suzeonline,

Its not my faith I have an issue with, it's people like yourself continually taking the opportunity to hijack threads such as this for the purpose of personal agenda and trolling. Quite OBVIOUSLY the thread has ZERO to do with ANYONE'S faith other than mine and the dilemma it caused me over wanting to join the Police at that time.

But here, I've got to give YOU time over the people who did actually understand the topic.

If you want a theological discussion about religion and killing, please, start another thread.

Pelican,

Cheers, I actually didn't end up applying for various reasons. 12+ hour shifts versus the remuneration, lifestyle at home, politics, quality of others joining, others personal stories etc etc. Just wasn't worth it. I talked with a detective who can't sleep without getting drunk, lost his family, etc, he said don't do it.

Pynchme,

Yeah, those are the sort of things that were churning around inside.

CJ,

"Yea, as I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I fear no evil, because I am the baddest mother f*$#%r IN the valley". ;o)

we are unique,

Cheers.

Cornflower,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Stg

When I saw the topic of your thread I thought it was to be about the recent actions by Christian Militia such as the recent terrorism by Hutaree.

Of course, as I read on it was about the conflict of carrying a weapon as part of the career as a policeman while being religious.

My first point is that anyone would have difficulty with the conundrum of being in a position where it may be necessary to wound or take a life. Being Christian does not give a monopoly on morality.

Which brings me to my second point:

Suzeonline was well within her rights to consider that this was a discussion about religion and carrying a gun, given that your opening post discussed this very issue. To then accuse her of flaming is irrational.

Finally, I would also like to point out that having worked with police (I agree with Pelican) the majority do not use their weapons without good reason (unfortunately there is a minority of gung ho types as in any organisation). However, it pains me that both you and Cornflower have made blatant claims about "offenders", and I will quote CF:

>>> because offenders are always cowards and would usually have the drop on police <<<

NO, offenders are not always cowards, nor are they necessarily aware of their transgression, for example mental disorder, and "usually have the drop on police" no, not necessarily. Offenders may or may not be armed, dangerous or even more threatening than an injured animal. Generalising about transgressors is the type of attitudes I would expect from conservative authoritarian types who believe they are always in the right.

CJ Morgan

Loved Samuel L Jackson's piece in Pulp Fiction, my favourite scene in the entire movie.

In defence of StG, I don't think he was implying that the religious have the corner on morality, just that for him it was a personal conflict. That is how I took it and I am sure given StG's usual posts he was not making any judgements on others regardless of their beliefs.

Dear StG,

Good topic.

You said; “The offender KNOWS the potential consequences of their actions and as a Police Officer they KNOW the tools you have at your disposal and the possible outcome of them threatening others lives.”

However I'm not sure intent, particularly on behalf of the offender, is a proper yardstick to judge the strength of ones moral justification in taking another's life.

Most of the police shootings in recent times in Victoria are not directed at hardened criminals but rather mentally disturbed or drug affected individuals, usually knife wielding rather than gun armed.

So I would argue the though of these individuals knowing the consequences of their actions is fraught.

My brother worked as a Federal Policeman and said pulling over a car with armed bikkies and drugs on board was less intimidating than walking down a pathway after taking a man's children away from him after a Family Court judgement knowing there were guns in the house.

The more harden criminals in the drugs case quickly assessed the situation, pulled over, put their weapons on the ground beside their car and sat their with their hands up.

Cont...

Cont..

Through the eighties in Victoria it was a different story with many criminals shot and quite a number of police gunned down or blown up. I always reflect on this when I hear people calling for us to return to the good old days when the police were hard-arses. Thankfully some enlighten members of police command and the government defused what had become an all out war and lives on both sides are being preserved as a result.

I'm not aware of the culture within the Queensland police force but the point I'm making is that it can be entirely out of your control and often you actions are dictated by those who command you.

This is one of the reasons why I have respect for our law enforcement and armed service personnel. They have sacrificed a portion of their autonomy for the service to their community or country.

To put it crudely they have been prepared to shelve part of their natural morality to effectively do their job. Rather than deny this or find a moral justification for an immoral act perhaps we should recognise the sacrifice being made, often on our behalf.

I remember doing a tour of the Fremantle Goal during which the guide pointed out that the Ten Commandments on the wall had been altered to read “Thou shalt not Murder”. The reason was right next door the state was busily dropping citizens through trapdoors.

Shouldn't we refrain from such hypocrisy?