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The Forum > General Discussion > Why can't pay rates be negotiated if both parties agree.

Why can't pay rates be negotiated if both parties agree.

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Rechtub, would you sell your product for less than its market value.
I truly pay more to buy better, not the big shops a butcher who knows my name.
It costs more, you tell of mates who make 3 times our PMs wages.
Your wage structure is well below par in NSW, Butchers like top quality mechanics, are paid less than market prices.
I have a mate, 25 years in your trade, he grew sick of being paid so little.
I got him a job, in traffic control, he brings $22.60 an hour normal time home, casual, but works 65 hours a week.
His only product is his work and time, he is meeting market forces banking money and his boss? 10% profit on every dollar he pays clear.
His boss employs 1500 people in this state.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 4 April 2010 1:46:46 PM
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...Rechtub and how easy for owners or managers of businesses to start 'expecting' their employees to say 'yes' to working extra hours on weekends after the initial couple of times are agreed upon mutually.

"Oh Joe, are you fine to work the next couple of weekends, you know, it would save me paying penalty rates to a casual this month, more money in the pocket for you Joe, and lol of course benefits my business".

Joe scratches his head concerned about his wife going through chemotherapy at home with their two toddlers and no extended family around. Then Joe thinks about his job security to support his wife and kids. Weighs it up and knows that butcher positions in his city or town are difficult to find.

"Sure Rechtub can do".
Posted by we are unique, Sunday, 4 April 2010 11:00:57 PM
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we are unique I truly value and admire your input.
My task as a unionist is never easy, some past events and people I never even knew are heavy weight in my saddle bags.
One day, I Am positive, unions will dump the miss deeds of a few and the wild some times untrue, past sins.
Some times they happened, I will not ever forget or forgive waterside workers banning mail to soldiers serving in the Asian war.
Human beings, the bloke on the next green at golf,the next seat at the football, are unionists to.
Some will never be rich, some will not waste income as rechtub tells, many will.
But their product, their existence, is work.
Remember their boss is no Charity he/she employs them to profit.
One day the value of weekends with wife and kids will be seen as it once was a real existing thing that can not be bought by cash.
As we want 24 hour trading, we do, who was annoyed by no shops on Easter.
We must plan to truly reward those who work those days and give up being at the footy with the kids.
If I was rechtubs workers rep, I would first sit down with them.
Find out who if any did not mind working most weekends, for a better reward.
Number those who did not /could not work such hours.
Some, hard good workers, want that home are saving for it and would hold their hand up to offer those weekends ,for the cash, value such rechtub reward them keep them but family lifestyle and social life is not yours to buy at any price.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 5 April 2010 6:08:28 AM
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we are unique,
We can all refer to the .001% of cases if we choose, but in reality we are talking about the remaining 99.9% of situations.

Now for the last time I am not talking about forcing people to work hours they don't want to work, more so, I am talking about extra hours if they so choose and, many do now for 'cash'.

And belly, by wanting to extend trading hours and force employers in retail to pay for the privilage will simply result in less 'small' retailers.

Question.
Would any of you be happy to pay a 'surcharge' when sopping on weekends?

Do you think you should have to knowing it costs the owners of all businesses more to trade on weekends?

Think very hard before you make your wish as you may not like the eventual outcome.

Remember your mate the butcher on low wages. This situation is very rare becasue many work long hours and are paid cash.

There are only two winners with cash. The workers and the bosses and, the bosses are taking a huge risk and they don't like it.

The alternative is to pay extra to sell their products and make less themselves.

All other potential beneficiaries, including you and I miss out.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 5 April 2010 6:56:46 AM
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The costs of employment are already built into the price. The arrangements you talk about rehctub only benefit the business. It is rare that business will pass on any savings to the consumer.

I did not see any restaurant I normally attend drop the prices on the menu when they ceased weekend penalty payments. My daughter worked as a waitress and prices were the same before and after WC despite the loss of penalty rates.

While you may be thinking positively about giving an employee the opportunity to work normal pay for weekend hours, this does not apply to all employers and as 'we are unique' wrote there may be some future expectations built in for SOME employers based on what started out as a casual arrangement.

It also means that casuals miss out on the shifts and they also have bills to pay.

That is why it is easier and fairer to have inbuilt universal wage and conditions into the economy.
Posted by pelican, Monday, 5 April 2010 9:24:52 AM
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*It also means that casuals miss out on the shifts and they also have bills to pay.*

Pelican, that is all very nice, very fair and very sweet, I am sure
you are all those things, but it makes no economic sense at all!
That is exactly why Australia will stay a farm and a minesite,
forget an intelligent economy, which we once dreamed of.

So much of Eastern Australia will rely on housebuilding for even
more migrants and even more shopping, to drive the economy. For
all those Australians have no hope of being globally competitive
in any way, so all they can do is trade with each other locally.

What we need in Australia is intelligent industry, like the US,
Japan, Germany and other first world countries have. But it won't
happen, as 9 out of 10 entrepeneurs will look at this long list
of lurks, perks and conditions that you insist on, and simply go
elsewhere. We've seen it all before, when Kim Beasly was promoting
"job creation " schemes.

So more mining and housebuilding it is, next you'll be complaining
about too many migrants :)

.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 5 April 2010 8:15:41 PM
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