids. We each work 2-3 days a week in our business, which leaves plenty of time for playing in the garden, fishing, relaxing, bushwalking, spending time with kids and grandkids and all that stuff which is ultimately far more fulfilling than working 60-80 hours a week. We don't owe anybody a cent and have enough tucked away to fully retire when we feel like moving on from here. Like some others have said, Tasmania sounds like an attractive final destination - but not until my youngest leaves high school.

The only negatives for me about living in the bush are similar to those identified by others - restricted availability of medical services, no public transport, few choices in restaurants etc. One of the few things about city life that I miss is going to the movies - DVDs don't quite have the same atmosphere.

I enjoy visiting the city, but after a day or two I can't wait to go bush again - too noisy, everybody seems unfriendly and in a rush, too many crowds and too much aggro. Unlike some commenters, I can't recall the last time I was bored - either in the city or the country. There's always far too much happening for boredom to be a possibility for me, indeed I think that boredom's more of an attitude than a state of mind.

[cont]

[cont]

Hasbeen - I loved the 'anchor' yarn. Yabby - your parrots remind me of an occasion a while back when a mob of sulphur-crested cockatoos congregated in a tree in our yard. They were all screeching and sqwawking away as cockies do, except for one who had obviously made a literal 'tree change'. In amongst all the SCRAAARKs there was a lone and plaintive "Hello Cocky" to be heard... clearly an escapee from mundane domestication :)

CJ
The feeling I get from your post and previous ones on OLO is that you have the ideal life. The best of both worlds - close enough to the big smoke for the odd visit and the country life for the everyday.

There is certainly something to the vibrancy of the cities, but I find it easy to find things to do no matter where I live.

I remember my parents moving us to a small town - literally a one horse, one policeman and one pub with a small shop town. Dad had to look after a small airport site while the usual fellow was on a leave for a few weeks. We moved down from the city and loved our adventure in the bush.

We met the oddest and most eccentric people, but there was a real camerarderie in the town. There was no TV and no school, pictures was an old reel type projector in the local hall on a Friday night with fold up chairs. Christmas Day was spent with a fresh whole pig and salads at the policeman's house with all the people from the neighboring properties as well.

If you can find your piece of paradise wherever it might be, and find work or a suitable business at the same time to complement that lifestyle I think it can work well, especially if your priorities aren't material ones.

*One of the few things about city life that I miss is going to the movies - DVDs don't quite have the same atmosphere.*

CJ, despite your green credentials, have you ever checked out one
of those LED widescreens? LEDs are a bit more expensive, but
they have a 5 star power rating.

I watched part of a documentary ther other night on National
Geographic, The Last Eden, I think it was called. Its the
last place on earth where hippos and elephants still swim in
the ocean, the rainforest goes right down to the water. They
showed some red river hogs, which I had never seen before, the
colours were just amazing. Far more beautiful then anything
man has ever created, that natural scenery.

I have a flock of pink and grey galahs here, their trapeze acts
on the tv antenna would put any circuis performer to shame.
They tend to dive bomb the lambs when they drink from the water
trough, then steal their oats. However there is now a gamechanger
as the wild cat living up amongst the sheds has figured out that
dinner is simple, if it waits under the grain feeder. So the
story goes on, its like days of our lives of the animal world.