David Penington, a senior fellow at Melbourne's Grattan Institute who initially backed the deal Kevin Rudd struck with the states, said yesterday he was "appalled at the lack of any agreement on governance that differs from the status quo", and had little faith any real change would be forthcoming from the reforms.

He also deplored the fact there was no commitment to the key issue of "a vastly better interface" between the hospital sector and primary care, or aged care and mental health - "all issues of critical importance for the longer term".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/former-ally-david-penington-savages-kevin-rudds-status-quo-health-reforms/story-e6frgczf-1225859644876

Given the collapse of just about every policy Labor has tried to implement, Rudd was desperate for a win. The health reform was a shining beacon that could provide some evidence that Labor could make changes in the areas that people cared about.

However, the difference from what was proposed to what was agreed at COAG is enormous.

Firstly Rudd had to throw so much money at the states that he has threatened to blow out the budget, and has had to ditch other projects such as the ETS,

Secondly, Rudd had to compromise so much on the control of the funding, that the efficiencies have been discarded, and the reality on the ground is that the control of health is not significantly different from what it was before, and the only benefit patients will see on the ground is the extra money Rudd has thrown at health, which could have occurred without the "reform"

Finally, Rudd has failed to get consensus, which is a key requirement for COAG agreements. His proposal to override or bypass WA is likely to meet stiff resistance in the senate, especially if he tries to withhold the extra funding from WA.

My cynical gut feel is that this is a pre election publicity stunt by Labor at tax payers' expense.

Shadow Minister, Yup !

Dear Shadow Minister,

I received this email on the subject
from a friend that
you and others may enjoy:

"The Australian Medical Association has weighed in
on the new Rudd Health Care Proposals...

The Allergists voted to scratch it, but the
Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves.
The Gastrpenterologists had a sort of gut feeling
about it, but the Neurologists thought the
Administration had a lot of nerve.

The Obstetricians felt they were all laboring under
a misconception. Opthalmologists considered the idea
shortsighted. Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!"
while the Pediatricians said, "Oh, Grow Up!"

The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness,
while the Radiologists could see right through it.

Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing.
The Internists thought it was a bitter pill to swallow,
and the PLastic Surgeons said, "This puts a whole new
face on the matter."

The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the
Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea.
The Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas,
and the Cardiologists didn't have the heart of say no.

In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire
decision up to all the assholes (sorry - politicians)
in Canberra."

Foxy

Loved it.

Foxy

"I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy!"

Brilliant.

Bravo Foxy,

Well said.

Foxy, I think you are a nuch naughtier lady, than you would have everyone believe, ay first glance.

Much, much much much, dill.

Dear Examinator, Severin, Shadow Minister,

I'm glad that you enjoyed the AMA's summary
on the new Rudd Health Care Proposals.

I loved it as well!

Dear Hasbeen,

Naughty can be nice.
(But it's never dull).

In some ways, this is actually a really sad story, for this
country is just loaded with opportunity and salt of the earth
people, who want to improve it.

But when the bureaucrats move in, its all a repetition of
that famous "Yes Minister".

I quite liked Rudd when he became PM, I felt he had quite
a bit of intelligence and rather a smart PM, then a dumb
one. As it happens, I have no faith whatsover in Abbott's
judgement.

But the amount of money that this lot have peed up against
proverbial walls, with disasterous results, is quite
incredible!

So I'm glad that Colin Barnett is holding out, for I have
yet to see that Canberra can do it better then the states.

Given their record so far, they have much to be ashamed about,
even if their intentions were good.

Shadow minister I see the imprint of the oppositions no policy's policy in your post.
Looking in to my crystal ball.
Abbott will support it.
WA will come on board.
10 years from now we all will say it has worked but needs to see continuing change.
By that time costs of health care will be a concern to us all, few will doubt if we had not begun to address it now we would be much worse of.
OH and the electorate will return Rudd with an increased majority this year.

Belly,

The No policy policy is a good name for Rudd's health plan, as having achieved none of the objectives set out in the original plan and costing billions more, it is hollow and a reform in name only.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how things will change on the ground as to the future administration that would be different if Rudd hadn't simply given the states 6bn to spend on extra beds etc.

In a way Belly, you highlight the problem. You are so keen
on politics, that your crystal ball is focussed on who wins
the next elections, not how we can land up with less wasteful
Govt.

That is exactly what happened in Greece, Spain, Portugal etc,
the net result being, political squabbling has taken them
over the edge, heading down the road towards becoming
banana republics of debt. Only EU membership is propping
them up right now.

What most governments want to ignore is that for health services to improve it will require increased funding (not different funding) for more beds, new hospitals and more health practitioners, particularly if we are intent on a Big Australia. We might wangle it with less funding (or not much more) if we can get rid of some layers of bureaucracy that don't add any value to the services provided.

If we can ever get away from politics in this debate, which is unlikely, there might be some hope for health reform.

for those wondering how krudd would pay for it..well the smokers of course..such a clever person..

trouble being not a cent of the new tax goes to govt..it goes to the fed..no tax..goes to govt..it all goes..direct to the bankers/fed..though the ignorant..will debate it with their opinion

its funny..how the k[iddy;lover]rudd..didnt put a tax on lollies..ie the obesity epidemic...or the booze hounds..but then who wants mobs of angry drunks../on the street..

or for krudd to loose..his photo-ops with kids..in schools..thus the overnight tax on smokers..and will it be in the tax REVIEUW..lol..no revieuw..here just krudds/vieuw..noting the mining tax wont get opposition support...cause they allready refused..that

the two-party joke..see the fruit..and know its fruit is most foul..have the guts to make drunks pay their way...smokers allready been told..they wonnt get aid..cause their TROUBLE.isSELF INFLICTED..YET ARE EXPECTED TO/bailout..krud#s promises..immediatly

the constitution dosnt allow any tax/recall the salt tax/..ghandi was a lawyer/.he knew it[ALL TAX]is unconstitutional

i hear the numbers..15,000 deaths..
problem being..my ciggie pack says 19,000..
thats the issue govts lie..even passed a law allowing them to lie..thats unconstitutional../or immoral..

note re the deaths..WE DONT have autoptcy..death..'cause'..is what the doc writes down..if the possable death cause is.'smoking/RELATED..then it goes to the deaths..'ATTRIBUTABLE'..to smoking

kids dont care about the price of cigs..it all goes unthinkingly onto the credit card..they only make minimum pazyments on..

how much percent is minimum payment?..they are ..'buying their fags/booze/cars..for pennies on the dollar!.these destractions remind me k/rudd..is doing this to destract away from other issues..he also cant..constitutionally do...
both parties have the same adenda...advised by the same bloated/pensioned elite..and their banker/lawyer mates

.recall the carbon tax..[unconstuitutional/too]..yet is was the same as howhards..see the same bloated public service boys club runs the two party system..via the sports rorts clubs/getting huge multilevel/govt grants..wont get intoi murdoc running the sports club..there is the rub..half our news is sport

Well i thought this was about the health reforms. Much seems to be getting said about elections and oppositions.
The long awaited health reforms by the krudd government are of little to no use at all. They will in the future allow the federal government to wear the brunt of spiralling costs caused by the ever fearful public that want to live forever in the nanny state of Aus.
Our ever vigilant but expensive and useless state governments have yet again managed to negotiate absolutely nothing at all and with WA holding out so they can pay half of their GST into health in the future while everyone else pays 1/3. They really got nowhere.
Real reform for the health system will begin with a referendum to get rid of states, recognise local government and regionalise administration. This of course would be too much for all to cope with, we are not good at the thought of change in this country, we would rather maintain confused systems of administration in a rotting and corrupt method of governance and economics.
OOOH, that was a mouthful.

I found Foxys post the best.
yabbys the most interesting.
And got the true Belly laugh out of Shadow minister.
Rudd has been blocked at every turn by conservatives who are nothing but an opposition, in training to remain an opposition.
Yes health costs are out of control.
Yes we must do much better, in delivery, and costs/charges.
And yes we must feel pain, pay our share for better health services, all of us.
However with a Senate that will not budge are we sure Rudd has no plans to improve the whole health service/delivery thing.
Can ANYONE give me evidence this is only about costs?
Our system is in trouble, costs are huge, unpayable, but the core problem is service delivery.
Doctors and Chemists are bribed by international groups to sell products.
Profit drives old age care not care, health is a gold mine for share holders.
Lost senators and rabbotts hold outs pretend Rudd's wishes In health care insurance is a cash grab.
They know, informed people do, we have to work 24/7 and hard to both fund and change health care, and we still may fail.
Rudd at least is trying ,that is why yabby he has already won the election.
elections are about voters judging who best serves them.

NO TAX WITHOUT REPRESENTATION..what a laugh..krudd needs..6 bil..so lets tax the mug/smokers..while insulting them..and threatening them with refusal..of medical services

and/all the non-smokers..reformed smokers..all get their healing for free..on the back of the loner-smokers..paying an unconstitutional tax..because..not only are we un-represented...we are actually repressed/..dispised..by all

the miners/poluting national-parks and deep-oceans/estories
..bankers/corrupting the money system..drinkers/filling up hospital beds on friday/saterdaY NIGHT...THE chocolate/sweets gorgers..who injest their..junkfood..and get self-inflicted diabetus..no worries...let the smokers pay for you..

after a huge cam-pain..of spin and redicule..and no-0one gives a stuff..you drunks know no end..with your silence..

krudd making promises..by taxing us..for/our own good...lol..what about you drunks/dopers

asbestosis..will fill your hospitals..but each..will be called smoking related

passive/smoking...lol..yet we breath..your foul car egsaust..your mutagene laden perfumes..your clorinated water..when i shower..

wood-smoke .is the biggest cause of lung cancer..and ciggies used to have asbestus filters../lit..by matches..or benzine/feuled..zippoes

but..its the smoke...laden with additives..govt has mandated/to make the smoke bitter/and reek..adding sulfer/to make it burn...and now other aditives/to make it not burn..lol..if there is a healthy issue..make/mandate pure toobacco..

hope you quiters..get fat.,.you earnned that..by your ignorance and hatred of the facts..when you accepted the spin..instead of remaining calm with nicoteen..[lol..like me].you will remain doped on govt subsised perscription/meds..and their..adverse reactions

noting the latest..is you have to go to a docter to get a codene headache tablet..just like they have trippled the cost of vitamins..thanks to that drug company/codex-alimentarious..but you ignorant paid to bloggers got no idea..

thank god..my web acces is restricted..[thanks to the enron mob who set up internet load-limit's]..so i hope to be over all of this/urge to inform soon..and havnt botherd to see a quack since howhard got rid of..bulkbilling..

but no doudt my death..advanced by govt malfeasance..will be smoking RELATED

...going to a hospital..the docter says a smoker..next please..

add his cause of death as smoking..yet i cant even die..doing that act of smoking..

oh god..i wish i were a drinker..then i could get as many livers as they will/need..

maybe they will give mine to a drunk..as soon as i die smoking

Ah Belly, you continue to be very tribal by nature, fair enough,
that is you. Your party, your football team etc.

That is just not my nature. Buy everyone their own football
and they won't need to argue about just the one :)

So I'm more in favour of intelligent and well thought through
and well implimented policy, then in which party it came from.

So my point is this. Canberra has yet to show that they have
any ability to administer things better from thousands of
km away, as they are seemingly very out of touch most of the
time, as to what is going on in WA.

WA is a massive state, it covers a third of the country, with
only 10% of the population. So our problems when it comes
to health services, would be quite different to what is happening
in downtown Sydney or Melbourne.

Given that Canberra shows no ability at administering anything
much efficiently, but simply rely on their power to tax, to
keep the coffers loaded, given that they are out of touch with
what the needs of people in the vast areas of WA would be,
why should I think its a good idea for them to take over
hospitals in this State?

yabby you do have me wrong, truly.
over the past two weeks intensively and two months in all I have campaigned against a minister and state leader ,both from my party.
No hiding under the veranda full on opposition.
In threads right here stood side by side with an NRL club I dislike intensely.
An opponent of my club and high on the no mate of mine list.
I tend in fact to say it like I think.
Here are some honestly held thoughts
Environmental ministers best help for my party would be to leave.
If not give him a mop and bucket he may not get that done right but last chance clean outdoors in the Parliament.
Rudd in my view understands we need better health care, if he held a DD, he should and may still hold one.
he would get the power to give us just that.
no halos but he is going well some of his team are useless as, well you know that.
Look however, just over the fence at the other mob.
On your farm you may well not look that way for breeding stock.
On mine ,once not now, most would be on the way to America as hamburger.

*Rudd in my view understands we need better health care,*

Belly, you miss my point entirely. Good intentions by Mr Rudd
are simply not enough. I judge people by their actions and
even you would have to admit that the various schemes and
ideas that the Govt dreamed up, have hardly been implimented
cost effectively and efficiently.

I'm not looking at the other mob, for I'd rather that
the whole thing stay in WA hands, where we have a bit more
say as to outcomes here.

If Rudd wants better healthcare, he has a large enough
Govt cheque book, to contribute to healthcare, by reaching
agreement with various states, where funding is lacking,
precise programmes, like building another hospital here
or there or whatever.

Canberra has a heap of control freaks, but their intelligence
and abilities are simply not up to it, as the evidence
shows.

Belly,

"Rudd has been blocked at every turn by conservatives"

Not in health care. All the compromises were made to the labor states. Stick to the issue.

I see no evidence that the proposed change is only about cash.
Or that Rudd is not attempting to standardize health care across Australia.
Better, improved, changed health care is in my view his aim.
On election day, in fact now in the polls, Australians in the majority are going to back Rudd.
Who, tell me please, truly honestly thinks no change on the ground is even the remotest possibility?
Anyone?

Belly, you miss the point completely.

I will be the first to agree that the liberals right now, lack
good judgement and talent. If it had been up to me, Costello
would have taken over, but that was not to be.

That does not mean that whatever Rudd decides is good policy
or that Australians agree with it. The fact of the matter
is that people don't really have alot of options.

The really smart people don't bother with politics, they
go into private enterprise.

But as I pointed out, what is good policy is not your
aim, as long as "your party" wins, seems to be all that
matters.

Admit it, you are tribal by nature!

Its not hard to prove my point. How many times have you voted
for other parties in the last 25 years?

Twice
And in the next NSW election
In print in another forum I ran heavy campaigns against Latham and his rabbit mate Simon Crean, cringe every time I thing of them.

*Twice*

Good grief Belly, it must be about to snow in coastal NSW :)

Ah well, that is good news then. I'm just sick of all this
party stuff. The majority of politicians are too busy focussing
on how to get re elected, rather then focussing on good policy
that improves the country. They say we get the politicians that
we deserve, so maybe we deserve the crap that some of them dish
out, we only have ourselves to blame. People sadly seem to prefer
to learn the hard way. The Greeks are just finding that out,
as the IMF moves in.