I hate to intrude on your perennial Thatcher wet-dream, Col Rouge, but - as with all politicians - her rhetoric and her performance were worlds apart.

>>I note Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were both in favour of “Smaller Government”<<

However clever her sound-bites may have been, here is the reality of Thatcherism.

Ignoring for the moment the large amounts of public property she sold off in order to appear "on message", she did nothing to reduce the overall size of government.

To help us on our way, I've found the URL that delivers all the relevant official Treasury statistics.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/A/9/pfd_210808.xls

It's a spreadsheet, by the way, so will need to be downloaded.

You can of course pick any one of a number of measures, but I think you will agree that the most telling number, from the point of view of the beleaguered taxpayer, is the percentage of GDP siphoned off in the form of taxation. You'll find that at tab C1.

The figure for "Net taxes and national insurance contributions" on her ascension to PM in 1978-9 was 33.4% of GDP

And on her departure in 1999-2000, the figure was (drum roll, please....) 36.2%

So, for all her big-noting about "small government", she actually required 8.4% more from the taxpayer in order to run her version of it.

If she did in fact run a smaller government, she needed more money to do so, which is typically considered to be "Through the Looking Glass" logic.

Just another example of how spin works in the world of politics. Col Rouge. You aren't the first to be sucked in by government propaganda, and won't be the last.

It helps, of course, that you passionately want to believe it to be true.

Which is the second rule of spin-doctoring.

After the general one about telling lies so frequently, that they turn into "truth".

Dear BAYGON,

You ask - "Do Governments actually do
anything worthwhile?"

My answer: "Public Libraries -
Something the Government does right!"

Knowledge is a renewable resource...

Foxy: Public Libraries I agree a big tick. Although if you read the piece in the Weekend OZ it seems that google's attempt to digitalise all books actually puts public libraries under threat so here it may be that governments if they fall asleep at the wheel could undo at least one good thing.
Col Rouge: it is not so much about how much I pay in taxes but what is done with those taxes - those who have done the maths have discovered that conservative governments that embark on a course of small government have actually managed to increase their bureaucracies.
Here in South Australia Friday is badge day. It basically means that a particular charity is allowed to beg in the streets for that day. I always resent badge day. I figure I pay my taxes why should a particular hospital have to beg for extra facilities? In fact when you look at the charities that need our support most of them are doing things that you would think should be paid for by our taxes.
Most folk would not object to paying taxes to support things that make this a better place - better hospitals, social services, education and the like some of us would draw the line at governments subsidising businesses so that they can remain viable. The bottom line is our taxes should be used properly not frittered away on rainforest of poorly written pamphlets.

Anyhow so far we have come up with one positive (although examinator has a possible: they do give us something to gripe about)
Any advances on one lousy positive?

Happy New Year All.

Hmm! This seems to be the topic of discussion on a lot of peoples lips at the moment. I just finished reading a 61 page pdf file titled "ARTICLES OF FREEDOM The works of the Continental Congress 2009" Any one interested can find it here. http://www.cc2009.us/images/pdf/Articles-of-Freedom.12.24.2009.pdf I also spent 12 hours over the weekend reading the comments on this document on several American political forums. They're no happy Jan!

There are a lot of angry people in the world at the moment with all forms of government. The U.S.A seems to be at crossroads on this very subject again 300 years later. Should this be a concern for us? Revolution in America would not be good for Australia. But you have to hand it to them, they have a spine!

Baygon asks: "Do governments actually do anything worthwhile?"

I guess it depends on what side of the fence you sit on. If you're on the left side waiting for the government to feed you, then your answer is probably yes. On the other hand, if you're on the right side sick and tired of being taxed(stolen from) more to feed government and the bludgers on the left, then I guess the answer is no.

At present I think the government is a waist of CO2. They do nothing but make productive peoples lives harder by robbing from the productive and giving to the unproductive. The very process that allows them to siphon off more and more for themselves in every transaction and by doing so destroy the very rights we are all born with.

I think a better question would be: What type of Government would be worthwhile to the people?

Dear BAYGON,

A big hug for your backing public libraries!
Thank You!

I've just thought of another plus that may work -

"Stop repeat offenders - don't re-elect them!"

Another silly thread. Of course governments do worthwhile things, else they're voted out or overthrown.

They provide health and education services, and provide 'safety net' welfare srevices for those who need assistance. They provide police services for internal security, and defence services against external threats. They legislate - albeit belatedly - to protect the environment and to curtail the worst excesses of large corporations. They build roads and other infrastructure so that people and commodities can move around the country. I'm quite certain that we're better off with goverments - certainly of the reasonably democratic variety that we have in Australia - than we would be without them. Anarchy doesn't really appeal to me, nor I suspect to very many Australians.

That is not to say that governments necessarily do things well, nor that everything they do is necessary. However, as they say, we do tend to get the governments we deserve.