Let's run through that again, shall we Peter Hume.

>>Pericles, you need to compare the change of value of gold in real terms, not paper terms, versus that of fiat money in real terms.<<

So, it's 1971, and I pay my admin assistant $7 an hour. (Actually, back then I probably would have called her my secretary, but we'll let that one through to the 'keeper, eh?) In fact, I give her an ounce of gold ($35) for every five hours she works, a total of 8oz a week.

If I gave her the same wage today, in your "stable" gold currency, I'd need to find 416oz a year, which is, I suggest, something of a stretch.

(Incidentally, the "Fiat" value of that gold is, according to today's paper, would give her an annual salary of $512,096)

But even at today's prices, let's take a large business, and see what the effect might be.

Telstra would need around 3.5m ounces of gold to pay their people each year. Conveniently, that's almost exactly 100 metric tonnes.

Which is around half of Australia's total annual output.

Just for Telstra.

>>gold has kept or increased its buying power.<<

True, but not in the way you imagine, since you make the same mistake, and compare it to a "fiat" currency in order to calculate its "buying power".

Let's think this one through.

Starting today, I issue gold-backed notes. At, say, $40 a gram.

My total possible "store of wealth" as you call it, would be ($40m x 220) $8.8bn a year, if I cornered the entire Australian gold production.

Question 1. What would the remaining 99% of the economy use for money? (Go on, check my figures: We are presently running a GDP of $1.02 trillion)

Question 2. If I need 100% of Australia's gold production to support 1% of the economy, would demand for gold increase or decrease?

That should do for a while, I think.

If possible could you respond with real examples? Theories only take us so far.

Pericles,you refuse to acknowlege that the present Keynesian system is stuffed since it has put the cart before the horse.The monetary system has excelled over real productivity.Who are the richest institutions on the planet and produce nothing? Our global reserve banks since they create inflationary money diluting the wealth generated by the real economy.When banks or Govts create inflation by the the production of excess money,it takes wealth from the rest of society by devaluing their currency.It is not theirs to devalue.This wealth belongs to the people who created it,not Govt,Wall St or the big banks.

This dysfunctional system actually destroys real wealth as we are witnessing now.The real wealth is in the skills,intelligence and aspirations of the general populace,not the avarice and lust for power exhibited by these present wreckers.

Pericles,the offer is still current of $20,000.00 if you can disprove the physics and maths of WTC 7 and the towers of 911 presented by http://www.aetruth.org/ I'm sure John and Richard Gage will offer you even more easy money if you have the courage of your convictions.

Pericles:
You, not I, have continued to reckon the value of gold *by way of* fiat money prices, which invalidates that line of reasoning.

And that evasion is your idea of answering the question: "how does printing more money or money substitutes create net real wealth?", is it? Why don't you just admit that you can't answer it?

Since you obviously have no idea what an intellectually honest conversation would look like, it would look like this:
Pericles: "By gum you're right Peter Hume. Good point. Now that I come to think of it, I can't see how we could create net real wealth just by printing paper. Since the proposition plainly violates the known laws of physics, and since I have, on being repeatedly asked, been completely unable to show any reason to think we can do it, I must concede that point, and with it, I concede the general issue. The claims of the inflationists, to create prosperity by credit expansion, cannot withstand critical scrutiny, and are false. To avoid any appearance of evasion, I hereby renounce my former ill-thought-out belief that we can make net real wealth by printing paper, declare that I was barking up the wrong tree, and humbly apologise for having troubled your patience in raising me from my former rude state of ignorance and superstitious state-worship. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Amen."

The answers to your further questions must however await your erudition from the ignorance of your current clueless bumbling. All the examples in the world won't help you understand, while ever your apparatus of understanding is home-spun non-theory made up of garbled fragmented incoherent Keynesianism, and you demonstrably and shamelessly:
a) confuse paper with real wealth
b) confuse money with money substitutes
c) confuse production with consumption
d) confuse taxation with money supply and
e) confuse consent with coercion.

I know that *you* think your latest queries are clever and incisive, but in fact they just show that you don't understand what you're talking about, and are being hammered into the ground like a tent-peg.

*The claims of the inflationists, to create prosperity by credit expansion, cannot withstand critical scrutiny, and are false.*

Not so Peter. Credit greases the wheels of commerce. With less
credit, you have less economic activity, less innovtion and
less wealth creation.

Lets just go right back to the basics of the third world on this,
for you to understand it. To the world of microcredit, where banks
do the lending, banks specialised in the field.

The African woman borrows a couple of hundred $ to buy a sewing
machine. She can create clothing etc, with her new business.
Or the poor farmer who can now buy fertiliser, to grow a crop,
which he could not have grown without it. Or it would have yielded
a quarter of his crop with fertiliser. Or he buys a rotary hoe
to till his fields, enabling him to grow far more food them
ever before. All wealth creation, by the simple ability to
borrow.

You're back on the "insults as argument" track again, Peter Hume.

It really isn't a good look, you know.

>>...evasion is your idea of answering the question... you obviously have no idea what an intellectually honest conversation would look like... the ignorance of your current clueless bumbling... your apparatus of understanding is home-spun non-theory made up of garbled fragmented incoherent Keynesianism... you don't understand what you're talking about, and are being hammered into the ground like a tent-peg.<<

Now that you have got that out of your system, how about actually addressing a few of the points, instead of pretending they don't exist.

Eh?

How would our Australian economy operate, on a gold standard?

Really. Not in theory, or in a perfect world. But practically.

It is permissible to explain that gold is only one possible standard. But if you do so, you should also explain how your substitute would operate. In real life.

You suggest that I "confuse money with money substitutes".

In what way? You are suggesting that "fiat currencies" are somehow undesirable, yet you have not proposed any workable alternative. What conclusions are we supposed to draw from that?

You suggest that I "confuse production with consumption".

Ok, let's hear an explanation from you, that separates the "production" of gold clearly from the "consumption" of gold, in your non-fiat-currency world.

But let's get back to your trump card. That famous "non-question"...

"how does printing more money or money substitutes create net real wealth?"

The answer is that "on it's own, it does nothing"

In the same way that if a country printed a trillion dollars of "new money", and hid it in the cellar under Parliament House, it would have absolutely no impact on the economy whatsoever.

Money - of any kind - only has value when it moves.

It is the IMF and the World Bank Yabby who keep third world countries in debt.They loan to corrupt Govts and get their resources and labor for a song.These countries cannot get out of the debt spiral.

These countries must also be allowed to generate a % of their own credit.The loans should be targeted at community projects rather then corrupt Govts.