Hmm. Is StevenImeyer a KMB sock-puppet, or is he having us on with the same schtick?

Sure. He's a non-religious secularist who's just massively impressed with Catholicism and viciously hateful of Islam.

Perhaps there's a bridge in Sydney he'd like to sell us, too!

How compelling can a religion be if its members feel they need to lie in order for anyone to take them seriously?

Can't possibly be a "gene" for religiosity, lets look further.

Unlike speculative "gods", parents actually do exist. Young of many species benefit greatly from cleaving close to their parents (and similar caring/authoritarian figures). It is reasonable to assume there are genes which collectively contribute to this behaviour, and that these genes have some variability within the population.

What happens when possessors of strong forms of these behaviours grow up? We don't *need* bellybuttons after birth, yet they linger. Similarly, the desire for a greater parent can clearly linger past the age at which, historically, parents may be dead. I believe this is part of the biological basis of why religion exists.

It gets exploited by all sorts. Governments who want us to trust totally and obey unquestioningly, controlling personalities who look for/marry/mulct the gullible, churches wanting pretty much what governments do, military training. Almost all of these can not only to some extent control reward and punishment but (often irrationally) get to define what is desirable. There is usually a present authority figure (constable/priest/mother/teacher/Sargeant) who is a little amenable to persuasion, and a bigger usually absent one that isn't (judge/principal/father/officer/"god").

All invoke father figures and all attempt to impart the impression that this father figure can fix your problem if they want, or punish if you are overreaching.

Religion just carries this to extremes and couches it it in absolutes. We are expected to react to religious bogeymen as if "daddy" really will come home *this time*. For instance: the Second Book of Kings, verses 23 and 24 are a classic revenge fantasy. Clearly written by a disgruntled priest who *had* been mocked. The sicko who wrote it just wishes the bears *had* killed the kids and hopes his next sermon will "teach them a lesson". It is a childish conception of a childish god, anyone who *isn't* above it isn't worth discussing the topic with, they are a sheep to be shorn, and pastor will, have no doubt.

The thing to look for is genes for hierarchical behavior.

Rusty

Steven

<< Fractelle, LOL

Where do you think this thread is REALLY headed? >>

Somehow you are going to 'show' that Muslims are breeding faster than Christians and we all should be afraid, very afraid.

I don't get involved in religion, usually, but with a title like this one, I just had to put my two bobs worth in.

Now there is also growing evidence of men becomming weaker beings, in general', often growing up to be whimps, rather than young men and leaders and, this may well be a cause as to why so many are turning to religion as they are incapable of making a mark within society and they ultimately are being over ruled by their FEMALE partners.

Much of this may have to do with the fact that so many today are influenced by females as they are from 'mum only' families.

By all means, believe what you wish and follow whoever, or should I say, whatever mythical being you like. But as long as our future men continue to turn to their partners for strength, then what else can one expect.

Now before all you feminists get up on your high horse, no I don't hate women, nor do I regard them as weaker. It's just that todays man is not the man of yesteryear and as a result has found himself in a non authoritive role within society.

Imagine where we would be today if our forefathers had grown up like the men of today, then set off to do battle for the saviour of our nation.

Look out if we ever have a world war 3!

Sancho,

KMB?

Sorry old son, you'll have to help me out there. I looked in acronymfinder.com. The closest I came to finding anything relevant was "Keep Mecklenburg Beautiful".

If you truly believe I'm "massively impressed with Catholicism" then I'd like a bit of whatever it is you're smoking.

Is being "viciously hateful" of Islam worse than being "viciously hateful" of Christianity?

Truth is I'm not too fond of either.

Fractelle,

They are and perhaps we should be. However that is NOT what I had in mind when I started this thread. I'm simply pointing out that demography seems to be moving against secularists like me.

Most secularists believe that history is moving in our direction. I used to believe that too. But the facts MAY be saying otherwise. Religions may yet triumph.

Or, perhaps we can find a modus vivendi though, looking at past history, I'm not too hopeful.

Rusty,

All you say about religions is true. But somehow more and more people seem to be believing the myths. And not just in Western societies. Go figure.

Rehctub

Consider that religion may have conferred an evolutionary advantage under primitive conditions. After all, who is likely to fight more fiercely for the best hunting grounds? A tribe of atheists? Or a tribe with warriors that believe that when they die they get a reward in the after life?

Perhaps religion is a consequence of brains better adapted to the Pleistocene than the 21st Century.

All,

Consider that maybe, just maybe, the comfortable beliefs you have been harbouring about the direction in which society is moving are not entirely accurate. Maybe, just maybe, history is going to discomfit us

I always love bit of junk science...

A dog has 4 legs. My cat has 4 legs. Therefore my cat is a dog.

Without adjusting for contributing factors this sort of data is misleading at the best of times.
Put twins - an atheist and a believer into a carefully controlled environment where all contibuting factors are exactly the same and when you have some results, I'll happily listen. Otherwise there are just too many other factors to consider.

But, here's a story that's sure to get some replies. And for those devoutly religious I don't intend any offence, just humour.
Think back to a simple lady named Mary and her husband Joseph. One day a very cute and charming suitor paid Mary a visit while Joseph was out of town on business.
When Joseph came back, imagine his surprise at his wife, with child. Mary thought quickly and came up with the best story she could think of before Joseph got too suspicious. Immaculate conception. And well, from that point you know the rest...........