CJ

Are you, therefore, saying we have no hope?

That all the Kelvin Thompsons will be silenced? That the big non-renewable resource monopolies will win out? That we will continue to breed and use up all resources until nothing is left?

I don't believe it.

I refuse to give up.

Hi Fractelle -

No, but I'm not overly optimistic. I do think that there's little likelihood that the ALP or Coalition will adopt Thomson's proposals or anything much like them - but that certainly doesn't mean they shouldn't be encouraged strongly to do so.

I think it's far more likely that a minor party like the Greens might be persuaded from within to formulate population policies along the lines that Thomson proposes, and for them to be able to exert pressure for governments of whatever persuasion to take steps in that direction.

For example, it's quite conceivable that the Greens could hold the balance of power in the Senate following a double dissolution election. If that proves to be the case, they would be well-positioned to encourage government action to stabilise our population, and to modify international aid so that it is directed towards population sustainability.

I agree that this scenario is also unlikely, but I think it's somewhat less so than the majors producing a sustainable population policy in the foreseeable future.

CJ

Last week when there was talk of a double dissolution when the ETS/RET duo failed to get through, I was hoping that would be the case. The only way is for the Greens to have a greater input into policy - keeping the bastards honest seeing as the Democrats have lost the plot on that one.

I must admit to finding it difficult to remain optimistic when intelligent people like Ludwig favour Howard over Rudd. There are times when I feel like I have inadvertently entered a parallel universe, like people wanting Costello back, 9/11, everything George W has ever said, children overboard, the world is a magic pudding of endless resource and can't be polluted - at least not by humans, Margaret Thatcher was a woman, intelligent design, we need to continue growing our cities... that's enough.

Must go outside and stare at the Mountain Ash, take a few lungfuls of fresh air - I'll feel better then.

“I must admit to finding it difficult to remain optimistic when intelligent people like Ludwig favour Howard over Rudd.”

Fractelle, I wouldn’t favour Howard over a pile of pig manure for PM! But yes I would favour him over Rudd !!

What makes Rudd so much worse is that he has entrenched the continuous expansion paradigm…and boosted it.

Yes it is awfully hard to be optimistic when someone who seemed so promising turns out to be so dismal.

I hope your sortie amongst the regal Eucalyptus regnans was refreshing.

I think I’ll wander down the back yard and sit in the dark under the Leichhardt tree, contemplate my navel and start wailing in chorus with the bush stone-curlews ( :> (

It is so bloody obvious that any species cannot keep increasing in numbers indefinitely without eventually suffering a disastrous crash. Kelvin Thomson stated something that should have stated long ago by some political figure. I was very impressed by the essays Rudd wrote on Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the economic system. I wish he would go to writing essays full time and let people like Thomson who at least are aware there is a problem try to do something about it. Howard lied, manipulated, appealed to prejudice, removed barriers between church and state and tried to roll back the gains of labour, but he was not as remote from reality as Rudd seems to be.

“I think it's far more likely that a minor party like the Greens might be persuaded from within to formulate population policies along the lines that Thomson proposes, and for them to be able to exert pressure for governments of whatever persuasion to take steps in that direction.”

CJ, yes you’d think that the Greens would be MUCH more likely to embrace the population issue than either the libs or labs, given that their political paradigm is apparently much more closely aligned.

But I don’t think they will!

Why on earth it has taken someone like Kelvin Thomson to elucidate the basics of continuous population growth, instead of Bob Brown, Christine Milne or anyone else in the Greens is just beyond me.

I just get the feeling that the grizzly old Greens just ain’t gunna go for it, even if Thomson is successful in triggering a major debate and garnering massive support. There is something terribly wrong with the Greens.

I think that Turnbull or his replacement, and even KRudd, are more likely to move towards Thomson’s way of thinking before the Greens even budge!

Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong.