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The Forum > General Discussion > Torture's OK mate, but would you try it at home?

Torture's OK mate, but would you try it at home?

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We truly do not know until we are faced with it.
Most of us will have seen that experiment, long ago the one that gave electric shocks, or seemed to, in increasing levels of pain.
Many Joe averages did without complaint thinking they truly hurt people.
I may have done it too, a long time ago I might just have followed the orders.
Now, sorry never,
Without reserve I would kill my enemy's but never torture.
Those who say they would must ask themselves what they would think if their son/daughter/ father/mother/child was tortured?
If our troops captured in say Iraq got tortured, just maybe among those who say yes I would torture are some who would condemn others for doing just as they say they would.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 12 August 2009 5:14:46 PM
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When I lived in Germany with a German family their 18-year old son asked me what I would do if we were in opposite armies facing each other, if I would shoot him. I explained that we would be enemy forces and I would not hesitate to do so if it was needed and he responded he would do likewise. After all who was to say the other would recognise and not shoot?
As such, I accept that in times of war one may end up killing someone no matter of a close friendship there existing otherwise being a soldier to defend others. However, nevertheless otherwise I deplore the killing and so also the torture of people. Neither would I ever have served in attacking another nations. My service in NATO was one of defence.
Torture is not some split second conduct as one may be in with an opposing army where it is too shoot or being shot, as torture is in a controlled situation. Torture is often used on innocent people because those exercising the torture wouldn’t know the guilty from innocent people.
We always may find some excuse to justify the torture even upon innocent people but lets not go down that path.
Keep in mind that terrorist, if you want to call them as such, often learn their tools of trade of a disregard of human lives because of what they themselves may have had to endure at the hands of others, generally their opponents. As such it is a never-ending escalating abuse and misuse of violence.
Just consider yourself becoming the victim of torture because you are wrongly suspected of wrongdoings. Would you really then support torture?
.
I for one prefer to do without any form of violence as after all we all are entitled to peace and tranquillity.
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Wednesday, 12 August 2009 11:48:19 PM
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In the light of the KS and crew debacle and GY's question I wondered if my concern was that what the girl suffered was tantamount to torture for entertainment.
This prompted a few other questions.
What IS torture?
Where is the line
During the debate someone asked “was it the way it was done” that caused the public outcry.
I maintained it was because the victim was under aged and that it was simply torture for entertainment to gain profit.

There are how ever a couple of other situations I would like to throw into the mix.
There was a doco recently in which the subjects were isolated for days in order to observe their tolerance level of being dehumanised. (is this entertainment?)
Next , some year ago a high tech prison was built in Victoria to accommodate “the worst of the worst' in this prison prisoners were under constant 24 hr. surveillance. Given that prisons are notorious for creating violent subcultures . Why then the outrage..
Finally Gitmo. Apart from the the ignored legal niceties, the overreaction , water-boarding etc. all of which yielded no worth while “evidence” and the US claimed real security issues . Wasn't the level of general dehumanisation
simply torture (revenge and fear )
and clearly counter productive in the long haul simply upping the ante.?
I can't see any clear or absolute justification for these practices.
Does it all come down to the vagaries of motive and methodology?
To me it's a matter of Humanity.
Posted by examinator, Thursday, 13 August 2009 11:07:46 AM
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There is an issue of consent here Examinator.

The Vile and Tacky stunt can't be torture because the girl consented. Or maybe it can, if the situation goes beyond what is consented to. But then, who is going to know, as the consent is so vague.

In any case, you can't discuss torture without some discussion about consent and degrees of coercion. (I don't think all coercion can be classified as wrong.)
Posted by GrahamY, Thursday, 13 August 2009 11:34:07 AM
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If we are to allow torture how can we then condemn others when they use torture?

Runner, your post deeply shocked me. You are a follower of Jesus Christ. Does the righteousness of your belief stem from His message, His teaching and life?

The right to defend yourself in situations like you described is more akin to what some Islamists intrepret their Holy Book says.
Posted by Anansi, Thursday, 13 August 2009 11:37:19 AM
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Have we learned nothing from history?

We've had regimes in the past who built and
expanded concentration camps in which millions
of innocent victims perished. Regimes that despised
and mistrusted democracies. Regimes that used the
same methods to deal with their domestic opposition -
terror.

Regimes that raised torture, suppression, and murder
to a science.

Do we really want to go down that path?

As a recent editorial in my local paper stated:

"While no one believes complacency is a desirable
approach to alleged terrorist threats. It is also
true that this should not equate to chronic
suspicion of outsiders. Our communities should be
made up of the vigilant, not the vigilantes.

Communities across our country have shown their
resilience in the face of similar concerns before.
They must do so again to demonstrate how the fabric
of our neighbourhoods relies on an essential decency
and tolerance to function properly.

Extremism by its very definition is rare. We need to
be aware of its potential threat, but not be crippled
by fear."
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 13 August 2009 11:42:57 AM
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