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The Forum > General Discussion > Tall Red Poppy Syndrome?

Tall Red Poppy Syndrome?

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The saying goes that for evil to triumph, it is simply necessary that good men do nothing; or something to that effect.

In recent days I have experienced the power and flexibility of the internet as it is available to us all here on OLO, and on other social networking sites such as Twitter. I have also begun to experience the dark side of this medium, the side we all may expect to see more of if Senator Conroy's proposals for filtering out 'unwanted content' are put into effect.

On GrahamY's topic 'The Polanski Conundrum - when is pedophilia forgivable?', I stumbled upon a Twitter campaign being waged on behalf of two UK citizens, Brian and Kerry Howes, facing extradition without even a hearing, let alone trial, to the US. This post, and the one immediately following, describes how that happened:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3093#73228

I was outraged by what I read.

So, when the Deputy-Prime Minister's October-special 'Personal Epiphany' article 'Driven by indignation at injustice' went up on the main page of OLO ( http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/ ) it was just manna from heaven for Forrest Gumpp. So I became the first poster to the comments thread, and the article appeared upon the index page. Except I didn't realize at the time that it was the lead article of the OLO October-special 'Personal Epiphany' theme.

My post lasted only around an hour.

An OLO user had complained that it was off-topic, and I guess in a way it was: it was probably the last sort of challenge the D-PM expected to run into as a response. In a moderation decision which I now understand, the challenge that was that post was taken down.

I became even more outraged.

I then spat the dummy, on my own topic, 'Power with pride going Belly-up?', here: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3050#73310 , and in subsequent posts, all of which, to GrahamY's credit, remain up.

It is what has happened since, from outside of OLO, that should alarm every Australian.

TBC
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 7:25:04 AM
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Continued

November was on my mind as I did my dummy-spit: the dates of the 5th, the 10th, and, most of all the 11th, particularly so. As I spat away, the well known old poem from the First World War, 'In Flanders' Fields', came to mind. It seemed to me that with Remembrance Day coming, what was happening to the Howes' in the UK, and had already happened to Hew Griffiths, an Australian, was the direct antithesis of what those who we remember on that day fought for.

So I wrote the poem 'Ode to McCrae', which can be seen in my dummy-spit thread here, if you don't already have it up:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3050#73526

Needless to say, I had open in a tab as I wrote it a resource that belongs to the entire Australian community, the Australian government web page 'The Red Poppy',

http://www.defence.gov.au/army/traditions/documents/inflandersfield_1.htm

I had just tweeted a tinyURL link to this page to Brian_Howes, who is currently under house arrest in the UK, and who, interestingly, like Hew Griffiths, is into computers. He, when he is not presumably supplying crystal meth precursor chemicals around the world (if we are to believe the Yanks), is a computer engineer. Anyway, I immediately tested the link after posting it, as I am wont to do.

The Red Poppy page was blocked! An 'Error 404' notice now displayed. The page remained unavailable for the remainder of the day and until some time the next morning. Curious that all this had happened just at the time links were being supplied to Brian Howes. Had an Australian government web page dealing with Army history suddenly become 'unwanted content'?

The significance of the blocking may have resided in the deterrent effect of non-working links upon web surfers. The significance of the 'Ode to McCrae' lay in its possible usefulness in satirizing, within the UK, where reporting of the Howes case in the press is restricted by law, the provisions of its one-sided Extradition Act 2003.

Brian Howes claims he has been under electronic surveillance for years.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 9:51:09 AM
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forrest we all been under survelance scince ww2...when govt made thec outlandish claim to be abble tyo read all the international mail..at the them midway point...in the time it took to refeul

see this ability continued after the war...mauil is now able to be auto read as it goes through the mail system

its no co-incidence that google is mainly owned/controlled by the security agencies...every word we type is read in real time...even our phones transcribe and word search in live time...

the joke about ranson callers getting...not traced...because they hang up quickly...is simply speaking a deception...in reality the exchanges track every call..before its even conected

in short censure is possable
and if its possable then censure we get
freespeech means nothing..its only words..they give lipservice to

its hardly tall poppy..its about control
control our speech...control our thought

we live in the end times...most of what people think to know has been twisted..by spin and buzz...but also censure and popularist media complicity...now they have been gotten round...but net [web?] 2 will soon fix that

i cant download my music for free...[my lps paid for their production..]..vidios take hours to download...the enron system..of short supply..means people are willing to avoid the artificial restriction..for a price..

meaning they get that the rest of the sheeple dont get
many of us dont get it either...but those who censure have a fear..thats what i love about grayham...hes mainly fearless...just publishing this proves it

thats not to asume your eforts...no doudt you thought about this post for a long time..getting it egsactly right...thus cdensure for you means half a day wasted...i just make it up in five minutes..thus dont have much attatchments to my vents

but then if taken down it makes further ventings/forces yet other isues seeking expression to be expressed...

but be warned the phycology of it is well known...simply by forbidding...we yearn to fixate on an aryificial construct..created by the censor...

maybe to get us distracted away from other fixations..but then maybe not...glad you finally were allowed to speak freely..[and fully]
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 10:43:42 AM
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It's not clear what you're saying, FG. Can you summarise?
Posted by Sancho, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 10:52:33 AM
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The point I am making is that an Australian government web page, and a very innocuous one at that, was blocked during real-time electronic surveillance of a Twitter communication between myself and Brian Howes. It happened right before my eyes as I was endeavouring to give him some links that maybe might help him get his message out from under the blanket of censorship that prevents significant press coverage of his situation in the UK.

How come a .gov.au site gets blocked in Australia?

You would think that only the Australian government could effect that. I hardly think the Australian government would have been electronically watching ME. Therefore I do not understand how, with any propriety, this .gov.au site could be so quickly and effectively blocked as an outcome of US and/or UK electronic surveillance of Howes IN THE UK.

What does that say as to the extent of fear of discovery of the probable lack of substance to the US extradition request that might result from Howes merely having access to these innocuous Australian sites?

If there was ever substance to the US allegations, then Australian law enforcement authorities should have long had the evidence that backed the charges shared with them, as the US allege Howes knowingly supplied Australian drug dealers with crystal meth precursor chemicals, the innocent supply of which from the UK (where Howes was based) broke no UK law.

If the AFP had such intelligence shared with it, Australia should be seeking Howes extradition here. Such a request from Australia would trump the US process in Britain, and result in at the least an extradition hearing at which prima facie evidence justifying Howes' extradition could be examined.

It is just this elementary judicial process that Howes is denied with respect to a US request because of the one-sided provisions of the Extradition Act 2003 (UK). A request for extradition to Australia, on the other hand, does not fall under such one-sided provisions, and at least the Howes' would then get a hearing.

Censorship has been attempted while promoting this.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 11:56:07 AM
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This is the link to Brian Howes' tweet confirming that he has formally requested, at the Australian embassy in the UK, to be extradited, along with his wife, to Australia in connection with the allegation claimedly made in the US information laid against him in the UK, that he has knowingly supplied methamphetamine precursor chemicals to illegal drug dealers in Australia:

http://twitter.com/Brian_Howes/status/4868875208

The significance of the request is that it may become the basis of a test of the integrity of the information laid against the Howes', and of the sincerity of US authorities in laying it.

It is my understanding that drug law enforcement intelligence is routinely and fully shared between the US and Australia. It is therefore to be expected that Australian authorities should have had, from the very first, the drug intel as to the Howes' alleged supplying of precursor chemicals to Australian criminals.

It would seem to me that if the appropriate Australian authorities, which I would assume to be the Australian Federal Police, actually have such shared intelligence, and that some sort of criminal conspiracy involving the Howes' existed, that the AFP could and should be laying the appropriate charges, and Australia be seeking the Howes' extradition.

If, on the other hand, there has been no such drug intel received over the years by the AFP in respect of the Howes, then the sincerity of the relevant US authorities (presumably the USDEA) in discharging their information sharing obligations comes into question. Likewise does the substance of the US extradition request to the UK government, on the basis of which Brian Howes has been held in detention, also come into question.

In matters involving extradition, governments should be expected to behave as model litigants. If there is no intel from the USDEA in the hands of the AFP as to the Howes' involvement in anything that would be criminal in Australia, then the US authorities seeking the Howes' extradition had no business smearing the Howes' with allegations of involvement in supplying drug criminals in Australia with precursor chemicals.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Thursday, 15 October 2009 7:48:47 AM
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Dear Forrest,

I don't know if this will help - but there is a
petition that is available that posters can sign
if after finding out the details of the Brian and
Kerry Howes case they want to do something to
assist:

petition.co.uk/stop_the_extradition_of_brian_and_kerry_howes_who_have_broken_no_laws
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 15 October 2009 9:26:43 AM
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Thanks for that Foxy. Just in case you are not aware, with respect to links, if you want them to appear in an OLO post as clickable, you have to type in the 'http://' prefix or the OLO software will not recognise it as a link. Thus:

http://petition.co.uk/stop_the_extradition_of_brian_and_kerry_howes_who_have_broken_no_laws

Thanks again for your posting of Kevin Gilbert's 'The Pen is Mightier than the Sword'. Do you know when it was written? And can you post here the details of the anthology from which you drew it? I have a follower on Twitter who may well enjoy it if I re-post it here. Its currently very apposite to the real subject of this thread, in my opinion.

Isn't it sad to see the extent to which Britain has sunk with respect to freedom of the press, when one receives a Tweet like this:

"Oh by the way that story I just sent you about the police and oink.cd is under sec11 reporting restrictions without explanation [in the UK]."

Its from a Twitter Direct Message (DM) from Brian Howes, and is made in reference to a news story about a police force in the UK being allegedly used to effectively force a crackdown on music piracy on behalf of the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) and the British Phonographic Industry (BPI).

It seems Brian Howes real 'crime' is that he may have revealed improprieties as to the manner in which police may have been doing this. If anyone is interested they can read about it here:

http://extradition.org.uk/2008/09/26/those-oinking-cleveland-piracy-cops/

It is my understanding that 'extradition.org.uk' is effectively Brian Howes' self-hosted blog. Describing himself he says: " I really am a simple computer engineer."

The whole saga is starting to look more and more like that of Hew Griffiths, the computer hacker extradited from Australia by the Howard government in 2007, even though he could, and should, have been tried here.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/hew-who-how-an-unsung-aussie-ended-up-in-us-jail/134134.aspx?storypage=0

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/legal/20091001-australian-inventor-loses-445-million-microsoft-battle.html
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Friday, 16 October 2009 7:42:55 AM
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Dear Forrest,

The Anthology out of which I gave you the Kevin
Gilbert poem, "The Pen is Mightier Than The Sword,"
I got out of one that I had compiled while at uni
on Anti-Nuclear Australian Poetry.

I used a wide variety of sources at the time,
especially Anthologies of Aboriginal Poetry -
selecting poems that I thought
suited my topic. Unfortunately, I can't give you
the precise titles of what I used as I've discarded
much of the paperwork. It was quite a few years ago.
I kept that particular poem - because I loved it so much.
However, you should be able to trace Gilbert's poem
in an anthology of Aboriginal poetry. I vaguely recall
one called "Inside Black Australia."

Not sure if this helps though.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 16 October 2009 6:55:13 PM
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I post this here in hope that viewers will particularly take and hold the first four lines. All other imagery is theirs as they read on.

"The Pen is Mightier Than The Sword"
by Kevin Gilbert.(1933 - 1993)

" The pen is mightier than the sword
but only when
it sows the seeds of thought
in minds of men
to kindle love and grow
through the burnt page
destroyed by huns and vandals in their rage

The sword in russet hues lies mouldering
its sharp and shiny edge now dulled by peace
and blood-lust sated between customers
like some old time worn harried whore
well past her prime
awaiting some brute hand to wield her hate

The bugler sounds, the drummer sounds his beat
bright swords refurbished tilt to marching feet
gay ribands, uniforms and epaulets
entrap the eye, the soul till madness sway
them to the dance of death the piper plays

The pens in great tragedienne lines extol
the meritorious lie, the grand excuse
justification for this carnivore
called man who can't evolve in his estate
clothed and fed, his universities
and halls of learning yet avail him nought
the jungle beasts enact the same stage plays
one kind, one king, one death the same
differing nought for death wears the same cloak
regardless of technology or sport."
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Friday, 16 October 2009 9:32:03 PM
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Dear Forrest,

Dorothy Green wrote in, "Imagining The Real":

"No one has the right to exhort writers to write
on certain subjects or take up particular moral
stances. But if they love their art, we can expect
them to be on the side of life rather than death,
on the side of being, rather than non-being,
to prefer the beauty of this planet to its
desecration, and to use fiction to reveal truths.

We need above all to fall in love with this planet,
which, as far as we know, is the only one carefully
balanced to sustain human life without assistance
from somewhere else.

In the most destructive age in history, the word
"creative" is more mindlessly bandied about than ever
before; a fact we need to ponder as writers. The truth
is that human beings came into a world prepared for
them. If we blow it up, we cannot hope to put it
together again.

We cannot "create" something out of nothing: even the
greatest artist did not invent colour, nor the greatest
musician sound, nor the greatest writer speech.

All we can do is discover, imitate, rearrange-or-destroy.
Our worst illusion is that we might return to the state of
primitive man. But he did not have polluted soil,
poisoned streams, irradiated game and vegetable foods."

There are still those who cannot understand why a
US President who encourages peaceful solutions, seeks
reductions in nuclear arsenals and has made "extraordinary
efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation
between peoples," why, he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 17 October 2009 1:11:42 PM
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Foxy,

Perhaps the award of the Nobel Peace Prize to Barack Obama at this juncture is more an expression of an earnest desire to see him act effectively as a catalyst for creative change in the way the US does business, than recognition of anything as yet achieved by him. Could it be that those who hope for so much from his presidency have acted thus to imbue him with this status, in order that he may have more clout with those at home who are seen as needing to change their direction and methods of dealing with the rest of the world?

So far as strengthening international diplomacy goes, a very good start to that could be made by having the US Justice administration show more respect for the established legal processes of mature and stable democracies of the like of Switzerland, the UK, Australia, and France. Obama has an enormous task ahead of him in arresting the momentum that various US agencies like the DEA have built up in recent years, a momentum that has seen them cutting right across provisions of the US constitution as much as disrespecting the established jurisprudence of its staunchest allies.

The Howes' extradition from the UK, a major focus of this thread, is a case in point. So is that of the uncontested 2007 extradition of Hew Griffiths from Australia.

The sheer one-sidedness of the Extradition Act 2003 (UK) is an utter disgrace.

The pressures of the extra-Constitutional demands of US justice administration have undoubtedly significantly contributed to that profound legislative betrayal of its own citizenry by the UK Parliament. Obama needs to rein-in the overwheening expectation that with respect to extraditions that are all really ultimately to do with sustaining vested interests in IT intellectual property, what the US (justice administration) wants, the US gets.

Clearly, the poem 'Ode to McCrae', seeming attempts at the suppression of the background to which provided the reason for starting this thread, have cut close to the bone in making this point. As may have 'En Suisse du Jour' with President Sarkozy.

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2009/10/17/sarkozy-polanski.html#socialcomments

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3093#73927
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Sunday, 18 October 2009 1:43:26 PM
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Dear Forrest,

Only time will tell,
and history will judge.

Fingers-crossed that the right
choices are made on behalf of us all.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 October 2009 6:39:23 PM
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Foxy wrote, in her post of Saturday, 17 October 2009 at 1:11:42 PM , quoting Dorothy Green in, "Imagining The Real":

"No one has the right to exhort writers to write
on certain subjects or take up particular moral
stances. ....................................."

How absolutely astounding to see Fractelle attempting to do exactly that in this post to BrianHowes' topic 'Extradition without evidence from the UK / US':

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3148#74306

I wonder whether she realizes that all she will be seen to be doing is standing in the way of Brian Howes getting a hearing? His case is difficult enough for him to carry with a posting limit of 4 X 350 words max posts in 24 hours.

Granted I am in communication with him off-OLO via the Ubuntu Forums private messaging facility, and can perhaps carry some of the posting-response load that his self-evidently challenging topic is going to generate on OLO. Not only are there already more questions being elicited than there are posts available to answer them, but some posters are clearly not even reading some of the answers and/or explanations that have already been given.

As an example, Fractelle has suggested, in her post of Wednesday, 21 October 2009 at 12:24:25 PM, that "the Howes case .... would be better served with appropriate publicity in Britain.". She just doesn't get it, does she? The press is totally censored in Britain with respect to at least this extradition matter. The Howes' issue can get no publicity in Britain. Period!

As there are going to be many complexities of this case unable to be explained in limited posts of just 350 words maximum each, I would observe that interested posters could register on the Ubuntu Forums and, maintaining their anonymity, seek fuller explanation of some points. I post there as Forrest Gumpp. Not trying to divert anyone away from the Forum, but that technique will enable the thread to maintain its focus on the Howes' issues.

Others remain free to widen the discussion to other topics. Obstructing the focus of that thread is as good as censorship.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 5:55:25 PM
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Forrest Gumpp: << The press is totally censored in Britain with respect to at least this extradition matter. The Howes' issue can get no publicity in Britain. Period! >>

Rubbish, Forrest.

"Couple begin extradition battle" BBC News 28 January 2008

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/7214403.stm

"Extradition battle couple on bail" BBC News 4 September 2007

<< SEE ALSO
Couple fight US drug extradition
26 Apr 07 | Tayside and Central
Couple 'at centre' of drugs ring
31 Jan 07 | Tayside and Central
Couple in court over drug supply
31 Jan 07 | Tayside and Central
Arrests in US drug supply inquiry >>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/6977815.stm

"Extradition appeal for drugs duo" BBC News 4 March 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/7923349.stm

"Suicide warning over extradition" 17 September 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/8261626.stm

And the Herald Scotland:

"Amateur pyrotechnics couple face US-extradition hearing in January" 27 Dec 2008

http://www.heraldscotland.com/amateur-pyrotechnics-couple-face-us-extradition-hearing-in-january-1.826538

"The long arm of American law" 6 Sep 2008

http://www.heraldscotland.com/the-long-arm-of-american-law-1.826366

The Scotsman:

"MacAskill signs extradition order" 31 May 2008

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/MacAskill-signs-extradition-order.4138598.jp

Here's a fascinating one from the Sunday Mail, published on June 21 2009:

"Drugs probe extradition Scot accused of sex attacks on six-year-old girl"

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/uk-and-international-news/2009/06/21/drugs-probe-extradition-scot-accused-of-sex-attacks-on-six-year-old-girl-78057-21459748/

Etc etc etc.

Seems to me that the case has been getting quite a bit of coverage in the UK media, but perhaps not of the sort that Mr Howes really wants.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 10:58:03 PM
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Forrest, I've been waiting for you to acknowledge your blatant error, but other than a half-hearted reference on one of Brian Howes' threads, you haven't said a contrite word.

A tad impolite, don't you think? You know - bad form for a gentleman and all that.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Sunday, 25 October 2009 8:34:45 PM
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