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The Forum > General Discussion > Copenhagen Delegates: Use Green Energy and WALK HOME!

Copenhagen Delegates: Use Green Energy and WALK HOME!

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Arjay: I am with you all the way on this one!

We are all being suckered by this bunch of "Climate
Apologists" who are too dumb to see that they themselves are going to be paying through the nose for increasing implementation of more and more laws and legislation designed to totally enslave us.

If anyone reading this thinks that all this hog-wash regarding Global Warming is being directly caused by human activity, then I would strongly suggest a review of the lost freedoms that have been enacted against us all during the last 50 years, all in the name of our own protection!

It never fails to amaze me that the masses are so prepared to march behind the piper, blindly following as he leads them into the ocean of totalitarian control.

We are all born with the latent ability to think and to rationalise, but for some strange reason, so many of the sheeple allow the self-serving autocracy to do the thinking for them!

For God`s sake, can`t you people see that this whole "Climate Control and Global Warming" issue is deliberately being presented in a very dubious state of confusion, with many questionable and so far unresolved issues that need clarification before we are all committed to allowing the signing away of the future wealth of this country and as a consequence in the process being consigned to virtual slavery, simply to appease these out of control maniacs and their lust for notoriety akin to Hitler!
Posted by Crackcup, Sunday, 13 December 2009 10:13:41 AM
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Crackup,

An excellent summation.
Posted by rstuart, Sunday, 13 December 2009 11:50:33 AM
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Setting aside the quite bizarre assertion from Peter Hume and others on this thread that AGW is not real, and that we shouldn't be doing anything about it including not even erring on the side of caution if there is any doubt whatsoever, there is indeed an issue with the extravagance that is occurring at COP15.

There is a terrible lack of principle being observed by the summit delegates, to the most enormous extent it seems.

Apart from the Australian delegates costing the taxpayer far more than they should be, not least with more than a hundred of them staying in the $850 a night Kong Arthur Hotel, and presumably the same sort of extravagance occurring for delegates from all or most other countries, their green principles seem to be non-existent.

The place is heated to the extent that summer clothes are being worn. If the heating was turned down eight or ten degrees and people dressed accordingly, a much better example of energy-use efficiency would be set with no discomfort to anyone.

Recycling bins are not being used. Masses of paper documents are being printed despite access to hundreds of laptops. And so on.

You've got to ask; how on earth can the people at this summit possibly be genuine about sorting out a course of action on climate change if they so flagrantly display a culture of profligacy when they could so easily be much more frugal, without being disadvantaged at all?

And Peter I've got to ask; why are you concerned about this if you think anthropogenic climate change is bunkum??
Posted by Ludwig, Sunday, 13 December 2009 12:49:29 PM
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Crackcup,this is why the 911 issue is so important.It is about freedom of all people on this planet.At a recent conference in Sydney.I met Richard Gage the founder of Architects and Engineers for 911 truth,Prof Steven Jones Phyicist,Dr Frank Legge[Aust] who worked with Neils Harrit and 7 other scientists who found nano thermite in the dust and rubble of WTC.This is a highly sophistocated explosive that was only known to the US military.You cannot make it in a cave in Afghanistan.

The more you investigate 911 the more anomalies arise.Fire never before in the history of modern buildings has ever caused total failure of concrete and steel.Norad routinely intercept planes within 20 min once contact is lost.2 hrs passed with no interceptions.Unidentified insiders made millions on stocks of American United Airlines and those Corp affected by 911.There were warnings from 11 countries warning people of the attacks.Zbigniew Brzezinski in his book "The Grand Chessboard" " What we need is a truely massive and widely perceived direct external threat."Some of the alleged suicide hijackers are still alive and well.Even the FBI admits they don't have enough evidence on Bin Laden to convict him.
The Bush administration resisted the formation of the 911 commission for 411 days.For JFK and Pearl Harbor investigations theywere started in a week.It took 6 yrs for a sham report to be done on Building 7.Most people to this day do not know of it's existance.70% of the questions asked by the families of the deceased of 911 were not adaquately answered.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 13 December 2009 10:44:37 PM
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Horus

Peter Hume's whole rant is so full of bluster, inconsistencies and outright guff. My argument started with his first sentence; even Bob Carter has shifted his stance on 1998. Following his logic, global warming has stopped in each decade since 1960. He will also say (I guarantee) that warming will stop in the next decade too.

Or the 2nd sentence - did you not understand why "climate change" is more favoured or who popularised it?

You don't have to shout, Horus ... and you don't have to repeat yourself - I read you the first time.

Btw, what barrage of the above links are mine, what ones are you referring to? I can see OUG's (one under god) barrage of links, maybe you are confusing my post with his.

Anyway: "What fact/incident /argument convinced 'me' of AGW"?

Simple chemistry and physics really - if you put energy into a system, it heats up. If there's water around, it evaporates, condenses and falls out as rain or snow, leading to a warmer and wetter world.

It's a tad more complicated than that, but we can do the number crunching because we have all sorts of fancy techno stuff (and it's getting better all the time). We have satellites orbiting all over the place; swimming robot thingies; sensor detectors of all shapes and sizes measuring all sorts of things; and a vast amount of observed historical data, from all around the globe and from many different methodologies and sciences - all telling the same thing.

We also have very good accounting systems; we can measure the amount of energy in the system, where it comes from and where it is going. We know about the Sun, cosmic rays, magnetic flux, tilts & orbits, volcanoes, air & sea currents, albedo, latent heat, radiative properties of different types of molecules, even cow farts! Yeah, we know a heluvalot (but not everything, we never will). We do know enough to say some things with a very high level of confidence.

Cont’d
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 14 December 2009 6:18:56 AM
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Europol director..Rob Wainwright..issued the following statement:

These criminal activities..endanger the credibility of the European Union Emission Trading System..and lead to the loss of significant tax revenue for governments.

Police authorities in Belgium,Denmark,France,the Netherlands,Spain and the United Kingdom/have worked together..in what Europol calls a process..to identify and disrupt..the organised criminal structures..behind these fraud schemes.
http://www.infowars.com/organized-crime-in-charge-of-eu-carbon-trade-europol-says/

Lets see if we can explain the scheme,..using this graphic provided by Europol.

The fraud is based..on a what tax experts and investigators call as a Carroussel fraud..with missing traders...This carroussel generates money by stealing value added tax..from governments.

The first step..of the criminals..is to open a trading account with a national carbon registry,..in the name of a newly registered company.

From there,.this company buys EU emission allowances..in another country..on one of the six..official carbon exchanges..in Europe.

After that,..these emission allowances..are moved to another country, and subsequently sold..to an unregulated broker in yet another country.
This broker..then charges VAT on these transactions..but does not pay the collected VAT to the tax authorities.

Just before the tax authorities realize..that this company owes them huge amounts of VAT,..basically a period of a few months,..the company..and its owners disappear.

A new company is set up,..using other front men, to repeat the carroussel...Crime rings that run such schemes..can have several dozen or hundreds of companies..whose real owners are difficult to trace.

Basically,..this type of fraud is possible because European countries continue to disagree..on single market tax legislation...Carroussel fraud..is a constant feature in the European cross-border market..and until recently only happened with shipments of valuable goods such as iPods or flat-panel tvs,..not with carbon credits.

Europes tax commissioner,..in an interview with EUX.TV,..has estimated the damage from these carroussel frauds..at more than 60 billion euro per year..as Euroean finance minister continue to disagree..on effective measures to fight this fraud.

The Emission Trading System/system..sceme..was set up in 2005..as part of Europes efforts to curb emissions of greenhouse gases.

That topic now is..at the top of the agenda..at the UN Climate summit in Copenhagen this week and next...This unprecedented and massive fraud..is likely to prove a major embarrasment for EU negotiators.
Posted by one under god, Monday, 14 December 2009 6:20:32 AM
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