As someone who has sifted through many an job application for prospective employees from the ranks of school leavers I was wondering if the MySchool web site might assist us small business people in our selections.

Given that the schools are ranked already I wouldn't imagine it would be too hard to give a corrective figure for a student's ENTER score based on what school they had attended.

I mean I don't want the dunce level of some independent school even though his/her results might place them above smarter state school kids.

For instance some schools battle to get 5% of their students achieving 90 or above while others have 30% +. But we all know that from the 200 odd kids graduating in each the mean IQ rank will not vary all that much if at all.

I would love the ability to pick from the top 25% of any school, I just need the data to do so. It should be easy, just have a drop down list of schools and a place to put in their score and bingo!

I suppose I could get a rough guide from the listed ICSEA value but it is hardly definitive. My scheme would be much better.

csteele,

The OP levels are normalised across the state, as are the field scores for each subject. Just ask to see them as part of the job interview.

What are you hiring for?
That necessitates such narrow parameters?
Perhaps you need do a bit more research on employment selection techniques.

Dear rstuart,

What are the OP levels? I am unfamiliar with the initials.

Dear examinator,

Unfortunately in small business one does not have the luxury of personality or aptitude tests. I have employed school leavers for retail, wholesale and manufacturing. After a while you develop a gut feel for what works. Generally minimum top 50% academically for retail/sales positions, manufacturing needs smarts and an ability to stick at something (sport history seems to be a fair guide). Wholesale demands good problem solving skills and calmness under pressure (beware of any art subjects).

The ones I feel are the hardest to fill are trade apprenticeships. I have a plasterer mate who runs a couple of plastering teams. He now only employs private school kids from top end schools because he found them to be the best at taking orders without being smart arses. One of his best was a chap who had won a number of literary prizes.

But for me ultimately it is around 20% about what they bring on a piece of paper and the rest is the interview. I will admit to these being pretty crude employment selection techniques but I can't remember any not making it through their trial periods.

Sorry guys, forgot to ask, would either of you have a problem with having the MySchool web site altered to accomodate these proposed changes?

Myschool has been so crippled to prevent anyone from comparing all schools and HSC results, or teacher that I found it pretty useless.

I would be happy with some Myschool functionality.

csteele: "What are the OP levels? I am unfamiliar with the initials."

It is a Queensland thing, so if you don't live in Queensland you won't know them. I don't know how other states work, but surely they have something similar.

OP levels are designed to solve the very problem you describe. Near the end of grade 12, most Queensland students take some form of exam. I forget the name, but it is identical for all students, and it is taken at the same time by everyone. It runs for several hours, and evaluates the students competency in all the basics.

The results of the exam are then used to grade the schools. So if two schools awarded say a B for maths, and did averagely well in the math section of the exam then it might stay a B. But if they did very well in the exam the mark might go up to an A, and conversely if they did appallingly if might go down to a C.

In actual fact the marks awarded aren't as course as A, B, C ... The students score in each area is ranked out of 70 or 100 of something. This is called their "field position" for the subject and it is meant to be uniform indicator for a kids performance in that subject across the state. Thus Universities specify minimum field positions for their courses. For example, the field positions required for Engineering are high in maths, but low in English.

These field positions are exactly what you are after.

Needless to say, some schools try the game the system. The favourite tactic is to somehow to arrange for students who won't do well on the exam to not be a school that day - for example to be sick. It works, but such students don't get an OP score or field positions.

That one externally set test is the "core skills teat". The test is used to rank schools against each other,

This is then theoretically applied to kids in school assessments, to compare all kids across the state, for university entrance. This most elaborate pile of rubbish is designed to avoid a simple fair external exam.

This will get the ladies going. This is part of the feminisation of education. Girls perform much better in home done assignments, where as boys do better in a high stress winner take all, one off exam. This no exam system has seen a great improvmement in girls results.

The whole system is designed to prevent stress, that's the worst thing. When hiring, I have found that one of the most important aspects is ascertaining the applicants ability to handle stress. To avoid stress in the assessment system is self defeating, making the whole thing worthless.

When hiring young women as hostesses, for day trip tourist boats, a job I did not see as stressful, I was surprised to find the worst performing group were school teachers, taking a year off. They could not handle the stress.

After a time, I narrowed it down. Bank tellers, waitresses, & fast food workers, were what I needed. The minor stress in the job, was like water off a ducks back to them.

I think that by avoiding stress, as much as possible, schools are not helping prepare the kids for the real world.

It is well known that schools cheat on the Naplan test they use for the Myschools website. Private schools ask the learning difficulties students to stay home so they can boast about their results. Public schools rely on the funding they get for disadvantaged students which is tied to the test, so they encourage all their learning challenged students to attend. Plus I've been told about Private schools who open the test the day before and set the story as homework.

I wouldn't trust any of the results on this website.

Thank you for your responses.

As a employer and a parent I would like to see two sets of marks. The one that delivers the ENTER which is measured across from marks across the State but also one that ranks an individual against others within the school who have access to the same resources.

In a standard highschool of 1200 with 200 doing year 12 I think it would be statistically relevant measure. Perhaps in the less populated subjects there might need to be a banding across several schools of a similar ICSEA.

I'm not sure that is being delivered by the OP levels.

I'm also wondering how much the ICSEA is being taken into account in gaining university places.