The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Geophysics and Earthquakes- Mathmatics and things that make you go Hmmm

Geophysics and Earthquakes- Mathmatics and things that make you go Hmmm

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. All
Introduction:
No natural force is more destructive than earthquakes. The energy released by a magnitude 6.0 earthquake lasting 45 seconds, is several thousand times greater than a nuclear bomb. Furthermore, according to the USGS (united states geological survey), earthquake forecasting remains little more than an elusive goal.

Sadly, many earthquakes strike locations where the population and government institutions have little or no capability to deal with the aftermath. Places like southern Iran and rural China.

If you ask a geologist what causes an earthquake, he/she will tell you it's caused by slippage or abrupt movement between two plates of rock at a location called a fault zone.

They will go on to explain there is a slow but constant differential motion between the plates, and over time this results in deformation and the buildup of stress between the plates. When this stress exceeds the frictional resistance of the fault zone, slippage occurs causing an earthquake.

There are several problems with the standard model of earthquakes. First, not all earthquakes are associated with fault zones. Second, and even more troubling, the origin points for many earthquakes are greater than 100km below the surface of the earth.

At this depth, the rock is either plastic or fully liquefied and therefore no longer able to support the frictional slippage mechanism postulated by geologists as the primary cause of earthquakes.

Another poorly explained phenomena is the tendency of earthquakes to cluster over a brief period of time, lasting from hours to days and sometimes even weeks. The mechanical slippage paradigm would seem to predict just the opposite should take place, since the initial earthquake lowered the deformation stresses in the plates, making further slippage less likely.

While the standard model of earthquakes is appealing in it's simplicity, it is also clearly insufficient to explain many of the observed phenomena.
Posted by All-, Friday, 24 July 2009 1:33:21 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Ok , hang in there now;
Advanced physics: It was much more difficult to break it down ; so here we go ;

Chemical phase change:
When two or more substances are involved in a chemical reaction, the resulting compound will occupy a different volume than that of the original substances.

In other words, the total volume will shrink or expand as a result of chemical reaction. Furthermore, pressure and/or temperature can cause the internal molecular arrangement of a compound to undergo an abrupt shift or phase change, thereby causing a change in volume of the compound. In many cases, the reaction or rearrangement is very swift, requiring mere fractions of a second to complete.

1.1.3
Piezoelectric & electrostriction effects:
Under the influence of mechanical stress, dielectric materials exhibit a phenomena known as the piezoelectric effect. Simply stated, an electric field or potential is generated within the material due to physical deformation created by the applied mechanical stress.

While generally considered to be an exclusive property of crystalline dielectrics, the phenomena is also observed in both amorphous solids and liquids. Any material that exhibits piezoelectric activity, will also exhibit electrostriction phenomena. This is the inverse of the piezoelectric effect, whereby the material changes shape and/or volume under the influence of an externally applied electric field.

1.1.4
Acoustic wave guides:
Most people associate acoustic (or sonic) waves with air, however these waves also travel through liquids and solids.

Different materials conduct acoustic waves at different propagation velocities. In general, propagation velocities in liquids are greater than in gases, and propagation velocities in solids are greater than in liquids, however each unique material has a specific propagation velocity, that is also dependent on environmental variables such as temperature and pressure.

Whenever an acoustic wave undergoes an abrupt change in propagation velocity, the wave is reflected to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the degree of propagation velocity shift.

A large change in propagation velocity will result in nearly total reflection, while a small change in propagation velocity will result in a partial reflection of the acoustic wave.
Posted by All-, Saturday, 25 July 2009 11:46:49 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Continued:

Changes in acoustic wave propagation velocity are caused by transitions between differing materials, or because of a change in the environmental conditions within a single material.

A related phenomena known as a surface acoustic wave, results from the entrapment of the wave energy by an extreme shift in propagation velocity between differing materials.

In effect the boundary between very dissimilar materials acts as a wave guide, thereby channeling the acoustic wave energy along the surface of the boundary. Both cathedral whisper galleries, and pressure zone microphones (also known as boundary microphones) make use of the effect.

The fault zone between two plates (1.1.1) is also an excellent acoustic wave guide.

1.1.5
Acoustic energy transformation:
The energy contained in an acoustic wave is the product of both displacement (length of movement) and pressure (force per unit area). This relationship is shown in Equation 1.

[Eq. 1] E/a= l F/a= lP

Where:
E = Energy (in Joules).
a = Area (meters squared).
l = Length of displacement (in meters).
F = Force (in Newtons).
P = Pressure in Pascals (Newtons per meter squared).

Eq. 1 Implies that a high pressure small displacement acoustic wave contains the same energy as a low pressure large displacement wave.

Consider an acoustic wave with a 1 millimeter displacement, generated over a 1 meter square area, 5 kilometers below the surface of earth. The pressure at this depth will be over 100 million Pascals, and therefore this small (1 millimeter) displacement represents an enormous quantity of energy.

Next consider what happens as this acoustic wave travels upward to the surface of the planet. At the surface, atmospheric pressure is approximately 100,000 Pascals.

Conservation requires the energy contained in the wave to be constant. Therefore as the pressure drops, the displacement must increase. If the wave remained focused, and the pressure at a depth of 5 kilometers was exactly 100 million Pascals, the displacement at the planet surface would be 1 kilometer!

The acoustic wave energy would have to be spread over a surface area of 1 square kilometer to retain a 1 millimeter displacement
Posted by All-, Saturday, 25 July 2009 3:21:28 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As this example clearly demonstrates, small displacements within the earth will create very large movements at the surface of the planet.

1.2.1
The alternant model:
Suppose a one cubic kilometer volume of mineral such as perovskite undergoes an abrupt chemical phase change, caused by a small alteration in pressure and/or temperature, thereby creating a change in volume of just 0.0001%.

A volumetric change of 0.0001% in one cubic kilometer represents a change of 1,000 cubic meters, or approximately 0.17 millimeters of displacement on all sides of the cubic kilometer volume. Furthermore, suppose this reaction takes place at a depth of just 10 kilometers.
The pressure at any depth can be calculated by:

[Eq. 2] P= g M/V d

Where:
P = Pressure (in Pascals).
g = Acceleration of gravity (in meters per second squared).
M = Mass (in kilograms).
V = Volume of mass (in cubic meters).
d = Depth (in meters).

Using granite, the mass is 2691 kilograms per cubic meter, and earth standard gravity at 9.8 meters per second2, gives a value of 2.637 x 107 Pascals. A displacement of 0.17 millimeters at this pressure, over a surface area of just 1 square meter represents an energy (1.1.5 Eq. 1) of 4.48 x 103 Joules per meter2, and when multiplied by the surface area of our 1 cubic kilometer of perovskite mineral (6 million meters2) equals a staggering 2.69 x 1010 Joules, or over two hundred billion Joules of energy! Spread this energy over one hundred square kilometers of planetary surface, and you still have 2,690 Joules of energy per square meter. More than enough energy to transform a home into a smoking pile rubbl
Posted by All-, Saturday, 25 July 2009 3:35:24 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The real worry is that NZ just moved 30 cm closer to Australia in the last quake.Does that that mean that they get a discount on air fares as they come to collect the Aussie dole? Not only are the Kiwis cutting our vowels short,ie fush and chups, they are trying our patience.

Do we really need this cultural invasion to be aided and abetted by the the destructive forces of mother nature? We need an early warning system to stem the flow of this Kiwi invasion.Perhaps the baa of a sheep,or the acrid stench of a sulphurus spring.

The Indians really annoy us beyond any the constraints of fair play with their tele-marking banter.Just imagine a Kiwi selling you something you don't want or need? The rage would be insatiable,especially if they beat us at rugby!
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 25 July 2009 6:13:59 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
LOL Arjay!
Posted by CJ Morgan, Saturday, 25 July 2009 6:24:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I think at this very moment Arjay, every ship in the North and southern hemisphere are gathering on the west coast of Australia, and in some joint effort – Tug Australia further west to increase the gap from NZ, ha
PETA, people eat tasty Animals (Yum) , and our Kiwi cousins would be the biggest advocaats against fly strike in Sheep : One would think.
They may be able to tow us further west and out of Aircraft range , ha .
And the next seizmic event may take care of the telle - marketing threat.
Posted by All-, Saturday, 25 July 2009 6:42:49 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If anyone is interested in reading the original of this, it may be found at

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/esp_ciencia_tsunami18.htm

It was taken from the work of one Steven J Smith

http://www.geocities.com/electrogravitics/

Among the other works of this esteemed gentleman, you will find

"NSA - Citadel of Evil"

http://www.geocities.com/electrogravitics/nsa1.html

Please don't bother to cut-and-paste any of this one, All-

"The NSA is involved in some of the most heinous crimes and vicious acts of barbarism ever perpetrated on humanity. Even the monstrous autocracies committed by WWII Nazi war criminals pale in comparison to the crimes of the NSA."

It is all rather tedious.

Especially the spelling of "monstrous autocracies", which is in itself a crime against humanity.
Posted by Pericles, Sunday, 26 July 2009 9:28:13 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Pericles ,this is all in the realm of conspiracy theory and conjecture.Where's the proof? It is more likely that the US Fed has an in-ordinate control of Obama and Congress than the NSA be proven guilty of such atrocities.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 26 July 2009 10:11:26 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Do not be too sceptical of things that go bang in the night gentlemen.

During the nineties, I was close to the vicinity of a region where an unprecedented earthquake occurred. At that time it was reported that the Japanese cult AUM had purchased Banjawarn sheep station in a remote part of West Australia.

Harry Mason B.Sc., M.Sc.,(Geologist-Geophysicist) has written much on this phenomena:

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:_ZtZ20X9JZIJ:www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla/esp_tesla_8.htm+harry+mason+geologist+sarin+nerve+gas+banjawarn+earthquake&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

And it’s also the world’s worst kept secret that man can manipulate the weather. Rosalie Bertell holds a doctorate in biometry (the statistical analysis of biological observations and phenomena), is an environmental epidemiologist and a world-renowned researcher in the field of mathematics and nuclear science and as far back as the 90s, advised that the “US military scientists ... are working on weather systems as a potential weapon” within their HAARP project:

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:oaA0vHzjowUJ:www.niburu.nl/viewinstelling.php%3Fid%3D14+HAARP+WEATHER+ROSALIE+BERTELL&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

Should I now don my hard hat in anticipation of the usual howls of mirth from OLO’s denialists?
Posted by Protagoras, Sunday, 26 July 2009 11:48:51 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Well done Pericles, But some of his other work may indeed be tedious, and eccentric, that is not the work presented here. And edited .
Your point is ?
I am not certain how German socialist workers party , Communism- Socialism etc enters this topic. But Einstein ; has a 20 year record of CIA interest as a collaborator , not a NAZI , but close enough.
I draw your attention to a certain publication in the late 18th century : Available here;

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4032

This author uses Atlantis as his launch pad, but the science and references to explain his Ideas are impeccable, and a valuable resource ; even if his expressed intent is questionable;
But you already know that Pericles , So again , I ask only of you , what you may have to say on the topic that might be of some value for a change.
Is there something you like to add to the topic ; maybe the Kobe Earthquake , Yellow Stone National Park , N Z , Even Gundagai ,; - they had an earthquake 8 months ago , be it 4 on the richter scale ;
Please.
Posted by All-, Sunday, 26 July 2009 11:57:09 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
All-, I was merely (to begin with) pointing out that it is courteous to attribute the work of other people when reprinting it.

Otherwise, you might be accused of passing it off as your own.

Then I realised that you are actually intending to present this idiot's work in its totality, leading to the suggestion that earthquakes are being produced artificially, as a form of weaponry, by the CIA.

"Was the massive earthquake in southern Iran, near the city of Bam a natural occurrence, or was it an example of the Bush Doctrine in action?"

This is from a later paragraph in the same document. Presumably, this was going to be your next snippet. Otherwise, what would be the point?

Which is why I noted, for everyone else's benefit, the somewhat paranoid nature of the source.

The man is a fantasist, nothing more. And you are doing no-one a service by regurgitating his nonsense here.

>>So again , I ask only of you , what you may have to say on the topic that might be of some value for a change.<<

It is valuable, I suggest, to understand that the source of this material is not reputable science, but a paranoid delusionist who believes that the CIA is behind - not just everything evil, but natural phenomena too.
Posted by Pericles, Sunday, 26 July 2009 2:40:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The interaction between the post-perovskite phase change and a thermo-chemical boundary layer near the core-mantle boundary
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V61-4GWC13T-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2eb505b1dc1b2b2635cf9a0e9e8c2539

Ciatations
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-ref_query?bibcode=2005E%26PSL.238..204N&amp;refs=CITATIONS&amp;db_key=AST
No , George Bush is not mentioned anywhere here
Full Record Information
http://adsabs.harvard.edu//abs/2005E%26PSL.238..204N
Piezoelectric & electrostriction effects
http://jjap.ipap.jp/link?JJAP/45/813/
George Bush not mentioned anywhere here again,
The Piezodielectric Effect and Electrostriction in Anisotropic or Isotropic
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v51/i12/p1096_1
Bugger , George Bush is not mentioned again.
Acoustic wave guides
http://qjmam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/search?qbe=qjmamj;53/3/429&journalcode=qjmamj&minscore=5000

Do you know something , George Bush is not mentioned in any publication.
Now can we go back to the original topic.
You could have done that.
Posted by All-, Sunday, 26 July 2009 4:14:56 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
<< Now can we go back to the original topic. >>

Hmmm?
Posted by Q&A, Sunday, 26 July 2009 4:58:58 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
You are a bit of a worry, All-.

First of all, you re-publish, verbatim, a considerable amount of a tract on earthquake activity that you dredged up from a conspiracy site.

Now you want us to believe it was all in the interests of science?

Come on, none of us came down in the last shower of rain.

You can add as many random scientific references as you like. you still cannot get away from the fact that:

- you did not properly attribute the extract in an way, or even hint that your posts were simply transcriptions of the work of another

- the person whose work you stole is a notorious conspiracy-addict, with a penchant for blaming the ills of the world on US Security agencies

- the site from which you chose to lift your information went on to state the following:

"In the post 9-11 environment, American foreign policy has adopted a new strategy known as the "Bush Doctrine". This strategy calls for pre-emptive strikes against any nation, group or individual that threatens American national security interests. As I write this document (in early December 2004), several apparently coincidental events weigh heavy in my mind. Was the massive earthquake in southern Iran, near the city of Bam a natural occurrence, or was it an example of the Bush Doctrine in action?

"Recently the American government has expressed it's displeasure with the Japanese and Chinese governments over their continued technological and financial involvement with Iran. Both Japan and China have also experienced a sudden rash of earthquake activity.

"Coincidence or something more sinister? Perhaps you should ask George W. Bush."

And now you come over all innocent... like - who, me?

>>Do you know something , George Bush is not mentioned in any publication. Now can we go back to the original topic.<<

Question: what exactly is the original topic?

Is it the same one espoused by the writer whose work you lifted?

Or something different.

Do tell.
Posted by Pericles, Sunday, 26 July 2009 5:10:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Well for a start Pericles, The only thing lifted is the notion that you are reasonably intelligent ; for a start ; and it is not about George Bush doctrine at all;

you come unstuck there, primarily because three quarters of the commentary on OLO would also have included John Howard and Tony Blair. So it is not directed at them. Is it?

So continuing to recite the obvious folly is puerile ridicules and absurd; edit out the Politic garbage and we are left with a very interesting subject, until you came along at least.

It would be quite clear that you are not interested in the underlying content of the subject matter what so ever Pericles , but at least some may have a chance to learn a bit more about it , and have some interest in the subject .

How many Hyperlinks in this place do you use when they are posted Pericles ; Exactly ; if any , not many .
And how many comments can we make Pericles ?
You buggered up the final instalment , so you can be quite proud of yourself once more . I guess as usual , you just could not help your self ; At least try.

Isotropic transformation optics:
approximate acoustic and quantum cloaking :
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0806/0806.0085v2.pdf

It is no longer desirable to argue with an Idiot Pericles
Posted by All-, Sunday, 26 July 2009 6:58:41 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Jeez, All-

>>You buggered up the final instalment , so you can be quite proud of yourself once more.<<

That's all you have to say for yourself, is it?

Nothing about the deception that you tried to pull, pretending someone else's work was your own?

Apart from the pretentious headline, and a condescending "Ok , hang in there now...", they were all someone else's words.

Complete with geological flummery and abstruse mathematics that - I am absolutely sure - you did not, and do not, understand.

And now you confirm that you were intending to round it off with someone else's conspiracy theory.

Sad.

And it was that conspiracy theory that mentioned the Bush doctrine, not me. I'm not even sure I know what it is. Or was.

>>It would be quite clear that you are not interested in the underlying content of the subject matter what so ever Pericles , but at least some may have a chance to learn a bit more about it , and have some interest in the subject<<

I'm sure that my comments would not have deterred the audience you are targetting, All-

>>It is no longer desirable to argue with an Idiot Pericles<<

Who is arguing?

Not you - you have admitted that you freely cut-and-pasted the work of an online conspiracy theorist.

And not me either. Springing someone who is a blatant plagiarist is not open to argument.

Have a great day.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 27 July 2009 2:03:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I'm still wondering what the point of All-'s thread topic is.

It wasn't made clear in the first, second or third post.
In fact ... it still hasn't been made, unless of course Pericles is on to something :)

And I am even more dumbfounded why the editor (GrahamY) let it through in the first place.
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 27 July 2009 2:19:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
You can find the "original" of All-'s contribution here, Q&A

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/esp_ciencia_tsunami18.htm

He was about to "get to the point" - that the CIA or NSA or whatever are using earthquakes as weaponry against regimes they disapprove of - when I pointed out his blatant plagiarism.

Conspirus interruptus, I guess.

What amuses me more, actually, is his blustering defence, which is that I am some kind of spoilsport for exposing him.

But I'd be unhappy if Graham took it upon himself to check everything before it appears in this little playground. One of the reasons for it to be separated from the rest is to allow for a little more... creativity in the choice of subject matter.

In fact, I hope this remains in the archives for many a long year, so that All- can show his grandchildren how prescient he was, and how the rest of the world ignored his warnings of impending global catastrophe, brought on by the rogues of the US Secret Service..
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 27 July 2009 2:42:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Wow Pericles ... dastardly deeds of democratic demagogues!

I'm surprised AGW hasn't made it to Stephen J Smith's (or All-'s) list of conspiracy theories ;)
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 27 July 2009 3:38:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Pericles
What I want to know is how come you knew the references... a dark side Hmmmmm? ;-)

I was about to jump in and challenge the sciences on several grounds but thanks you save me the time and effort...
Posted by examinator, Monday, 27 July 2009 6:42:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
That's it, now I know y'all- is playin' with my mind!
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 27 July 2009 7:06:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Please fire away examiner; don’t be too worried about I Q A, once he has graduated from the Little Golden book series that should see him on his way to the top of the class.
Google might help.
I am not sure how he will cope with the Mickey Mouse and Donald duck – Pluto the Dog conspiracy note though.

But that may be a bit advanced at the moment .
I will leave that one alone IQA – the bit about playing with your mind.

And don’t be intimidated by Super Pericles, he donned his SP t Shirt and his flying goggles whilst standing in his Boxer shorts – Hands on Hips – On a Soap box belching away – you only have to mention a subject matter and he becomes confused – poor fellow , Just the Bureaucratic programming in him one must assume ; Won’t Hear – See or Listen; but He is harmless enough, Just don’t make a typo, or you will never hear the end of it.
Posted by All-, Monday, 27 July 2009 9:20:18 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
What, still no apology for ripping off someone else's work, All-?

For shame.

And I wouldn't spend too much time trying to insult others right now, if I were you.

Your credibility is shot.

Leave it for a month or two. People forget.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 27 July 2009 11:08:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Ommm
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 27 July 2009 11:44:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy