Headlines again and again tell of true horror.
Inflicted on kids, and of our failure as a country to fix it.
30 years a sex slave, just one headline, todays reason to cry we must do something.
Priests and ministers of religion a seemingly endless stream of convictions when will it end?
DOCs or what ever group sending children to sex offenders to be looked after.
This has to stop we can put a man on the moon turn salt water into fresh but we can not protect our children.

“30 years a sex slave, just one headline, todays reason to cry we must do something.”

Hey Belly I went and read a news report on it – health officials saying they aren’t the “child defect police”. I would have thought an autopsy might have included some DNA testing.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26090219-421,00.html

“DOCs or whatever group sending children to sex offenders to be looked after.”

There appears to be more of a reluctance to deal with foster parents that actually defend and try and advocate for the children than there is to place kids with another sort of foster parent.

Any regular foster parent knows it is best to shut up than cause any fuss. Something I wish someone told me, maybe at foster training or something.

I believe Life Without Barriers in my area hits the headlines more than most NGO’s for having sex offenders and abusers in their ranks. After contacting the Ombudsman and the NSW Children’s Guardian I could see no evidence and they could give no explanation of who polices anything but an NGO’s policy. Neither could tell me if it was even possible to remove an NGO’s accreditation in this state. NGO's accrediting NGO's - brilliant NSW.

Any child you know to be suffering right now in fostercare and no one will help them, no one will listen and no one will act. Witnessing a child hurt physically or emotionally “post placement” and not being able to get anyone to help is, well – it’s crap, you can’t get it out of your head and no way can you fully understand this refusal by government to listen.

I can report daily a child being uncared for and it will be ignored every single day.

“This has to stop we can put a man on the moon turn salt water into fresh but we cannot protect our children.”

The grownups are busy, climbing ladders or one gender sniping at the other. They’re busy turning salt water to fresh and putting men on the moon.

Who are these 'sex children' from the title?

He eats, he shoots and he leaves!

this area is one of the mesiest areas of govt malfeasance...it is well known that party loyalty is ensured by acces to children...by those in high places...it is well known that many foster parents run special child supply ops...where kids are delivered to certain judges/polititions/public servants..via com car or taxie SERVICE

reminding me of the other carr..or the downer..and the many other outed...the issue is so messy..with so many levels..up to snuff movies..or raping of children soon after birth..as recorded in the talmud

there are sickoes that feel they get special powers despoiling a childs innocence..virginity..

even the peverse ritual of the circumsision...as if gods handiwork isnt good enough...it has been reported that there are many child perverts out there...but calling them pedophile is a joke..it means litterally..child lover...lol..who dont love kids..perverts they are

but the media obsession..with it..at this time...thats the worry..what is it that now we are talking about it..what worse dont they want us talking about..personally...forget locking them up...neuture them..then move them to a child free zone...its time to stop being nice about this issue

watch 730 report last night

the current system isnt working...if they..go quiet...thats like when kids go quiet...

you better be seeing how come..they are being soooo quiet..they just might have a..secret source..captive

ps..some botox on the qld pervert ...who squinches his face so media typically...giving us the impression pervert..with bad looks do this...but there are so many ..the typecast might be intended

some botox to relax..those extreemly..distorting face-muscles..might make him..look..more normal...and not..make him out to be.such a threat..its fine to watch these perverts...but the media stunt thing has become a distraction...im feeling sorry for the ppprick

...we dont have any proof he has re offended..but there is ample proof..of those who are..time to round them up...or severly audit their past activities....we have the terror legislation..use it on the real terrorists..running child pervert franchise/via state..now agency

I'd personally rather not rely on government authorities to regulate and protect every aspect of my or my children's lives.

I think community and family have a far greater role and responsibility in better standards of community behaviour. How exactly that is achieved I don't know.

Didn't any family of friends notice anything in 30 years?
Didn't anyone wonder who the father of these children were?

It doesn't surprise me that when these things happen, the neighbour "had suspicions". The guy in the US was known as "creepy" in his neighbourhood.

Yet we rely on a govt official sitting at a desk maybe 100km away, with no knowledge of these communities to keep that child protected.

As an aside:

For me there is a sad (but unfortunately necessary) outcome of these sick individuals. As a male, with young kids, and an avid photographer, I will either be prohibited from taking photos of my kids at school events, or will be looked on with suspicion if I take my camera to the beach or a park to get some family snaps.

I have some lovely, irreplaceable photos of me as a toddler at the beach with my family, and at school athletics carnivals. Unfortunately because of a few sick individuals, my kids will probably not be able to have those same memories to look back on.

I know how you feel burbs.
My husband and I loved taking photos of our daughter as a child, but he became worried about taking photos of her again in public after a woman gave him a mouthful at the beach once for trying to photograph her kids while photographing our daughter!

It is very sad that many loving male relatives are seen as potential child sex-abusers because of the despicable actions of a few sickos in our community.

Oneundergod- "...forget locking them up...neuture them..then move them to a child free zone...its time to stop being nice about this issue." Absolutely!

Unfortunately, chemically (or physically) castrating these individuals will not prevent them from accessing child porn sites, thus creating a lucrative market for child abuse.

Often the sexual abuse is not so much physical sexual abuse, but the need to control or dominate a child by using other suggestive means, like books or videos etc. Children will be just as damaged by these actions.

I haven't heard of anyone actually prevented from ever offending again unless jailed for life. Has anyone else?

A gold star for Houellebecq!

I helped my uncle, Jack, off his horse.

We neglect commas at our peril.

30 years of missing the welfare of a child, who became a woman, equals failure.
Some one highlighted the wombat dads but the truth is worse.
So many mums should never have kids drugs grog and too many wrong men drive some to abandon children.
We know, those of us who care, police often ignore claims about children in danger.
And we know also they and every one who has the task of looking after us ignores pleas for help.
We are about to see our country say sorry for yesterdays crimes against kids in care.
How often must we say it
Every ten years every day?
Or will we act, I have My doubts yes we hound that man, we have talked about him before from our towns.
But why is he free?
was his punishment equal to his victims pain?
Julie I know you care for kids as much as I do.
But mate some kids are in the hands of drugys who want the cash .
My country should be ashamed.

G'Day All,
Belly they will never stop the abuse Why?
Because of the drugies alcoholics drunks etc.
Why are the above in Society?
Because of the abuse that has been perpertrated on so many before today. Drugs & Alcohol is an escape from their own prison & a way to "self medicate" to ease their own pain
To accept the Senate Committee Report, Stolen Generations both Indigenious & White, Wards of The State, Out of Home Care Children label it what you like I prefer "Stolen Innocence" to group all together as one. There is now that many of these people through our Society that depression affects near all families in Australia.
How are we going to do this?
Easy Attachment & Bonding if a family is affected to such an extent that children are forcibily removed then Society is to blame.
To fix a problem you MUST fix the cause.
Our society is destroying the family base with temptation & indulgences. If you bring a child into this world or take a child on then you give up 18years automatically then you give up the rest of your life in worry whether you did right or wrong.
To quote the phrase at the start of the Senate Report,
"Any nation that does not care for and protect ALL of its children does not deserve the right to call itself a nation" Nelson Mandela.
Thanks for your time have a good life from Dave

The protection of children should matter to
us all. We've got to bring child abuse out
into the open. Unfortunately it often gets
hidden - not many cases are reported for a
variety of reasons, and most people don't seem
that interested - seeing it as 'someone else's
problem.'

It should be everyone's problem.

We need to talk about this issue. -
We need to take away the stigma
associated with having been abused.
We need to teach children to report incidents
- and not be afraid to
discuss the subject. Parents need to be more
aware - as to what their children are doing,
and with whom. They need to learn the tell-tale
signs - and changes in their child's behaviour,
especially towards any given relative, neighbour,
or friend. Parents need to be aware of what goes
on in their child's school - and generally pay more
attention - of what goes on in their child's life.

No child should ever feel that they are on their
own without having an adult they can turn to
for help. Building a child's trust - is very
important in this process - otherwise this matter
will remain hidden - to the advantage of the abuser.

As for the abusers - I'm not sure what to suggest -
personally I'd be for castration - but I don't
know if that would solve the problem.

Hey Burb, How did we go from children being abused to being paranoid about taking photos, in public, of our kids?

Me and my hubby are always taking photos in public and will happily tell anyone complaining about it shove off forthwith. But you know, we’d probably use more modern language. Could make a national “Get out there and take a Photy Day.”[smile] Sony etc would back it.

And you can call and call the dude behind the desk, usually it’s a chick, and they wont listen. You could storm on in and take the kids yourself but I suspect the government would be more than just regulating your life if you tried it.

OUG. What is the botox thing about?

Hi Suzy, I don’t know about sexual perverts so can’t answer. Do they register or anything here?

Belly:”Julie I know you care for kids as much as I do.
But mate some kids are in the hands of drugys who want the cash .
My country should be ashamed.”

I do care Belly and I understand this topic is something you care about it. I believe children are in danger inside the foster care system. I’ve seen them horribly damaged by “casework”.

Taking kids from bad parents is one thing but not if they are then going to be placed in hurtful situations where no one hears them or considers their worth until booted out at 18 years old.

Australia should be scared; “Sorry” might not cut it the next round.

The little Aussie foster children should be the countries responsibility more than any other child and they have no voice.

Even I am ashamed, and more ashamed as I am forced to be part of the damage.

And you know what? I am thoroughly confused between this topic and the one over in Articles.

Dave I have followed your story and feel your pain.
As one of such a big family welfare haunted us as kids, got it very wrong very often.
Pied piper I shared for much of my life your life, see I took over my dads roll after his early death at age 54.
5 of my siblings had to be rared then after unfortunately 5 of my sisters kids, at times in fact eight of them.
My job takes me into places few want to be, if you do it well, if you truly believe and are proud of it, you get requests for help in things you can not believe.
No saint me, a rough nut and proud of it, on helping some one earning much more than I ever did, who was sacked for drug use.
I found kids living such horrible lives, other peoples kids in care of him and his equally silly wife.
For every headline story like the 30 years of abuse maybe a thousand, maybe ten thousand exist unknown.
If do gooders want to help offenders and put children at risk doing it we are lost.

jewel the botox bit was about that denise fergusson[pervert]..who has moved outof state...to try to escape his past...i recall he first moved out into accomidation...when he deserved homelessness

anyhow he has a tick..that horribly distorts his fact...via botoc those muscles ...might just relax enough for him to not 'look' as much a typical perevert freak...of course may perverts verge on hansome of even pretty..to publiclly hound this retard...sets us up to hate other equally damaged but NOT perverted enough to injur children

true friends would give him a new face in the mirror...tell him to relax into what he is not what others think him to still be...he might be a nice guy[now]..or decieving many do gooders...but i dont have enough info to judge...nor enough need to hate to assume the worst...but we know the current system is set up to abuse all of us...sadly its not a point of debate...but by their deeds are we revealed ...not our looks

havnt gone the other topic...im sort of got that other 2 posts per topic...max of 5 perday away as a joke...dammit if we need to reply why the hell limit our postings...its a common handicap..grayham even applies to himself//honerably...and i do agree the 350 word ,iimit..but the post ,limit..well im just avoiding going there

i hate reading...pushing comment...then seeing no posts...then re reading going to post then your 5 posts is up...im over it...so i stopped going there...then the links go straight to comnents...lol...not the article...no it just gets me angry..i got too much of that allready

I have read posts from the pied piper and one under god in other threads.
That seemed more at home in this one.
I have no doubt most of us want an end to storys about children being so badly treated.
But remember we can not agree about most things, I refer to humans not us in OLO.
Senators who chant endlessly about family values have put not one bill forward that helps such kids.
I note the remarks about that bloke now polluting Sydney.
I do not share the view he should be homeless, we at least know his location .
He is nearly blind, maybe that is his facial tick?
But his rights even to a better life are not even important to me if he is a danger to kids.
Those under 35 years of age should know we once looked after children much better than we do today.

Hey Belly, I seem to have been in a few conversations recently about children, funny how stuff comes in waves. Child abuse will drift away again next tide.

The threads in articles will turn in to a gender war; adults bicker as the children are again forgotten. There is little else to be done – like the dog breeding, we vent (word on loan from UOG) and then we mellow. Some of us have our pet subjects (‘scuse the pun Exam) but it is hard to sustain a dialogue unless there is opposition to the way you see the problem or solution.

I have said 50 different ways that NGO’s are a problem, DoCS need fixing and the countries children need more help. You’ve backed me up each time (since I arrived on OLO) Belly and I thank you and understand your own personal experiences weigh heavily on you still.

Justice Wood made his Recommendations for NSW, both houses passes nearly all of them. How he could be so blind is beyond me, I always expect educated people to actually be much cleverer than myself. And me, I’ll never be heard anywhere but here it seems. But at least I found people here that did listen and I believe they do care. And as I learn more maybe I will find some key that will enable me to do more.

OUG, thanks for the explanation. A small soul is here, a young boy now suspended from school at half a dozen years with a still undecided future. No one I hate has contacted me yet to talk.

Got that one very wrong.
In another thread I blamed another for holaalots snide remark about my thread title, Sancho jumped on me too.
In a thread about the awful failures we see daily the dreadful lives some live right now, maybe never to be uncovered the best they can do is boot me because I am less educated than them.
To the one I wrongly tagged gee truly sorry, sorry Sancho I thought much more of you,
Holaalot?
are you English?
Does it matter? read my first hundred posts here, know it once was far worse in other forums.
My education was limited but I have come so far from that 486 computer that opened my world.
And in another forum not too many years ago, it had Personal messages, we need such a thing, I was handed a gift I can never repay.
Spell check.
Now from have to try again, find ways to spell that the checker could find the words I mostly get it right.
It is not the first time you pulled me up.
Do you know I have little to no respect for you?
Every week I have to help some worker great at his/her job, who can not read or write.
I always remind them they are as good as most, Even better than some, I suspect you would not understand.
But to me, forever your opinions of your self are inflated and I would not like your company at any time.
Today yesterday tomorrow some place maybe not too far from us children suffer,may die, may never be free, yet we talk of this?

Please know and understand the pied piper I am no Diplomat.
I say it like I think and understand I should not sometimes, but I value honesty.
In you, your husband too I see good people looking after kids, the type we need many more of.
My dislike of DOCs has seen me say we need better maybe more NGOs?
Well I got that wrong.
Totally involved in my job I let the real world pass me by.
You made me look around and think.
I had been aware kids are in family homes all around me, other peoples kids other homes not theirs.
But far too many kids far too many not the right family's.
I DO NOT TRUST DOCS, but know some of these children are in the wrong hands, hands that care about the income not the children.
Has our world gone mad?
Can we justify concerns at costs more than fears about kids?
I will be jumped on but is it ok that some family's have had eight children taken away yet have another each year to get the cash before giving up that child?
We are gutless, self focused and uncaring, we know children are our future but some are living horrible lives and we will move on to other subjects.
Like most things in life a few will continue to fight forever to those you me and them I beg
Never give up, ever.

Belly
Like me pain seems to be etched into your posts but you conceal it a little better than I.
I know that this may seem hypocracy coming from me & my past but there is a lot of good coppers out there that want to do something about the section that is nothing more than scum but they are not perfect & DoCS & the establishment have their hands tied with the threat of the removal of these coppers kids
This is what these child abusing bastards do to any that rock their boat.
These good coppers would sooner run child abusers down than take on a lot of other areas but their hands are tied as they want a secure future for their wives & kids & can't risk the loss of their work for fear of losing the security which their work gives their families.
Anyway I wish you well, maybe just maybe we will make a difference I can only hope, have faith & see if love really can conquer all.
Have a great life from Dave

As a young child I was taken from my family made a ward of the state.
Being sent to the salvation army boys home in Bayswater Victoria.
While in the care of the Salvation Army, like many other boys in their care, was continually forced to suffer mental, physical and sexual abuse by salvation army staff carers. I am now 60 years of age and still suffer the traumatic memories of my child hood approximately 50 years ago. Major Francis appeared to get pleasure out of inflicting pain and punishment on the children in his care. Envoy Collins, a pedophile was allowed to satisfy his sexual desires raping any boy he fancied.
Adult prisons are full of prisoners who were once children state wards in institutions.
Gypsy

Where the government or agents on its behalf are supplying services or making other payments there should be regular, random and independent audit. Such audit should never be performed solely by professionals similar to those supplying the service (because they make allowances they shouldn't make). Review should always be by a team of auditors.

The remaining problem is that the need for the audit and its brief should not be subject to final approval or sign off by the CEO of the department, agency or private contractor supplying the service. That does nor prevent the govt agency or NGO performing its own audits which they should be doing however it does make it harder for managers and contractors to ensure a report whitewashes problems as 'minor human errors' when major systemic problems exist.

Few reports gathered by government are impartial and informed but I do have respect for the work of the federal Australian National Audit Office (ANAO). Its reports are made public and are followed up.

It was an ANAO report that found that the aged were not being poorly treated in nursing homes. Of course it is up to us the voters to demand independent audits and to insist on action by government.

So there are three answers:

1. Regular independent audit of all areas of government operation (the schedule of audits and the briefs should be ADVERTISED IN ADVANCE FOR PUBLIC SCRUTINY. That is easy to do because they plan well in advance. In addition, there must be review of the existence and operation of audit committees;

2. Voters having the wit and guts to vote with their feet; and

3. Acceptance by us all that 'someone' isn't going to fix every problem and sometimes we have to act on our own initiative, even if that means visiting the police station to ensure that a formal complaint is recorded.

Hey Belly, see we have the foster parents… probably more now with the GFC.

We have a ton of caseworkers between the government departments and the non-government ones. Justice Wood did not have to scatter the children through multiple agencies, sibling groups also get separated between them.

DoCS need to be the only ones “in charge”.

Give the NGO’s the early intervention and working with families in need.

Get the NGO’s right away from the foster kids.

The foster parents should all move back to be monitored by DoCS, the department responsible for the children’s removal should step up and be their guardians and not be outsourcing this role and then turning their backs on them.

The NGO foster parents; if doing it for the children shouldn’t mind the slash of up to 50% of their income from these kids.

The NGO caseworkers who want to work with foster kids can suck up their pay cuts and the loss of their company cars and all the other bonuses funded by DoCS and get their butts over to DoCS.

Right now we have children who are commodities; they are contracts and projected incomes. For Justice Wood to recommend this culture of private companies expanding and to assume they will take the load of off poor overworked DoCS is laughable if you can ignore how horrific the reality is.

DoCS all along needed to be overhauled and then expanded. No way should they be pushed in to a role of taking children and then passing them on to whoever has submitted a tender.

What Gypsy is saying, and we’ve heard from Huffnpuff – this is your “not for profit” and “charities”.

In July 2009 I attended a Reunion and Book Launch ( Salvation ) compiled and written by Rod Braydon, a former ward of the state in the 1950's. Rod was in both Salvation Army Boys Homes in Box Hill & Bayswater Victoria. Attending the book launch allowed releasing the traumatic memories of my childhood and talk to other people who knew and understood the emotional,physical and sexual abuse we suffered at the hands of the elected carers. Both the Federal & State Governments as well as the opposition Governments parties have indicated they will make a public apology to all former Wards of the State who were raised in institutions. At long last the political parties and the people finally know and believe atrocities took place in State & Religious run institutions. One group, Care Leavers Australia Network ( CLAN )has been pushing for this for many years.
Gypsy

Gypsy
I feel your pain as a 61/2 year old I was removed from my mum my Attachment & Bonding figure.
My dad fought for me as a White man for a White child(part Koorie on mums side)& rared with a step family that hated my guts.
I am 55 & still to this day I recall my fathers words in front of that bloody Court House "I will fight for him Peg I will fight for him at least you will get to see him" those words rang through my mind as they took me to my mum the last night that I would spend with her.
As my father fought for me as a white child I was made denounce my Koorie side for fear of them taking me then from my dad this only gave my step-mother more ammunition to hold against my father & push her children more onto my dad.
Then Bloody DoCs take my child & put him through the very pain(12years now) that I & so many out there suffered.
Anyway starting to hurt a little to much at the moment
I bid you all a good life from Dave

Cornflower the NSW Children’s Guardian performs in this way for the NGO’s and also the Ombudsman for the government department. This is about processes and policies.

The Ombusdman – a buffer to shut the public up, kill time.

NSW Children’s Guardian – an NGO who will not help any individual child. They deal with policy.

You wont pick up in paperwork how the children are cared for. This has to be something invasive and frequent in the lives of foster parents. Unplanned.

Invasive, I should add, does not necessarily mean unpleasant.

Both the children and the foster parents need to be heard.

Do you have a different meaning of "audit" than I have?

Over the weekend we saw more headlines a young girl who was sexual assaulted by her teacher.
And the concerns shown over a long term, by that teachers co workers, with no action.
NSW said sorry we heard another poster tell a horrific personal story.
We know Church men await trial for many such crimes.
And teachers too, some from high cost private schools.
Do any of us think we are about to find an answer?
That we can end the exploitation and torture of our children?
Do not kid your selves even advertisers make little girls look like women to sell goods.
Parents too put children in danger this way, stealing their right to be kids.
And when an offender is found?
Far too many of us find reason to help the offender and non to support the victim.
Our children deserve much better.

Dear Belly,
So what is the answer You point out it is not religion, I agree.It is not Politicions, I agree. It is not people including dads and mums for ALL have sinned. So where else do you turn as you have rejected the only answer that works!

G'Day All,
Belly & Richie 10 this can be stopped but it is not any good if we all just pick & choose whose child we are going to help.
I have been saying on this site now that I have the paper work to expose that side of life & have said to contact direct & I would be happy to supply you all the the paperwork & names that have been used that side of life to abuse my son.
TPP & HuffnPuff are the only two that have had the decency to do it.
All this is becoming is a talk show no action.
I am only one man I cannot stem the tide on my own but I am limited by what I can outright say here & limited to 350 words each post.
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step" I will take that step but I am going to need company on that journey.
I made a pact with 13 others in 74 at Parramatta Gaol to try to get to the bottom of certain things of those 13 there is now only 2 other than me left some have died of old age some have died asking questions in the wrong places.
All the last 12 years has achieved is time to let those connections that I am fighting & trying to stop, is to malign me & grow in force
while I have had to fight for my very existance taking time from me so as to tie my hands.
The people that are responsible for all this crap on our kids are connected back & forth through different circles but all tied together.
Anyway running out of space. Contact me graysond49@yahoo.com
Have a Good life from Dave

Hey Richie, I think Belly is pointing out what isn’t working, what large cracks there are that children fall through. Maybe all the theories, rules and policies in schools and even charities/not for profit orgs are in place but they just do not work. Or are ignored. Management not managing.

We have rather large government departments in each state that have a lot of taxpayer money and the professionals who do studies and research and contract out for other professions to do studies and research. I suspect they exist to help kids in care, put kids in care and help families get back together. I thought they also funded all programs for any early intervention needed. I also assumed they put mandatory reporting in place and had a lot to do with any adult who works with children.

I would start by demanding they do work and that the money fed into this system is effectively put to use. The identifying of an abused child, the removal, and that the child does not continue to suffer unheard under the guardianship of the state.

Dave what we want for children and parents overlaps for the good of the children. No decent foster family wants a child with them who should be at home and would be safe at home. I think the mens groups may be of help to you. What has happened to you is what they talk about – a child taken while a perfectly able and loving father is wanting to be a dad to his child.

Dear pied piper,
As belly knows I be;ieve the only answer is a change of heart and as that can only happen with a real encounter with the living God which most do not believe in I wondered if he had an alternative that works.

“Dear pied piper,
As belly knows I believe the only answer is a change of heart and as that can only happen with a real encounter with the living God which most do not believe in I wondered if he had an alternative that works.”

Lovely, shall me make it his place or mine? I could probably do up the playroom, get in some trestle tables and pull the barbq round the back. Do you think if I sent out some home made party invites, and promised there would be some little take home bags with lollies, that we could get the Prime Minister etc to come for a heart changing ceremony with God as guest speaker?

Do you think if God met the foster kids he’d have the change of heart?

Dear pied piper,
You have just confirmed what I said by trivalising it.
congratulations on being part of the problem for to me child molestation is very real in todays society and without the living God and with a seared concience we are all capible of such moral depravity. As the apostle Paul said {paraphrased] There but for the grace of God goes I.

Take it back.

dwg if we ever meet we can work together, be upset with me if you must.
But I must defend my personal details, my job is only part of my activism.
I write and have written thousands of letters to hundreds of people.
You must know our battle is not easy, but the rewards are great.
If we had personal messages here in OLO we could talk bloke forgive me I am no coward but very careful.
You and I would get on, if you ever see me about by my name on my shirt grab me we can talk.
Richie ten, I do not want to hurt you, can not say if you are a good person or not, but understand Christians mostly are good people.
I do not share your belief, once did ,never again.
Remember much of the dreadfull crimes against children took place in schools of religion and Church's.
Our fate is in our hands, no Gods, our duty is surely to stop this?
I find Christians waiting for God to fix our problems a very real concern.
I think the homes for life and forgiveness for ministers preachers by Church's wrong.
Yes ministers and members of Parliament too.
Some of the worst offenders are from middle and high income groups.
I knew one for years and yet did not know until police took him away.
Forget and forgive? no mate not me hard but honest children first.

G'Day All,
Thanks to Eyeinthesky the decency to contact.
Belly I am not so much upset with you & I have no intentions of exposing your personal life I live in Gatton Qld now so if you are up this way sometime I would appreciate meeting you.
UOG Love & sex are different things & sex is not making love.
Love IS, Love requires no making nor creating,Love requires only the giving,Love requires no reward for that giving only the sharing. Love has but one fault it is vain as it considers it can conquer all.Love does not seek its own only its opposite as Love has no need for itself as Love already IS.
Three things that are required in life Love,Faith & Hope but the greatest gift of all is Love because without love there is nothing at all.
Rich 10 we can stop the child abuse but being an ex main stream prisoner it's better unsaid in this forum.
We have to start somewhere, Decriminalise drugs so as to stop the underground life that illegalising leads to.
There is a problem with mudguards they are shiny on top but sh/t underneath.
Yeah TPP the Omdudsman is a waste of time I could supply letters where they say there is problems but hand it back to DoCS & the very people that someone is complaining about.
ICAC just as bad & the Inspectors office of the ICAC is useless when it comes to DoCs as at least one of their lot was the Minister for DoCS.
Too many adults are more concerned for themselves than the kids.
Like I have said lets build the importance of the SAHM's get rid of the child care centres get the women back in the homes subsidise if need be but make it that one mans wage is enough to support the family & give the money that the Governments give to the day care centres to the SAHM's. Support the family unit not legislate to destroy it
Thanks all for your time have a good life from Dave

Dave it’s really difficult, you can tell people about what DoCS and its sister agencies in other states have done but in the public arena and with having to be careful the real tragedy has much less of an impact.

It is an unemotional story without the little face and without the name, and missing that background and that young ones misery and hurt.

This lack of transparency in the system stops abuse and leads to abuse at the same time. The foster children’s identity should be protected and yet this very protection is what keeps all the stories very very quiet.

The odd rogue stories that hit headlines are what keep the public thinking they do know about the children and they probably breathe a big sigh that something is now being done about that incident.

They cannot be expected to know more than what is reported. Some on OLO have been up close and personal, witnessed it. More on OLO that drop in have experienced abuse themselves when children.

Every single person has mentioned no one helping and not being heard, having no one to tell or ignored when they did speak out.

I have written/e-mailed/faxed/sent registered mail to the Minister for Community Services, the Director General, the Regional Manager, Out of Home Care Manager, Therese Rhien, The Shadow Minister for Community Services, Life Without Barriers, NSW Children’s Guardian, The NSW Ombudsman and many more.

I asked them to help some little foster kids. I thought I’d seen a lot over my years fostering but never have I struck such indifference to the children as here in NSW. I am staggered by it and feel completely dazed by such callousness.

30,000 children in foster care in Australia. Who is listening to them?

i hate typing and poured out my heart on my daughters kidnapping by docs over my work as an advocate for human rights for addicts and my daughter was seized and abused by these people, so i tried to kill a d.o.c.s worker in court for fabricating evidence thinking, at least i could get a public inquiry into the incident but they dismissed the case against me ,if anyone out there knows of and honest person in power out their could they help me to rescue my child ,who is probably being abused as a form of physiological torture on me, who gets to be her farther for twelve hours a year under supervision where you can be guaranteed you can never ask what is worrying you most, or your visit will end,how is this inhumanity possible if my case is investigated i will show you corruption beyond belief regards the motorcycle messiah

i hate typing and poured out my heart on my daughters kidnapping by docs over my work as an advocate for human rights for addicts and my daughter was seized and abused by these people so i tried to kill a d.o.c.s worker in court for fabricating evidence thinking at least i could get a public inquiry into the incident but they dismissed the case against me if anyone out there knows of and honest person in power out their could they help me to rescue my child who is probably being abused as a form of physiological torture on me who gets to be her farther for twelve hours a year under supervision where you can be guaranteed you can never ask what is worrying you most or your visit will end,how is this inhumanity possible if my case is investigated i will show you corruption beyond belief regards the motorcycle messiah

TPP
I am one that would listen to all 30,000 we now have the internet.
I know what you are saying about the NSW departments it is just a great big mess.
The people that are in authority that can do something sit in ivory towers & when someone contacts them we get a reply with their signature but the ones that sign very rarely get the letter.
Any person that wants to be in the position of the power of the Director-General should be able to be accessed direct then they would make sure something is done in the departments but I couldn't even get to the Director-General even when going through my Local & Federal members.
As you have seen by the letter from Niel Shepard as late as last year he is not even of knowledge of the orders in relation to my son & he was contacted by the PM's office.
Thanks for the support and All have a good life from Dave

Motorcyclemessiah
Contact me on graysond49&yahoo.com as that is what DoCS has done to my Son but I don't even get the 12hours a year
Thanks have a good life from Dave

Sorry for all your' troubles dwg, and you had my sympathies right up to when you said <"Like I have said lets build the importance of the SAHM's get rid of the child care centres get the women back in the homes subsidise if need be but make it that one mans wage is enough to support the family..."

That is a very old fashioned way of thinking Dave. Are you suggesting we all go back to the 'good old days' when the little woman stayed at home and minded the kiddies and didn't work outside the home?

Alot of men would like to go back to that sort of control, where unhappy women could not financially leave their husbands if they wanted to. Can I suggest some of the Islamic countries for those sort of men?

There was still plenty of child sexual and physical abuse back in those days Dave. It's just that it was all kept much quieter and hidden in the homes with the women

dwg and mm I need to tell you both the world is unfair, it always has been.
You very much like me, may have let the anger at the wrong done to you rule.
It never helps your case.
It did not help mine, in my post history is the story of my little niece.
I had co custody of her from birth, love lived in fact for her.
She got into bad company around 12 years of age, other girls older.
She was drinking, having sex and climbing out windows at 2am.
DOCs took her away, she asked them to, they took her to the home of a DOCS worker.
His 23 year old cousin slept with her for 2 years before she begged to come home.
See? to many the story looks a lie, that I am only telling one side.
Maybe it was my fault.
Remember what I said about anger.
On her return that 23 year old and his thug like family came to my home.
My actions in protecting her ,screaming in fear, saw me branded and angry man.
Her life is over, she is still alive, no longer in contact with me, a drug addict, a prostitute.
Dumping her kids, in the strangest way, on her mum, like her mum did to me.
And endless circle?
Yes but why do we let it happen.
Believe me she went to Sunday school and was like her siblings treated with love and kindness before these events
We went without to see bikes horses and the best for her and her brothers.
My only wish is that I let anger rule me DOCs used that and after they finally listened and got rid of the grub who did this told me my anger blinded them to truth.

So learn to control anger, take the time to re read those letters before you send them.
Understand the public service mostly is about white wash not results.
Be aware in every thing Friends can help, sit down write your story, get it copy ed send the PM and every one in his cabinet one.
After a month you will have a return letter from many public servants that says nothing.
Promises nothing.
Photo copy them, send every one to the opposition.
And heap every answer into one pile copy the lot send every one to every media outlet you can find.
But do not let anger destroy your case, keep always keep every document forever.
Pain it does not go away ,well it is over 20 year for me and it still hurts but you must never give in another kid may be saved by your actions.
Remember your fight is worth while anger must be controlled directed but controlled
my regards
And yes Dave have a good life

Suseonline,
I had your sympathy, I never asked for or wanted your sympathy. I am an adult near at the end of my life (three score & ten). My Son has had criminal offences committed against HIM.
Also I do not want a return to "THE GOOD OLD DAYS" I have said it is time we recognised the importance of the SAHM's & the major & I do mean major role the SAHM's play not only in the home but the carry over of this right through society.
Instead of the feminist movement wanting equal rights to go out drinking sleeping around having a good time all that the men were doing they should have been saying to the men get home & help with the children.I also gather you have not read Bowlby Attachment & Loss do so & see what the gender roles are in a childs life.
AS my father said you bring a child into this world or take a child on you give up 18years of your life automatically then the rest of your life in worry whether you did right or wrong. And as far as Islamic countries they are not much different to Christianity it is just that feminists wanted what men were doing which was wrong.
When a women wants to get married why should she be looking at financial independence to leave the woman gave a committment for life so too the man then honour the vows & stop looking for greener pastures & being envious of someone else
Men that want a woman to bow them want to remember a marriage is a union of two as one then if the former is the approach of men then they should bow to themselves as well which is the woman their other half.
Holy matrimony should not be able to be compared to de-facto marriage as de-facto marriage is marriage without marriage NO COMMITTMENT walk out whenever they choose. This is a real good approach for the children & displays little problem solving solutions.
Thanks have a good life from Dave

Belly,
Re the anger part for five years all paper work addressed to the authorities has been through my Local Member so the anger side there was not available as they were dealing through my Local Member.
First If I offend anyone from here I apologise also it may have to be over two posts so cont. could be there.
Belly, to answer the Anger part fully:-
I have lived a life that I would wish upon no man, But I lived it so lets see what I can say from one side that being the side of wrong so I will repeat the words I once spoke to a DCJ I haven't got a damn clue what is right but I do know what is wrong.
To answer what is wrong one must have a base to which to work from, Mans basic instinct is animal(athough at times I have been vegetable and thought myself mineral but that's just, me?)
When a man is accused of something that he has sworn against and acted upon,(for other peoples children), then have my Son removed from my yard by the very bastard that was accusing a man of doing that which he is sworn against Anger What Anger.
Then the Court (Kangaroo? Belly, I will tell you now Jumped out the window AND took the joey with it) Now Anger What AAnger
Have three months to get a grasp on the Act & The Law sitting in The Attorney-Generals Law Library the 18/9/1997 preparing paperwork to present before the DC the 19/9/1997 then be accused of being not by one but two of being 550klms that night from where you are at in sworn affidavit statements what do you call placing before the Courts that which you know to be false plus the allegation that DoCS took my Son for they didn't believe and one of the accusers then makes a sworn statement of the 18/9/1997 in serious problems aye
No nothing done the DC will just find a date that I was in that town
Anger What AAAnger. cont.

dwg, sorry I upset you by not agreeing with everything you said.

It sounds like you have HUGE anger issues that you need to deal with if you don't want to let it eat you away. You only have one life.

How old is your' son now dwg? Surely he is old enough or almost old enough to make up his own mind about all of this supposed vendetta against you?
If it was all wrongly handled, then surely he will find out?

You really need to get some professional help.
I mean well, honestly. Sue.

dwg your pain your anger, the unfairness of it.
My pain my anger my once very near breakdown.
My loss because I cared are side issues.
My idea for this thread has failed.
Note how often we copy Foxys short sentences style.
My thought was we could truly talk abut our failure, all of us.
Generations of us.
In child protection.
We did not do that.
Child sex is not just something pedophiles who are on the margins of life do.
Some of US tour other country's judges police people from all walks of life, for sex with children.
30 years a sex slave, for her own father, and no one stopped it.
How many do we not know about?
Will we ever learn?
Anger dwg is great when men need to fix baronets and go to war.
The pain and anger is hard but if we expose it in a debate? a court room debate?
If I yesterday let my anger at two grown men crying because of hurt pain and miss management I would have lost their case.
I harnessed it used it wisely they both still have jobs.

Cont.
Now as I was saying Anger What Anger I have contained that anger But when the very departments that are supposed to be protecting children are corrupt taking children on false evidence(Perjury) kidnap denial of legal and human rights the situation must cease and what has happened to my son is criminal offences and it is wrong.
Why is it wrong because as at the start I said I know wrong and what has occurred here is wrong
Now people here want to know when is this wrong going to stop then get off the butts & ask why this child has been denied the laws that was to protect him
The reason I am judged angry because that is what those that make that judgement on me would be ANGRY
I am but one man with the proof to prove that the Directors-Generals have committed criminal offences and it is the directors-general that is guilty of the crime not the workers underneath that has been tested in court before today.
So until those that want to raise the issues of child abuse do something, then don't sit and say that I am angry, as that is what you would be. Start demanding that the authorities be prosecuted then we just might start to uncover the rot that is within our society.
Like I have said contact me direct and I will give you the evidence but don't hide behind the personal detail bit as I am not interested in anyones personal details just somewhere to send it to you
Until we take action the children will continue to suffer
Actions Speak Louder Than Words
STOP CHILD ABUSE OR LEAVE THE SUBJECT ALONE
Have a good life from Dave

Suzeonline
Upset me because you don't agree with all I say wouldn't give a damn whether you agreed or not
You want to post on child abuse then do something to stop it
By your response I would say that you are or were hired in the public service arena
HUGE anger problem no just sick of people talking on child abuse when they do nothing to stop it
As I say it is a bit hard to say outright why I am so much against child abuse
But we will see if you may be able to work it out EX Main stream Prisoner the stench of human blood(Rock Spider) is hard to remove this is over another persons children I am told go home make a life
Anti- social behaviour to do what was done the other side of the wall so rely on the law to do the protecting of my child what do I get the very behaviour that was condemned the side that I am supposed to forget
So much for your society laws
Thanks have a good life Dave

I went checked out the thread in articles on child sexual abuse, predictably the men blame the women.

The theme being pushed is; Women didn’t defend the kids.

Women let the children be around the abusers.

This huge percentage of men sexually abusing children and it is women’s fault. It is not the menz fault however for the way they have raised their sons over generations and it appears never to be the menz fault if a woman is abusing a child – must be some other bitches fault.

It is pointless talking to anyone whose agenda is to damage rather than take part in any selfless healing or fight for what is right. It is a horrible feeling I have that a female can no longer turn to a male and ask them for help without them considering it a point for their team.

I am sorry Dave, like Foxy about to lose her step-dad, you are suffering too long through grief and loss. I have spoken to other foster parents who have had their own child die.

They say it is less painful than DoCS ripping a child from you and forever going through the pain an uncertainty of not knowing how a child you love is being cared for, if they are okay or being able to tell them they really were treasured by someone. These foster parents know their departed child no longer suffers, how could any parent with a child placed in this system not be angry or in a continual fight to suppress the anger that comes with helplessness and panic.

This government’s shame is that it cannot look after the children they take.

This countries shame is that its government keeps the children quiet and allows others to profit from them.

The peoples shame is that they do not demand transparency.

Hear! Hear! Piper.

It is impossible to have any meaningful dialogue, let alone reach a consensus on the best way to protect our children while a subset of men continue to hold women at fault in an attempt to subdue women's voices - to discredit anything any woman has to offer on this terrible situation.

I agree that some women abuse and that some women could've done more to protect their children. However, the fact remains that men are responsible for their own behaviour - NOT WOMEN.

<< This countries shame is that its government keeps the children quiet and allows others to profit from them. >>

The question to be is asked is why? Why is the above permitted to continue? Blaming each other will not stop this abuse.

TPP
That is what I am now going to do my Son is dead he has been told that I am not his real father he has been told that the ex's boyfriend is his real father.
If the Bible is true then Jesus says "come unto me all little children that have suffered and I will give you relief"
I ain't no Jesus I am just me.
When I die I will go below but there will be many that will be keeping me company
I have suffered too long not only for what I thought was my son but for all the abused children(sexual, physical and psychological abuse)
so I will just bail out
Foxy I am truly sorry to hear about your step dad I wish you only good things in life
TPP I thank you for your decency and support likewise Huffnpuff and Eyeinthesky I thank you also may your Lord shine on you well
The rest I hope you have a good life
Child abuse can be someone elses problem
Bye from Dave

Here, here Piper and Fractelle!
Yes, we have a child abuse problem in this country, as many countries do.
No, it is not the women's fault for all this, nor is it just the men. We are all in this fight together and should put aside gender issues for the good of children.

I admit that I certainly don't have the answers, and I will try not to get so angry at others who feel it is females at fault for all the world's woes.
I shall try to just feel sorry for them.

suzeonline:"we have a child abuse problem in this country"

We have a bigger problem with children being physically abused and neglected.

As long as we focus on the lesser to the exclusion of the latter, then children will continue to suffer.

Hi To All The Forgotten Australians

I Attended The Memorial For The Forgotten Australians On saturday 19th September 2009, And Layed The Flowers For The Lost Innocents ,

The Words I Were To Say , That I Was Given Were ( I Lay These Flowers For The Lost Opportinities And The Lost Idenities ) , I Added These Words From My Heart , The Destroyed Our Evidence And Our Lives Thank You ,

After Hearing The Service And Being Apart of It I Was so Emotionally Upset ,

The Goverment Say They Have Put 9 Million Dollars Into Resourses,

That Maybe well and good for The Future Of Our Children ,

But That Is Not Giving Us Victims Who have Lost Our Homes And Faimlys , Fighting For Justice These Things Back ,

We A Lot Of us Know What I Said Is True They Have Destroyed Our Evidence And Our Lives And That Of Our Truth ,

I Was Hurt After Reading The Papers On Sunday Their Was Only A Couple Of Write Up About Us Victims , No Photo's Of The Day , Of All Those Who Were Their ,

So Have We All Been Forgotten Already By The Goverment And The Media

As We Are The History Of The Abuse Of Australia's Institutional Homes ,

Wether It Be State Or Territtories, Institutional Homes ,

Orphanages, Girls boys homes Remand Centres ,State Ward Homes , Foster Home, State Run Church Homes , Church Homes ,Out Of Home Care, And Many More ,

I said To Mr Rees On The Day The Lawyers For D.O.C.S. State They Destroyed The Records Of The Log Books Records , Proving A Case Mine,

Seem To Go In One Ear And Out The Other , So How Can Any Of Us Get Justice When D.O.C.S. Own Lawyers State This In A Court Case , Then The Courts Dissmiss It In Favour Of The State

Contined,,,

This Just Shows How Corupt The Goverment And The Courts Have And Still Cover Up About Victims Just like Me , And Many Many Other Victims We Are The Real Victims That Have Told The Truth But They Destroy Our Evidence To Prove Our Truth,

The Forgotten Australians Are Real victims Yes We have Been Acknowledged By The Goverment Said Sorry To By The N.S.W . Premier Mr Rees , And Some Church Members ,

Is That Going To Us Back Our Homes We Have Lost Fighting For Justice That We Owned Our Selves , Many Of Us Now Rent Private , still Await For A Housing Commission,

But They Can Give Protection To One Of Australia's Worst Pedophiles,And A Home,

And Those Of Us Who Have Fought Hard In The Courts On Our Own Lose Our Faimly Homes Fighting The Actual Goverments That Raped Us And Abused Us And Made Us Their Slaves , Of Which They The Goverment Made Profit From And Still Protect Those Who Worked For These Institutional Homes We Were All Once In ,

If I Have Up set Any One Here Im Sorry But This Is How I Feel ,

I Can Only Hope When Mr Rudd Give Us Victims The Forgotten Australians his Formal Apology It Will be With Honesty And Remorsval And Beleavable To Us All Forgotten Australians

Im HuffnPuff Micheal Brown , The Real Deal Victim Of The Forgotten Australian

Cheers Fractelle and Suzy.

Could the good men of OLO not read further.

Anti:”We have a bigger problem with children being physically abused and neglected. As long as we focus on the lesser to the exclusion of the latter, then children will continue to suffer.”

Anti we bloody weren’t ignoring any of the abuses but the topic here and over in articles is SEXUAL ABUSE.

But hey there you go again looking for the right comment so you can throw crap. Why don’t you bring back burning witches – cheered you all up a few hundred years ago.

While we are on the subject of sexual abuse shall we discuss rape? Who rapes everyone these days? Is it the dykes? Oh or how about terrorist attacks – that’ll be the the Muslim wenches? Ooohh I know, how about wars, which gender started the last few? A few femnazi dictators? Global Financial Crisis – that’d be all the whores at the helm of investment banks and governments? And I don’t think we should ignore all those religions, are there any religious leaders riding the crimson wave?

You want to ignore the kids and have a damn all out rage about which gender since time began has really caused the misery and crap in the world?

YOU men WOULD LOSE!

TPP:"YOU men WOULD LOSE!"

Spoken like a true gender warrior, Jewels, well done.

When was the last time you worked for a living?

That’s just it Anti – I do what I do for the girls and boys, not the men and women that got them here.

But no, I don’t get paid.

Now each one in my care 24 hours a day 7 days a week – some go off to visits with family either once a week for two-three hours or twice a week for two-three hours.

At present there are six in my care.

Four sexually abused and mistreated, one unknown, one never abused or neglected.

I don’t know who comes up with stats but with little kids you don’t often get to prove they were sexually abused or neglected but usually a bruise will be used to bring them in to care. More often several abuses have occurred to them by several different adults.

Anticeptic, you have stooped lower than an ants knee when you asked Piper when she last worked for a living.

Getting a bit personal there aren't you?

What was the matter- did Piper say something a little too close to the bone?

Prove to us all that every word Piper wrote was not true.
Go on, I dare you.

Anti this morning, it took a lot of time, years in fact you proved to be you are indeed anti woman.
To OLO,s women, all of them, never ever please think I am anti woman.
This morning long before I came to this page I read about sexual assaults by staff of people in care.
Not way back not like Huffnpuffs night mare past right now in Victoria.
A man I greatly admire sent me a request to pledge white white ribbon group that I will never hurt or allowe a woman to be hurt in any way.
If you found evidence in my posts I blamed any woman, yes I did, but only for in my view her greatest sin.
Not loving her children.
Not loving them more than money ,for taking them from my home my mums care them dumping them on the roadside at 2 am.
Surely we know? all of us it could have been a bloke? no sex is perfect none evil most good but if you saw such in me?
dwg not for the first time I feel insulted by you, yet I admire you, understand you .
It is your turn to listen, to me.
I get 60 e mails a day real contact with those I work for.
I get with the best possible protection 60 to 80 spam a day.
I get 30 to 50 joke e mails a day.
In my post history you will find who I am, full name likely village even job and who for.
It bought me great pain, I acted foolishly in answering a taunt.
I was affected at work home and made up my mind not to do it again.
your challenge to me is rude and I see no reason to talk to you again, see you threaten me in that post try to in my view black mail me.
In my job I fight against people like that till death and Dave I win mate, good by Dave have a good life.

suzeonline:"Prove to us all that every word Piper wrote was not true."

She took a simple comment of mine, that was not gendered, but merely made metion of the fact that sexual assault against children is not as serious or as widespread a problem as abuse and neglect and went on with a stupidly gendered attack.

What she wrote was purely an attack on all men and a stupid digression from the main problem.

i do think she's feeling a little sensitive about the facts that are starting to emerge around the levels of violence and neglect perptrated against children by single mothers. that's her and your problem, deal with it.

Belly:"you proved to be you are indeed anti woman."

What a lot of rubbish, Belly. Show where I made any comment that is "anti-women". I made a simple statement of fact, which can be proven. The West Australian figures are quite clear:

"In 2005-06, mothers were responsible for 161 neglect, 72 emotional and psychological, 76 physical and three sexual abuse cases against their children. In the same financial year, fathers were responsible for 37 neglect, 41 emotional and psychological, 65 physical and 22 sexual abuse cases against their children. "

All the calling me antiwoman won't change that and focussing on the small number of sexual abuse cases won't help the large number of physical, psychological and emotionally abused kids, nor will it help the poor buggers who Mum simply can't be bothered or isn't up to looking after. As the report says :"Mothers were more than 17 times more likely than fathers to neglect their children". Let's not lose sight of the path while watching for drop-bears.

TPP:"I don’t get paid."

But you do, Jewels. You get to stay home doing what you choose to do while someone else picks up the tab. I'm sure you must claim all the allowances and benefits available to you - you'd be dumb to do otherwise. I laud what you do, Jewels, but don't try to play at being a saint.

By the way, here's a link to the payments that TPP is eligible for:"

http://www.childsafety.qld.gov.au/fostercare/documents/carer-handbook-money-matters.pdf

Fortnightly caring allowance Fortnightly $401.91 $432.98 $470.67
Start-up allowance One-off $86.60 $86.60 $86.60
Establishment payment One-off $432.98 $432.98 $432.98
High support needs allowance Fortnightly $144.00 $144.00 $144.00
Regional/remote loading (10%) Fortnightly $40.19 $43.30 $47.07
* All payments and allowances are indexed in January each year in line with the consumer price index (CPI).

Do I need to keep receipts?
No, you do not need to show the department how the fortnightly caring
allowance was spent. However we recommend that you hold onto all
medical and pharmaceutical receipts.

How many kids did you say you have, Jewels? 6? You're being paid at least $2400 per fortnight, plus you'd have got an additional $2400 when they commenced, plus you'll no doubt be claiming as many as possible from the following list :

http://www.childsafety.qld.gov.au/fostercare/support/benefits.html#carerchild

Not bad for someone who "doesn't get paid".

Mind you, I'm only too happy to see you get it, you obviously care about the kids, but $60K+ a year aint bad dough, especially once you've got everything set up. The "establishment" money must be a nice bonus.

Anti I am married and my husband works. I’ve said it a lot. Because of what he earns I can get the family allowance at approx 60.00 a fortnight. Out of the 6 kids I have now, I receive the FA for 3 of them. Just the way things work out here. I have no health card and am entitled to no benefit here.

I get the fortnightly allowance only – I am a short term carer. I don’t take “high needs” kids and I am not in a remote location. Because I am not a long term carer I do not get an establishment fee. But that 86.00 start up money, a couple of times the caseworker remembered to bring it otherwise you dip out. I have one child DoCS don’t pay me for, I have another they haven’t paid me in two months for.

Get a grip Anti – 400.00 a fortnight is for everything, doctors, schooling, uniforms, books, driving them anywhere, clothing, food, power, water. If I was making money hubby would be stoked.

Your comment was gendered and you were dying to get those stats in. You’d be feeling better now you managed to throw them somewhere. Did you read what I wrote? These stats don’t make sense. They all need throwing out. I have met too many teen girls in fostering that admit to lying about a man touching them. I’ve met too many kids sexually abused who were not listened to – it is good enough to get the kids in care on being physically abused (easier to prove). And again, it isn’t often that only one type of abuse occurred to a child.

Wasn’t’ it you that comment about DoCS getting things wrong but then you use stats generated by this very department?

“All the calling me antiwoman won't change that and focusing on the small number of sexual abuse cases won't help the large number of physical, psychological and emotionally abused kids,…”

You must be bloody joking. For Christ’s sake Anti go chop some wood or something.

<< All the calling me antiwoman won't change that and focusing on the small number of sexual abuse cases won't help the large number of physical, psychological and emotionally abused kids >>

Quite correct A-septic, calling names won't change anything for anyone, perhaps you might consider you own words the next time you cast aspersions on the female posters here.

Nor is anyone focusing solely on sexual abuse cases - you are attempting, yet again, to muddy the issue of child abuse. Sexual abuse is a part of the problem of mistreating children.

For your edification the following is a definition of child abuse:

"What is Child-Abuse?
The term 'Child Maltreatment' is a catch-all term to describe the maltreatment of children by caregivers, and includes various forms of child abuse and neglect.

The definition of child maltreatment is a complex area. The main forms of child abuse are;

Sexual Abuse:

* Exposure to sexual activity, voyeurism
* Fondling, masturbation, oral sex on a child or offender
* Penetrative sex on a child (or by the child to the offender).

Available statistics for 2003-2004, found that in USA, UK and Australia, approximately 10% of all child protection notifications involved an allegation of child sexual abuse.

Physical Abuse:

* Inappropriate/excessive physical discipline or hitting with an object
* Punching, kicking, shaking/throwing
* Scalding/burning, strangling, fatal abuse

Emotional Abuse (also called 'psychological abuse' or 'psychological
maltreatment'):

* A pattern of abuse. It is not a single incident
* Involves any act by a person having the care of a child that results in the child suffering any kind of significant emotional deprivation or trauma
* Emotional trauma underlies the various forms of abuse/neglect and is the central part of all abuse.

Neglect is the failure to provide a level of care that meets a child's physical and emotional needs, including;

* The failure to provide adequate food/fluids or clothing
* Failure to provide an adequate hygienic living environment
* Inadequate supervision, failure to ensure safety
* Abandonment or desertion
* Educational or medical neglect."

Cont'd

Antiwomen: << When was the last time you worked for a living? >>

There, in a nutshell, is why feminism continues to be as relevant today as ever. Sigh.

Cont'd

http://www.ourcommunity.com.au/insurance/view_help_sheet.do?articleid=1781

A-septic

Your continual attempts to malign Piper and others does indicate a hatred of women. Piper, unlike you, is actually doing something to help abused children - all you do is whinge, when you are not googling for stats to bolster your POV.

You are not fooling anyone. Nor are you making any difference to society's failure to care for our most vulnerable people.

anti I started the thread it was about sexual assaults on children and those against such as the 30 years a victim woman.
And our failure as a nation to act.
It was meant to be about priests and churchmen, about teachers and others, all who hurt children.
I wanted us to talk about the fact kids do cry for help, and are ignored, not believed, how in the hell could we do that?
Yes your point about other harm to children is true, but I refuse to let the sexual assaults get buried under another blanket of white wash.
or the thread diverted from its subject.
Years ago in another forum a poster spoke about child love, a revolting thing, male , who told us it was ok.
Well no never ever it is the lowest act a human can do taking a child and destroying his/her whole life.
You should get off
Julies back she is doing a good job, I remain unsure if I upset her or Fractelle any one for that matter but like dwg my pain is forever, my commitment to change is too and mate I am unimpressed that any man can not feel dreadful about lives destroyed.
And sorry but you do appear to me to be very anti woman, I may be wrong but get y evidence from your posts

Thank you Belly and you must be used to me now, if upset I’d be loud and clear. Not even slightly miffed at anything from you to date honey.

It is something Anti bought up over in Articles, something about who is getting money. I’m thinking something about money is bothering him lately. And we all know money worries suck.

And money is something that I get angry about as many parents have accused me of fostering for this motive. I have 6 kids right now, one will leave tomorrow another one in 3 weeks. This income that is assumed doesn’t take in to account that for some months a foster parent can have one child then more then back to one or none. It is the nature of Short Term fostering. Not getting paid, getting paid late, kids that arrive just with a shirt on their back etc.

But on topic; the Neglected children seem to me to be the most traumatized and the hardest to bring back around again. Physically abused kids are their own tragedy.

Sexual abuse is something so different in what it does to a child. In a discussion about sexual abuse it is distracting to think of the other abuses even though it is common to find all three as a history of one small child.

The age of the child at the time or over what time can lead to different trauma and extremes. It isn’t something I can be specific about but right now I have an older girl who I don’t think will ever recover a life of abuse and detachment. The treatment of her post placement is an additional hurdle to overcome and may be the biggest hurdle yet, again I am forced to be a witness to further harm.

I was reading the newspaper yesterday and noted an article on the latest figures from the W.A. Department for Child Protection.
It stated that "...substantiated cases of child sexual abuse against fathers still far outnumber those against mothers."

It did say that mothers were 17 times more likely to neglect their children, but that fathers were responsible for 85 per cent of sex abuse cases against children.

No surprises there I suppose.
What was interesting about the article was the comments from Michelle Stubbs, spokeswoman for Adults Surviving Child Abuse W.A.

She said that the figures on neglect were probably the result of many more children being in the primary care of their mothers, who are therefore more likely to be held responsible by the Department for Child Protection in neglect cases.

Looking after children by themselves, or with new partners who may well be abusive to children too, would surely lead to more cases of physical and/or emotional neglect by their stressed mothers.

Who is to say that if all these children were left in their father's care alone, instead of the mothers, that the neglect numbers would be any less amongst children?

One thing is for sure, having worked in the health industry for many years, there are far more emotionally and physically wrecked children and adults in the health system with sexual abuse in their past, than those with neglect in childhood.

All forms of child abuse need to be stamped out, but child sex abuse is far more likely to go un-noticed by anyone else for too long than any other form of abuse.

Suzy:”… child sex abuse is far more likely to go un-noticed by anyone else for too long than any other form of abuse.”

Of course – that’s not said in an “I knew that” kind of way that was more a “oh my god” I never even thought of it like that before. I should have since this thread started with the 30 year story.

Do you know what else I have been made aware of for the first time recently – even the young women who have been sexually abused are scared they will also become pedophiles because that is what they read and see everywhere about the cycles of abuse. I imagine the young men in the same situation have even more self doubt.

Do you or did you have the Stop the Cycle campaign? There was something worded similar in NZ. This is no good; I think it would have or has, done more harm

Not far away from me a young couple struggle to bring up the husbands sisters children.
He is half my age, far different from me, but living my life in front of my eyes.\He works very long hours, he goes without, he puts those kids in front of him and his lady.
He loves those kids, lives for them, gives as I did too much.
When I started my life as alternative father to my siblings then nephews and nieces it was less common.
Grand parents did it, often but not in the massive numbers we see now.
Can you believe the total number of people living within the less than ten towns and villages number fewer than 100.000?
Four times that at Christmas, yet I can name 20 family's doing the work pied Piper is doing.
In caring for 50 kids on any day?
Know some who have lost 8 kids via grog and drugs, and that many of those kids have been sexually assaulted.
Watching a shy little brown eyed girl head down and unwilling to talk, knowing she s a victim, it hurts.
I make no charges just a statement of fact.
Far too many have commited this horrible act, feel they have done no wrong, and undermine any effort to spotlight the fact it is one of the worst crimes you could commit.
Lady's never be too defensive about what sex is responsible, both are equally and far too often.
To ignore that is as blind as defending a pedophile because he/she is sorry.

TPP:"This income that is assumed doesn’t take in to account that for some months a foster parent can have one child then more then back to one or none."

and why would that matter if the money is all spent on the kids anyway?

I'm disappointed, Jewels. I thought you were a pretty honest person. At the moment, with 6 kids in care, you're getting paid about $60,000 a year tax-free, equivalent to a salary of $100,000. If that all goes on the kids, i'm impressed, but it doesn't really, does it? You said yourself some time ago that you decided to do this originally because it meant you could stay home and not have to work. Good for you and what you do is important, so there's no need to try to pretend you're unpaid. That's just dishonest.

Belly, no one, including me, thinks that kids who are sexually abused are undeserving of support. Where we differ is in our emotional response to the subject. I was never sexually abused, although by today's definitions I did get physically abused - Dad was a dab hand with the strap and Mum could swing a mean wooden spoon or "board of education" - so were all the other mums and dads. As far as I'm aware, I don't know anyone who was sexually abused as a child. I do know that the total numbers are very small, according to the latest figures, while the numbers suffering in other ways are far greater.

There is a review about to be conducted into the shared parenting laws. Of the categories of abuse, only sexual abuse is predominantly committed by males, yet that is the only form of abuse that is being discussed.

If the review decides to recommend rescinding the shared parenting laws, as may well be the case with much public hyteria being whipped up by government-funded Feminist groups, those kids who are abused by Mum and her boyfriends will skyrocket. Even the numbers sexually abused will increase, since Mum's new boyfriend is much more likely to do it than Dad is.

Anti I don’t know what you’re like but I couldn’t stay home and not do anything – I’d rather stay home but to do what? There is a need for short term carers, crises care and respite care. I’m good at it –little children do well here and get ready for the next step. Having met some foster parents there is no way I would stop because I don’t like the alternatives for the kids.

The fostering money does go on the kids Anti… but if one arrives without anything or I don’t get paid for another it gets spread around more. As I said to Belly, the children come and go and right now 6 but in three weeks there will be four with another one transitioning home after that. I might get another, at one point last year I had ten. Three homeless children arrived and they had nothing but what the clothes they were standing in. It is an easy 350.00 on each kid to get them the clothing they need.

Anti if you need proof of how much I do for these kids, their playroom and toys their clothing and beds etc I can pass some photos through Graham. Every caseworker I know has said they haven’t come across a caregiver before that without having their own children of the same age has provided so much. Having not been here long the start up for us was over 30,000.00 in renovations to create a bedroom and big playroom full of toys. Having fostered in NZ we knew what was needed.

No kid leaves the way they came; they go with all their new toys and a new wardrobe of nice clothing. And before anyone says I shouldn’t explain myself – yes I should. It is tax payer money.

Now if someone could explain why a NGO foster parent with the same children gets double what my kids get I’d love to know. Because it isn’t like they are made to send them to private school or have a certain standard of care.

suzeonline, "One thing is for sure, having worked in the health industry for many years, there are far more emotionally and physically wrecked children and adults in the health system with sexual abuse in their past, than those with neglect in childhood.

All forms of child abuse need to be stamped out, but child sex abuse is far more likely to go un-noticed by anyone else for too long than any other form of abuse.'

First, it is particularly unhelpful to separate sexual abuse from other forms of abuse and the much larger child neglect because there are interrelationships, the causes are complex and a holistic approach is essential;

Secondly, neglect and other forms of abuse are well known to result in severe psychological problems, many chronic; and

Finally, all forms of abuse and neglect are equally unreported.

The news is exception reporting. Sex crimes are newsworthy for Tracey on ACA and the tabloid media.

First
Belly if you felt threatened in anyway with what I have said I apologize that was not my intention. I have no intention to want to know your personal details I just wanted somewhere to send the proof of what the bastards have done to an innocent child while I have had to sit on my hands, as to do what I wanted to do is "Antisocial" behaviour, that proof I wanted to send as I expect noboby to believe me unconditionally.
Secondly Anti get off TPP's case I am as chauvinistic as any man. I have seen the photos that TPP talks of so lay off aye?
Third I will continue on "What's Your Rant" thread because this thread as Belly said is about "Child Sexual Abuse"
Thanks from Dave

dwg:"Secondly Anti get off TPP's case"

Oh dear, the white knight syndrome strikes again. I'm not on her case, just pointing out that she isn't an unpaid slave to her saintly obsessions.

She's someone who has chosen to make something of a career out of fostering and that's fine - she's obviously dedicated and she should be paid. If she feels she's not paid well enough, she should say so and agitate for more, but she shouldn't claim that $60,000 or so tax-free is all spent on the infants she cares for. I have 2 children of my own, one of whom is a teen girl. The direct cost of supporting them is not $20,000 per year, even with the high maintenance cost of a teenager and the activities they do.

Perhaps if more people were aware of the potential to make a career out of it, there would be more carers? Aren't more carers needed?

TPP:"if someone could explain why a NGO foster parent with the same children gets double what my kids get I’d love to know. "

How does that work, Jewels? Is the payment not a standard Government amount? Where does the additional money come from?

As I keep saying, Jewels, I don't doubt you do a good job, only that it costs as much as you say it does.

A-septic

You continue to attack people for no more reason than they disagree with you. Now your target is Piper.

You still fail to offer any practical suggestions for protecting children, you still malign women.

Well, one thing you have achieved is that you have proved yourself a bully. I suspect if you are a bully on an online forum, you are probably one in the real world, which would explain why you do not form successful long term relationships with women. I admit this is conjecture, however, you offer nothing to indicate otherwise. BTW, this is not an ad hominem attack - it is an observation based on the consistency of your posts over a long period of time.

As I said you are fooling no-one - not even other men on this forum who would understand the grief you have no doubt experienced in your life.

It is your choice to continue to alienate yourself from others, it is my responsibility to call a halt to your bullying and to draw attention to your unwarranted denigration of others.

Cornflower, I was not trying to downgrade other forms of abuse than sexual abuse, but I thought this thread was about sexual abuse?

It seemed to me that many other contributors to this thread were using it as a forum for their own anti-mother/female agendas, and I was pointing out that it is far less likely to be women committing sex crimes against children. Am I wrong?

Have you worked in community health, Aboriginal health, mental health units, paediatric wards or in emergency wards as an R.N.?
I have, for over 25 years.
I know what is happening out there right now because I have been in their homes and watched abuse, and I have received them in the hospital wards after the abuse has hurt them.

I will always stand up for women and children in our community who have been abused by men, because it is well known who most often comes out second best physically, should a physical altercation take place. This will never change.

Fractelle, good on you for standing up to 'septics bullying. By the way, 'aseptic' means no infection or clean, whereas 'septic' means infected- a far better term for him!

Anti are you listening? I don’t always have 6 kids, this is not any regular incoming monies. I do spend it on the kids. Each kid a new wardrobe and all their own toys need buying. It isn’t like normal parenting where you gather stuff over time, from birth. I do spend it on the kids Anti. They eat good food, they have nice beds and linen, good clothing, and the coolest toys. Wear and tear means continually purchasing new stuff but linen and big toys etc stay so husband knows I want that to come out of “our” money not the kids allowance.

Hubby’s income is over 111,000.00 hence we don’t get benefits the carers on benefits and no other assistance of any kind.

You can make money if you are “another” sort of carer. And more benefits if an unemployed couple and DoCS will even write you a nice little letter telling Centrelink you don’t have to look for work.

Okay so we established I get approx 400.00 a fortnight per child. If I had the same child through Life Without Barriers I would be getting 800.00 a fortnight per child.

They say they do special needs kids – no they take any kid. They have received some from me – from one day to the next suddenly the kid is worth more. DoCS fund the NGO’s – they fund the kid and the administration of the child. Last report I read in the paper each child to this NGO comes with 5,000.00 a fortnight. And these kids DoCS wont go look at even if you ask them to.

I don’t think I claimed any sainthood, or slave status. I think I say often I like the kids, enjoy the kids and I like being at home.

Anti I hate this – I get this over on Altnews where I am a “pedophile who gets paid while treating the kids like pets”. I don’t need or do it for the money and I do not spend the children’s money on anything but them.

This morning sex drugs and rocken roll is headlines, surprising who is defending harm to a child if it took place in another thread.
Often grog and or drugs are used as the reason awful acts are commited.
And we must never except any excuse, Anti , is well described here by another poster.
Yet may well be a good person unable to hide some pain.
But I find reason to be insulted by the thought I am too emotional about this subject.
To condemn any human any sex that harms women and children is a strength never a weakness.
To those who wish for a better life for released pedophiles, ok but NEVER at the risk to children, never at our financial costs feather bed such a product of unwed parents.
Julie never change never let unwarranted slurs blind you to the joy of holding a kid who needs love to forget the pain, in your arms.
Anti I am alpha male still but can never put sexual crimes in the back ground.
I think devaluing it is a reason we fail to confront it .
What if it had been you? or me? or our kids if we can not do better we are not worth much.

suzeonline,

yes you were wrong and there is where you erred: "there are far more emotionally and physically wrecked children and adults in the health system with sexual abuse in their past, than those with neglect in childhood."

As I pointed out, the numbers harmed (and seriously) from neglect are far higher than for sexual abuse.

This is not to diminish the awful crime of sexual abuse, however where the (politicised) sexual abuse tail swings the larger neglect dog there will inevitably be skews and disruption to policy and funding which hamper the direction and co-ordination of effort.

What I said and it bears repeating is exactly what all government health departments concerned with child care, health and wellbeing have been saying for years: "it is particularly unhelpful to separate sexual abuse from other forms of abuse and the much larger child neglect because there are interrelationships, the causes are complex and a holistic approach is essential"

How simple is that?

Cornflower:”What I said and it bears repeating is exactly what all government health departments concerned with child care, health and wellbeing have been saying for years: "it is particularly unhelpful to separate sexual abuse from other forms of abuse and the much larger child neglect because there are interrelationships, the causes are complex and a holistic approach is essential"”

So if they find it unhelpful they probably haven’t been doing it? I mean separating out the abuses for statistic purposes or something?
Holistic... okay maybe in health, it certainly isn’t my field. I find it particularly helpful to know which abuses have visited a child. A combination is one thing but if only sexual abuse my approach with the child is very different.

But sometimes I find months in to a placement or months after they’ve left why a child was in care.

Cornflower:”As I pointed out, the numbers harmed (and seriously) from neglect are far higher than for sexual abuse.”

I am just not believing any numbers. Caseworkers tell me that neglect is a difficult one to prove. Emotional abuse near impossible. Sexual abuse can occur off and on in a child’s life but not proven.

Now if stats on neglect are on the rise then what has the government done with its word changing in mandatory reporting from “harm” to “significant harm” – they will miraculously and rapidly lower these stats

thought i would try to find the..meaning of..significant harm

http://www.google.com.au/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=gd&q=define+significant+harm&hl=en-GB&rls=MEDA,MEDA:2008-36,MEDA:en-GB

mainly pdf links
[PDF]Significant Harm DefinitionFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
http://www.leedsinitiative.org/uploadedFiles/Children_Leeds/Content/Standard_Pages/Levels_of_Need/Significant%20Harm%20Definition.pdf

The concept of..'Significant harm'..(Children Act 1989)..is the threshold that ... Whether the harm suffered by a child is..'significant'..is determined by ...

The Definition of Significant Harm 1.1 The Children Act 1989 ...
http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://docs.google.com/gview%3Fa%3Dv%26q%3Dcache:GAqNa8AfNlkJ:www.leedsinitiative.org/uploadedFiles/Children_Leeds/Content/Standard_Pages/Levels_of_Need/Significant%252520Harm%252520Definition(1).pdf%2Bdefine%2Bsignificant%2Bharm%26hl%3Den%26gl%3Dau%26sig%3DAFQjCNE-4cO1sfJltdU8WVORnAxvPEjpvg&ei=aGG9SprEDc6IkQXZzLUd&sa=X&oi=gview&resnum=2&ct=view&usg=AFQjCNFgRMlwZI4Lt9qXWRIflW_YsEln_Q
The child is suffering,..or is likely..to suffer significant/harm; and ... significant harm...Consideration of the severity of illtreatment may include the ...
-
Social care for children and families
http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/childrenfamilies.nsf
Stay Safe Service provides assessment,..support and intervention in situations where children..are thought to be at risk of significant harm ...

[PDF] Policy definition of Risk of significant harmFile Format: #
http://docs.google.com/gview%3Fa%3Dv%26q%3Dcache:VMMIbQqxKKcJ:www.community.nsw.gov.au/docswr/_assets/main/lib100040/rosh_definition.pdf%2Bdefine%2Bsignificant%2Bharm%26hl%3Den%26gl%3Dau%26sig%3DAFQjCNHfdAGKEQtVHzm_zD2wRfCwjils_Q&ei=aGG9SprEDc6IkQXZzLUd&sa=X&oi=gview&resnum=4&ct=view&usg=AFQjCNFAOt-dqADeNfppvKYHhrqoRFK3WQ

Preamble to policy definition of significant harm ... A child or young person is at risk of significant harm if the circumstances that are ...
http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/familyandcommunity/childprotection/usefulinformation/significantharm/

harmThe Children Act 1989,..introduced the concept of significant harm as the threshold that justifies compulsory intervention in family life in the best ...

Social Care Online:..The Children Act definition of 'significant
http://www.scie-socialcareonline.org.uk/profile.asp?guid=4a3628e8-f167-4311-8e3a-f0aae474f1d3
...Explores the interpretations of the Children Act 1989 definition of 'significant harm'. Pays particular attention to thresholds for intervention introduced ...

[DOC] DEFINITIONS, CONCEPTS and THRESHOLDS
http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:e3q9-5YHdiUJ:extranet.onesuffolk.co.uk/scb/Shared%2520Documents/DEFINITIONS,%2520CONCEPTS%2520AND%2520THRESHOLDS.doc+define+significant+harm&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

The Children Act 1989 introduced the concept of significant harm as the threshold ... the child is suffering, or is likely to suffer, significant harm;-

http://kidsneedmums.co.uk/2007/03/21/are-you-causing-significant-harm-to-your-children-if-you-have-bipolar/

Are you causing "significant harm"..to your children if you have ...21 Mar 2007 ... This harm would considered significant if his/her health or .... Of course,..any parent like my mother is causing significant harm to their ...

kidsneedmums.co.uk/.../are-you-causing-significant-harm-to-your-children-if-you-have-bipolar/..Keep Them Safe update..What is risk of significant harm?..After extensive consultation involving around 200 government and ...
http://www.bigresponsemail.com.au/display.php?M=2037258&C=659fef30ef088f3f9ab8d5435f1a71ad&L=2881&N=2687

The Children Act definition of..'significant harm'—interpretations...
http://doi.wiley.com/10.1111/j.1365-2524.1996.tb00043.x

'significant harm'...Particular attention is paid to thresholds for... were suffering or likely to suffer significant harm...Conclusions are...
http://doi.wiley.com/10.1111/j.1365-2524.1996.tb00043.x

Belly
How can anyone be accused of being too emotional about first child sexual abuse then any other form of abuse of children
You or any decent person should feel insulted by that accusation.
It is worse though when a person is accused first of "Bashing & Starving " a child and then told by the departments representative in Court that they never believed that
Then the allegation that you emotionally abused that child by domestic violence with cops answering your home but no police records of this and on 18 months Probation the time that all this domestic violence is supposed to be occurring yet not one concern recorded by the Probation Officer
Then that my child was taken because of the ex's amphetamine addiction
Then now the greatest accusation is that I am supposed to have sexually abused him
I have seen my son for 10-15 minutes since October 2000
DoCS don't consider that there is some problem with this whole affair
My teachings were that there is no gender with child abusers they are all CHILD ABUSERS
Peadophiles in society should NEVER be allowed let alone financially assisting them give the money to people like TPP they will use it in a more fitting way
Thanks have a good life from Dave

dwg you and I know your story is true and many hundreds if not thousands of others have such storys to tell.
In fact Dave those storys are part of our failure, us our country and our justice system has and continues to fail.
Your ex could be the ex of many I know, sexual abuse that NEVER HAPPENED is a weapon often used.
Very often.
And the children involved are victims nearly as much as if it had been true, stolen from a parent.
Only lately have fathers got an equal chance.
Bloke I need to explain why I am reluctant to unmask, to make too many new contacts.
My job is my life, my chance to make a difference, I work long hours much more than 8 and am flat out.
I promised myself after I did great self harm by letting my name out, and suffered at work, I would not do it again.
Putting my e mail out to one could mean 100 or 1.000 new contacts.
I am over loaded, those who know me warn me I am burning the candle at both ends.
But Dave I truly, honestly, think if you do not commit totally are not passionate about it you should not have My job.

Belly
Thanks, for saying what I say is true, it is just that for to long I am the LIAR everyone else is telling the TRUTH even like I say I have a reciept from the Attorney-Generals Library but still I am the LIAR.
I will say this though CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE NO EXCUSE it is a different show to all other forms of child abuse
After reading AND understanding John Bowlby Attachment and Loss all other forms can be explained but the rotten bloody peadophiles should be dead but it is "ANTI-SOCIAL" behaviour to do what we did the other side of the wall, so why not do the same as my people did to those that had wronged, banish them to the wilderness(ie desert) away from the "tribe"
It just hurts so bloody much knowing what low life exists not only in the town of birth but in your own bloody so called family and relations that is why I used to just pack the swag and go hoping that when I went back they may have changed but they never will
I honestly don't know an answer to stop it, all other forms I can see an answer too and reasons for it
Also I will agree this thread is for the discussion of Child Sexual Abuse that is why I tried to get Anti to go to the rant site
Thanks you have a good life and don't burn yourself out the kids need someone fighting for them and I don't think I will be here much longer
All the best from Dave

I think we have stalled Dave, the thread had some good comments some bad and some that made me spotlight the poster and ask why?
remember Dave, never forget, flippancy in such matters is worth watching and can be a symptom of something worse.
Yes you and I understand, Foxy and Fractelle will continue to care.
TPP will continue to love and care, to make us smile and kids laugh.
Suzyonline will understand and condemn.
But we failed, you and I could get together and start a new crusade for kids, or join an existing one.
But we only have so many years left not enough.
Next week maybe today, the papers will tell us of child rape , maybe a priest, parent, teacher, father, brother, we will see more concern for released ofenders.
Another story of drugged parents killing or harming a child.
We while just out shopping may see kids who need a wash a feed and a mum or dad who is aware how very lucky they are to have them.
However dwg just maybe you or I can light a fire in a younger person, that fire may one day drive some one to say our children MUST never be left in the wrong hands EVER and it is never wrong to care for kids as much as self.

Belly,
Yes, it has stalled
Yes, we will read again and again like you say if not today then tomorrow
Yes, The Courts will continue to let these bastards go
Yes, Solicitors and such will continue to defend them
Yes, Even up here the "Powers That Be" are more interested in getting me at all costs while they allow these very Predators to roam the street
Yes, they will gaol me in the new year because I finally snapped when I found out my ex was the one that was keeping our son from us after putting up with all her shite for 9years while she blamed all that shite on the loss of our son
Yes, DoCS etc will continue to place the kids in homes that are unsuitable
Yes, drugs(Alcohol as well it is a drug)will continue to grow in use as more and more do the same as my people did to blind themselves to thier own hurt then the cycle will continue
Just to many yes's, I am busted physically from a ton of steel that I tried to catch in 85 from 12' and am worn out but I will continue to carry the hurt for the children as it may help them not to suffer just tyhat little bit less
Maybe just maybe someone will be able to muster the troops to stop it but I don't think I will be hear to see it
If ever you want to connect e-mail graysond49@yahoo.com mobile 0421 949 734 and if you are in Gatton anytime before the New Year then I would be pleased to meet you
You look after yourself may the Lord shine on you and your family well
God bless from Dave

Belly, what do you think should be done? We know you care, so what should we do? What can be done that isn't? What is being done that shouldn't be? Is it even possible to do anything or is it part of the spectrum of human behaviour and can never be eliminated?

The WA figures said there were just over 20 verified cases of sexual asault of children in a year. You said you think the figure is much higher: how much higher? How do we find out?

Just a little over a hundred years ago the child bride was common. In some parts of the world, she still is. Were our ancestors all perverts?

Anti
The "child bride" was when the life expectancy was much less humans bred at pubity which was around 14-15 years of age back then.
Even in my life time I have seen where when I went to school we were in 9th or 10th grade before shielas got boobs but have a look at them today
Boys at the same age were mostly into being with thier mates playing sports etc
The human race took until approx. the 1800's to get the first billion people in the world
The illicit drug scene gives rise to the protection of the scum that prey on children because the addicts want to protect thier supply
Remember only in my time alcohol was illegal for my people but the "Respectable People" that took the grog to my people got them "addicted" to it as it covered our pain
There is JUST NO EXCUSE today the world is over populated and the wrongs that have occurred in the past have not been learnt from
If you forget the wrongs of the past you are sure to err in the future
Like I say I cannot answer why this garbage of child sexual abuse is continuing
All other forms I can reason an answer for but:-
Child Sexual Abuse NEVER there is just not a valid answer and it only sickens me to even talk on it but someone has to bring it into the open and we must protect those that would EXPOSE it not persecute those that STAND against it
ANTI I hope this answers a little BUT:-
have a good life from Dave

Hey OUG, thanks for the links. This is the change:

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/nswbills.nsf/0/0C23593002B1ACBCCA25756E0021E66C?Open&shownotes

“(i) to raise the “risk of harm” reporting threshold so that a child or young person will not be reported to the Director-General of the Departmentof Community Services (DoCS) unless the circumstances that are causing concern for the safety, welfare or well-being of the child or young person are present to a significant extent, and (ii) to extend the circumstances when a child or young person is at risk of significant harm to include the situation when the child or young person is not receiving an education as required by the Education Act 1990, and (iii) to provide for alternative mandatory reporting arrangements under which matters relating to children being at risk of significant harm may initially be assessed within the reporter’s agency instead of being reported directly to DoCS, and…”

Anti:”The WA figures said there were just over 20 verified cases of sexual asault of children in a year. You said you think the figure is much higher: how much higher? How do we find out?”

Verified? Personally I would add at least three zeros to that figure.

I would say those figures are about it being proven in court. Once they have a kid in care if they disclose other stuff that has happened. I bet those ones are about “convictions” and bugger all parents actually get charged for what they have done. The stats on why a child was initially placed in care is often very different to the information that comes up later.

Child brides and our past. Maybe they were perverts, shorter life expectancy, less time to procreate etc.

What should be done? I wish I knew, start with transparency in the courts and within the department. I am never going to understand FOI files with big black crossed out bits.

Remove privacy laws for the under 18's. Actually I'm not sure how I feel about that one.

Anti good question and deserves answers, in fact it is one of the best posts in this thread.
First child brides like it or not are still taking place among some migrants in this country.
And are an Aboriginal way of life from their history, ours too.
I think we are well past that, know women and girls are not property of men.
First contact in child welfare should be from trained intervention at schools hospitals and such.
From CJ Morgans thread sex and moral education for every child at school, just say no, the slogan and report report the answer.
Take children out of dangerous homes every time, educate and monitor parents before returning them and after.
Longer prison terms for all child sex offenders and no privacy on release.
People like the headline maker should live a in some type of enclosed village for their protection and others, some form of punishment as to be for life.
Rules even education ,so judges and magistrates have to be mainstream and Have to invoke minimum sentences, we have far too many idiots on the bench.
That is a start what are your ideas?

Belly, I reckon the rate of child sexual abuse is probably as low as we can reasonably expect, especially given the rate of family breakdown.

Now, before the usual nitwits jump in with "anti hates children", that doesn't mean we should not punish those who are found to have transgressed. It means that there is in any population a certain number of people who are unable to control themselves in all sorts of situations, especially when using alcohol or other drugs. Then there are the rare psycopaths or sociopaths like the fellow who prompted this thread.

The threat of punishment is probably not a deterrent to either of those groups, but it no doubt stops any number of 20somethings from trying to pick up grade 8, 9 or 10 girls, even if it doesn't stop the girls from trying to pick up a 20something. It might even stop some men from interfering with their gf's 12 year old daughters, but if they get drunk or take a stack of eccies that deterrent is greatly weakened.

In order to prevent children being sexually abused, we would need to step in before it occurred, as well as detecting instances as soon as they happened. I can't see any way we can do that and retain the rest of the values that make our society a great thing to be part of, such as privacy, freedom to associate, due process of law, etc.

Tragically, but unavoidably, we may just have to live with what we've got and help the victims pick up the pieces when they come forward.

The only alternative is to become a much less free society, including losing any right to live behind closed doors.

The freedoms adults seem to enjoy here are the freedoms to do what they want to kids behind closed doors.

So parents can have their “behind closed door” (no idea why you want it) right Anti and we can hope society becomes more observant.

I don’t want the foster kids behind any doors. As state wards the people of the state should know what it going on with them. If the mens club believe their own stats they would not want a child with two non-biological parents, unseen and unheard.

So now you're implying I'm a paedophile, Julie. A new low, even for the OLO twitterati.

I like privacy. I'm not happy living in a goldfish bowl. You may well be, should I call you an exhibitionist? Do you and hubby just get it on in the lounge room when you feel like it? I bet it's educational for the kids...

Very many people prefer to maintain their own space for reasons other than nefarious ones. We're only somewhat social. sometimes people use that privacy to do bad things, but I think the right of the vast majority of people(who don't do anything wrong) to have their privacy outweighs what could be gained by removing it.

Besides, how could it be done? The sheer scale is simply impossible, although technological advances make it a dead cert that it will become feasible eventually.

TPP:"I would add at least three zeros to that figure"

Abracadabra, alakazaam, a figure appeared from thin air. The crowd were impressed - it was much more tasteful than the way they were usually produced...

20,000 in WA from a population of about 500,000 under 16. translated Australia-wide, that would mean over 200,000 children being sexually abused each and every year. Where are they? Such an enormous group must have enormous political power, so why do we keep hearing about how politicians aren't interested? 1 in every classroom? 30 at my kids' primary school?

I don't know what the true figure is, but I'd be surprised if the rate of sexual abuse of children, especially abuse by adults, rather than "assaults" by 6 year-olds, is above 1% in the general community, probably much less.

Some ethnic communities, especially some indigenous, have much higher rates and have lost a great deal of their privacy as a result. Is there any evidence to suggest this has reduced the rate of abuse?

Belly,
IT is sad but how bloody RIGHT you were yesterday in your post
Only today on Yahoo7 news so I would say it is 7 news Roman Polanski
Admits to having sex in 1977 with a 13 year old while he would have been 46-47 years old and world governments are calling for a Presidential Pardon saying how ridiculous it is to charge him
Other words bugger the child
What hope has any one got to stop this shite in society
Not even 24 hours from your last post
Have a good life from Dave

Anti:”So now you're implying I'm a paedophile, Julie. A new low, even for the OLO twitterati.”

I did not, don’t be so dramatic.

“I like privacy. I'm not happy living in a goldfish bowl. You may well be, should I call you an exhibitionist? Do you and hubby just get it on in the lounge room when you feel like it? I bet it's educational for the kids...”

Anti in no way do I think you want privacy to hurt kids. Stop it.

“Besides, how could it be done? The sheer scale is simply impossible, although technological advances make it a dead cert that it will become feasible eventually.”

I want foster homes checked, I want the kids in them to get regular visits from their caseworkers to see if they are okay. It seems so simple to me and I would have thought it policy but nope.

TPP:"I would add at least three zeros to that figure"

“20,000 in WA from a population of about 500,000 under 16. translated Australia-wide, that would mean over 200,000 children being sexually abused each and every year. Where are they? Such an enormous group must have enormous political power, so why do we keep hearing about how politicians aren't interested? 1 in every classroom? 30 at my kids' primary school? “

I’ve had ten in two and a half years and I am only one person Anti – only one was officially in care for this reason. They’re out there Anti – this is the denial thing. Go ask the pedophiles in jail just how many kids they each really hurt. Then do the math about how many aren’t caught because of the nature of the abuse.

“I don't know what the true figure is, but I'd be surprised if the rate of sexual abuse of children, especially abuse by adults, rather than "assaults" by 6 year-olds, is above 1% in the general community, probably much less. “

If that makes you sleep better at night…

I am away for 3 days so can not contribute much ,but I had hoped we could expand on your idea anti.
I can not except the view there is not much we can do.
Or that freedom should not be sacrificed for child safety.
I think of the pain of the kids and know you and I would be busted if it was our child.
I know no matter how many think we can do no more we just must dwg, mate take it as fact the bloke is a grub those not wanting him to pay because he is famous?
We will see it almost every week another story another life destroyed I often wonder are we in control or a few PC idiots.

TPP, "I want foster homes checked, I want the kids in them to get regular visits from their caseworkers to see if they are okay. It seems so simple to me and I would have thought it policy but nope."

Well said!

Of course government must assure itself that services being provided on its behalf comply with available policy and are obtaining best value for money.

It is not being done because they have no idea of risk management and management controls. It is not just a question of inadequate funding.

Why can't child care facilities be monitored
We have the technology and the capacity
What happened to the rule that was to be introduced in the early 90's that all interviews of children at risk is to be carried out on video as the interviewers couldn't be trusted when the child was away from the parents

A criminal has more rights than a child

I guess it has no vote potential so the pollies don't care

Thanks have a good life and for the kids there is always prayer
from Dave

Dave as you know I blew up about some wanting to compare sex crimes against children with neglect.
I still think there is a world of difference.
But must add this story it is like a stone in my gut.
A very large family, not looking for work, dodging it always in fact.
Has rented out a garage a small one to a mother and two teenage girls.
All are mentally challenged, and treated as slaves.
Truly horrible stuff.
I found out last weekend, checked [you must check] and found its true.
Bullied threatened made to work hard it is a dreadful story.
DOCS has as yet not even looked into it we are in truth a failure and in no position to blame any country for its treatment of children.

Belly
I agree that we are in no position to condemn any country
This country and its people are becoming and in most hardened and cold to our children
I do consider peadophilia as different to other forms of abuse but I am slowly changing that point of view in recent times because a lot of the other forms of abuse is becoming as a power trip and that is what peadophiles are like

The thread on Polanski was enough to see how people will actually try and defend the low life of this world
World Governments many of the Arts and etc it just amazed me
Anyway have a good life from Dave

Belly those children in a garage treated like slaves would be about on par with what would happen to them once in foster care; sometimes similar abuse, sometimes a whole lot worse and insidious.

What this department shrouded in secrecy do to the kids, and sometimes this envelopes the foster parent, is incompressible and cruel at a whole different level than any kind of normal brutality one individual can inflict on another.

At least a child can understand this sort of cruelty later while so many who have suffered while under a government wing will never grasp why because they will never ever have it explained to them. You scrutinize any step DoCS take and they close rank swiftly, deny anything said as long as it wasn’t documented and pass you on to the next double talking arse covering manager they can find. The child or anything about them will never take precedence in any conversation.

They make me feel physically sick.

We have spoken a lot about this TPP your views are close to mine I feel just like that.
Maybe I have an insight you do not, see I am dealing again with government departments at work.
In truth the only skill some heads have is in writing CVs.
Outdoor or on the ground staff are blamed for mistakes but have zero input into the work place.
White wash and total indifference is the ink these fools use.
No understanding compassion or even care is held.
one day, after I finish work, if I live to do so, I will write a book about true criminal neglect , uncaring , unknowing acts that kill and harm thousands in the publics name.
Look , believe me it is worth it, at the Victorian bush fire Royal commission so far.
What amounts to real crime, real neglect, real incompetence from all levels is standard procedure for local state governments and anything they control, horrible?
Yes but true good workers who know their jobs are told to leave their brains in the bucket at the door when arriving at work.

Belly, TPP, and others
The only way that all this crap with DoCS and etc is going to stop is by making these departments criminally liable then we might see those responsible for the children take some care and put some effort into thier work
We have got to get positive feed back from people like TPP for example
All interviews of children to be conducted on video and audio recording
Magistrates that are wholly Children Court Magistrates with proper training in the field of Children
Psychologists that are fully adapt at Children and Family problems
The monitoring of care facilties
We have a case with my son that can be proven to be criminal so why not every one that is concerned for the Children assist with breaking my son's case then we can work from there
Thanks All have a good life from Dave