I saw on telly today, where they were comparing pensions in different countries. They said what the rate is in Australia, and I thought thats nearly double what the dole is. Funny how we all think that pensioners are doing it tough, but have little or no sympathy for those who cannot find suitable paid work. We justify our dislike of the less fortunate by blaming them for their own predicament, as a small percentage are not genuine (though even they might have a fair reason for being so).

As a gardener, I have experienced less than ethical behaviour from one or two pensioners playing along with the image of the poor old pensioner. I'll do a freeby or cheapy just the once, and then simply not return or answer calls as they evidently cannot afford the services of a gardener. Typically, they'll wait a few weeks and pretend nothing's happened, and then "when can the gardening be done?".

I think even the most frugal and sensible pensioner would struggle to make ends meet on the dole, its basically not possible to live in a city on the dole and not be involved in some criminality to support ones' self. Is it fair to have high expectations of people who try to exist on $220 per week? How much of their $220 should they be expected to waste on silly programs run to benefit job agencies (but not jobseekers)? After so many knock-backs, and being the plaything of the parasitic job agencies (who dont ever actually have any jobs),
why are we so judgemental about the unemployed?

by the time they pay their rent, transport, rates taxes etc. most average working families live on not much more or even less than the pension.

PTB maybe I am a Bogan myself.
Not sure what you think one is but my view is just a plain living happy bloke without pretensions.
Pensioners do not get enough.
Some unemployed get more not to work than they would working in some jobs.
And believe me I understand some who are out of work suffer.
One day we will develop a better way to help the unemployed.
ALP voter unionist till death, but we need reform, who thinks unemployment is forever?
I intend, all being ok, to work past pension age, and self fund after that as long as I can.
Welfare should go to the needy not greedy.

Perhaps there should be a special fund set up for the unemployed and those of you 'the bleeding heart brigade' can contribute to the fund, say and extra 10 cents in the dollar tax, or even forego your super.

Put it all in the fund, let them live a better life while you continue to work hard, for less and you can then feel all warm and fuzzy knowing you are doing your little bit to help.

Perfect solution. Those who give a s-hit can help, those who don't can continue on thier way.

I note with intertest that Mr DuD is wanting to take away the work from many students by doing away with the 2 hour shift. They to can become 'unemployed', yet, the simple solution would be to only allow a 2 hour shift to 'school students', no exception!

But hey, that's just to simple, isn't it!

Finnaly, on pensioners.

Many of these faught in wars, held two or three jobs, made huge sacrifices, all so you can live in a peacfull country.

Boy they must feel betrayed by you lot.

I am glad I don't share your ground on this matter.

Dole versus Pension?. What are we attacking next, disability versus war widows?. How about we start asking questions about government 'entitlements' and life time benefits?. When's the last time a politician made a vegemite sandwich to take to work?.

Rechtub get your mind together.
pat the Bogan was not right.
you are even further away from truth
how dare you ever use the name of dead soldiers to put your red neck points across.
We do put funds away to pay social security, always have.
A great number of our past generations would think much less of you for your thoughts.
my post said we can and will do better in welfare yours as usual blindly refused to see true hardship true need.
is it personal greed that drives you so often to defame All on welfare?
Welfare is a problem, in time properly managed superannuation may help with future pensioners but kicking anyone based on blind bias is not part of the solution rechtub.
To see some one who is out of touch look in to your mirror

Belly,
I have just joined the union so I can do something about the unfairness dished out to people by Labor. I can't see any other way fighting those useless, selfish parasites.

Don't worry about Mr Unemployed, Miss Single Mum, Mr and Mrs Pensioner, get the real bludgers off Government Welfare Mr Banks, Mr Farmer, Mr Insurance Company, Mr and Mrs Shareholder, Mr Mining, Mr Retailer, Mr and Mrs Chief Exec and don't forget the backbone of the nation, the king of rip offs, the number one tax dodger, Mr Small Business! The list goes on.

Paul1405,
If you want to know where your money goes then check out the Public Service & all it's benefit schemes for the bureaucrats who do nothing but complicate decent peoples' lives.

Why are we comparing pensioners to the unemployed at all. Surely each group requires individual assessment and attention.

Pitting one disadvantaged group against the other serves no purpose for policy makers and it just ends up in the usual competitive us and them scenario.

It is unfair that people who are trying to find work in this country are so badly maligned, many of them have disabilities but fall through the cracks of the 'criteria'. Most want to work but have to work around their particular medical condition etc.

For the small minority who do bludge off the system we should not judge all people by the lowest common denominator.

There are many who, because of greed or laziness, cheat the system in various ways via tax, anti-competitive business practices, collusion, price fixing, exploitation of labour, public service sections who are completely overstaffed with nothing to do (while other areas are poorly resourced usually at the doing end).

We can all name a long list of who we think the 'bludgers ' in society are. It is typical of the wedge politics or the politics of envy used in this country.

Pat many pensioners may try and pull a 'fast one' to get their gardens done for cheap, but they are probably desperate for help given they may not be able to cope physically with the demands. You may be able to put them onto a home help service in your state - I know there are some that provide either free or very cheap rates for cleaning, gardening and home repairs.

It is unfair that people who are trying to find work in this country are so badly maligned, many of them have disabilities but fall through the cracks of the 'criteria'.
Pelican,
Almost the whole of the Public Service falls into the category of unemployable so, how come they don't fall through the cracks of the criteria ?

I'll take that as a comment individual.

In this country of ours thee are a few 'Sacred Cows' that no one is allowed criticise, such as:

Old Aged Pensioner The old bloke standing on the corner with a bag of boiled lollies in his hand trying to entice 5 year olds into the bushes, still wetting his pance.

War Window The old tart who was busy on her back with Yank soldiers during WW2 while their men were dieing in New Guina.

Defence Personnel The highly paid bloke busy killing the innocent in some God forsaken corner of some dung heap some where.

Farmer Big profit corperation who wants every cent it can grab, give nothing back, and see themself as some special case in society.

But fair game are.

The unemployed. the once hard working battler who is now a victim of the system.

Public Servents. Those hard working underpaid servents of the people.

Lebanese Our poor displaced brethren who have taken us into their hearts.

Pelican,
I understood that you were remarking on those who are a burden on the rest of us because of being unwilling to pull their weight & exploit the situation hence my remark. I accept that there are people who need our help but I''ll be damned if I do things for lazy, opportunistic parasites.

Understood your intent individual. Just chose to ignore the broad-brush comments about public servants. There are some shirkers and dead wood in the PS and the PS is always an easy target. To state that the whole public service is a burden is ridiculous. Tell that to the next police officer or nurse who are there helping you when you need assistance.

You obviously misunderstood my post. I am saying that most unemployed people are looking for work, only the minority are 'bludging' off the system. And many of them are disabled that want to work if someone would give them a chance. Despite the lip service, most employers see a disability as a potential problem.

Many are also dealing with illness and trying to work but don't meet the disability criteria. One woman was forced by Centrelink to continue to look for work while still in the middle of a chemo course.

Do you think Australia would be better off with more homeless and an increased crime rate if we eradicated unemployment benefits altogether. I should add in case you were wondering I have never been of unemployment benefits but am glad it is there should any of us find ourselves in a bit of bad luck one day.

personally I believe that the atrocious state of unfair economic distribution stems from the insidious tax system. If we had a flat tax than no-one apart of course from the truly unfortunate, would have any excuse/reason not to have a reasonable pension. How many pay income tax for 45 years plus a list of other taxes & at their retirement the get a measly pension. Big business only pays a fraction of what blue collar contributes. You work, you go on a pension and that's it. what's so complicated about that ? The complication arises from heavily subsidised Super in the Public Service and unaffordable Super for the blue collar brigade. In a 20 cent flat tax all your needs & Services are amply covered. just make everyone pay the same.

Rechtub cracks me up Belly with his tunnel visioned its black or white, no grey in between for people working on welfare. YES! Working on welfare. Times changed AFTER Centrelink brought in new regulations a couple of years ago? stating that people MUST work a minimum of 15 or 25 hours per week in order to receive assistance. I informed you of this Rechtub in another thread regarding a similar subject.

In addition to working the 15 or 25 hours per week, people [many mothers or fathers who put their young ones into day care in order to receive some income to feed and clothe their young ones] must report every fortnight to Centrelink and buggerise around thereafter with an employment agency to be pressured into more and more hours, until eventually they land a permanent part time or full time position.

How disgraceful for all of the genuine lower income parents doing it very hard on their own with a baby and children, on one 'NON-PUBLIC SERVICE' lower income, say under $30,000?

One mother I know had a stroke, is permanently disabled on one side of her body, raises three children on her own, however MUST work 25 hours per week for a disability payment which is minimal, raise and pay for her three children. No support from any ex-husband.

There is no such thing as a 'dole bludger' nowadays Rechtub: any person receiving Centrelink assistance must be working within a short period of time, including people with diseases, dying of cancer, and disabled. I strongly disagree with the legislation regarding ill people required to work for assistance. How COLD and heartless!! Many Australians have paid taxes for most of their lives and are struck down with illnesses not their fault AND performed voluntary work over many years, assisting the communities you and I share.

Best log onto the Centrelink website and brush up on their updated legislation.

we are unique
I was unaware of these changes, however, being a hard working, self motorvated person, I don't have much idea on the situation, however, I will go out and celebrate now thanks to your information.

Furthermore, I don't class people with illness (genuine that is) or disabillities, as unemployed. Get that straight.

However, when I see a person not working, as they are a carer for thier partner because they may have a problem were one leg may play up, or a sore back, you're kidding.

I broke my back in the late 90's, I don't need a carer, just a strong will and determination.

Loosers will always be loosers. We simply need to weed out those who fleece the system, but, as always, the government can't get anything right, can they!

And what about the loosers that are always at the pokies or the pub, or both. I see it every day.

I think working for the dole is a great idea, we just need to find a way to exempt the genuine needy.

Another thing you forget to mention is 'family assistance'. Low income earners, with families get paid well FOR NOTHING! Many of them are dead-beats populating our nation with more dead-beats.

Rent assistance, healthcare cards, discounted movies. The list goes on.

As I have always said, if you can't afford kids, don't have them.

One day common sence may prevail and the tax payer can stop paying for other peoples kids. Then they, the tax payer will be able to enjoy a decent retirement after paying their lifetime of taxes, as oppossed to the present system whereby they have to prop up those who over extend themselves and forego a decent, honnorable retirement.

Just remember, the cookie jar is running on empty and there is less and less going in each generation.

How COLD and heartless!!
we are unique,
Yes indeed & this is happening whilst the whole show is choreographed by a government & bureaucrats who constantly tell that they are for the people. Indeed, the original doctrine of this organisation was based upon ensuring for better conditions for ordinary working people. By my observations the term ordinary appears to relate to half-baked academics & bureaucrats & recipients of Government grants. They are very well off in comparison to people who work. All I can suggest is for the ALP to return to it's original purpose & the country will prosper. Keep perpetuating the Whitlam fiasko & the unemployed & pensioners will always cop subclass treatment.

I am very sorry about your back Rechtub and admire your motivation determination and selflessness to continue in your business and thrive for family and yourself.

Pokies Taverns and Hotels; couldnt agree more, we'll have to agree to disagree on families receiving benefits who are lower income earners.

A couple of hundred dollars a fortnight would not purchase half a grocery for most families of four.

In fact, over 20 years, there exists a strong magnetism for me to fight for lower income earners' rights and wages. Something I am now going to follow up if a Union will take me on board in a voluntary capacity.

Thousands of different circumstances for different people the government and/or employers disregard and turn away.

Apologies Rechtub, typo, should read 'grocery list for families of four'.

Perhaps as both yourself and Individual point out, there could be improved ways in identifying those people who are definitely needing assistance and those who do not.

In summary it is only the lower income earners with families who receive some assistance, that I dispute with you regarding this thread

Talking of pensioners, they're not all badly off, you know:

http://www.news.com.au/national/lying-mp-karyn-paluzzano-hangs-on-to-19m-pension/story-e6frfkvr-1225864241778

I wonder if she will be able to draw the dole, when she gets out of prison?

Talking of pensioners, they're not all badly off, you know:
--

notice how article starts talking to "her pension" and then slides into the correct words of Super, though not saying UNFUNDED Super.

Not only does she only put in about 14% of what she stands to get back but remember, like Capt Smirk himself the money was taken FROM real pensioners to put in the Pig Fund [aka Future Fund] for these rorters.

in fact I did a UTube at the time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gLcmbhII-o