Sorry banjo, I will continue.

Your quotes from previous threads are in a similar vein to the one you said to me. Example:
This quote: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3319#78854

"There is no proof of CO2 causing temperatures to rise and in fact the natural proportion of CO2 is many, many times that produced by human activity. (I've forgotten the propotions)"

This statement and ones like it are the biggest problem to common reason. Why: It says nothing, it takes snippets of information and generalises and it specifies nothing. Please then show me the argument.

"There is no proof of CO2 causing temperatures to rise and ... "
Is this that a chamber containing a vacuum does not increase in temperature if CO2 is added or are we talking of the atmosphere.

CO2 is one of the main gases that enables our planet to maintain the constant and very tiny range neede to maintain life on this planet.

The second part is absolutely true, and if your assumption was correctly expanded, well the tractor would be out of the mud.

A similar example is easier for us to understand as it is common knowlege.

The human temperature range is 36.8±0.7 °C, or 98.2±1.3 °F, plus or minus 0.7 °C hmmm not much tollerance.

Now a few bacteria added to the system and quickly the temperature can be caused to raise a few degrees, but 3 or 4 can bring sudden death.

So does the statement:

the natural temperature range of the human body (proportion of CO2) is many, many times that produced by bacterial (human) activity.

Mean that you think we shouldn't be using antibiotics?

So saying, if they don't come here and live by our "Christian" standards, they are worse off

Maybe when the droughts strike we should just give up the land eh. Dust and flies and more dust.
Why dont they come to the city then?

Why does Banjo take the flies, lack of hygiene etc in Africa as a given? Why does he not see it as something that can be changed? Why cannot Africans live with dignity and prosperity? Why should they be forced to flee their homes in terror and sadness? I wonder if Wybong's new friend would prefer a good life in Africa to his job at Mt Druitt?
I find it disturbing that we can pat ourselves on the back for taking this guy in while ignoring the fact that we did nothing to stop the horrendous situation that forced him to flee.

Good on you Wybong for making an effort.

mikk: Fix the problem, Oh you radical thinkers.

Exactly, a lot of these countries, they have as much, if not more resources than we have. Higher rainfall, more arible lands etc. What they don't have is oil or other fossil fuels, and are of little startegic value so therefore would not interest the US.

What they do have is highly unstable and sometimes criminal and currupt governments, well more unstable and more corupt then us.

Fixing the problems there, so they can live in their ancestral homes, and where they can learn and adapt to change in a way that suits them, their needs and their culture is a much better way then to bring them here and "Europenise" them.

Most of the third worlds problems are a legacy from early colonial rule. "We came, We saw, We took what We wanted, We left, We forgot"

Facts: Unless we can convince EVERY nation to reduce there net population growth to zero, one day, there will be no room for all of us to even find enough room to stand.

Who were those farmers taht brought rabits and foxes to Australia, to hunt wasn't it. This shows what happens when population growth is NOT considered.

In my very selfish, self centred opinion, it is far far better for me to raise the worlds living standard by 1% across the board, then it is to raise mine alone (or Australia's even) by 5%. Why, because I can enjoy my 1% more, without fear of averice and with a guilt free conscience.

We are a smart animal, we CAN fix ALL the problems in the world.

I commenced my career as a farmer on my family farm. I remember once standing along side 2 empty semis, facing about 500 bales of hay, the temperature was around 90°F and was expected to top 105. My father climbed onto the trailer, signaled the driver to commence, looked ot my grandfather and I and said.

"It's not gunna get loaded, by standing here lookin at it"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/opinion/07kristof.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print

may be of interest regarding this discussion. It is a third world country whose people are happy where they are.

From that URL:

Costa Rica is one of the very few countries to have abolished its army, and it’s also arguably the happiest nation on earth.

There are several ways of measuring happiness in countries, all inexact, but this pearl of Central America does stunningly well by whatever system is used. For example, the World Database of Happiness, compiled by a Dutch sociologist on the basis of answers to surveys by Gallup and others, lists Costa Rica in the top spot out of 148 nations.

That’s because Costa Ricans, asked to rate their own happiness on a 10-point scale, average 8.5. Denmark is next at 8.3, the United States ranks 20th at 7.4 and Togo and Tanzania bring up the caboose at 2.6.

Scholars also calculate happiness by determining “happy life years.” This figure results from merging average self-reported happiness, as above, with life expectancy. Using this system, Costa Rica again easily tops the list. The United States is 19th, and Zimbabwe comes in last.

A third approach is the “happy planet index,” devised by the New Economics Foundation, a liberal think tank. This combines happiness and longevity but adjusts for environmental impact — such as the carbon that countries spew.

Here again, Costa Rica wins the day, for achieving contentment and longevity in an environmentally sustainable way. The Dominican Republic ranks second, the United States 114th (because of its huge ecological footprint) and Zimbabwe is last.

Maybe Costa Rican contentment has something to do with the chance to explore dazzling beaches on both sides of the country, when one isn’t admiring the sloths in the jungle (sloths truly are slothful, I discovered; they are the tortoises of the trees). Costa Rica has done an unusually good job preserving nature, and it’s surely easier to be happy while basking in sunshine and greenery than while shivering up north and suffering “nature deficit disorder.”

Wybong,
You certainly jump from one thing to another. I do not see what an old bogged tractor has to do with your new found friend at Mt Druitt, or how CO2 and political parties are involved. So I will disregard most and refer only to how the African lad is much better off here than in Africa.

I was right that you are a romantic and am somewhat surprised given your rural background. Us rural types usually take a more practical view of things.

I was refering to the living conditions for a tribal herdsman in Africa. Even without civil war, it has never been an easy life. living in less than weather proof huts, on dirt floors, no fridges and cooking on open fires. Sounds idilic at first glance, watching over a few scrawnny cows and driving the odd stray back to the mob. But they are the family assetts and some people drain blood regularly from them to drink, as to get the protein. If one beast is injured or maimed by predator, it will die from infection and that is a big loss.

I spent much of my young days in western NSW, so I know about heat, flies and dust. But at least we had weatherproof huts and clean water and a stove to cook on. Proper beds and transport to town if needed.

Little wonder the mortality rate is high for Africans what with the living conditions and AIDS. How can we provide reasonable education and medical facilities for these Africans. We do not seem to be able to provide sufficient for our own aboriginal communities. The UN cannot stop the civil wars let alone tackle famines in Africa.

Your new found friend is definately far better off here and if he gets really homesick he can go back, but my bet is that he will stay.

mikk,
You need a reality check if you think we can solve all Africas problems.

Reality is made by humans. If we wanted to, if we cared we could easily provide at least the basics to every single person on this planet.

That greed, self interest and indifference allows the waste, gluttony and luxury to flourish in the west while other countries full of people go hungry is shameful and a damning indictment of humanity. We are not civilised.

When millions of man hours worth of work go into a rich mans yacht or mansion while others live exposed or hungry it makes us all guilty and responsible for the system that perpetuates such injustice.

Are we all people or not? Do some people deserve more than others? This is what you are stating when you say it is not "realistic" or "not your problem". Your surrender to the supposed inevitability of African poverty is a moral cop out and reminds me of the statements made 200 years ago about aborigines and letting(wanting) them die out.