"The great advantage of freedom of speech is it makes it so easy to identify the assholes". -
...
Anon.

Further to my last comment, I would be very inclined to join a campaign to guarantee freedom of expression in Australian society. Indeed, the principle could well be included in the mooted Bill of Rights or whatever watered down version we end up with.

Yes, the Tobens among us should be free to promulgate their crackpot ideas. The idiotic Hilalys should be able able to preach their hateful drivel, and the 'Catch the Fear' nutjobs should be able to babble on about their Islamophobia to their hearts' content, etc etc.

Indeed, we should all be encouraged to attack vigorously each other's worldview, in as offensive terms as possible. A mechanism should be found whereby the right to disrespect each other is enshrined in the Constitution. A special Division of the Order of Australia should be awarded to the citizen who most successfully expresses communal hatred in its Australian context.

Seriously, anybody who knows me here will also know that I'm a staunch supporter of freedom of speech - but I'm not going in to bat for this tosser when there's so many more worthy causes around.

dwg wrote: "On the issue of denial & acceptance the treatment of the Jews in WW2 is not that extreme of a difference to the Palestinian treatment by the Jews."

Dear dwg,

There is a tremendous difference. There is no attempt by Israel to wipe out all the Palestinians. There was a serious attempt by the Nazis to wipe out all Jews.

David f,"no attempt to wipe out the Palestinians" I would say there is a serious effort to wipe out the Palestinians by the Israel & remove them from thier land.

I am not going to debate the Israel/Palestinian conflict as I am not in a position to change anything there although I would like to but I have more pressing committments here.

The issue with free speech is that it should leave gossip alone & stick to truth, that way we would have only the issue of truth & "the truth hurts but it is the truth", but so do does lies hurt but they are lies.

Thanks All have a happy day from Dave.

CJMorgan:"anybody who knows me here will also know that I'm a staunch supporter of freedom of speech"

Hahaha. You're a funny little man, CJ.

Just in this thread you've changed your mind about what you "believe" twice in response to what others have written. You've just possibly made the strongest case here for restriction of freedom of speech based solely on the gullibility of the audience being addressed.

Perhaps, instead of worrying about what someone says, we should worry more about the people he is talking to about it?

Now, tell me again how I'm "antiwomen" and "misogynist"and should shut up expressing my view that feminism is pernicious... you being such a "staunch" little fella and all...

CJ MORGAN wrote:

"...I'm going to wait for a less despicable example before I protest about it. It doesn't bother me very much personally that haters like Toben (or indeed the 'Catch the Fire' idiots) are restricted from spouting their filth."

It doesn't work like that. Freedom of speech is indivisible.

Technically Toben is being jailed for contempt of court. In practice it is for expressing an opinion. It is admittedly a repugnant and contra-factual opinion; but opinion is what it was.

Note that there have been no allegations of incitement to violence. Toben has not threatened anyone.

Now the precedent has been set. You can use the law to harass someone for expressing an opinion you don’t like. You can engage in "lawfare" as the Executive Council of Australian Jewry did with Toben.

The next target will be less extreme than Toben. And the next one less extreme still. So free speech, and democracy, faces THE DEATH OF A THOUSAND CUTS.

By the time we reach CJ Morgan's "tripwire" case, someone CJ Morgan considers worthy of defence, it is too late. Free speech has become so circumscribed that pundits can no longer express and opinion without worrying about the legal consequences. Self-censorship has become a frame of mind. Democracy dies.

I've seen it happen once – in South Africa. The consequences are not pretty.

Your approach is tantamount to saying I'll defend the free speech of someone who meets my approval.

The REAL test is this.

ARE YOU PREPARED TO DEFEND THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH OF SOMEONE YOU FIND REPUGNANT WITH THE SAME FERVOUR AS SOMEONE YOU ADMIRE?

If not you're not truly a free-speech protagonist. You're faking it.

EXAMINATOR

I have seen no allegations that Toben threatened anyone or incited violence. Therefore in this case your argument falls apart.

It is not me that is living in an "ivory tower" but you if you believe that free speech can survive an attack of lawyers.