I remember a quote from the movie 'Seven' years ago...

'On the subway today, a man came up to me to start a conversation. He made small talk, a lonely man talking about the weather and other things. I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head hurt from his banality. I almost didn't notice it had happened, but I suddenly threw up all over him. He was not pleased, and I couldn't stop laughing.'

Being the resident OLO psychopath I can relate to this on some level. There is something about middle aged men in cheap suits that brings these kind of feelings for me too!

Is it the sadness, the look of beaten, world weary acceptance and conformance to the system? I can imagine the lonely soul-less existence towing the company line 'til late every evening and coming home to lonely nights in front of TV dinners, or else the slow death by a thousand cuts from the nagging wife, the fear of losing the job then the house then the family overriding any sense of freedom. The 'struggle', the walking dead look that the cheap suited middle management man seems to wear.

In contrast I don't see this same kind of sadness in your average construction worker or manual labourer or even the crazy long hours small shop owner. Perhaps because they see the sky and don't have that skin that looks somehow stained by the fluorescent lighting. I suppose that they wear no symbol of conformance like the tie may also have something to do with it.

I know this sadness of the struggle has been expressed a lot in other films like Train-spotting (The choose life speech at the start in comparison to Heroin), American Beauty and All or Nothing, but I'm still always left wondering if I'm the only psychopath that finds this so distasteful. The waste of a soul. I'd love to feel more pity, but somehow the image of the suit and tie, the middle aged spread, the balding comb-over and glasses just fills me with loathing.

That's completely weird, Houellebecq

>>...somehow the image of the suit and tie, the middle aged spread, the balding comb-over and glasses just fills me with loathing.<<

Amazingly, that is almost word-for-word the image that I have of you when I read your posts.

You missed out the bit about dropping ash on the floor next to the worn-out armchair that you sit in while watching re-runs of Baywatch, and the images of you sifting the big bits out of the kitty-litter so that you can use it again.

But apart from that, picture-perfect.

Amazing.

Pericles, you owe me a glass of single malt scotch, and very nearly a new keyboard.

On a recent trip down to Brisbane, I had two startling discoveries in less than 24 hours.

The first came on the plane, as I sat next to a middle-aged man in a cheap suit wearing fascinatingly ugly shoes. I am not a shoe person, but I couldn't stop looking. I spent some time wondering what had happened in his life to make him think that purchasing such disgusting footwear was desirable or even acceptable; I was also horrified at his generally angry and impatient behaviour. I sat on the plane for two hours hoping that I would never turn out like that.

The next day, I spent a lot of time in an expensive suit attending meetings and wandering around the CBD. I don't usually wear suits, I only own two ties and I NEVER get to spend time in the city. What was my reaction? I kept thinking to myself 'I want a piece of this!' It was so much more exciting than the boring suburban high school that accommodates my working life. There was a feel of ambition, of wealth, of success - none of which I see on a regular basis.

So how do these ambitious, wealthy, successful people turn into cheap suit wearing, ugly shoe buying angry middle-aged men? What are the warning signs? How can people save themselves?

I suspect Houellebecq's attitude may be more a reflection on "HOUELLEBECQ" rather than old men in cheap suits (that is if he's actually serious, which I very much doubt - - - - - surely nobody could be THAT stupid).

Is it the cheap suits that seem to upset you ladies, or the cheapskates that they are a symbol of. Shakespeare had some words to say about clothes. Expensive thy dress as thy purse can stand but not expressed in fancy.

I once knew a few country members of Parliament, genuine blokes who used to romp in every election in safe seats, and apart from their parliamentary experience most of them would qualify as middle aged men in cheap suits. Many of them had never learned to tie a Windsor knot on their tie, so always looked a bit lopsided, and some when on the road had crumpled shirts, like bachelors. I am sure some of them only had one pair of shoes, and scuffed at that.

Is it better for a middle aged man to wear jeans and a T shirt than a cheap suit. The problem is that jeans come in all grades from $20 up to $500 and it is not hard to tell the difference. Is a middle aged man in cheap jeans, in the same category.

Do you prefer a show pony, to a genuine draft horse. I think that is probably so, and if a bloke has a cheap suit the chances are he has no woman trying to make him look like he is worth cheating with. Not that he is necessarily a cheater, but in a cheap suit he is probably not going to get a chance.

Is this a symptom of the superficiality that is infesting our society. What about women who do not go to much trouble to dress when they go out. I see young schoolgirls with laddered stockings, who are not taking the trouble to replace them, or may be cannot afford to, and what are they going to look like at forty.

A bloke has only to try some dating agencies, to realize there are a lot of very ordinary middle aged ladies just as lonely as blokes in cheap suits. Its no wonder the poker machines are popular with a forty something individual of either sex.

Hey Peter, I was moaning just yesterday to Col about how the public seem to view me, shop assistants that direct me to the bargains and look me up and down and decide I’m usually not worth the effort of their attendance.

I guess I am the equivalent of the female in a cheap suit. No one’s thrown up on me yet, thank goodness (correction: no adult has thrown up on me yet).

Now and again someone will ask if I am some kind of playcentre out for a walk. If I mention fostering I get the “oh I would have done that but it would be too heartbreaking” then they look me up and down like I must be inhuman and doing it for money.

As for men in suits, well they are working and they are probably tired. I don’t think I ever had an opinion about them but I had a friend once similar in attitude to Houel. That movie “seven” ewww… yucky. That was the psycho that said it?

Houellebecq, I know where you're coming from. I have little respect for the people who have so little respect for themselves that they allow themselves to be cogs in someone else's machine. Bureaucrats and functionaries with any desire to "make a difference" beaten out of them by life's vicissitudes.

It's sad, but the way our workplaces are being remade, those grey people are the perfect employees - perfectly able to fit into a world in which no human decisions are ever made and one's only role is to feed the machines with data for purposes unknown.

Little wonder that some of those grey people are here; those who have nothing to contribute and whose sole pleasures seem to come from trying to sneer at those who do. Second- and third-raters desperate to show off to an audience of their betters, yet managing no more than the leg-humping, arse-licking cavorting of a Pomeranian that has somehow escaped spaying.

Think "comic book guy" from the Simpsons dressed in his Star Trek uniform for a perfect image of Pericles, for example.

Otokonoko:"how do these ambitious, wealthy, successful people turn into cheap suit wearing, ugly shoe buying angry middle-aged men?"

Read "Death of a Salesman" or watch any Jackie Gleason, especially "The Honeymooners". Have a look at "Brazil" by Terry Gilliam or "The Man Who Wasn't There" by the Coen Brothers

The sad faceless fellows in cheap suits are no different to there wives, usually equipped with extraordinarily large bums and breasts all a wobbling around in Kmart or possibly Target (for the more up-market) utility wear with either a screaming toddler or offensive 9 year old picking its nose and glaring at everyone.

I never bought into the security-for-life-while-we-suck-the-life-blood-out-of-you style career path.

I prefer the helter-skelter (Charles Manson excluded) style of life.

Peter the Believer “Do you prefer a show pony.”

As far as females are concerned, give me the show pony every time… Ultimately it is cheaper to buy the services of an ironing lady, cleaner and laundress. A lady on ones arm who turns heads is priceless.

As for the ties, half Windsor or full Windsor… try tying a bow tie from scratch… it is a hell of a task but worth the effect at dinner and even after… when oneself or some new conquest unties the bow and it drapes, casually, around the neck in its own “lop-sided” style… actually me and the bling-bling show pony have a ball at the Hilton coming up.. she will be done up to the nines in her diamonds (no Austrian crystals or cubic zirconia) and my black tie will not be on elastic.

And “Is this a symptom of the superficiality that is infesting our society.”

To superficial.. we are all free to be as “superficial” as we want (some of us use superficiality as a shield to protect the delicate sincerity we really feel inside) … so long as it makes us happy…

That’s the problem with freedom of choice,

other peoples choices might not gel with ones own but that small disappointment sure beats the disappointments which come with the alternative.

To dating agencies... try RSVP... it is online and alot cheaper than the those supposed places (where they "match-you" but when it is to some bland opposite ... maybe the guy in the cheap suit should question his "presentation"). But also remember, with all dating.... you have to dig through some dirt to find the diamond..

Wonderful stuff Houelly. I feel so much better after reading that.

I can go off to work happy now, dressed in shorts and singlet. Might get changed into somewhat more respectable clothes some time during the morning.

Then I’ll go for a barefoot run, then shopping barefoot with sweaty singlet.

Haven’t worn a tie since the day I was married 21 years ago. Been single now for 20 years!!

Yep, middle-aged morons in suits, be they good cuts or cheapies, don’t get no sympathy from this non-conformist.

People look at me with disdain for daring to go around everywhere barefoot (I get many more sideways looks for this than for wearing a singlet and shorts). I look at suit-clad drongoes with disdain, not to mention those who smoke with impunity in public and those that carry pot bellies that immediately tell the world that they can’t look after themselves.

Tailor-made battledress for the continuing class war

October 3 2006
Bill Bottomley

IF WE were to go back to the drawing board and address the question, "What are good ways to clothe the human body?", I doubt that anyone would come up with the suit as a solution.

Of all the ways to cover our nakedness, the suit would have to be one of the least satisfactory.

The suit is a testament to the persistence of unexamined assumptions and institutionalised habits. Its most obvious shortcomings are its uncomfortableness and its price, plus the fact that it is nearly always worn with a collar and tie, the other really dumb sartorial habit that seems to have survived in the face of common sense.

And think of all the unnecessary stuff that a suit brings with it, such as the padded shoulders, the little buttons on the bottom of the sleeves, coat pockets that don't get used and lapels (not to mention double-breastedness, when it's in fashion). And a suit is so complex it has to be made by an expert.

But the really significant thing about the suit is that it is the uniform of those who run the show. Suits are symbolic of power and money. A Zegna suit is the same sort of status symbol to a power merchant as Nike sneakers are to gangsta rappers.

Pollies love suits so much that they even wear them on the beach. The corporate world loves suits, too; and it doesn't matter what nationality you are, if you want to fit in with your international brethren, you'd better wear a suit.

Suits are today's uniform of the oppressors in the class war that has been going on for centuries but which has become particularly savage since the economic rationalists got their greedy grasp on the helm of most countries.

If you were to draw up an organisational chart of the army of exploiters who wear suits, it would match pretty closely a similar chart of the army that wears camouflage: petty bureaucrats and privates at the bottom, and corporate executives and senior brass at the top.

The social rules governing suit-wearing have relaxed considerably since I was a kid. I haven't owned a suit for more than 40 years, but it hasn't stopped me going to weddings, funerals or other formal occasions. Yet people still wear them, despite the lack of comfort and the symbolic significance of the suit in the continuing class war.

I suspect this is because most people don't realise how comprehensively they are being shafted by the dedicated suit-wearers, despite the evidence in the headlines every day. When you wear a suit you are publicly declaring whose side you are on - and it ain't the side of the workers.
You wear a suit
You are the enemy!

Mikk “IF WE were to go back to the drawing board and address the question, "What are good ways to clothe the human body?", I doubt that anyone would come up with the suit as a solution.”

But they did.

That is what is called, in contemporary parlance, “An Inconvenient Truth”

Regardless of the cringing and sniveling piffle of some leftie nong with no fashion sense

“Suits are today's uniform of the oppressors in the class war that has been going on for centuries but which has become particularly savage since the economic rationalists got their greedy grasp on the helm of most countries.”

Yawn… what a load of bollocks…

If you read anything about fashion history you would find suits evolved through peoples personal choices and were not imposed by a self-appointed committee of commie flunkies and wannabe despots.

If you had any idea about what drives fashion (personal taste) you would even find the true origin of the superfluous buttons on a jacket cuff.

I wonder what is “fashionable” on the barricades these days, a matching denim twin set … or maybe some camouflage pants and a slinky top in green silk to offset the drabness of the trousers?

I wear suits, single and double breasted. I also wear casual and evening jackets any variety of shirts. My tie collection is legendary. I am most probably least favoured with shoes, of which I tend to have only very few.

However, I have always hankered for the old days of frock coats in all those glorious colours, popular during the English Regency era.

“When you wear a suit you are publicly declaring whose side you are on - and it ain't the side of the workers.
You wear a suit
You are the enemy!”

Then, I would will be with the enemy, at least they have some fashion sense….. (and carry bigger guns).

Some interesting reactions.

Apart from being a bit creeped out that Pericles imagines what I look like and how I live and the predictable cheap shots, not a bad start I suppose.

I find it interesting the way people are scared to talk about the ugliness of life, or the ugliness inside themselves. I'm sure Pericles is a shining light of happiness and virtue, who thinks it's 'weird' to discuss this kind of loathing. But wait, it seems he's even expanded my ungenerous appraisal of people I don't know and applied it to me, someone he doesn't know. Maybe that horse isn't so high.

Otokonoko,

'fascinatingly ugly shoes.' , 'what had happened in his life to make him think that purchasing such disgusting footwear was desirable or even acceptable'

Too funny. At least you're getting into the spirit of it!

'There was a feel of ambition, of wealth, of success'
'how do these ambitious, wealthy, successful people turn into cheap suit wearing, ugly shoe buying angry middle-aged men? '

That's what I'm talking about. Young guys wear a suit and it seems like they are heading somewhere and they 'believe'. But middle aged men in cheap suits seem like they are going through the motions waiting to die.

Peter,

'Is a middle aged man in cheap jeans, in the same category. '
Good point. I must spend more on my Jeans!

I don't think this is all necessarily about looks/appearance. What do you think of the symbolism of the suit and tie, of conformity, aging, fear of aging, examining your prejudices etc.

TPP,

'then they look me up and down like I must be inhuman and doing it for money.'
Seriously? That's awful! Are you sure they are thinking that, or do you just fear people will think that?

Anti,

Maybe that's my problem, I envy how they can thrive and enjoy 'the system'. But normally they don't look happy to me. They function, but they do it like a reflex I feel.

'Little wonder that some of those grey people are here; those who have nothing to contribute and whose sole pleasures seem to come from trying to sneer at those who do.'
That's me too a tee! I love sneering at the 'save the world' OLO populace! It's not save the world I sneer at really, just the thought that you can do it by posting your 'fabulous' opinions on OLO. I think it's the pretension that gets me down.

Col,

'The sad faceless fellows in cheap suits are no different to their[sic] wives'
Haha. I used sic. I hate people who use sic, but I did it just for you Col. You know I love you though so you wont mind.

'Ultimately it is cheaper to buy the services of an ironing lady, cleaner and laundress. A lady on ones arm who turns heads is priceless. '

Oh Col, come on. The reflected glory of a having a floozy? I thought you had more depth! Do you drive an MG with a Burberry hat?

'my black tie will not be on elastic. '
Haha. I love elastic ties. They're just so wrong on so many levels. if one must wear a tie, don't wear a cartoon one or a clip on man. Have some self respect!

'some of us use superficiality as a shield to protect the delicate sincerity we really feel inside'
You're in form today! I nearly wet myself now.

Mikk,

'Suits are today's uniform of the oppressors in the class war that has been going on for centuries but which has become particularly savage since the economic rationalists got their greedy grasp on the helm of most countries.'
Go you! You'd get on with SJF I reckon.

'When you wear a suit you are publicly declaring whose side you are on'
Bravo! Great stuff!

What does the poor bugger have to do?

That suite, his wife bought it, with him looking on, sadly. He hates it.

He did want just one decent suite, but the dress his youngest daughter had to have, for the school formal cost $1300. Only $200 left for his suit. And that tie, fathers day.

He used to be a top water skier before he met her. The boat paid the deposite on the first house. Always planed to buy another, when they got on their feet. Almost did, but she wanted a bigger house.

Had a nice sports car, in his youth. Saved for years to buy an old one, & do it up. Do you like the new carpet, & lounge?

It's a pity about that big promotion he was offered, 12 years back. They would be quite well off now, might even have that sky boat, if he'd taken it. But then, she didn't want to move 200Km away from mum, & the kids didn't want to leave their friends at school.

Funny isn't it, now that her mums gone, & the kids have left school, she wants to move to the big smoke.

Cut the poor bloke some slack girls, it's you, & his sense of responsibility that's made him what he now is. He has given everything he had to give her what she wanted, nice house, kids, security, but what does she want now? You guessed it, a water skier, with a soprts car. He had no chance.

I recken the silly old bugger should have run off to the hippy commune, whith his secretary, 15 years ago, when he was still exciting, & she wanted him.

You lot should try out for "Grumpy Old Men", although if too many of you got in I think it should be renamed to "Grumpy Old Farts". There is a lighter side to all this:

-

Two elderly friends, Bill and Sam, met in the park every day to feed the pigeons, watch the squirrels and discuss world problems.

One day Bill didn't show up. Sam didn't think much about it figured maybe he had a cold or some such. But after Bill hadn't shown up for a week or so Sam really got worried.

However, since the only time they ever got together was at the park, Sam didn't know where Bill lived so he was unable to find out what had happened to him.

A month had past and Sam figured he had seen the last of Bill, but one day Sam approached the park and lo and behold there sat Bill! Sam was very excited and happy to see him and told him so! Then he said, "For crying out loud Bill, what in the world happened to you?"

Bill replied, "I have been in jail."

"Jail?," cried Sam!! "What in the world for?"

"Well," Bill said, "you know Sue, that cute little blond waitress at the coffee shop where we sometimes get coffee?"

"Yeah" said Sam, I remember her. What about her?"

"Well one day she charged me with rape and I was so proud that when I got into court, I pled "guilty" and the judge gave me 30 days for perjury."

-

Obviously the joke is a little dated. Old men don't discuss the worlds problems in a park any more, nowadays they do it on OLO.

(Monsieur) Houellebecq, c'est la vie!
Actually, your piece is somewhat reminiscent of the below:

I look at all the lonely people.
I look at all the lonely people.

Elena Rigby
Picks up the rice in the church where her wedding has been;
Lives in a dream.
Waits at the window,
Wearing a face that she keeps in a jar by the door.
Who is it for?
All the lonely people, where do they all come from?
All the lonely people, where do they all belong?

Father MacKenzie
Writing the words of a sermon that no one will hear;
No one comes near.
Look at him working,
Nodding his socks in the night when there's nobody there.
What does he care?
All the lonely people, where do they all come from?
All the lonely people, where do they all belong?

I look at all the lonely people.
I look at all the lonely people.

Elena Rigby
Died in the church and was buried alone with her name.
Nobody came.
Father MacKenzie
Wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from her grave.
No one was saved.
All the lonely people, where do they all come from?
All the lonely people, where do they all belong?

(no citation needed!)

Jeweley wrote, " no one's thrown up on me yet, thank goodness".

Master replies: Hey Jeweles, you obviously don't spend your time with Thugby League players - - - - - - - - - - - thank goodness! We've got a few of 'em out here in the Silver City who sometimes seem to specialise in that activity.

Houllie

Thanks for this thread, apart from total entertainment value, if, in future anyone claims that women are more bitchy and pretentious than men I will direct them to this tirade of grouches.

Priceless.

Hasbeen,

That's a classic! So well written too. It is a familiar story I fear, but to anyone in a similar situation.. Grow some balls man!

It is a good illustration of the power women have held over more than a few men's lives, I think anti would call it the 'covert' power of women. I have a mate who calls it the power of the pussy. Caught in the 'Bermuda Triangle' was another phrase that comes to mind. But I'd like to hear Fractelle or SJF retort with a corresponding female sob story to compete with that.

rstuart,

Did you make that joke up yourself?

Horus,

A more contemporary version...

Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a farcking big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed- interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of farcking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing sprit- crushing game shows, stuffing farcking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing you last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, farcked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that?

I chose not to choose life: I chose something else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who need reasons when you've got heroin

Col,

I'm still laughing at 'some of us use superficiality as a shield to protect the delicate sincerity we really feel inside'. That's funny on so many levels. Is it autobiographical?

Houllie

Your little rant just reminded me, you do not qualify as a psychopath.

:(

You have a sense of humour.

The title of OLO's Psychopath was long ago bestowed upon Col Rouge who lacks the warm blood required for mirth.

As for my theory on suits:

Depends on the man:

Middle aged men like George Clooney or Daniel Craig look hot in a suit (or out of one for that matter).

Whereas no amount of Armani can save the likes of George W and John Howard who both look like S.O.M.M.'s (sad old middle-aged men). Or any male newsreaders or even male porn stars.

There, Houllie, I have succumbed to the charm of your thread and added my own little tirade.

Houellebecq “Haha. I used sic.”

At least, unlike in the first post on this thread, you did not ‘sic’ up all over me and laugh :-)

“Oh Col, come on. The reflected glory of a having a floozy? I thought you had more depth! Do you drive an MG with a Burberry hat?”

That “floosy” is my future wife.. (if you ask her she will simply tell you she is vain) and we don’t wear hats.. no MGs either but she does drive a Mercedes SLK235 roadster.

Re 'some of us use superficiality as a shield to protect the delicate sincerity we really feel inside'.“

Re “You're in form today! I nearly wet myself now.”

I thought you might like that line LOL :- ))

Re “That's funny on so many levels. Is it autobiographical?”

Possibly for my feminine side… to the more dominant rest of me, no just consider it as me venting my well honed sense of irony.

Fractelle “The title of OLO's Psychopath was long ago bestowed upon Col Rouge who lacks the warm blood required for mirth.”

Houellebecq, obviously your source of mirth is completely misplaced...

if comrade fractelle speaks, it must be a plot, designed to ensnare the workers of the world into a web of uncontrollable laughter....


A Marxist curse upon those wicked humourists of the Right!

That’s the problem with all the dull and boring lefties, who buy badly made suits,

they are so used to wearing uniform drab and living a dull and pointless existence, that the lighter side of life, the bit which makes it worth living, is completely wasted on them.

As to psychopathy, I would suspect fractelle would immediately recognize Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot and most of the other

“hero’s of the socialist left”

as cold blooded murderers who oversaw mass killing on a scale which Charles Manson, Richard Ramirez, Theodore Bundy and David Berkowitz stand in awe of.

Just more leftie Humbug

Master replies: Hey Jeweles, you obviously don't spend your time with Thugby League players - - - - - - - - - - - thank goodness! We've got a few of 'em out here in the Silver City who sometimes seem to specialise in that activity.

No, no I haven’t. Weirdly enough I probably have been thrown up on more than most people and now get quite scared changing baby boys too. Actually I’m gonna stop thinking about it because my life is really quite disgusting, no wonder I obsessively clean things all the time.

Anyone seen the movie “The Pursuit of Happiness” or read the book? I thought Houel would point out the cheap suite wearers should be grateful to even have a cheap suite.

Oh and you’re right Houel – “inhuman” might have been a bit harsh, they more have a look of “you must be heartless”.

Now are they thinking that or am I projecting? Might be me but it always always comes with words like “oh I couldn’t do that I would get too upset when they leave” Pfft wimps (nice clothes though).

Hey Fractelle I just asked my kid collection and they don’t know what a caveman or an astronaut is. It’s all batman, spiderman, super girl (dunno if that one is real or just made up by the budding feminists amongst them), bumblebee and optimus prime(transformer).

May have crossed threads there.

You said it, "Being the resident OLO psychopath," and not so well written if by reading I want to throw up because it is so much dribble!

Suppose you would think my suit cheap, and being a heterosexual woman I am not likely to dribble over your bumpy bits like a bored middle age man might.

Now I (mostly) acknowledge my mistakes and I do owe an apology to Col for calling you a psychopath. As any competent psychiatrist would point out your lack of compassion combined with your grandiosity, indicates narcissism.

"An absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity) are often symptomatic of malignant narcissism. Pollock wrote: "The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty and sadism."...

Kernberg wrote that malignant narcissism can be differentiated from psychopathy because of the malignant narcissists' capacity to internalize "both aggressive and idealized superego precursors, leading to the idealization of the aggressive, sadistic features of the pathological grandiose self of these patients." ...

Malignant narcissists, in contrast to psychopaths, are also said to be capable of developing "some identification with other powerful idealized figures as part of a cohesive 'gang' ... "

Your post, supposedly about the unfortunate state of middle-aged men in cheap suits, was simply a self-serving piece of dribble (thanks Ma Edda), your only omission was your adoration of Maggie Thatcher. Regular readers of OLO would be familiar with your idealisation of this former political leader.

I guess the title for Resident OLO Psychopath is still up for grabs. Houellie, I know you hanker for this dubious distinction but you're just not nasty enough. Suggest you read the following checklist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath#Hare.27s_Psychopathy_Checklist-Revised_.28PCL-R.29

Piper

Yeah, wrong thread. All I can say is it is about time that the kids learned that cavemen and astronauts are real as opposed to the comic book characters - not that there is anything wrong with comics...

I do believe that 'super-girl' was not a feminist construct (although I admire your extrapolation on this) but simply a means to propagate further super-heroes. But I might be wrong, super-girl could indeed be an evil evil construct by obese lesbians intent on domination of comics.

For any reader who may feel they are missing out, I posited the question:

Who would win a fight?

Cavemen or astronauts?

The only condition being that the combatants use materials found in the natural environment eg, rocks.

I favour cavemen as they have to fight every day just to eke out a living, whereas astronauts who do have greater knowledge of the environment (ingredients for gunpowder) would be massacred before they even found some flint.

The caveman and astronauts may be middle-aged, or not. Whether they look fetching in their animal skins or spacesuits is a matter of individual taste.

Fractelle “As any competent psychiatrist would point out your lack of compassion combined with your grandiosity, indicates narcissism.”

Ah but of course, you are not a competent psychiatrist… and talking to trees, don’t count as “psychiatry” either, even if within your realm of narcissist grandiosity you are full competent it would be only in “your realm” that such a delusion exists.

Mind you, many doctors, psychiatrists included, as well as psychologists have monstrous ego and narcistic tendencies…. It is what allows them to feel entitled judge and label the rest of us.

As for compassion.. you just don’t have a clue, simply because I do not pander for popularity by piling on the faux sincerity of left wing half-wits, does not reflect any level of compassion or any other worthwhile standard. I simply recognize that people build the lives they get and the indolent and incompetent, the source of most left wing support, who plan to build nothing get exactly that.. nothing and even less from the scum-bag left wing politicians they elect to care for them..

So no compassion for you fractelle, regardless of your past breakdowns. That you have failed to deal with what life has challenged you with is no excuse because it is the same for all of us and it is called “the path to personal growth” – try it sometime, instead of trying to exercise your (misplaced) sense of self importance by criticizing whatever I write.

My life is complete, rich and beautiful. I neither seek nor expect nor care about your views. Your very existence is a matter of complete indifference and merely a source of small chuckles.

And now you will probably complain to the authorities .. demonstrating that whilst you feel fully entitled to hand it out, your capacity to deal with what is handed back is severely and hypocritically limited.

Hooleybeck

‘I'd love to feel more pity, but somehow the image of the suit and tie, the middle aged spread, the balding comb-over and glasses just fills me with loathing.’

It could be a lot worse … just imagine if you were married to him.

rstuart

‘Obviously the joke is a little dated. Old men don't discuss the worlds problems in a park any more, nowadays they do it on OLO.’

WHAT?! … THAT’S the reason you deem it 'outdated'?!

Try ‘outdated’ because we have hopefully moved on as a culture from finding rape jokes funny.

Perhaps we loathe that which we fear.

I don't undersand the comb over - it always looks worse and there are many men who look good with a bald head.

Pelican

You are so right about the comb-over. I am a big fan of Bill Murray and one of the most hilarious send-ups of the comb-over was his performance in 'King-Pin' with his lacquered comb-over flapping in the breeze. However, that was comedy - what is Donald Trump's excuse?

Agree that bald can be beautiful.

It occurs to me that the whole topic is a symptom of making judgements about people based on stereotypes and knowing almost nothing of the rest of their lives. Some people do have jobs that don't enrich them but which meet a need and their passions lie elsewhere. A cheap suit on a middle aged man might not look good, it might tell you something about their taste in appearances but it tells you nothing about the other parts of their lives.

They could have a really rich life in other areas which many of the wearers of expensive suits might totally miss out on. I know that I can get great joy from things that others just don't get and others seem to prize things that I don't relate to at all.

The funny thing is that people if given the opportunity have a habit of being very surprising with what enriches their lives.

R0bert

R0bert

I agree completely. Cheap clothing in no way is the measure of a man. It is the character, decency and empathy of the person, him or herself, that matters. Which is why I mentioned Donald Trump - all the money in the world, trophy wives and no class whatsoever. The same applies to to the likes of Paris Hilton, all the advantages and contributes nothing.

Therefore, a cliche:

You can't judge a book by its cover.

Fractelle and R0bert

Your comments about not judging a book by its cover remind me about when I was working in a pub in London in the late 80s. There was this old-ish man who used to come into the pub night after night and just stand at the end of the bar with his one and only drink and never spoke to anyone. He wore a tattered old suit, but was reasonably groomed.

Just the sight of him used to make a lump come up in my throat. One night it became so unbearable that I just ran out the back of the pub and bawled my eyes out. My husband suggested that I try drawing him into conversation, so I did.

I’d like to be able to say that he turned out to be a fascinating old man who’d had a wonderful life … but he wasn’t. He was unbearably boring. However, by talking to him, I realised that he was neither unhappy nor lonely. He was just someone who kept to himself and didn’t give a damn about whether he was interesting or not.

I didn’t realise it at the time but he actually taught me a lot.

Dear Houellebecq,

This thread is quite a surprise from you.
Most men tend not to speak about their feelings.
I suppose because they fear they're going
to be humiliated or belittled.
They don't want to be fired, or left out or
have promotion bypass them. They have status problems
and worry about their position in society, in the
family, at work. That's why I'm quite moved that
you opened up in this way.

Now, I've got to confess that -
I actually love a man in a suit.
A suit usually adds style to any man - (even one
with a comb-over - although, bald is sexy -
remember Yul?).

A suit gives a man something he may not have had before -
a certain 'bearing.' The same can't be said for - say a
kilt.
I remember seeing one guy with a fat belly
wearing a distressing kilt that was very short,
like a mini-kilt.
It happened at work - we had a "National Costume," day.
I'm sure he thought he looked like a million bucks - but
he'd have been better off in a suit.

They say that, "Clothes don't make the man."
But that's true only up to a certain point.
We do judge people by appearances - whether we
care to admit it or not.

You see middle-aged men in suits as some kind
of failure.

I don't.

R0bert:” The funny thing is that people if given the opportunity have a habit of being very surprising with what enriches their lives.”

Tell us then. “Moments of joy are felt when […fill this space…]”.

I think there should maybe be a stipulation that you have to be wearing a cheap suit while experiencing it and all females are in jeans and sloppy joes.

And no, “shopping for new clothes” is not allowed.

Me first; those looks of wonder in the morning when the tooth fairy did come and all those moments of magic reflected in young children’s eyes.

Foxy

I defy you to deny that Sean Connery in a kilt is not a turn-on. Smile.

As for your comment re: Houllie "opening up" .... sometimes you really lay it on a bit thick. Imagine the flack if someone like, oh, me had started a thread critical of cheap suits on (fat) middle-aged men? I don't think Houllie's intent was to be all 'new-age and sensitive'.

But Houllie, you can prove me wrong, show the OLO reader your compassionate sensitive side, please.

Piper

I thought the female equivalent of a 'cheap suit' were 'trakky-daks and t-shirt' and the beer-gut equivalent; muffin tops.

Really, it is not the cost of the threads, but anyone who keeps themselves fit looks good in anything.

Dear Fractelle,

It's a question of those that need 'enhancement,'
and those that don't.

Sean Connery - with or without a kilt
would be acceptable anywhere - however - I
wasn't referring to men of his ilk. Men like
Sean don't need any 'enhancement.' I was
referring to men that a suit would enhance.
And had you seen this
guy that I referred to in my previous post -
you too would have gone for the suit rather than
the kilt option in his case. Maybe if the kilt
would have been a bit longer....

As for Houellebecq -
we tease each other all the time. I think he gets
what I'm trying to say.

Man you lot do move slowly while people who have lives (ie me) are out having fun on the weekend..

Robert and pelican have made some progress into looking a little deeper into the topic. The 'believer' I note was still stuck on the level of appearances, strange for a bible basher...

Fractelle and Col are disappointing me, the repartee is a bit lacking. It was looking promising on Friday but now it's hand bags at ten paces.

'being a heterosexual woman I am not likely to dribble over your bumpy bits like a bored middle age man might.'
WTF? I think you might have got your browser windows mixed up, with RedHotPie on the other one I'm guessing.

robert,

'It occurs to me that the whole topic is a symptom of making judgements about people based on stereotypes and knowing almost nothing of the rest of their lives.'
Thank you! Not a symptom though, an invitation to discussion perhaps. It really is enjoyable though. My partner can get cut off in traffic by a 4WD and she can give an in depth analysis of the driver and all his shortcomings.

pelican,

'Perhaps we loathe that which we fear.'
Indeed.

'I don't undersand[sic] the comb over'
And I don't understand shaving ones eyebrows off and drawing them an inch above the original eyebrow in a comic V shape.

Foxy,

'Most men tend not to speak about their feelings'
How sexist.

'I actually love a man in a suit.'
I suspect you love a toned George Clooney, not Dt. Sipowicz in a brown suit from Target with short sleeve shirt and clip on tie. Big difference.

'I don't think Houllie's intent was to be all 'new-age and sensitive'.
prove me wrong, show the OLO reader your compassionate sensitive side, please.'

Men are, and always were sensitive, and New Age is for those Flake Tarot readers who love 'sparkles'.
I have no desire to prove anything to you. Also it seems you have forgotten it is you who labelled me a psychopath. Bit much to change your tune now.

Houellebecq “Fractelle and Col are disappointing me,”

I will try to do better in future but “fractelle” is not much to work with.

Now where did I leave my axe?

To comb-overs.. a long term friend of mine had one which looked sadder as it got thinner, over the years. I felt so much better for him when he surrendered all for a charity head shave, losing that wispy piece of glued down floss.

Fortunattely I am not hirsutely challenged in that regard, being more concerned when younger that my hairline woud grow forward and join my eye brows.

And The Pied Piper “those looks of wonder in the morning when the “tooth fairy” did come”

Brings us back to before, with another psychopath from the prequel of the Hannibal Lecter books, Red Dragon.. spookie…..

Robert” The funny thing is that people if given the opportunity have a habit of being very surprising with what enriches their lives.”

So true, I find good friends and particularly a good life partner are the ultimate in wealth and personal enrichment.

Houellebecq “Men are, and always were sensitive, and New Age is for those Flake Tarot readers who love 'sparkles'.”

Of course we are and yes, whilst the new age fruitloops are out with the pixies, most of us real men are proud of our masculinity and our sensitivity (the terms not being mutually exclusive)

As for you being a “psychopath”. Speaking personally, I made no such suggestion.

Indeed, I merely responded to comments made of me from the delusionally flawed judgment of fractelle.

Dear Houellebecq,

I do love a man in a suit. As the song goes,
"Can't help it..." And you're wrong about
my only being attracted to the "George Clooney,"
types. My taste in men goes deeper than mere
appearances. As for the type of suit - the men
wear - that's up to them. I don't go around looking
at labels of people's clothing. Some people can get
away with wearing a suit from Target - perhaps
you're one?

When I stated in my previous post that men tend not
to speak about their feelings - I didn't think it
was necessary for me to explain my meaning to you -
but I guess I should have clarified the fact that men have
other problems to be getting on with - some of which
you've raised in this thread yourself.

Men are a deeply misunderstood species - and the
situation doesn't seem to be getting any better - because
you've got enemies within . Some men are really
frightened to be seen to be less than hairy-chested.

Take care.

Fractelle:“I thought the female equivalent of a 'cheap suit' were 'trakky-daks and t-shirt' and the beer-gut equivalent; muffin tops."

Haha… yeah must say I see a lot of that where I am. Muffin tops of varying sizes are everywhere – hipster jeans aye. Actually took me ages to get used to low waisted jeans but they appear to be climbing again. And mine fit, teenage flesh at overflow is one thing but not after a certain age.[grin]

One Aussie "clothing trend" I do enjoy where I am is the tendancy for people to have pjama days.

“Really, it is not the cost of the threads, but anyone who keeps themselves fit looks good in anything.”

Many teenage girls hanging about the house remind of it daily. But I think this thread had pointed out a few times that the cover is still important to many. I guess a multimillion dollar clothing industry has seen to that.

Col:“Brings us back to before, with another psychopath from the prequel of the Hannibal Lecter books, Red Dragon.. spookie…..”

Col I just read that over and over and twice out loud and am none the wiser, but I did read Red Dragon - if that was the one with the wild pigs? Thinking about books... they describe clothing as part of the character.

Whenever I go into town (Broken Hill) I notice the large numbers of middle aged and elderly folk. This used to not be the case. When the joint was booming decades ago it was a young man's town.

Anyway, I notice a difference between the older people here, and the older people on the streets in Sydney and Adelaide (the 2 cities I visit most). The older folks here in The Hill just seem more content, they smile a lot and are a lot less rushed. They're happy to look daggy (a word my daughter loves) in their check shirts, old jeans and dirty shoes (from the gardening and dusty lawns/yards). And yes, they wear cheap suits too. The Sallies and St Vinnies on Argent Street have lots of old suits on sale sometimes.

I was in Gribbles pathology recently for my monthly INR test (I'm on Warfarin, or "rat poison" as they call it). There were about 6 or us there in the waiting room, mostly strangers to each other and mostly getting on a bit. We had a GREAT OLD TIME, just about tore that joint apart with laughter. Now THAT sort of thing just doesn't happen in the big smoke - - - - the oldies and middle aged look dour and unhappy to me, and the youngin's often look driven and aggressive. I'm glad I'm here, and not there!

Houellebecq, True I did not understand you piece one bit. I had not seen the Movie you referred to but I take by the you writings that you are not yet ‘middle aged’ although 35-40 is just that. What I said was met to irritate & get some reaction. Best of luck with boobies heading south as you age not so gracefully. Women can look as offensive to the eye as any poor downtrodden male.

Master’s piece has cheered me up and I can picture Broken Hill as just that a friendly Country Town. Motel Owners in a nearby town returned there to retire and I can visualize their smile not having to work & forcible smile at irritable customers at all hours.

Col Rouge, I think I'm with you.

A suit should be, and in best practice is solely for having a good time.

A good (which might not be expensive) as opposed to crap (which might not be cheap) suit is not a misery.

Unfortunately too many try-hards wear good ones poorly while attending jobs they hate. Too many more (as the thread started) wear cheap imitations at jobs at which they don't get well-enough paid to justify a suit at all. They wear a uniform of servitude, not opression, perhaps giving others a hard time and certainly giving suits a bad name.

My own have seen two oscillations of 15 kilos and not been uncomfortable at any stage. They *have* hidden the tummy. My lady is well-influenced by good dressing. For any gentleman given such a good start, by the time the suit is off the lady doesn't care about the tummy anymore.

My own suggestions for absolutely anybody are go for wool, or at least wool blend, double-breasted, and black. If that doesn't suit work, then work doesn't *really* deserve a suit.

Further to Col: Skip the laundress, that's what machines are for, and skip the ironing lady too. The suit only needs steam, martinising as required, and the odd quick reinforcement with the iron which you shouldn't trust anybody else to do. Good pure cotton shirts won't stay ironed worth a damn anyway and what fool wants starch? What good a silk tie or scarf if the collar is stiff? Further: Who needs a cleaner? One's private quarters stay clean by not being piggish - thats what the workshop is for (large, better stereo, proper tools, a project on the go, better liquor, north light and *insulated*). Surely one only needs women for the particular best things that require them, and the otherwise necessary or routine which they render a social occasion?

You need room to be constructive (destructive?) and creative on your own, so does she, so do the kids. Failure to find the space to do so results in poisonous co-dependence and encourages the shrew.

Rusty.

Yep, I think we're getting to the meat of this thread, at long last.

>>Surely one only needs women for the particular best things that require them, and the otherwise necessary or routine which they render a social occasion?<<

Me Rusty Catheter

You Jane.

Pied Piper “am none the wiser, but I did read Red Dragon - if that was the one with the wild pigs?”

No the one with the pigs is just called “Hannibal” (the movie was a travesty and imho wavered too far from the original book, which I have also read). Red Dragon was not about Hannibal but about one of his patients. It was the first Thomas Harris novel. There have been a couple of movies made of it.. a real cheap one back in the 1980s but named “Man Hunter” and another in 2002

Re http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dragon_(novel)

It is in this book, Red Dragon that one of the characters is a psychopath called “the Tooth Fairy”.

Rusty Catheter (Ouch).. I got to ask .. how and why that logon?…

Yes, I believe in having a good time in everything I do.. including work.. so wearing a suit be it for work (which I tend to wear one less for these days) or fun should always be for a good time.

My lady is likewise (as yours) influenced by good dressing.. she weighs in at 43 kg and is as fit as anything (the side effects of being a dancer and dance teacher, among other things) but she likes to “dress to impress” (she is very vain.. I know because she told me so) and does so with alacrity.

“Surely one only needs women for the particular best things that require them, and the otherwise necessary or routine which they render a social occasion?.... Failure to find the space to do so results in poisonous co-dependence and encourages the shrew.”

Each to their own… I despise co-dependency but like the interaction which comes for sharing. The co-dependency is more when we "need" someone else.. and she and I do not "need" anyone but we simply "want" each other for and beyond “the particular best things that require them” LOL

Hey RC, you will get flack from the ultra-feminists around here but don’t worry…. I like you… which is especially important when I am, supposedly, the neighbourhood psychopath LOL

Houllie:

“Fractelle and Col are disappointing me..”

Well, boo hoo.

And this little porkie:

“ Also it seems you have forgotten it is you who labelled me a psychopath”

HUH?

Reminder on your opening post:

“Being the resident OLO psychopath I can relate....

… but I'm still always left wondering if I'm the only psychopath that finds this so distasteful. The waste of a soul. I'd love to feel more pity, but somehow the image of the suit and tie, the middle aged spread, the balding comb-over and glasses just fills me with loathing....”

And if I did apply such a label to you (which I honestly don't recall) I would've had a very good reason.

BTW, I have never stated that men are not sensitive or caring, just a few individuals who don't GAF (just as there are women who have all the empathy of a Maggie Thatcher).

Which brings me to Col, I did amend my description to narcissist, please pay attention.

However, when you post comments like:

“ I am indifferent to many. I do not like to see suffering but for most everyday folk, regardless of their values and beliefs, I am simply indifferent because whatever they do makes no different to me or what I do.”

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2965&page=0#68161

Nothing further is needed on my part - if the cap fits, so they say...

Foxy

:-)

If you are just “teasing” could you please make it a little more obvious to the entire OLO readership? Some people might think that you are desperate to be liked by everyone – not a problem that afflicts yours truly, heh heh.

Now have I missed out offending anyone? If so, don't fret I'll catch up with you on some other thread.

Cheers

Dear Fractelle,

Now, now... the post was directed at Houellebecq -
and I responded along the lines of Pericles -
(I thought), with my tongue firmly in my cheek.
I would have assumed that it was fairly obvious -
because of the fact that I did lay it on 'a bit
thick.' But dear girl, you were right in summing
up Houellebecq - I over-estimated him. I thought
he was outspoken, zany, (but warm-hearted underneath
all that facade). I wasted time in responding at all.
And what did I get - 'You're sexist!"
Won't bother in future. I'm not sexist - (I
didn't say that all men aren't able to express their
feelings.) I'm not sexist - but he's definitely
a wank - r!

As for your suggestion that I'm 'desperate to be liked?'
Shock, horror,
Coming from you that's revealing. ( And sad for me).
You mean I'm not?

I thought we were friends?
Mea Culpa - if I've offended you in
any way? Here I am happliy coasting along in my own
little world - and you bring me back to harsh reality.

Too cruel!

Foxy

Point taken. I am fed up to the back teeth with the likes of Col, Rusty C, Antiseptic, Houllie, Formersnag, Roscop et al. I know that if I descended to the same level of vitriolic insult as these misrepresentations of the male gender, Graham Young would ban me in an instant. I guess that is why I vented my ire towards you, Foxy. I apologise if you took offence.

My time is valuable, I am prepared to spend time debating with many interesting posters such as Examinator, Pericles or R0bert - neither of whom I agree with on everything - but have zero tolerance for the aforementioned tragics. Houllie's "humour" is the type that is always at another's expense, his current topic regarding middle aged men is indicative of his type of humour - cruel.

Foxy

And furthermore, I do recall Houllie calling you sexist, thereby proving my point that you only have to express an opinion while being female to be labeled. I have clearly been doing too much reacting and not enough reflecting - something I have accused others of.

I am sorry for causing you any harm. Mea culpa.

fractelle “Point taken. I am fed up to the back teeth with the likes of Col, Rusty C, Antiseptic, Houllie, Formersnag, Roscop et al.”

I only ever speak for myself but I see others have come to your attention and doubtless, experience attacks in the same maniacal hysteria form of which I am a victim

Posts from someone who has, errantly, determined that I suffer various mental illnesses and debilities.

You, fractelle, misinterpret the content of medical documents, written for an audience equipped with an interpretive ability positioned well above your own intellect, which leads you to rediagnose me from "psychopath" to “malignant narcissist”.

I sit and ponder, exactly what justification is there for the sort of errant hubris and pompous twaddle, you end up presenting?

In short fractelle merely espouses the ravings of a lowly gardener, incapable of seeing, let alone hurdling over the bar to qualify as part of the medical professions “psychiatric” brethren.

Of course, fractelle, if you actually stopped trying to correct and thereby annoy your betters

I would have no need to address you and you, in turn, would have no need to refer to either

“Mia Culpa”

nor

“Volenti not fit Injuria"

What a great thread, the blogging equivalent of a Rorschach blot.

Otonoko had a visitation from The Suits of Christmas Yet to Come.

>>I sat on the plane for two hours hoping that I would never turn out like that... how do these ambitious, wealthy, successful people turn into cheap suit wearing, ugly shoe buying angry middle-aged men? What are the warning signs?<<

Antiseptic associated the cheap-suit-wearer with a life of voluntary self-inflicted oppression.

>>I have little respect for the people who have so little respect for themselves that they allow themselves to be cogs in someone else's machine.<<

It gave Ludwig the freedom he so craved...

>>I can go off to work happy now, dressed in shorts and singlet<<

...while mikk warns us that...

>>most people don't realise how comprehensively they are being shafted by the dedicated suit-wearers, despite the evidence in the headlines every day.<<

Houellebecq somewhat oddly interjects with that classic Trainspotting riff

>>I chose not to choose life: I chose something else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who need reasons when you've got heroin<<

Master can't understand the fuss.

>>The older folks ... They're happy to look daggy... in their check shirts, old jeans and dirty shoes<<

Rusty's recommendation "go double-breasted" is a dead giveaway, says Wikipedia.

"...popular from the mid 1930s until the mid 1950s, and again from the early 1980s to the late 1980s. Today, double-breasted jackets are considered conservative."

But his tailor is evidently a magician...

>>My [suits] have seen two oscillations of 15 kilos and not been uncomfortable at any stage...

Disguising an extra 15 kilos in a double-breasted suit is masterly work.

http://au.askmen.com/fashion/fashiontip_400/430_how-to-wear-a-double-breasted-suit.html

Col gives us a run-down on his struggles with neckwear...

>>try tying a bow tie from scratch… it is a hell of a task<<

...but really just wants to keep us updated on his sex-life...

>>That “floosy” is my future wife... she does drive a Mercedes SLK235 roadster... weighs in at 43 kg and is as fit as anything... most of us real men are proud of our masculinity<<

Slice-of-life stuff. Brilliant!

As you observe, Col, so many things are best with the right person!

Rusty.

Col:”It is in this book, Red Dragon that one of the characters is a psychopath called “the Tooth Fairy””.

Aw, gotchya. Not many child looks of wonderment compared to looks of distress and terror then.

“My lady is likewise (as yours) influenced by good dressing… she weighs in at 43 kg and is as fit as anything…”

Wow – she’d definitely be one that Fractelle described as looking good in anything.

Hilarious. Nice summary from Pericles.

For the record, I'm a middle-aged man who owns two suits - one relatively expensive tailored job and an off-the-rack less expensive model - that I wear when the occasion demands. And I have to admit that it feels quite good to dress up occasionally.

However, since I live in the bush about the only time they get dusted off is for funerals and the odd obligatory shindig.

The rest of the time I'm a jeans, jacket and boots kinda guy in winter, and a shorts, loud shirt and slides kinda guy in summer.

I have lots of hats though :)

Dear Fractelle,

I can't tell you how relieved and happy
I am to know that 'all's well that ends well,'
between us.

You're one of my favourite posters - and
whatever you do - please don't change your
posting style. I value your honesty and your
opinion.

As for some of the nastiness that gets mis-
directed towards you on OLO - we've all copped
bits of it. Sure it hurts. Anyone who says -
"Sticks and stones..." doesn't know what they're
talking about.

But for every 'nasty,' there's also some amazing
souls on OLO - that's what we need to remember.
They're the ones that keep us interested and
posting.

Take care

Foxy:"mis-directed towards you on OLO"

There's no misdirection - Fractelle tries hard to give as good as she gets, usually before she gets it, then whinges when serve is returned.

Ask yourself why I engage with you in a generally congenial manner, foxy, then ask yourself why the rather dimmer Fractelle gets "nastiness mis-directed" at her.

The difference is that you are able to conduct a civil conversation encompassing views you don't hold personally, whereas the fractelles of this world are all about "holding the line" on their entrenched views and see any deviation from those views as a personal challenge. That's what comes of spending "years in counselling" and self-obsession.

“… whereas the fractelles of this world are all about "holding the line" on their entrenched views and see any deviation from those views as a personal challenge. That's what comes of spending "years in counselling" and self-obsession.”

Oh Anti, you don’t like Fractelles posts because she will stand firm in what she believes? And if you don’t agree with her personal views she considers your argument a challenge?

I’m sure I argue the same way and I thought you did too.

Otherwise we are like a debate club who are handed a topic and personal beliefs or life experience aside we debate how we are told to. In fact isn’t spouting stuff one has no experience of just for arguments sake called trolling?

You are claiming counseling to be self-obsession, I thought it was self-help. Anti you are more grown up than this, if one of your children needed counseling I am certain you would back it up and encourage this positive step.

As for “entrenched”, most of us do find ourselves entrenched, stuck and helpless in some situations. Me with DoCS, you with CSA. Life didn’t seem to hand Fractelle a bowl of cherries either.

TPP:"you don’t like Fractelles posts because she will stand firm in what she believes?"

No, I don't like Fractelle because she has no capacity to argue for what she "believes" and seeks always to portray herself as a victim as soon as anyone challenges her. IOW, I think she's weak-minded and dishonest in her discussion methods as well as self-obsessed.

If she was a bloke I'd call her gutless.

TPP:"if one of your children needed counseling"

I'd counsel him or her, not send them off for years of narcissistic, no-end-in-sight navel-gazing directed by some dimwit who wasn't bright enough to do a real course of study so chose "social work".

Adults get on with things, they don't obsess over their responses to those things simply because someone who's being paid is prepared to sit down and listen to them drone on interminably.

Dear Antiseptic,

I believe that a healthy, vital society
is not one in which we all agree. It's one
in which those who disagree can do so
with honour and respect for other peoples'
opinions, and an appreciation of our shared
humanity. Without personal commitment to
the attributes of fair play and integrity,
our country is in grave danger ...

What I'm trying to say is that there is a
tendency on so many people's parts to think
that their way is the right way and that
people who disagree with them are somehow
flawed.

We can disagree vehemently yet appropriately.
Why can't disagreement be respectful?
Disrespect, labelling, personal insults - they
poison us more than either side's position in
the argument ever could.

There is nothing more unpleasant for me, for
example than to see a man/woman stripped of their power.
We all have the power to diminish. I've watched it happen
in my own home. It's far better to respect a man/woman
who have their own life, their own excitment, their own
passion. Celebrate that in them, honour their variety
and their power. The next time you tell them - "You're
an idiot..." or continue to jab at what you view as
their weaknesses, ask yourself - is this how you want
to be treated?

A-septic

Call me any damn thing you like. In fact lets step outside, like to find out how rusty my Tae Kwon Do is these days.

You should try talking out of your mouth for a change instead of blithering out the other end on about topics of which you have no understanding. As for "home-counselling" your own children if they were ever in need, I believe that should be called "child-abuse". Not once on any of the numerous topics of this website, have you demonstrated a shred of empathy or understanding for other's experiences or feelings.

Nor do you appear to even read my threads, if there is one thing I am it is consistent in my views, while I can and do learn from others and alter my perspective I am still Fractelle and will speak out as I choose on what I choose and there is nothing you can do to silence me - bully.

Haha, this thread is just too funny!

Fractelle,

Just like gays decide to own the word gay, I have decided to own the psychopath label you applied to me not that long ago.

You're very quick to shout 'liar' aren't ya. Reminds me of the time you called 6 posters 'liars', were proven wrong, but couldn't bring yourself to accept it.

'misrepresentations of the male gender'

That's just bizarre. You are absolutely obsessed with gender issues. You really do need help. Has no woman ever disagreed with you? Do none of these male posters also disagree with other male posters? Are men in your little world put into categories of the nice ones and nasty ones, like you assume men put all women into f*ckable and non-f*ckable categories?

'Graham Young would ban me in an instant. I guess that is why I vented my ire towards you, Foxy. I apologise if you took offence.'

Oh yes. Now we're getting somewhere. Just perhaps, it is you that has the problem. A problem with your own fear in dealings with men and confrontation. Cant help reflexively seeing yourself as a victim. So you lash out at a nice lady like Foxy because those brutish men are all in a conspiracy to get you.

'only have to express an opinion while being female to be labeled[sic]. '
Oh I understand. One only has to express an opinion while being male to be labelled a psychopath! See how silly your constant crying about this is? Why cant you just accept that people disagree, male and female. Why are you obsessed about the gender all the time?

'nothing you can do to silence me - bully.'
See this is more utter tosh. If someone disagrees with you they are trying to silence you? Why do you think people would bother? Are your words so dangerous and powerful that they need to be silenced?

I really, really wish you could understand that you have proved everything antiseptic has just said!

Do you really want to be in this hell you seem to be in of thinking when people disagree or say nasty things it's just because you're female and that people are trying to silence you? It's all in your head, let it go. It's such a scary reality you've created for yourself. The rest of us are here to have fun and trade a few jibes.

antiseptic,

'If she was a bloke I'd call her gutless.'
Now that's really sexist. What do you reckon Foxy?

Foxy,

That whole speel about being nice, after just calling me a w@nker because I dared to suggest your comment was sexist. Oh, that's right you're just joking. That's a common tactic of bullying. Excuse me for having an opinion while being male. I wont be silenced!

You watching Fraccy?

As pericles observed, this whole post is becoming “a slice-of-life”

But to bring us back on track I might ask Houellebecq

What is the fashion minded psychopath wearing this spring?

I personally waver between:

one of those hospital green rubber aprons accessorized with white, mid calf rubber boots mask and maybe a cheery hospital issue head scarf, all so convenient for repelling blood splatter, provided you can overcome the smell of latex.

Your basic “Existentialist / Goth” Black… something which my dear old mum used to worry about when yours truly was evolving.

Of course leather is always a popular choice, quite durable and brings its own mildly kinky charisma to a butchers party.

Maybe the double breasted suit (cheap or otherwise) is good for simply accommodating a wider range of cutlery, to better slice and dice ones victim.

Alternately, “Rivers” do a range of cheap, casual clothing, which is not too much a burden on the wallet, when we need to burn the blood soaked garments and presents us, through their name, with a convenient reminder to wash up after a disemboweling.

So H.. your view...... and don't be silenced.....

I know I never am...

occassionally banned and sometimes otherwise occupied but never silenced! LOL

OLO is becoming a bit Days of Our Lives.

Group hug anyone?

Haha Col.

'presents us, through their name, with a convenient reminder to wash up after a disembowelling. '
That's deliciously creepy! I've got tears in my eyes and workmates wondering what the hell I'm doing.

Hey have you seen/read American Psycho. My favourite bit was when he was getting really upset that the font on the other guys business card was better than his. That and when he recited the biography of Huey Lewis and Whitney Housten while preparing to wield a chainsaw.

Thanks for lightening up the thread.

I cant imagine you as a Goth growing up. I would imagine you a mod or a new romantic. All dapper and dandy.

Actually I decided the other day you are dead ringer for the Maurice Minnifield character in Northern Exposure

Antiseptic,

Your attitudes to counselling are quite unconventional. I think it's a matter of the age of the person and the quality of the counsellor. I really think you could benefit from some. Maybe psychiatry you'd have more respect for? Maybe OLO is your counsellor to deal with and direct your anger at from your ex.

Introspection on your own only goes so far without someone to call you on your own self defeating and self excusing bullsh!t. People can be too hard or too soft on themselves.

With your kids, you may not be able to help as much as you think. Kids don't often trust adults, I know I didn't. Probably why I hate suits! Enough revealed. But I really think you should keep an open mind.

'Adults get on with things, they don't obsess over their responses...'

A good motto is Think Less and Do More. It always seems to work for me. Stops you being too analytical and gets you out there.

Anyway, you shouldn't judge people unless you've been through what they have. Fraccy has had some bad times, and although I'm not sure the counselling has worked, at least she was brave enough to seek help. That's adult too, not self obsessed.

Dear Houellebecq,

I called you a 'wank -r,' because you were
behaving like one.

I wrote in my initial post unlike women, - some men tend
not to speak about their feelings - because they
do have other problems - which I also listed -
(as did you in your thread). I entered this discussion
in good faith, thinking you wanted to have a serious
discussion - and what did I get? Being labelled -
'sexist,' by you. That's not giving an opinion
- that's being a bully!(or as I said - for want of
a better word - a 'wank -r.') You can try to
excuse your behaviour - it doesn't change the
fact of what you did.

You seem to belong to that class of people who feel that
you have to take sides - men, or women.

I disapprove of that kind of thing. It's like
when you tell someone that you like Arabs,
some people immediately think you don't like Jews.
How did that little equation pop up?

Most of us prefer to avoid confrontation but the
truth is that some people are homophobic in the
worst imaginable sense. They even make pretentious
judgements about age, and the quality and style of clothing
that others wear!

Foxy

I have learned a lot here today:

1. If I behave like you I won't get called names (according to A-septic).

2. But Foxy, you do get labels for expressing your opinion.

3. I prefer to be myself, rather than copying others - besides I get to try on other personas with my acting, so I just revel in being myself here on OLO.

4. A-septic was trying to control me by blaming me for his insulting behaviour. Like I said, a bully.

My ex-husband was a bully. Not so long ago I discovered an old song from the 60's, I think, which summarises how I felt being treated as a possession/show pony. It is a terrific song, which I think was written way before Germaine Greer's Female Eunuch.

The song also summarises the views expressed here by such as Col, A-septic et al, who quite clearly are totally bummed they cannot control the female contributors to OLO.

And thank the Goddess for that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWCMhL5qxlE&NR=1

Wrong Foxy.

I said 'How Sexist' not 'You're sexist'. I commented on the quote. If you choose to take it personally so be it. I don't care if you call me a w@nker Foxy. Water off a ducks back really. I just like the police to be consistent as you know!

'You seem to belong to that class of people who feel that
you have to take sides - men, or women.'
Oh, 'those people'. They're terrible aren't they. Like the cheap suit wearers.

But, no. That's Fraccy. I'm not the one obsessed with the gender of the posters.

How did homophobic come into the equation?

'They even make pretentious
judgements about age, and the quality and style of clothing
that others wear!'
We all do Foxy. That's part of the point of the post, which only Robert and pelican looked like exploring. I work on many layers you know. Pretentious? Maybe, but I put some thought into this topic. I think it's been entertaining too.

It's getting quite dramatic now too! It's like a party when people have had a few too many drinks and the girls are in a circle crying about something or other. All that's missing is a few fist fights from the guys now.

I used to like you Foxy but you're starting to sound like a sour old cow.

Although I'm interested that in the first reply to my post you re-explained yourself (not necessary, as I never said you were sexist, and it was a throwaway comment anyway) and ended with 'take care'. Then Fractelle gets her knickers in a twist and you decide some solidarity is needed so you then call me a w@nker. It is a womans prerogative to change her mind I suppose:-)

Ah, its a funny world.

'summarises how I felt being treated as a possession/show pony'
Ah! So that's why you clash with Col so much!

Dear Houellebecq,

Was the sentence - "sour old cow?" a throw-away line
as well? Let me set the record straight - I'm far
too positive in my outlook, far too young, and far
too good-looking to fit that description. Try again!

However, on second thought - your attitude reminds
me of a story ...

It's - "Grunter the story of a pig with Attitude!"

"There once was a small green farm, with a LARGE
pink problem. Grunter was the problem. He was
called Grunter because that's what he does!
(grunt grunt).

He HATES everything... and everyone.
He is overfed... and overweight.
He is mad, bad, ANGRY and sad.
(and dangerous to know on days with a 'd' in).

HE has SERIOUS attitude...
and SHOCKING wind!

Yesterday he flattened the farmer,
spat on the cat,
DUNKED the dog,
CATAPULTED the cow
and MASHED three short-sighted mice into the mud.

The day before, he bit the possum,
grabbed the goat and
CHOKED the chicks with one of his outbursts.

He ran AMOK in the MUCK,
sat on the sheep,
and dropped something DIRTY on the duck!

The other animals thought that he was TOO BIG
for his trotters.
(mutter mutter mumble grumble).

The other animals THOUGHT
that he should be taught a lesson.

Then came Grunter's birthday
and he was ALL ALONE!

NO-ONE remembered...

OR HAVE THEY?...

When Grunter tried to blow out the candles
on his Birthday cake - there was a loud
explosion -

B $#$#$# O O $#$#$ M!

Grunter became the pig that WAS the problem
on the small green farm.

He was last seen hurtling towards outer space."

The story is Mike Jolley's and Deborah Allwright's.
It's meant to teach children "how not to treat your
fellow man, or pig!"

Enjoy your gruntlement!

“No, I don't like Fractelle because she has no capacity to argue for what she "believes" and seeks always to portray herself as a victim as soon as anyone challenges her. IOW, I think she's weak-minded and dishonest in her discussion methods as well as self-obsessed.”

Thank you for your response dear heart… pfft – nup I can’t sustain it… Could have been funny but at this end of the wire I got the giggles.

I never saw that in Fractelle but we haven’t argued (sorry for discussing you by the way Fractelle, it’s a bit weird). Probably because except for a brief debate about cavemen and astronauts that got swallowed by the godsquad we haven’t had anything to argue about. What is IOW?

“If she was a bloke I'd call her gutless.”

You sexist pig. I know, water off a ducks back and all. How can anyone be gutless in typing or scared of a typed back response? You should immediately get over yourself. Col is the only one here that occasionally gives me a sharp stabbing pain between the eyes as I reach for my dictionary.

“I'd counsel him or her, not send them off for years of narcissistic, no-end-in-sight navel-gazing directed by some dimwit who wasn't bright enough to do a real course of study so chose "social work".

You are talking through your smelly tube there baby. Do you have a black singlet?

“Adults get on with things, they don't obsess over their responses to those things simply because someone who's being paid is prepared to sit down and listen to them drone on interminably.”

Un huh, you are being silly. We all know sometimes adults need help.

I’m guessing your average counselor would kind of have an attitude where they are actually quite interested in other humans and how they feel.

But it isn’t something I know about, I know there are different kinds of counseling or treatment and that’s about the extent of my knowledge.

Shuddup Pelican you tosser... oh god, apologies... why on earth can't I go out of character even for fun?

I suspect the reason that Antiwomen is also so anti-counselling is because he's in such obviously dire need of it - but has no hope of it helping him with his personality problems because he refuses to acknowledge that he has any.

Another likely possibility is that his ex-wife was empowered enough by some form of counselling to leave him to his own miserable company.

On the basis of the often quite viciously insensitive attacks he makes on others (mostly women) here at OLO, I'd agree that he'd be the last person who should counsel children about anything.

This thread is so shallow it wouldn't drown an ant. Are we saying that if this guy continued doing everything the same apart from wearing a more expensive suit in his 9-6 grind then he'd be a higher worth individual? Perhaps he goes shopping for clothes and asks himself whether an extra $500 should be spent on the suit or on his kids xmas presents, or their education, or a holiday, or something else of more practical value. When I started out in suits I wore CK and YSL, they wore out and became worthless in the same time as a cheaper version, and don't look a whole lot different. If you're making suits such a priority you're probably lacking elsewhere.

HarryC "This thread is so shallow it wouldn't drown an ant."

ah but you decided, none the less, to get your feet wet.

To "Are we saying that if this guy continued doing everything the same apart from wearing a more expensive suit in his 9-6 grind then he'd be a higher worth individual"

Wearing a suit makes no difference there, as anyone who wears a suit could tell you -

We do not wear suits to "enhance our worth" but to demonstrate it.

I have to buy a new dinner suit (the last one was ceremonially burnt by a previous and particulalry toxic "Mrs CR" who took delight in exercising her billious whims) I am shopping around and also have slimmed down to a point I can actually wear single and double breasted suits which would not previously transverse my girth... just one of the rewards of dancing. For which one of the other rewards comes in the form of my dance partner but thats another tale....

as for YSL and CK.. well whatever you pay for their rags, you can still find examples of the same cutter and seamstress work in the specials of DFO under any number of labels.. its a bit like buying a Holden Barina.. you are just spending extra on the badge, not the garment or the car

and of course.. what really matter is not the car but how you drive it.....

just as the suit does not make the man but it is the man who makes the suit.

HarryC

Bull's-eye!

"Shuddup Pelican you tosser... oh god, apologies... why on earth can't I go out of character even for fun?"

You don't like group hugs Pied? :)

Come on you guys - for Houlley this is like fish in a barrel stuff.

Harry C
Hey settle down about the cruelty to ants bit.

Have you considered "it's so shallow that even an amoeba doesn't need gum boots?"

Or perhaps I've seen more depth in tracks on computer chips ?

helpful suggestion from aquaphobic
Examinator ant and eAnt :-)

Pelican:“You don't like group hugs Pied? :)”

Any hug these days that doesn’t leave goobers on me is A-okay with me.

I’ve been trying for days just to be nasty to someone but can’t manage it, I feel I am missing something important that lots of OLO users have.

Minds out of the gutter gentlemen.

Now I’m worried examinator is gonna call me P-ant.

'Enjoy your gruntlement!'

I will Foxy. I always do.

TPP,

'why on earth can't I go out of character even for fun?'
Haha. I'm so busy playing different characters I don't even know when I'm in character any more.

pelican,

'for Houlley this is like fish in a barrel stuff.'
Actually I once went fishing at a trout farm in Austria and couldn't catch one.
I must say I'm happy with what I've created here though.

Such as....

A platform for some of Cols finest work!

'We do not wear suits to "enhance our worth" but to demonstrate it.'
Arf Afr! Ah Col, it's really not fair you're work so often goes unappreciated.

An opportunity to illicit scorn from the judgemental and high and mighty.

Bringing out the quotes such as ... 'When you wear a suit you are publicly declaring whose side you are on'

Getting somewhere with Fractelle and her issues with men.

Pissing off the Police (Foxy) again.

Even when people think I'm the shallowest of the shallow, showing I can drain a little more out of the pool.

Oh, Oktono's 'what had happened in his life to make him think that purchasing such disgusting footwear was desirable or even acceptable'. Oooh such delicious anger! So much more revealing and honest and open and interesting than the snide 'you're shallow' posters.

All in all, smugly knowing that most of what I'm on about flies over people's heads. Sure I can be incoherent and obtuse and rarely serious, but I provided a platform for much deeper discussions, and you were all involved, but decided to take the easier and more entertaining route. Not a bad thing, but the accusations of shallowness and pointed fingers should hence be turned upon themselves.

Houel how do you do it?

I do my little private rants at people in my editor, find it kind of stress relieving, but I couldn’t on purpose click “post” if I was pretending to be someone else or if I (and I really suffer from this) think it would really hurt someone’s feelings and especially if directed at a known female.

Hey I have a pair of red “crocks” I love love love them. No I don’t wear them in public!

My daughter right now is sitting in front of me wearing her MacDonalds uniform and has to walk to work… what a sucker.

TPP,

'and especially if directed at a known female.'
How Odd. So you think one should be nicer to females than males? Not a feminist I presume.

See, now if someone like you, who I don't see ever post anything nasty, wanted to be the police like Foxy or Fractelle, I could handle that. But some of the stuff those two come out with is really nasty, even if they always say it's in 'retaliation'. Then they go on as if they're so 'nice', and bang on that people should be more like them. I think you're nice though. Actually 'nice' is a stupid word. Nobody is nice or nasty, people are just people.

McDonalds uniform would suck. I used to be so desperate and excited to change out of my school uniform when I got home from school, and refused to be seen in it outside school. School is where they train you to be a drone. Someone rings a bell and people obediently get up and wander off to the next lesson, kids are no more than sheep. I always used to say the bloody lazy teachers should move, there's only one of them and 30 of us.

Dear Houellebecq,

Most people have more than one 'layer,' to them
but if a person only consistently shows us just
the one layer - we can only take them at face
value. You claim you wanted a 'serious,' discussion
on this topic - but that's not possible when you make
people feel like scapecoats, who you feel threatened by.

As I wrote on another post - I think it is important
to be secure and unafraid of speaking your own mind.
If your intentions are not just to win the game, then
you can feel good that you've spoken your mind without
malice or anger but just from the depths of your truth.
However, that's difficult to continue to do - when
someone keeps making fun of you and continually jabs
at you, and then accuses you of not taking part in
a 'serious,' discussion.

Ah well, no matter who we are, I guess sometimes
things don't always work out the way we want!

H,
I'm intrigued how you interpolate your seeming lack of regard for others sensitivities as being a good thing? To me that is plain ordinary wantonly boorish.

Assuming that people like Foxy or me are playing 'policeman' is a borderline paranoid narcissism. i.e. that you are somehow the centre and therefore any disagreement with what you 'say' is a personal attack on you personally. Don't you think it might simply be a request to tone it down a bit. BTW Putting something politely doesn't compromise the integrity of your views. Punk attitudes are so adolescent.

Fractelle like all of us has issues on some topics and at time bites when she shouldn't but to deliberately bait her as you seem to makes one wonder why? It's hardly funny nor is it fun unless you have sociopathic dysfunctions .... that make all conversations either a matter of personal integrity or esteem that drives a overly confrontational persona

Foxy,

I was saying the topic has many layers. I'm plainly as shallow as they come. Just ask around!

There's much more to explore and fun to be had rather than 'you're shallow'. Some people managed to get into the spirit, others decided to tut tut. That's life. Anyway, once people have certain preconceptions, 'face value' goes out the window. You lot are NOT interested in face value, just look at how much time you all spend searching through posting histories of posters.

This site would be infinitely more useful if all comments were anonymous and there was no posting history and people would be FORCED to address points at face value. But it wouldn't be any fun for me then as I'm only interested in the characters.

It just happens that I have been brave enough to admit to an ugliness of character that the 'nice' posters avoided. Believe if you will that they are just inherently better people, but I say everyone has irrational hatreds. Everyone pre-judges sometimes.

There is absolutely no malice in my work. I am interested in the characters and dynamics of the OLO characters. Nothing more nothing less. If I can create drama I will, as that's when the true colours begin to be shown. Heated arguments are infinitely more entertaining and revealing than pompous pseudo-intellectual twaddle. I like to see the passion.

My intentions are never to win any game, just to create some kind of chaos. I find endless amusement seeing the depths of depravity discussions can get to. But I did maintain a level on this thread above scouts!

I take you point about not 'allowing' you to be serious by way of my joking around too much. People are different and I can joke and be serious at the same time. I will remember that the jokes throw you and try to relate accordingly.

Houellebecq all I can say is

You are developing into a real thinker based on the criticism you are getting from some others LOL

keep up the good work and btw

"'We do not wear suits to "enhance our worth" but to demonstrate it.'

Arf Afr! Ah Col, it's really not fair you're work so often goes unappreciated."

It pleases me that I have, at last, found an appreciative readership.. I will endeavour to hone even greater prose in future LOL

RE "An opportunity to illicit scorn from the judgemental and high and mighty."

that has always been one of the goals.. expecially that little gang of small minds who have self-appointed themselves as the arbiters of acceptable opinions on OLO - no names, no pack drill... we all know who you are...

to finish what you left off one of the quotes from my previous posts....

Re “ You wear a suit
You are the enemy!

Then, I would will be with the enemy, at least they have some fashion sense….. (and carry bigger guns)."

I will happily defend my position, regardless of the degree of bleating from the great unwashed, the proletariate rabble.

Better Dead than Red or even Socialist Bland (especially when I can guarantee taking a few with me)

the pompous examinator,

What a load of twaddle. Nothing wrong with your ego is there. Why cant you and Foxy get the simple concept that I deplore the hypocrisy of someone who dishes it out when it suits them but calls for all this etiquette all the time.

'but to deliberately bait her as you seem to makes one wonder why?'

I'm just try to get through to her. I'm sure I'm not alone in tiring of some of her games. Maybe they are involuntary, but if so my pointing them out is a good thing. It's certainly no different to you attempting to point out my shortcomings here. Antiseptic was much harsher (but still on the money) but he escaped censure it seems.

Then on the other hand, how much seriously cruel stuff has been said to antiseptic? Really there's been some low, disgusting, really offensive stuff said to him even about his daughter. Really nasty stuff. There's deafening silence from the police when that happens.

'sociopathic dysfunctions'
No it's psychopathic dysfunctions. Ask Fraccy she's the psychiatrist. She gave me the Label ages ago, then in this thread she 'analysed' Col. But she's one of the 'nice' posters, so it was all in fun when she does it. She's a victim you know. She's the one being bullied.

So this makes me wonder, what is it that I do differently that is so offensive to you. I've hardly attacked people personally (I can use the 'retaliate' defence too you know), I'm not offended when people attack me. Is it that I dare to make light of things and enjoy myself I wonder. Poor you.

I've said I liked Foxy, and that she was nice on this thread, defended Fractelle when anti called her self obsessed. Man you lot are hard to please.

'BTW Putting something politely doesn't compromise the integrity of your views. Punk attitudes are so adolescent.'

Conversely putting something in pompous prose and using big words doesn't make you better or more intelligent than someone who uses colourful language and doesn't take themselves seriously.

Awwwwwwww.

>>It pleases me that I have, at last, found an appreciative readership.. I will endeavour to hone even greater prose in future LOL<<

That's SO sweet.

“How Odd. So you think one should be nicer to females than males? Not a feminist I presume.”

I might be worse, or the opposite. Yep for me I feel I have to be nicer to females.

Maybe the other side of it is I am blind to other females being nasty to males.

“even if they always say it's in 'retaliation'. Then they go on as if they're so 'nice', and bang on that people should be more like them.”

In what way? I’ve just been cruising around missing this stuff completely.

“I think you're nice though.” Actually 'nice' is a stupid word. Nobody is nice or nasty, people are just people.”

Knuckles H. I just seem “people” because by the time I have found out what a subject is about and gathered enough info so as to have a strong opinion everyone else has moved on and left me hanging.

“I always used to say the bloody lazy teachers should move, there's only one of them and 30 of us.”

Good point, except for like the tech drag teacher and cooking and stuff. Hey does Oz have Mufti Days where pupils go in normal clothes, know anyone that wore a suit?

Foxy:“As I wrote on another post - I think it is important
to be secure and unafraid of speaking your own mind.”

See I am definitely not secure. I’m afraid for others.

This feeling of not knowing how another person is when reading what I write. Their child could have died that day or something and they haven’t said anything. I know – my imagination is my own worst enemy.[smile]

You're always going to struggle expressing individualism in a suit anyway. Let me see, single or double (no always single now), 3 button or 4 button, stripes or flat, grey or blue or black, or brown if we're feeling daring. Oh but the tie, the tie is the unrestricted canvas where we can go wild and show everyone we aren't stuck up 'suits', so we'll make that silk (expensive, it matters) with diagonal stripes.

The amoeba walked off this thread onto dry concrete and didn't even leave footprints.

Dear Houellebecq,

I am not a complicated person. I take things
at face value - and I genuinely try not to
hurt people. I wake up every day with the
intention to be loving and happy as best
as I can. I try to make each a new day
without carrying over the baggage from the
previous day. I've always tried to
put myself in the other person's shoes, so I
can feel what they're feeling, not just what
I'm feeling. I try to look with four eyes instead
of just my two.

The key to any
discussion is to be able to communicate - and
that is extremely difficult when people aren't connecting.
People either connect or they don't.

From what you've written about me -
We obviously don't. (And by the way, just
for the record - I've never looked up someone's
posting history - as I said - I take things at
face value).

Still I won't worry too
much about it - you've got plenty of support
from your other people. You're in good
company - (no sarcasm intended - I like my
head too much).

I do feel a slight twinge of regret
though, on what could have been ... because in
some ways I'm also hyper, and like to make things
move, but there is a spot of calm deep within me,
from which I don't stray too far ...

Ah well, life is full of regrets,
this one is something that I will have to
learn to live with.

Just before I go though, I'd like to contribute to your
thread one more time - there have been many posts on
the topic of fashion trends - here's my view ...

cont'd...

cont'd...

Fashion to me spells - luxury.
It comes in all shapes and sizes.
Like a morning in the Louis Feraud boutique in Toorak,
(with someone else's credit card).

I dream of luxury with unashamed extravagance -
Dior couture, a Valentino ballgown, investing
in the ultimate accessory; a witty velvet slipper,
designer fragrance, a slip of silk, small exquisite
pieces that are the lynch pins of style and can change
your mood, your look. Daydreaming you can have the
luxury of choice, you can go anywhere in your mind ...
It's pure fantasy ... and that's a fact!

"Some people believe that luxury
is the opposite of poverty.
No - it is the opposite of vulgarity."
Gabrielle (Coco) Chanel.

"Give me the luxuries of life
and I will willingly do without
the necessities."
Frank Lloyd Wright.

HarryC "The amoeba walked off this thread onto dry concrete and didn't even leave footprints"

Ah well... thats the last we will here from that ameoba then

As for "You're always going to struggle expressing individualism in a suit anyway. "

but it is sure easier to express it that way than being forced to wear those black pajamas the vietcong wore or the regulation boiler suits more popular with the socialists.

and like I said,... its the man who makes the suit.... not the otherway around....

so I guess HarryC... just did not make the cut... or help the cut of his suit even

Houellebecq:"ow much seriously cruel stuff has been said to antiseptic"

[Pomeranian mode on]
Ah, but that doesn't count, because antiseptic isn't "one of us" and he sometimes asks questions, the bully. Even worse, he's a misogynist who hates all women. That's obvious because he calls them "dear".

It's the duty of all "reasonable" and "enlightened" members of OLO to abuse him roundly every time he posts, becuase that way no one will be bullied by his questions and "we" don't run the risk of breaking out in thought.
[Pomeranian mode off]

The grey men (and their drab women) in their grey suits and their grey, slow, turgid thoughts are, as always, doing their monochrome best to throw a grey blanket of authoritarian conformity over what could be a colourful and enjoyable discussion group.

I'm more comfortable in fluoro yellow or safety orange - at least it gives the poor things something to aim at, even if it increses the risk of being buried under a grey papier-mache pile of spitballs.

How sad that this discussion has deteriorated
to this breakdown in communication.
I was hoping that we could deal constructively
with the situation with the ultimate goal of
stumulating further discussion. It seems
that people are unable to deal with things in a
positive way - and are reluctant or unable to
modify their judgements - they're more interested
in condemnation than explanation.

Time to move on to another thread ...Looks like
they'll be no group hugs on this one.

"Little Miss Muffet
Arose from her tuffet
To box with the old kangaroo.

There came a big wombat
To join in the combat,
And little Miss Muffet withdrew."

Houellebecq,
You know me! But you do not know that I born in a cave! Greece had war with Italians (Nusoline) after Germans (Xitler) and after civil war.
My unkle was communist captain, my father was head of my vilage and in the special forces with Westerns. For many moths per year my family and other vilagers was moving in a rocky castle with caves to protect their lifes. I born there! While I born in a cave I am not a Neandertal but ONLY a cave man!
In my life I put suit ONLY in the church when I married! NEVER again. I was member of a developed council where most times was president of Democracy. Many times of cause my job I was in meatings with top level political personalities. NEVER BUT NEVER I PUT ON SUIT.
I feel as a clown if I wear a suit. I born free and I do not like the press from the customs. or fashions or suits.
You can call me a CAVE MAN BUT DO NOT ASK ME TO WEAR SUIT. I WILL NOT!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

To Foxy from Leonard Cohen,

It’s just the way it changes

Like the shoreline and the sea,

But let’s not talk of love or chains

And things we can’t untie,

You eyes are soft with sorrow

Hey, that’s no way to say goodbye.

http://stereogum.com/archives/lemonheads-liv-tyler-cover-leonard-cohen-stereogum-premiere_063562.html

To Piper from the Muppets:

"Don't want to leave, but we both know
Sometimes it's better to simply go
Somehow I know, we'll meet again
Not sure quite where, and I don't know
just when
You're in my heart, so until then
Wanna smile, wanna cry
Saying goodbye..."

http://www.songlyrics.com/muppets/saying-goodbye-lyrics/

ASymeonakis “I feel as a clown if I wear a suit.”

Yes that’s what I was saying

“It is not the suit which makes the man but the man who makes the suit” and

in ASymeonakis case, it would appear to be the clown who makes the clown suit.

Others find office workers in suits boring but I find the increasing use brightly coloured safety wear amongst blue collar workers to be more depressing. Surely it it possible for some of them to safely enter a worksite without looking so ridiculous.

Okay Foxy for you; a tribute to the greatest and best song in the world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcJwz7wu8_s

And for our OLO man in love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_PIadFsvDk

What a contrast between those two ‘tubes Jewely. Blackjack and old Lenny – I like them both.

Hey Ludwig, I am a big Cohen fan whereas really only know Jack’s movies.

But I woke up this morning and suspect I have reached some higher plain of existence. I have two songs stuck in my head at the same time.

Pearl Jam’s “I am mine” and Leonard’s “Everybody Knows". I’ve probably had an aneurism.

And a question for the gentlemen; Does being a well dressed person in the day time also cross over to bedtime? Nice PJ’s?

PJ's?

What are they?

Piper's Jewels?

While I'm here - I agree about Leonard, Piper. I was listening to his 'Live in London' 2008 album earlier. Sublime.

Piper

Loved the Jack Black vid - a fan also from some of his movies.

And Leonard Cohen is always sublime, I was a fan even when I was so young that I didn't get his lyrics - the emotion resonated with me I guess.

PJ's? Not necessary. But NEVER EVER leave your socks on.

That's imagery I could do without on a Monday morning.

>>PJ's? Not necessary. But NEVER EVER leave your socks on.<<

I'm intrigued, Fractelle.

Have you ever met a man who wears socks to bed?

I enjoyed the Jack Black clip Piper

Leonard Cohen sounds and looks like Brian Ferry with emphysema

as to PJs... I have not worn in years and these days follow the minimalist doctrine...

skin to skin

mmmmmmmmmmmm

as to socks in bed.. I heard using a condom described as akin to wearing your socks in the bath.

I wear business socks. For business time! That's why they call them business socks!

Ah, I love the Conchords...

Col,' I have not worn in years and these days follow the minimalist doctrine...

skin to skin

mmmmmmmmmmmm
'

Oh, Col. You don't know what you do to me!

'I heard using a condom described as akin to wearing your socks in the bath.'
Maybe not! A bit too much seepage. Not very safe sex that! Raincoat in the shower is the best description I think. I've always thought it's not worth the effort with condoms really.

Foxy,

'How sad that this discussion has deteriorated
to this breakdown in communication. '
Where? You think we're arguing I think we're starting to get to know each other! (Yes I saw Jerry McGuire recently.) Me thinks you take life much too seriously.

'From what you've written about me -
We obviously don't. '
Are you breaking up with me Foxy? It's not you, it's me!

'I do feel a slight twinge of regret
though, on what could have been'
As do I Foxy. Maybe we'll just keep breaking up and getting back together again when we end up in bed together every couple of months for a while.

He I'm now reminded of another 'young ones' scene. A carrot and some other vegetable are dancing around on a plate, when one of the house mates squashes the plates together while cleaning up, crushing the other vegetable.

Other vegetable: 'Darling Carrot, could you ever love a cripple.'
Carrot: 'No. I don't think so.'

ASymeonakis,

I hear ya! I find it really degrading to wear a suit.

Pericles:

<< Have you ever met a man who wears socks to bed? >>

Anecdotally. But the mental image, not good at all.

Why am I not surprised that Col?

a) Doesn't get Leonard Cohen
b) Writes creepy posts

Ah, memory lane...

>>'Darling Carrot, could you ever love a cripple.'
Carrot: 'No. I don't think so.'<<

Reminds me of that Billy Connolly gem...

Mummy, Daddy and Baby cucumber were the happiest family alive.

One day, while Mummy cucumber was in the kitchen doing the washing, Baby cucumber wandered out into the road, in front of a passing car...

Daddy cucumber rushed home from work...

"Oh, Mummy cucumber he's not... he isn't... tell me..."

"No, Daddy cucumber, he's alive, they've taken him to hospital...

... but the doctor says, he'll be a vegetable for the rest of his life"

Anti:”I'm more comfortable in fluoro yellow or safety…”

Oh my god – down at my local Red Rooster lately (I go early to avoid other families and my lot can have the run of the play area) there is the cutest group of guys in yellow fluro gear. No idea where they work but I sit at my little table sipping the most disgusting coffee you can buy listening to children squeal enjoying the eye candy.

A spiffing looking dude in a suit would look silly in this situation. Okay I know, no man that likes his suit is gonna go park up there anyways.

Fractelle, if anyone could explain the Leonard Cohen song “Democracy” to me I’d be eternally grateful. It’s weird having a favourite song and not understanding it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OETwbVBPI1U

And for the record; I am disappointed in so many, I love my jammies, nighties, dressing gowns and my socks on in winter, and yes my socks match my jammies!

Where is the fun in starting naked?

Surely pericles deserves some sort of award for squeezing a Young Ones quote into OLO, of all places.

Piper

I guess I was thinking more of the fling type relationship regarding the wearing of socks.

One of the wonderful things about a healthy long term relationship is the ability to be totally yourself with another person you love - where it doesn't matter if you fart and 'morning mouth' doesn't mean racing off to the bathroom first before having a 'snuggle'.

As for Col not 'getting' Leonard Cohen, I doubt very much he is even very familiar with the poet and his music. And then, there are some people who don't like Leonard - a significant ex thought Leonard was "pretentious" but then he was a card carrying Republican (this was when I lived in the USA).

As for your point about the hunky fluoro guys - I'm with you. In a way I agree with Col it is not the clothing that is important but the man - except not in an arrogant snotty alpha male way. Col managed to contradict his statement with his litany of what HE wears and just revealed himself as a snob.

One thing about suits: a suit looks great when the hunky tradie dons a suit for a special event - suits look great when the man attired in such doesn't usually wear them.

PS

As for understanding all Cohen lyrics - I do a lot better now than when I was nine, but don't claim any expertise. So I will leave you wondering about "Democracy". Actually I will go and really listen now because you have piqued my curiosity - but my interpretation may not resonate with yours.

Houellebecq “Oh, Col. You don't know what you do to me!”

Watch out of it will be a bucket of cold water instead of a shower… and yes.. “raincoat in the shower” is another expression with which I am familiar

Fractelle “Why am I not surprised that Col?

a) Doesn't get Leonard Cohen
b) Writes creepy posts”

Leonard Cohen is not some “saint” of the music world – with a name like “Cohen” he would be disqualified, I suspect.

Nothing creepy about skin-to-skin, fractelle.

I suppose some of us have got it and those who don’t are usually doing the world a service by staying covered up.

TPP “Where is the fun in starting naked?”

Who said we start in the bedroom?

Fractelle “a significant ex . . . . . then he was a card carrying Republican…”

he must have been "significantly slumming"

“Col managed to contradict his statement with his litany of what HE wears and just revealed himself as a snob.”

Well as we all know you are a self appointed judgmentalist and if you determine that others with standards to be “snobs”, then in “fractelle-world”, I obviously must be one.

Actually I always imagine fractelle wearing a second hand set of those SES utilitarian khaki trousers and bib… along with gum boots…. Hardly what the elegant around town would wear but that also conforms with the fractelle persona - the fashion weary road sweeper around town

Banjo “Col,
You have erroniously attributed those comments to me. Please check.”

You are correct.. I should have addressed the comment to “Peter the Believer”

Please accept my profound apology, Banjo.

Col R...

and maybe Peter the Believer could respond

TPP “Where is the fun in starting naked?”

Col:”Who said we start in the bedroom?”

Touché

Col:

<< Actually I always imagine fractelle wearing a second hand set of those SES utilitarian khaki trousers and bib… along with gum boots…. >>

Har, har, har - only during the fire crisis earlier this year, Col. And I'm told I look cute even in gum-boots.

I guess it is the woman rather than the clothes...

:-)

What an entertaining thread this is! Love the Billy Connolly and Young Ones references... not to mention Leonard. In fact, since I'm home with a vile head cold I just played Cohen's "Democracy" again after reading Piper's comment. I think it's a truly brilliant song:

<<Sail on, sail on
O mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
Past the Reefs of Greed
Through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on.
It's coming to America first,
the cradle of the best and of the worst.
It's here they got the range
and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.
It's here the family's broken
and it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open
in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A. >>

I think that this is a pretty straightforward Cohen song - it's an optimistic plea that the USA has to lead the world to true democracy (i.e. 'rule by the people' as opposed to the flawed versions that currently exist) by overcoming its own gross inequalities and internal hatreds, tinged by the irony that the world's foremost "democracy" is from that ideal in practice.

We were lucky enough to hear him (and his superlative band) perform it earlier this year, where it had added resonance due to the recent election of Obama as US Preasident.

Col Rouge: << Leonard Cohen is not some “saint” of the music world – with a name like “Cohen” he would be disqualified, I suspect. >>

Actually, I think that Leonard Cohen is probably one of the closest things that contemporary music has produced to a "saint" in the past 40 years or so. His philosophies, personal lifestyle and disdain for the trappings of stardom are pretty well peerless among 60s music relics. However, I'm not at all surprised that he's not popular among Republicans, nor that Col doesn't "get" him.

I've never paid $300 to see a humbler performer :)

Also, on topic:

Fractelle: << One thing about suits: a suit looks great when the hunky tradie dons a suit for a special event - suits look great when the man attired in such doesn't usually wear them. >>

It has to be said that Leonard Cohen, although the antithesis of a "hunky tradie", is one of those guys who don't usually wear suits, but looks great in one. As a septuagenarian, he wears a pin-stripe and fedora with incomparable style.

Be still, my beating heart...

>>...I'm told I look cute even in gum-boots.<<

Fractelle, I'm upping the offer of G&T on the terrace to a gently chilled bottle of M. Roederer's finest...

Surely you mean Louis Roederer, Pericles?

In which case Manolo's or Blunnies?

That's the man.

>>Surely you mean Louis Roederer, Pericles?<<

Apologies, I was being unnecessarily formal

>>In which case Manolo's or Blunnies?<<

Bring both, we'll see how the evening unfolds...

CJ:”I think that this is a pretty straightforward Cohen song - it's an optimistic plea that the USA has to lead the world to true democracy (i.e. 'rule by the people' as opposed to the flawed versions that currently exist) by overcoming its own gross inequalities and internal hatreds, tinged by the irony that the world's foremost "democracy" is from that ideal in practice.”

So really he’s being sarcastic?

But it’s the references to “dock on the bay”, “Sermon on the Mount”, “heart of Chevrolet” that I don’t get.

It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.
From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here
and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Love love love this new one…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d-8hxLMOcg

Pericles

Of course "Monsieur", how very gauche of me.

Now I am intrigued, I believe in choices especially as disparate as Manolo's and Blunnies.

Piper

I think that 'ironic' works better than sarcastic in the world of Cohen.

"Dock on the Bay" is probably a reference to Otis Redding's "sittin on the dock of the bay"

" Sittin' in the mornin' sun
I'll be sittin' when the evenin' come
Watching the ships roll in
And then I watch 'em roll away again, yeah

I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time

I left my home in Georgia
Headed for the 'Frisco bay
'Cause I've had nothing to live for
And look like nothin's gonna come my way

So I'm just gonna sit on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time

Look like nothing's gonna change
Everything still remains the same
I can't do what ten people tell me to do
So I guess I'll remain the same, yes

Sittin' here resting my bones
And this loneliness won't leave me alone
It's two thousand miles I roamed
Just to make this dock my home

Now, I'm just gonna sit at the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Oooo-wee, sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time

(whistle) "

which, to me, is a song about ennui.

"heart of Chevrolet" - America's past dominance of car industry, production line.

"sermon on the mount" - so many Americans love to quote Jesus, but don't actually act on his words; conundrum.

This is just my interpretation - CJ and others may well see it differently - such is the power of the poet.

when a woman said, "Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow."

And he answered:

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Is not the cup that hold your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.

Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."

But I say unto you, they are inseparable.

Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.

Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy.

Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.

When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy or your sorrow rise or fall.

Khalil Gibran

Oh dear.

Khalil Gibran.

Highly appropriate, of course, since his work output (it is unrealistic to call it poetry) is the literary equivalent of the cheap suit that started this thread.

Cheap emotions held together by cheap verbal stitching. It only fits in the places where it touches.

When you hold it up to the light, it is easy to see the slipshod workmanship, the pinstripes not quite aligned on the shoulder, the sleeve buttons lacking their corresponding buttonholes.

Tacky.

But apposite.

Dear Pericles,

"I was dancing with my darlin' to the Tennessee Waltz
When an old friend I happened to see
Introduced him to my loved one and while they were dancin'
My friend stole my sweetheart from me..."

He wasn't wearing a cheap suit.

Pericles

Your comment on ASymeonakis' poem and the accompanying slur was uncalled for.

I guess it was.

>>Pericles Your comment on ASymeonakis' poem and the accompanying slur was uncalled for.<<

But there's something about fake, exploitative emotion-mongering that makes my flesh crawl. Reminds me of the worst aspects of the 60's hippie generation, where preying upon the emotional vulnerabilities of others became an international pastime.

Recently I read T C Boyle's "Drop City", that brought it all back.

So I apologize if it has caused offence. But it is, after all, only an opinion.

“Pericles

Your comment on ASymeonakis' poem and the accompanying slur was uncalled for.”

Watch out Pericles, you are being admonished by the committee for public safety (sorry Robespierre) and thought police (self appointed).


The next thing you know you will be given your “P” plates (branded a psychopath)

and whined about along every corridor of OLO


but if we are doing poetry:


There was a young girl from Thrace

Whose corset just would not lace

Her mother said “Nelly,

There is more in your belly”

Than ever went in through your face.


The alternative was about a young man from Kent but I think that would be pushing the “limits” too far…

You're a real class act, Col.

To paraphrase Obama - you can dress a pig in an expensive suit, but it's still a pig.

Pericles

"But there's something about fake, exploitative emotion-mongering that makes my flesh crawl. Reminds me of the worst aspects of the 60's hippie generation, where preying upon the emotional vulnerabilities of others became an international pastime."

I understand, but English is not Antonius' first language, but thank you for your rethink. I know where you are coming from - I had my own unprovoked attack on Foxy recently.

And I do get your feelings regarding hippy mawkishness - "The Young Ones" really got it right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efchnri_INk

CJ

:-)

To Fractelle and Pericles (that was a close one eh?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeISAc9j0WE&feature=PlayList&p=792E768C0E562F82&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=12

“I had my own unprovoked attack on Foxy recently.”

Let it go you gumboot wearing champagne sipping carrier of guilt cause from what I saw she already did and you're dragging the chain.[smile]

Col, You're poetry; I'm a little shocked, and thoroughly delighted.

CJ Moron “You're a real class act, Col.”

And we all know you of old,

Now Rover, no more chasing cars, it only gets you excited.

TPP “Let it go you gumboot wearing champagne sipping carrier of guilt cause from what I saw she already did and you're dragging the chain.[smile]”

Ih I love it.. especially the “guilt cause” and

Actually, somehow gumboots seem the appropriate attire when one is engaged in “chain dragging”

"Col, You're poetry; I'm a little shocked, and thoroughly delighted."

HA HA.. one of many… but that one was of the “OLO publishable” end of the scale.

There was a young plumber from Leigh
Who was plumbing a maid by the sea
Said the maid, "Cease your plumbing,
I think someone's coming"
Said the plumber (still plumbing), "It's me"

or that other old fave

A nudist resort in Benares
Let a midget in, all unawares
How the members did weep
For he just couldn't keep
His nose out of private affairs

Piper

That was too funny. Cheers.

About Foxy, not 'still dragging chain', just enjoying rubbing it in that I have no regrets over anything I dish out to Anti, Col, Houllie et al - they should be grateful I actually edit out a lot of what I'd really like to say.

Sorry, Ladies and gendlemen I will interrupt your discussion for a moment!
I am coming from the other side of the river.
PLEASE SIGN THE PETITIONS OF Amnesty International USA
to release innocent prisoners who fight for democracy and justice, who fight for peace and freedom, who fight for our right to dream and hope, who FIGHT FOR A BETTER FUTURE, FOR A BETTER WORLD!
Prison visit time!
Sophia with her two children Antonios and Jel are waiting out from the high security Prison.
"Antonios do not tell anything your father that the children in your school call you betrair and kick you!"
The doors opened! back of the bars Promitheus is waiting his family,Only five minutes per six months!
Jel run to her father. the guard pushed her back to her mother.
Sophia touched the fingers from her husband. "You have fever, you are sick!"
"NO! I am OK" replied her husband as he tried to cover his health problems.
"How is your school Antonios?",
"Very good dad!" Antonios learned from early to hide the truth!
The guard is coming the visit time finished!
"Do not worry my love the God is great" said the atheist Promitheus.
"Who is the God?" Asked little Jel.
Ask your unkle CJ Morgan to explain you, replied her mother
Promitheus and Sophia returned back to their live death, to their dead life!
The Pied Piper, Fractelle do not worry you will never be in Sophia's position. Avoid Muslims, refugees and migrants but over all avoid crusaders!
The antiterroprist law is here, and it is a "magic" law! The best guard for the Australian establishment!
In England the antiterrorist law used to block the assets of Iceland's
banks! and we have no bill of rights, not European Human Rights Commission!
Please sign the petition to release the pro-democracy leader Daw Aung San Suu Kyi's
http://bit.ly/16gzG9
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Dear Antonius

You will be pleased to hear I am already a member of Amnesty International and have already signed the petition.

Regards

Dear Antonios,

I've sent an email to the Chair of the Association of
South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), of which Burma is a
member, as well as a personal message of support
to Aung San Suu Kyi,
which will be delivered to the Thai Embassy in Canberra.

If anyone else wants to take action they can do so at this
website:

http://www.amnesty.org.au/action/action/21520/

I've been involved with Amnesty International Australia,
for quite a few years.

Fraccy,

'just enjoying rubbing it in that I have no regrets over anything I dish out to Anti, Col, Houllie et al '

Except when you get it back in spades. Then you play the victim and attribute it to being female!

CJ,

I must say you've been in great form recently with that bit about antiseptic, the one hand, then nicely followed up by the climax jibe. Just a nod of respect. Actually he walked into the one handed typist, but the climax was pretty funny.

All this poetry is reminding me of Rik the People's Poet.

Fractelle:“… they should be grateful I actually edit out a lot of what I'd really like to say.”

Oh well see, I always read females as if they are sugar and spice. No, I have no idea why I’m such a sexist. What does “et al” mean? Hey while I have you and asking questions – what does “(sic)” mean?

I so do that edit thing - bring it down a notch or two and replace what I first wrote with real words. But I will wager that gratitude probably isn’t quite what they feel.

I am feeling a bit left out, I don’t know a single poem, not even a rude one. And now I know Col could have even more up his immaculate sleeve, I’m scared. I also dread what Anti could come back with in a limerick competition. But what the hell, and please, I know my cadence is a bit shaky.[smile]

There once was a mother and wife
Trying to learn how to handle some strife
She found OLO
And went with the flow
Now she’s discovered some more about life

Some users are kind and insightful
Some others ascribe to the spiteful
Debate is immense
It has to make sense
Or the backlash is hardly delightful

One topic found often is common
Problems with men and with women
Now Opinions can change
But what I found strange
Is we need one of each to create them

I have been questioning here for awhile
My thank you for lessons with style
And so I have found
From words without sound
Without you, less reason to smile

PS, Love Riks work.

Dear Piper,

This one's for you:

"Along came a poster named Jewely
A Piper, who tamed the unruly
It's the style she possessed
Couldn't help but impress
Even posters like Col Rouge and Houllie!"

Big hug to you!

Foxy, Fractelle
Generaly I prefer USA organizations, including Amnesty International because they have very good websites, easy to search and find what I want

Houellebecq:"he walked into the one handed typist, but the climax was pretty funny."

Always pleased to toss 'em up, but they so rarely get hit for six...

Jewels, "et al" means "and others" as in a book written by multiple authors which is referred to by the lead author's name. It's sort of like "etcetera" but for people rather than things. "sic" means "as it was written" and is usually placed after a misspelling or misusage when quoting it so that it is understood the person quoting it didn't misquote.

Hey Anti (sic), thank you for that. Was that correct usage?
And so if I was making a list of users I could go sort of Graham, Foxy, Col et al?

Foxy cheers, loved it and put me in a much better mood for this morning. I need to go get all frantic and do some housework, find a valium and get ready for a meeting. Find some new fascinating project to shut all small children up for about an hour. 8 years in NZ and not a single manager found the need to come see me, if angry they would ring me and tell me to pull my head in. Here we have to have “meetings” where minutes are taken and staff arrives in multiples to bleat at me tag team.

This one will start with them announcing how serious they are and professional and pointing out that I don’t know anything. I don’t think my DoCS support person is told about these meetings.

And in line with the thread, need shower and some nice clothes that look sensible but still what a mummy would wear. Little bit of makeup. And all the kids, they need to look clean and tidy.

The house spotless and safe but not like I object to having fun, not sterile, organized but flexible.

It's all such a crock.[smile]

TPP:"Was that correct usage?"

Not quite. Me quoting the sock-puppet saying "TWO CHILDREN DIED"(sic) indictes the way she said it was in caps, as well as the words she used.

Your usage of et al is spot on.

Dear Piper,

I'm glad that I brightened your morning.
I know what you mean about Meetings...
Your sense of humour will see you through.
(Just watch your body language).

Good Luck.

Dear Piper

Arrived too late except to say I wish you all the luck and plus some. Dealing with bureaucrats - vomit inducing. Loathe meetings, they are never about discovering new ideas, but are all about establishing an agenda already decided upon by head bureaucrat.

However, from what I have learned about you, Piper, you are quick, smart and sassy (although meetings can't deal with too much 'sass') and I am sure you will be fine. There are not enough decent foster carers and the bureaucratic bozos know it.

Most excellent original rhymes Foxy and Piper.

Cheers

Fractelle
"They (beaurocrats) are all about establishing an agenda already decided upon by head bureaucrat"
Beaurocrats do not have heart and thay are lazy to use their brain. They are yesmen/women and sometimes very dangerous because the law gives then plenty power.
The Pied Piper is an honest, fair brave person who writes on the forum promoting her ideas, nice ideas. She is not a yes woman, she is exactly what the beaurocracy and cheap people do not like. I am afraid soon or later the beaurocrats will try to press her, to close her mouth and they have many ways to do it.
Fractelle, you are a worrior for human rights, I am too even I do not seem, CAN WE DO SOMETHING TO SUPPORT The Pied Piper AND HOW?
For me if The Pied Piper have a problem it will have to do with her ideas and her posts on the forum, covered by stupid beaurocratic rules.

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Dear Fractelle,

Thanks!

I'm working on a limerick for Houllie but I don't
know if I'll be game to post it :)

yet.

I may post something else instead.

Dear Pericles - this one's for you
(in memory of M. Roederer):

"I blow my pipes, the glad birds sing,
The fat young nymphs about me spring,
The sweaty centaur leaps the trees
And bites his dryad's splendid knees;
The sky, the water, and the earth
Repeat aloud our noisy mirth ...
Anon, tight-bellied bacchanals,
With ivy from the vineyard walls,
Lead out and crown with shining glass
The wine's red baby on the grass.

I blow my pipes, the glad birds sing,
The fat young nymphs about me spring,
I am the Lord,
I am the Lord,
I am the Lord of everything!"
- - - Hugh McCrae.

Hey Fractelle, Next meeting I need a microphone in my ear and you all hooked up at the other end handing me replies.

Gawd could you imagine; Anti in my ear instructing me to tell them to go sniff crotch somewhere else, you telling him to shut up, Col handing me a string of taxpayer abuse while Examinator uses words and phrases I’d have no hope of repeating without stuttering. Houel or Seeker would make a joke and I’d get the giggles.

Hey Anti – if you quote something someone said out loud, not written, would “(sic)” also follow? I should be giving you a tutoring fee. How come you know? Or should I be asking why don’t I know or how I missed this kind of stuff.

C’mon Foxy, just post it. Is it rude? Hope so.[grin]