Dear pericles,

>>We have an entirely different economy today. There are no more dark satanic mills. Very few mindless, repetitive piecework jobs standing in front of a machine tool of some kind.<<

My brother-in-law was until recently employed in a certain manufacturing establishment here. His job consisted of some incredibly repetitive work. One required a sizable item lifted into position and a piece inserted with two screws applied every 7 seconds. It was common work practice for a worker to be rotated every 2 hours off this job.

Recently the company was bought out. The new owners wanted all workers to be made redundant to clear the books then the majority of them were to be re-employed at two thirds their pay. With the economy the way it is most were keen to be rehired.

My brother-in-law was put on to this particular job and informed that he was going to have to do the full 12 hour shift as part of the new work practices. He and his co-worker tried to explain the nature of the job but were not listened to. Both ended up returning far less units for the shift for which they were berated and both went to the medical section to report muscular discomfort.

Both were let go one week later when the positions were announced. Each had put in over a decade with the old company. No recourse is available.

I see our IR laws as a way of us correcting imbalances that offend our sensibilities.

I am not surprised by the posts of rechtub or arjay, but challenge both to see both sides of the issues.
OH XS arjay has never been under more threat than this.
Now our system is in NSW at least over seen by a dead useless body work cover.
It seems to me,honestly being self funded to be interested only in fines, safety is not even looked at until after an event.
Bosses bring injured workers back to work, only to sit around so insurance costs do not rise.
Arjay, you said it but surely even you do not believe workers will not have a job if OH XS is made harder?
Let us however not kid ourselves one National scheme, if fair is a better way, and is just about ready to go.
Look for information on fair work Australia, find information on the dreadful intended changes to OH XS it steels from NSW workers and imposes the worst state rules on our whole country.
Truly Labor is intent on a system in safety that is as bad as work choices, if we can not make them see how wrong it is.

With respect, csteele, that's not exactly the most reassuring rationale, at least for an employer.

>>I see our IR laws as a way of us correcting imbalances that offend our sensibilities<<

Whose, for example are "our" sensibilities?

The example you use is an interesting one. Again, purely from an employer's point of view.

If I need "a sizable item lifted into position and a piece inserted with two screws applied every 7 seconds", I would need to cost this activity into the manufacturing process, and pay accordingly.

I would also have to make sure that the necessary health and safety provisions were in place - there's little point in relying upon a manual process, if it cannot be performed effectively, consistently and reliably.

>>Both were let go one week later when the positions were announced.<<

What would be the point of continuing to employ these folk, if they were unable to perform the task? It was necessary either to employ people who could, or to find another way to perform the same function

>>Each had put in over a decade with the old company.<<

That's the biggest problem for an employer: the belief that the company owes lifetime commitment to the employee who inserts two screws into an item, however many seconds are involved.

Most employers, myself included, would not prevent any employee from leaving if they so wanted. Certainly, I wouldn't say "hey, I've employed you for ten years, you owe me, you can't leave"

That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

I can definitely see that regulations are needed to keep the workplace safe. But who is protecting whom, and from what, with arcane, time-consuming, one-sided and unnecessarily complicated IR laws?

The lawyers would hate to see them go. That on its own almost enough justification to scrap them all and start all over again.

Recognizing we live in the twentyfirst century.

Any idea that FWA fair work Australia is heaven for unions or bosses is wrong.
Both sides are contained within a set of rules not yet fully understood.
And both sides, equally, have safeguards that may become traps for the other side.
The term Enterprise Bargaining Agreement has become Enterprise Agreement.
Both sides, MUST bargain in good faith, surely an end to some bad behavior from both sides?
OHXS is and remains a concern,isolating legal people from claims in my view is criminal.
If your house burns down, your car is smashed or stolen, you can use an expert to represent you.
If you die in a workplace event, or never work again after one , your income is most likely to be on the publics purse why?
Few know in NSW the last Liberal Premier gave injured workers a better deal than Labor.
Few understand need to cut insurance costs in workers comp is seeing this federal government consider using the very worst laws from other states in Australia and inflicting them on every state.
Crippling the best state laws, not good enough but best, NSW.
Crack down on fraud, make work safe, but under this proposed law unions will be restricted in workplace safety, deaths will come, both sides do not want a system that kills more.

Under the new system any one can appoint anyone to be his/her bargaining agent, it need not be a union.
Fair enough but some silly things are underway, some small firms have pressured three even four workers to become Agents, for single people.
We Will hear and see much more about this as the system gets moving with the expiry of awards and agreements.

Dear Belly,

It makes perfect sense to introduce
uniform and equitable Industrial
Relations Standards throughout the
state.
As of 1st January 2010 - employers
and employees of the private sectors
will be under Federal regulations.

The State will have time to fall into
line or be dragged into line in due
course.

First things first - starting with the
private sector.