<<air is a fluid>>
Umm no it isn't, it's a gas, year 10 physics

Mikk, point taken. Two things lead me to the conclusion that high temperature caused high pressere. Firstly, in a closed system, higher temperature does cause high pressure, howerever in this case we have an open system where the volume of the gas increases and hence weighs less. Secondly, I'v always always associated high pressures with good weather and high temperatures. My question to the BOM still stands and has nothing to do with their formation, ie, high pressures are slow moving and usually very big and hence can impede the movement of low rain bearing low pressures.

Banjo, I did a little research into why the nullabor, etc is so dry and found the following.

There are four main factors that contribute to the dryness of the Australian landmass.

Cold ocean currents off the west coast
Low elevation of landforms
Dominance of high-pressure systems
Shape of the landmass

Low rate of evaporation from this very cool body of water result in little evaporation occurring. As a result, rain clouds are sparsely formed and very rarely do they form long enough for a continuous period of rain to be recorded. Australia's arid/semi-arid zone extends to this region. The absence of any significant mountain range or area of substantial height above sea level, results in very little rainfall caused by orographic uplift. In the east the Great Deviding Range limits rain moving into inland Australia. Australia has a compact shape and no significant bodies of water (like I'm proposing)penetrate very far inland. This is important because it means that moist winds are prevented from penetrating to inland Australia, keeping rainfall low.

Very good Willie.

<<high pressures are slow moving and usually very big and hence can impede the movement of low rain bearing low pressures.>>

That is exactly what they do and the high pressure belt above Australia acts in exactly this way. Hindering tropical lows and the monsoon from the north and also polar lows from the south.

Nice work with the research and hopefully you now understand why the centre of Australia is so arid. Combine that with the vast age of the land in the west half of our continent (oldest in the world in WA) and the fact that it has been worn flat and leeched of all nutrients and you can see why farms, growing crops etc there is just never going to happen.

As i pointed out before if filling lake eyre produced more rainfall then it would have been found at times when the lake was full but many studies have found no such increase.

www.bom.gov.au/amm/docs/2004/hope.pdf

BOM research scientist Pandora Hope has done work specifically on Lake Eyre's effect on eastern Australian rainfall and said there was no specific reason water in Lake Eyre could influence weather patterns elsewhere.

"We have done some modelling, taking out the effect of a La Nina, to see what impact evaporation has on rainfall patterns, and it does not lead to greater rainfall," she said.

"The evaporation does lead to localised cooling and higher humidity, but this is only in the immediate area, basically above the Lake's surface.

"One of the main problems is that Lake Eyre generally sits under a high pressure system and the lows would not be near enough to harvest the moisture."

http://fw.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/general/will-a-full-lake-eyre-bring-rain-to-southern-aus/1414085.aspx?storypage=0

I'm afraid this thread has been hijacked into a discussion about creating water by changing the weather over this region. The only water creation I am proposing for these new sustainable societies would come from SOLAR THERMAL DESAL. Any other water that maybe created would be just icing on the cake.

Modeling and the observation that no weather changes occured when the lake filled proves nothing conclusive. Maybe the water has to be around for a number of years or longer before even local rain occurs, we just don't know as we have never tried anything like this.

I am proposing many smaller lakes, not one or two huge lakes. As I explained before the salt in these lakes could be removed by turning of the water supply and cleaning up the excessive salt.

Lake Eyre is not that far from the national grid at Port Augusta, so solar thermal and solar hot pond electric generation would be the major new prime business for these areas. Unlike the Pilbra, I am suggesting sustainable housing accompanied by controlled settlement would make these areas self sustaining. A controlled population would be achieved by avoiding excessive division of land as seen on the east coast, ie, a one acre block would be the standard. Land release would be exclusively thru' the SA state government to avoid greedy land developers who would attempt to push the price of worthless land sky high, and so that the money paid for a house/land package would go into the cost of the sustainability of the house.

The two pumping stations located at either end of Lake Torrens that would be need to start the siphon would produce more that 10 MW of free electricity for a 3 meter diameter pipe once the siphon started. This would be ample to run a FREE light rail system for the developments. All this, along with collecting any fresh water from floods in the north would eventually create a much wetter region than presently exists. With the coming of fire storms due to erratic weather, these areas maybe a god send.

One problem with Australia's ever expanding population growth is the future provision of food.It is a well known fact that only 10% of Australia's land is arable i.e. suitable for food production, yet Local Governments continue to approve sub-development of land which was once used for food production, e.g. Redland Bay area of Brisbane rich red volcanic soil, where the States potatoes and strawberries were once grown, now all but replaced by houses. I am quite sure that one doesn't have to look very hard to find similar things happening in other areas. I would have thought Local Governments of all persuasion would have done the exact opposite and placed restrictions on land use for this very reason. We all know how easily it is for humans to participate in corrupt activities particularly when money is king.

Two very good books which address this very subject are by Author Professor Jared Diamond, "Germs,Guns ans Steel" and "Collapse".Why did the society on Easter Island collapse and Haiti in a near state of collapse?

I asked a councilor from the Gold Coast City Council whether town planning has capped the number of dwellings in our area.The answer was a resounding NO. As we continue to sprawl, there are glimpses of infrastructure renewal but is that enough to sustain the ever increasing population growth.

Where will we in this country look to for our food requirements and drinking water if we continue to grow unchecked?
Erik

WILLIE, Individual, Banjo and Ces- nice to see some other people who are making some practical (and people-friendly) suggestions to spread out the population counter urban sprawl!
(which doesn't include forcing city people to live in smaller, crampier or shittier environments to make room- or forcing neighbouring towns to take the weight like so many other people lazily throw out).

I think that creating new cities inland with sustainable and inviting infrastructure to encourage emmigration from the crowded coast, and selling the empty housing blocks back to farming properties is definitely the ideal proposal, and quite achievable so long as the difficult measures are fulfilled (which your suggestions definitely create some circumstances definitely worth considering).

The other major problems are providing motivation to other parts of society (cultural attractiveness and business class). The major problem in Australia is the vast majority of business/commercial centers are in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and the Gold Coast, and putting to much pressure to live around these cities (not to mention the majority of Australian cities have pretty lame shops, bars, restaurants etc, so moving outside the big cities means giving up a huge amount of commercial perks.

I think any cultural attractions would be achieved by gradually encouraging various food/restaurant/clothing/product chains to open up (perhaps a financial incentive- it's not like the government hasn't done it for less), so people are actually moving to a proper metropolis and not just a dull colony. A new-business creation grant for these specific cities is also an option.
For businesses- if REAL ESTATE could be encouraged to start up, then half of the problem is solved- banks will soon follow.

It seems in Australia the biggest motivator for business of all kinds is tourism. If you advertised "Come see Australia's new hi-tech cities of the future" to the tourism industry world-wide it might create a considerable amount of excitement.

Mikk, you commented in response to Willie's proposal that, "..the vast age of the land in the west half of our continent (oldest in the world in WA) and the fact that it has been worn flat and leeched of all nutrients and you can see why farms, growing crops etc there is just never going to happen."

I just don't like the word, 'never'. It's fraught with risk, I personally try to NEVER use it. Besides, I think you're just wrong. It's been done before in other countries, why not here?

Willie's idea is a beauty and with all the potential for tourism, watersports, fishing and the rest, I don't see why the principles of Permaculture could not be applied. There are many accounts from around the world where seemingly arid, unusable land has been turned into viable agricultural land or even forests.

Creating sustainable environs by recycling everything that is used. Read more on Permaculture and Bill Mollison, Peter Andrews, Jeff Lawton and others here...
http://www.permaculture.org and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture , there are plenty of other good sites out there about this subject. Have a Captain Cook for yourself...

Now imagine that, travelling to the middle of Australia to do a spot of fishing and a bit of camping in the local forest then getting caught in an unexpected downpour! Everything in the towns powered by solar and geothermal energy, water from DESAL, organic food from permaculture and hydropoic farms - it's the way of the future!

I think with the right top down planning and the right team of people who know what is needed to make the project succeed, it could just be the brightest suggestion as to what to do about our rising population, new immigrants, power generation and water production.

Imagine if, as well as pumping the saltwater from the ocean they built or dug huge reservoirs and pumped SA sewerage inland as well and turned it into organic fertiliser to enrich the soil. It would solve two huge problems at once. Never say never!