I've been wondering how much does weight matter
to most of us on OLO?

Do we judge people who are overweight, differently
from people who are thin?

Would you hire a thin person in preference over
someone who was overweight?

And why?

Would you go out with an overweight person?

I'd like your reactions...

Foxy, a brave set of questions on a very controversial subject!
I believe I judge people on how they treat me and others around me.
I don't care about how much they weigh.

I have hired people of all sizes in the past- as long as they are the best person for the job.
In the health industry, the work is often quite physical though, so I have asked some of the very overweight people if they feel they are fit enough for the tasks. I also ensure every applicant has a medical clearance first.

I have never been out with an overweight person, but I don't remember one ever asking me out either!
Sue

Yes, Foxy, a brave set of questions indeed.

Without knowing what weight most of us are, it might be very easy to cause offence here, so I won't say much.

I must admit though I do tend to have a negative first impression of overweight people, which is usually mixed with a degree of sympathy if they are extremely overweight. It's never evident I would think in my demeanour as I would never treat them any differently because of it.

Rightly or wrongly though, I do tend to associate overweight with over-indulgence, which is something I don't have a lot of time for.

Foxy,

Looked at the scales this morning did we, Hmmmmm?
When My talking scales told me "one at a time please" I smashed them...problem solved boom boom(joke).
When I got fat I bought my wife a piece of chalk so she could hug a bit and chalk, hug a bit chalk etc. so I got even cuddles. But when she met my girl fiend coming the other way she got up set...Boom Boom (old 1940's song).
Seriously, Would I go out with a fat person? of course it would hypercritical, churlish as I have. Besides I'd find it hard to leave my wife home all the time as she would me. :-)
Neither of us is obese. I'm about 8 kg overweight she a little more.

I guess it depend on how fat and how the person handles it.
Take the star on 'drop dead diva' hey she's fine if her real personality is as good.
Then again, a woman tho makes no effort or takes no pride in herself wouldn't impress me.

Likewise Big women/girls dressing with bear midriff or bike shorts is a turn off as are exposed beer guts and tradie cracks on men ... Big Yuk.

Work wise it depends on the job and how big. Can they perform the job appropriately if so no problem. i.e. a 140 kg hostie/Steward on a plane perhaps not, as a comparatively sized accountant why not.

There are a plethora of reasons a person might be overweight that have nothing to do with over indulgence. Perhaps I could get a bit more exercise now I've recovered fully.

My sister in law who is a 120 kg accountant, her reasons are medical so being critical of her would be inappropriate. I do worry about her overall health though.
I tend to hold my prejudices/instant judgments under reasonably tight reign rather than revel in them and claim their natural so what the hell.

In some cases it's easier than others. After all I'm human (well almost) so I'm told ;-)

I'm a pretty thin guy. I tend to date thin or average women. I don't have a problem dating a woman who is a little heavier than me, but I wouldn't date one who was significantly heavier.

I just don't find them attractive. We can moan about that all we like, but it's not something I have any degree of control over. I simply don't react in that way. Of course, I'm not discounting the importance of personality or anything like that, but lets face it, our initial reasons for dating people tend to revolve around physical attraction.

As for hiring people who are overweight, I don't find it at all relevant. I'd see how capable they are. As far as work goes, it doesn't even enter into the equation unless their weight somehow renders them physically incapable of doing the job.

Similarly, I wouldn't have any problems if someone didn't hire me for a position such as a bouncer, because I didn't have the right build for it. It's just the reality of the situation.

Yet another great thread Foxy.
I will come to it from a different direction.
I have been over weight for half my life.
Have recently lost 19.6 kilos but put 4 back on.
I can now wear cloths of the rack and the same size I had that half lifetime ago.
I and most, well every overweight person I ever knew tell lies about food.
Just this once, I deserve it, I have big bones, I do not eat much.
And we are so jolly, happy, people including us think it is ok he/she is healthy and happy.
No not true, maybe the happiness is untrue too.
Others do judge overweight people, but I suspect none more than the person him/her self.
Over eating can be a sign of low self esteem and dieting alone can not fix that.
Now my alibi, my reason for putting that weight back on , look At time time.
I am out of bed early most days.
get the work e mails out hit the shower and road, early meeting two hours drive away.
But food? no time.
Around ten am I will eat, what ever I can get my hands on.
In truth its in my hands why come here instead of getting breakfast?
I have no got a clue

Call me shallow, but I just don't find overweight women at all attractive. Ditto for overweight men, which group i'm sad to confess I now belong to, having been slim all my life until the last few years.

Would I hire an overweight person? Depending on the task. If it was for desk work, no problem, but I've had fat blokes working in the field in the past and it rarely works well. They are more prone to injury, lack stamina and sometimes they just get in the way through sheer bulk.

On the other hand, I'd say the same for very skinny people, who often lack strength as well as stamina.

Yes, generalisations, but reasonably well-founded. Moderation in all things is the key.

Hey Foxy, these suggestions of bravery required for this topic really caught my eye. Do grownups consider this an embaressing conversation?

I’ve never hired anyone for anything so can’t really answer that part. Like if a housekeeper or nanny or something I don’t think I’d care, the kids wouldn’t care.

Weight doesn’t bother me unless you’re talking extremes and with related health problems. Weirdly in all this time I have never fostered an over-weight child. Plenty with "food issues" which are the biggest pain to deal with although better than the other "control" issue.

I have always cycled up and down in weight in two year cycles, no idea why. Doesn’t bother me and I own a cupboard full of jeans in 3 different sizes. Recently the Dr said he wants me under 60kgs, I’m getting there (much slower than when I was younger though) but only to show him how awful I will look at 5’6” and below that weight and then I’m going straight to Burger King.

My first long term partner was really tall and skinny, my husband is built like a porta-loo.

I’m surrounded by healthy young gorgeous teens most days… feeling old bothers me.[smile] I want to be a well rounded cuddly nana in the future though and not a bony one.

It is no secret that being over weight is not healthy.

Neither is it a secret that people rightly or wrongly judge others by instinctive templates of vitality.

Given that the savvy employer will realise that combat readiness or ability to produce off spring are not essential requirements for an account manager.

However, the instinctive templates people are born with lead them to assign trust and competence with those that are closest to our ideals of "vitality" which means that representatives or managers that are physically attractive find it far easier to succeed.

Until I see models on the cat walk with a more robust super structure, I don't believe this will change.

Interesting topic, Foxy. While I am waiting for the clearance to post on the animal breeding thread, I may as well add my 2 cents worth here.

I have always had a high metabolism - lucky me, although if I consider my diet; I don't over indulge in fatty sugary food either. Suffering from ME, ensures I eat healthy but does limit my ability to exercise from what I used to do. Given that I manage to stay in shape, despite the difficulties, I do question why people eat so much junk when they do not have to.

I do feel uncomfortable around very fat people, because of the contrast - I wonder if they feel uncomfortable around me? I have never dated anyone overweight.

Which leads me to ask: Am I biased against overweight people?

Extremely obese yes, I am. However, a person's weight has no bearing (pun not intended) on character. As with gender, race or religion there are good and bad obese people.

I usually wait and see - and try not to form opinions immediately and I love being surprised when someone turns out to be a truly decent and compassionate being when I wasn't expecting them to be. I admit to being more wary with fat women simply because I have been bullied by some significantly stout females. Whereas the male bullies I have encountered in my life have been of ordinary dimensions.

G'Day All,
Yes Foxy a very brave post.
Well I can't say I wont go out with a fat person because I would have to stay in & not take myself out.
I am not overwieght to the extreme & the gut that I have is a little from gravity,A gut operation & ripped muscles from an accident in 1985.
I try to stay on a see food diet(that is see food & eat it). I stack 50kg bags of spuds which I don't see many skinny blokes lining up to do but then again I am not much good at the cutting of vegies that is better left to the skinny ones that can bend a little freer than I.
An old confusius saying he who die with fat belly dies with smile on face.
With all this aids my fat gut will be a sex symbol soon as everyone will say he's a fat one he hasn't got it.
Thanks have a great life(skinny or fat) from Dave

I've never had a weight problem - sure
I've gained weight at various times
of my life - but I've always managed to
lose it. I admit I'm a bit of a "gym,"
junkie - I go three times a week, as well
as doing daily evening runs around the local
park. The reason I'm so 'gung ho' on staying
fit is probably due to the fact that
my father died of a massive
coronary at the age of 52. And although I
have never judged anyone on their appearance
alone - I have to admit that I don't find
overly overweight people particularly
attractive - mainly because of health issues.
Being overweight or underweight - is simply
not healthy. As another poster said -
"Everything in moderation."

I know that you can't change risk factors like
age and your genetic background, but you can
do something about your weight, your waist,
and how active you are and your eating,
drinking, and smoking habits. Diabetes 2, today is
a very serious health problem. But then so is
anorexia.

Many so called "contemporary ailments," are in
truth, preventable. Unfortunately, modern
medical practice focuses primarily on the
treatment rather than the prevention of the
illness. On surgery for failed hearts - rather
than preventing the habits that led those hearts
to fail in the first place.

As for hiring overweight people - I've never had
to make the choice - however, it would depend
on the job - and if the person was grossly
overweight - or grossly underweight - I would
express my concern.

The people I dated in my younger days came in all shapes
and sizes. A person's weight was not an issue
with me at the time. My father at one stage would have settled
for my bringing home anyone he could have a decent
conversation with.

david f writes, on the 'Your tribal past ...' thread in his post of Tuesday, 15 September 2009 11:30:18 AM:

"The calibre of a person can depend on weight. e.g. If you were hiring a person to be fired from a cannon it would be important to get a person of the right calibre."

It would also be important to fire him into the correct thread, david f.

But enough of my diatribe. That was too good an observation to just let go to waste in either tribal space or cyberspace. Consider yourself cannonised, O Two Dogs of the land of perpetual autumn.

I guess women don't wear those things any more. However, long ago when I was a teenager I heard of a teenage girl who said, "Mother, I'm afraid to wear your girdle. I don't have the guts."

Thank you, Forrest, for directing my fire. Thank you, Foxy, for this new thread. You've gone from "Your tribal past" to "Your tribal pasta."

One could also ask, "How much of weight is matter?" We would have the same amount of matter if we were transported to the moon but one-sixth of the weight.

Dear David f,

You've made me laugh out loud.

"Tribal past - to - tribal pasta!"
Love it - brilliant!

To Everyone,

It's interesting that until a few decades ago,
people who deviated from the ideal physical
form by being overweight were held to simply
have a personal problem of eating too much or
exercising too little. Now we give people
labels.

Physicians have succeeded in
defining obesity as a disease, to be cured by
such means as scientific diets, psychotheraphy,
or even surgery. It's a bit of a worry - when
medicine extends its influence as an agent of
social control, with psychiatrists defining
the approved norms, labelling those who
deviate from them, and trying to ensure that the
deviants conform once more. The media of course
has a big influence on the acceptable shape
we're all supposed to be in. And whether we
like it or not - we are influenced by what's
considered acceptable. Look at programmes like
"Biggest Loser." Pick up any fashion magazine
and you won't see fat people. Little girls are
worried about their dress size. The focus on
weight - seems to be all around us. Chemists
promote dietary programmes, Jenny Craig is making
a fortune, as are the organisations that provide
"slim eating," meals to your door. Doctors prescribe
diet pills and injections...
It seems that weight does matter.

Foxy

People in developed countries are more over weight than at any time in history, have access to (as you said) dietary aids, pills, potions and at the extreme end, surgery. Yet more people are developing diabetes as a result of their excess flab and there is no excuse, none.

Australia produces fabulous food, we have farmers' market on weekends, in Melbourne some of the most superb produce markets - my only regret in moving into the ranges was the great distance from the magnificent Queen Victoria Market, but there are compensations I am close to growers of chestnuts, berries, cherries and many small farms specialising in free-range, chemical free meat.

When I do have to go to the supermarket, I never cease to be amazed at the crap people are buying, trolleys heaped with frozen prepared food, ice-cream, frozen pastries and the inevitable diet soft-drinks - like that's going to make a difference.

On my last flight back to Australia (economy class as usual) I was at the very back, squashed between 2 large men - who, I have to say, tried very hard not to crowd me, however the trans-Pacific flight is long and by the time I reached Sydney, I was probably on the verge of a variety of psychotic episode that has yet to be named by the shrinks.

And then there's all that sweating and B.O. (no I am not describing my love-life) - for the overweight there is all that chafing and other nasty skin conditions that result from humidity and rolls of fat.

Well, that's enough of a rant about too much weight, just a comment about the other side of body image.

I was naturally skinny throughout my childhood, teens and twenties I WAS NOT ANOREXIC, NOR PHYSICALLY FEEBLE so next time some of you stand in judgement of a skinny girl, she's probably quite normal and eats like a grizzly bear at the end of winter. I did. And even now I get very cranky if I don't have breakfast.

Isn’t it quite recent Foxy – the weight thing, Coco Chanel and all that. Twiggy. Then at the same time along came really really fattening foods, fast food.

My doctor while being mean to me in Polish said that it is simple (but you know, freaky accent) “you must eat exactly the same every day as a five year old child”. Luckily I know exactly what a five year old eats.

To speed it up I am eating what a 3 year old eats. If I get more impatient I’ll be on 6 bottles of formula a day.

Gym is out, can’t even walk fast with the midgets in tow. At least I lift weights all day, damn shame they dribble on me.

Years ago I wasn’t paying much attention to myself and I knew I had lost weight cause baggy clothes and stuff but was just busy, I jump in the shower one morning (there was a big mirror in it) and saw all ribs poking out and bones and – I really hated it, made me feel yuck. Now I’m dieting I can’t remember what the problem was. And I think I am aiming for about the same look as well.

Hey sorry, question... if I post too much in general in 24 hours will it take away a chance to post in articles? Oh and Fractelle, yeah heaps of errors the last two days

Being overweight is being a strain on the medical system along with the added costs that go hand in hand with all sorts of sideline ailments.
You can have a weight that makes you feel comfortable, but there is a limit. I think the overweight problem we have will make the stimulus package look like peanuts in the long term. Talk about kids inheratence.

Dear Fractelle,

I've always been conscious of what my family eats
and I've always tried to maintain healthy eating
habits, that's why I buy fresh - on a daily
basis, and like you - I frequent the green grocers
and butchers - in preference to supermarket chains
for my meat and vegs.

I can identify with your airplane experience. I was
seated next to a rather large woman on a plane
once - but it wasn't her size so much but the
strength of her perfume that left me with a
raging headache. The plane was packed, so I couldn't
move or change seats with anyone. The other plane
experience was with a really big man (looked like a
sumo wrestler) who kept falling asleep and putting
his head on my shoulder. I kept nudging him - but
finally gave up. It was a long, long flight!

Dear Piper,

Don't use up all your posts on the one thread.
Otherwise you will have to wait before posting
again. It happens to me all the time.

I can't imagine you ever being overweight - the constant
array of kids will keep you young and gorgeous!
(As well as a vigorous, husband :-)...)

*An old confusius saying he who die with fat belly dies with smile on face.
With all this aids my fat gut will be a sex symbol soon as everyone will say he's a fat one he hasn't got it.*

ROFL Dave, I do love your sense of humour :)

I quite enjoy going to the supermarket and having a look what is
in peoples trollies, comparing their age and shape. There is
definately a pattern there. There will be those in their 20s and
30s, with trollies of American packet foods, most with a weight
problem. The Yanks sure know how to value add salt, sugar and lard!

Then there are those in their 40-50s, with mostly fresh produce,
which commonly are in pretty good shape.

I really enjoy cooking (its cleaning up the mess that is the problem)
so its not so much food that is a problem for me, as its all
pretty healthy.

But I'm now in my mid 50s, the old life of high stress is gone,
working for money is no longer an issue, and I really enjoy
the great red wines produced in Australia. I say that with some
knowledge,for whilst living in France for a couple of years, I got
to taste plenty of theirs and I think Australian wines are outstanding
value for money.

All things in moderation sounds great, but with such great wines,
it is easier said then done!

Ah well, in our 50s we are allowed to have a bit of a middle
aged spread, at least that is my excuse :)

Some people say there is a correlation between a person's pets weight and their own. My observations observe this is mostly true except for large ladies and little yappy dogs. At the end of the day we all grow old and wrinkly so carrying a little extra says little either way about a person's character. I think being skinny like many models today can be just as off putting as being overweight.

Dear Yabby,

Next time I go to the supermarket I'll have
to do a survey of people's trolleys (quietly -
of course). It will be interesting to check
their products with what age group I think
they belong. Great idea of yours.

I agree with you about Australian wines - I
think we can all be proud of what this country
produces. Our recent visit to Rutherglen
proved that to me.

Dear runner,

I fully agree. Being grossly overweight or too thin -
can't be good for anyone.
But I guess, keeping a balance
is not that easy for some people.
I've got to keep working at it.

I have found a few things interesting.
The view that fat people may not be good employees.
Well yes for some it is true, but country fat blokes are often as strong as an oxe.
And one poster spoke of the impacts on health costs to us all of over weight people.
It is also true but why is it healthy food costs so very much more?
And finally we tip toe around the threads subject, it does matter very much so, remember I have spent half me life as very much over weight, we do judge on appearance.
I do too, as I get back on track with my weight loss, not much to go, I use obese people to power me.
Aware of the many reasons people are fat, mainly the self indulgent lie, but other reasons too, I remind myself I am in control.
And that they are not.
Truth is health is the benefit looking better is second to being better.

Dear Belly,

You've hit the nail right on the head.
It's how you feel that's important.
If you feel well - it doesn't matter
if you weigh more that the average for
a certain height. As long as you stay
physically fit and healthy.

However, people can be made to feel
awful because of their weight.
We know that fat people are
often treated unkindly by others, including
their work colleagues, and classmates at
school. Fat people generally have less
social success than other people - and
they do find it harder to find jobs.
I don't know why that is - possibly
because most people associate fatness with
laziness, and inactivity.

Physical inactivity can lead to obesity
among all age groups. It does so especially
among children and teenagers, who are the most
active groups. Most obese young people don't eat
any more than those of normal weight. In fact,
many of them eat less. But because they are so
inactive that even with a moderate appetite,
they eat more than they need - and accumulate excess
fat.

However, if a person has been teased and made to feel
guilty, hopeless, or worthless - it's no use telling
them, "as long as you're healthy, that's all that
matters." They won't buy it - because they have to
live with the taunts. In their case - weight
does matter. They need to either seek professional
help to remove their fears about their body image,
or try to lose some of the weight.

Hiya Foxy. Well see my jeans go from 10 to 12 to size 14 – and I go up and down over two years and the Dr wants me smaller. Wonder if it makes a difference that he’s really small? No way am I going to stay an 8 (if I get there that is), I’d look scrawny and I would feel umm... well less.

Kids slow you down, you have to walk slow, you have to be around the house a lot. Most I do is playing catch where they are at one end of the street kicking them all over the place and I run and get them since their aim is mostly crap. Housework can wear you out though if you’re in a frenzy or something.

I like walking, I reckon my weight changes with the kid’s ages and stages – get a few fast walkers and a pram and I’m off! You have any advice for stationary type exercises? Hey I bought a stepper, it’s under the kitchen counter where I sit at the computer.[smile]

I have worked out over the years that small kids are much happier with small amounts of food through the day. Literally happier and more active children. A snack about two hours apart. Four of them during the day between breakfast and diner and no big dinners.

And the best place to let them eat some chocolate – halfway through a splash in the pool. Doesn’t melt and they swallow enough water after to clean their teeth. Don’t try it with popsicles, some kid always drops their one and it’s always the kid that chose lemonade and you can’t find it.

Food as a non-event is the best thing, not associated with whether someone likes you or not or if you are upset or hurt. It is just an interruption.

Good topic,

For work, I would pick the best candidate, regardless of weight.

For partners and friends I tend to socialise with fitter more active people because that's what I enjoy doing in my leisure time. Active people tend to be thinner, so I would probably be more likely to befriend thinner people.

Being a reformed fatty, I have little sympathy for the obese. If someone genuinely wants to be a healthy weight, they'll get to it.

I do, though, detest the Australian habit of mocking the overweight for exercising. Anyone who's tried to get unfat by exercising in public (cycling, jogging, gymming) will know the jeers and insults earned for actually showing a will to get fit. It simply reinforces an acceptance of being overweight and the impossibility of changing.

Dear Piper,

As long as you're active and feel healthy, I think that's all
that matters. Who cares what size clothes you wear...
That doctor should be careful with what he
prescribes.

Kids will definitely keep you fit - as for what
exercises to do whilst stationary? I could name
at least one - but I'd get banned...
I'm sure you'll be able to guess though (giggle).

I love food and cooking - however, I can't eat big
portions - maybe that helps...

Dear burbs and Sancho,

Some people are put off by fat people.
Others by skinny ones. I guess it's a matter
of choice. My friends come in all shapes and
sizes - although my closest friends do tend
to be slim. I don't know why. Maybe it's because
they're more active - and we have more in common -
rather then their actual weight.

I don't know how hard it is to lose weight - I don't
have a weight problem - but I think as long as a
person is active - they shouldn't worry too much.
If they eat a lot - but aren't active - then they
have, not only a weight problem, but a health problem
as well.

I am in shape , round is a shape
Thanks have a good life from Dave

Dear Dave,

Round is definitely a shape - and a lovely one
at that.

Some of my favourite things are round -
the moon, the stars, the planets, rainbows,
snowmen, lollipops, yo-yos, basketballs,
my favourite hats, and best of all, smiley faces ...

To be perfectly honest, I do judge people who are seriously obese. It's not that they're ugly - rather, it's that they appear to have absolutely no regard for their health. I have never had much luck with my body. I was born blue, and have had all sorts of niggling respiratory ailments my whole life. Nothing too serious, except for the couple of months when I was coughing blood and the doctors told me that I was a hypochondriac. But that's another rant altogether. These periods of sickness, coupled with my ridiculously short legs, have hindered my fitness pursuits my whole life. I run and ride like crazy, but will never be an Olympian or even a 'local hero'.

The thing is, despite my body constantly telling me that my efforts are futile, I have never given up and I have never been fat. My lungs threaten to collapse, my legs take twice the number of steps as other runners to travel the same distance (yes, that's hyperbole) but I still do it. Consequently, I stay thin and healthy - I have taken a total of three sick days from school, uni or work since I was in Year 5.

I'm aware that there are medical conditions much more serious than my own little inconveniences. Two friends have battle thyroid problems their whole lives and, as a result, are quite chubby. A few more suffer from other conditions which make fitness and good health distant dreams. I don't judge them, except to feel sorry for them because even if they wanted to be active, they couldn't.

No, I judge other people whose voluntarily sedentary lifestyles have rendered them obese. I am mellowing, though: I have come to realise that it is wrong to judge these people, simply because they don't value the things I do. If they're fat and happy, why should I judge them?

From http://whydopeoplegetill.blogspot.com/2007/03/roseto-effect.html

The Roseto effect

“This term refers to the Pennsylvanian town of Roseto, populated by Italian immigrants. …. when charted in the 1960s the inhabitants of the town scarcely suffered from any heart attacks before the age of 65, and after this age at only half the national average. And this despite usual levels of smoking, a not particularly healthy diet, and most men being employed as manual labourers.”

The town attracted attention because the mortality rates were much lower than in most other places. The people came from the same area in Italy. There was a lively community spirit, and the people were on the average about ten kilos overweight. The businesses and factories were locally owned. If work was scarce at Dom’s place one could see what’s doing at Vince’s. There was a lot of socializing accompanied by much consumption of pasta and wine. Roseto was populated by a bunch of fat and happy Italians.

The statistics indicate that a happy state of mind can override excess weight.

Dear Otokonoko,

What a positive and healthy attitude you've got!

I've got to confess that I too tend to be a bit
judgemental of obese people, (although it also
is for health reasons) - but I'm getting much
more tolerant as I grow older.

Your determination to stay healthy no matter what
life throws at you - is something I can identify with.
There have been many moments in my life - when
I almost threw in the towel. But whether it's the
determination to survive or what - somehow you find
the strength to keep going.

Dear David f,

You always come up with interesting takes on various
subjects. Thanks for the Italian story.
It confirms the importance of a happy state of mind.
You would make an excellent teacher.
I'd enrol in your class in a flash!