There has been a lot of discussion about population growth on OLO. The intention of this thread is not to rehash that stuff; it is to discuss why governments don’t take on the issue.

To borrow Andrew’s McNamara’s words; I would like to spend some time looking at the vexed issue of why politicians encourage population growth when the environment can’t stand it, the economy doesn’t need it and the people don’t want it.

Andrew McNamara is a rare ex-politician. He shares my deep concern about population growth. He was Queensland Minister for Sustainability, Climate Change and Innovation up until the last election earlier this year.

Four days ago, he gave a speech to the Queensland Conservation Council.
Andrew McNamara Speech July 09.pdf

Some quotes;

‘Australia’s annual population growth in 2008 stood at a developed world high of 1.7%. Compare that with .9% in the USA, .6% in France and .3% in the UK. The world average is now 1.6%. India’s is 1.6%. Indonesia’s is 1.2%. Australia’s population at this rate of growth will pass 100 million by 2100. We will exceed 42 million people in 2050. That is another 2 Sydneys and 2 more Melbournes to feed and water, to power and manage the waste from, in just over 40 years. How can we not be talking about this?’

‘It is nothing short of scandalous that Australia’s sustainable population is not the starting point in almost every policy debate.’

‘In my view, a failure to recognize and confront the danger of unrestrained population growth now transcends every other problem that confronts us.’

So why is our Ruddiculous government not only turning a blind eye to the enormous problems associated with continuous population growth, but is actually facilitating this growth as much as it can? Why isn’t there enormous community outrage about this?

You seem to be placing an unrealistic limitation on the discussion, Ludwig, through two key assumptions.

The first is that everyone already agrees with you.

>>The intention of this thread is not to rehash that stuff; it is to discuss why governments don’t take on the issue.<<

While it is very simple - and not inappropriate - to simply "do the math", and predict an exhaustion of the earth's resources in x years time, what is inevitably ignored is that we in Australia represent around a third of one percent of the world's population.

If we do not maintain a vigorous and growing population, that takes advantage of the most considerable natural resources at our disposal, it is just possible that someone else will.

So any discussion on Australia's population should not be subsumed into some general nightmare scenario, but specifically describe the pros and cons of any individual strategy.

The second assumption is that population should be a significant government concern, even "the starting point in almost every policy debate."

Any "population policy" would involve the grossest infringement of human rights our country has ever seen. Check out the impact of such government action on the ordinary people of China and India, before getting too gung-ho about such arguments.

And finally:

"Australia’s population at this rate of growth will pass 100 million by 2100. We will exceed 42 million people in 2050.<<

Using the same calculation, in 2100 the population of India will be 4.5 billion, and Indonesia's over 700 million. Shouldn't that come into the equation somewhere?

We do not live in a vacuum.

Even in Queensland.

its sad that we are the problem...yet govts solution to the problem is bring in more workers willing to work for pennies...it is noticable that the ideal worker works 67 years then quietly dies at 68..after payong compuslory super...so the fat cats can get all their govt pensions[that are directly the problem of why states are going broke]

its time we had our twitter colour revolutions in house...what we need is the cia/mossad teaching us to do thgis twitter colour rebellion stuff[instead of them iranians]that are constantly in the news

its time we had a federal yellow striped tweet-solution..to head off the treason of the opposition leader,..now going to vote for the new carbon tax

or the burgandy qld..tweet-solution to the broken promises of the privatisation..wages freezing and the hospital's..on top of selliung off warter gas transport and now shools...it didnt mention before getting re elect-ed

or the grey tweet-solution in nsw for the treasons of the nsw govt re transport isues and selling indulgences to big mining intrests

yes the problem is us for lettin big G..govt lie to us big time..but we have the twitter solution..and while were at it we could habve the twitter evolution..

[in black and white as well as colour vision for the media not revealing the truth...and distortion of real news with thst which has replaced the news..[sport,cop and cooking shows...long live the twit-wit revolution...

besides were all going to die soon from some flue or other...so dont sweat about population growth..the eugenisists will soon fix that...you dont realise those phones gave you cancer..[lets just blame that on the media...or govt..

.ok now to get the message edited down..for the sheep to digest the facts..on their twit wit twitter...viva la evolution

its just like us forgotten australians , the goverment does not to act on the abuse we victims suffered and still the goverment will not say sorry to us victims ,

the goverment does not like the truth being told about the wrongs that have happend to us victims , they even destroy our proof of what had happend to us victims ,

the problem is not us its the australian goverment who continue to cover up the forgotten australians ,

and want to sweep us victims under the carpet ,

its about time both goverments labour and liberal stop with all the coruption and cover ups that have occurred and still are occurring till this day

give justice to the forgotten australians

Dear Ludwig,
When love of money replaces God, commonsence disapears And man chooses to believe anything. A wacky soul is a sure sign of no respect for the truth and the ability to believe in the emperors new clothes. One man has chosen to waste the GNP of the USA not very sensible but I have not heard much about it on the news. Obviously something is very wrong with a vast number of people. It is called the works of the flesh and starts with self. As you say people are the problem and without a change of heart nothing changes.

Dear Ludwig,

Nobody can deny that the planet has a finite
amount of resources or that it can tolerate
only a limited amount of pollution. If world
population continues to grow rapidly, and if
pollution and resource depletion continues at
an increasing rate - where is human society
headed? The most optimistic answer to these
questions would be that, one way or another,
sweeping social changes await us.

You asked why is our government not doing anything
more about the problem of population control.

It's a common global problem. There are political,
religious, and other idealogical influences that
affect social attitudes concerning population
limitation. The Judeo-Christian injunction is
"to be fruitful and multiply." An old Arab proverb
declares that "to have many children is to be blessed
by Allah." And Islamic religion (in several countries)
is opposed to birth control. The Catholic Church
has always opposed the use of contraceptives.

To complicate things even further, some politicians
regard high birth rates as essential for their nations'
economic or political strength. Many Governments see
that "population growth is a natural phenomenon,"
whose problems can be solved by capitalism.

Perhaps if
governments were to set up policies that focus on a
sharing of resources (rather than exclusively on
economic development that may benefit only a minority)
it may be a promising way to reduce population growth.
In other words, if people were allowed to enjoy such
basics of life as food, shelter, clothing, health care,
education, (especially for women),
and a sense that things will be better in the
future, they may tend to voluntarily limit the size of
their families.

Foxy
Too true well put.
The problem with governments is the donkeys that vote them in.

Ludwig
I think your last two posts were to the wrong topic.

Pericles
Spot on but what can we do about it without applying enlightened self interest World wide as inferred by foxy and clearly delineated by me in other postings? In short we need a mind set change.

“You seem to be placing an unrealistic limitation on the discussion, Ludwig, through two key assumptions. The first is that everyone already agrees with you.”

No Pericles, I’m not assuming that everyone agrees with me. I know all too well that there are at least a few on OLO that don’t. But I want to step past that discussion. I want to concentrate entirely on why our government doesn’t deal with the population growth issue.

Is there anything wrong with that?

“The second assumption is that population should be a significant government concern, even ‘the starting point in almost every policy debate.’ “

Well, bloody oath. I certainly do hold that assumption.

“Any ‘population policy’ would involve the grossest infringement of human rights our country has ever seen.”

Whaaat??

“Check out the impact of such government action on the ordinary people of China and India, before getting too gung-ho about such arguments.”

We don’t need a one-child policy in Australia, or a birth-control policy of any sort. All we need is to scrap the baby bonus bribe and reduce immigration to about net zero. That’s it, in order to head straight towards a stable population….which of course should be the cornerstone of any population policy.

Andrew McNamara: "Australia’s population at this rate of growth will pass 100 million by 2100. We will exceed 42 million people in 2050”

Pericles: “Using the same calculation, in 2100 the population of India will be 4.5 billion, and Indonesia's over 700 million. Shouldn't that come into the equation somewhere?”

Yes it should certainly come into consideration. So what would you recommend Pericles. How much difference do you think an Australian population of 45 million would make compared to 700 Indonesians and 2100 million Indians if it came to the crunch of us having to vigorously defend our country? What sort of enormous improvements in technology, resource use efficiency and quality-of-life reduction would we have to endure to accommodate 45 million people? Wouldn’t it be an infinitely better idea to live within our means, maintain strong social coherence and develop a high-tech defence capability?

I consider that a doubling of the Australian population in 100 years would be a suitable maximum aim or policy setting to begin with.

This indicates that a population growth aim of 0.7% +or - 0.07 % per year is a reasonable and not excessive aim. This is the rate for a doubling of population in 100 years.

I also note that Australia has a current growth rate of 1.6% which is greater than my parameter. (This is population doubling in 43.75 years). I am unable to agree with the Business Council of Australia’s population policy aim of 1 to 1.5% as that rate is beyond social absorption.

For immigration to be used as a macroeconomic lever (which both the current and prior National Governments have done) is not an acceptable act as it only defers responsibility onto future generations. Some could almost call it treason.

In addition, on a Climate Change prism any population gains for Australia since 1990, the base date for Kyoto emissions reductions, increases the national carbon load. This is due to most immigrants increasing their carbon footprint in the Australian context (I=PAT Impact equals Population Affluence and Technology).

Ludwig,
I think we need to divide this discussion into two sections, one being in relation to world population and the other being our Aussie population.

Aussie population. I agree that we need to do away with the 'baby bonus' and reduce immigration to net zero. Then assesment as to where we go from here.

For far too long we have let the politicians get away with not having a population policy. Out of no where they simply state they will increase immigration without giving reasons or stating what population goal they are aiming at. Not good enough. Its a bit like me telling my agent to buy stock for my property without giving him a number. That is insane.

We have to insist that the parties put forward population policy so we can appraise it and question it. We have to know where we are going with at least preliminary goals. Then re-evalueate.

Pericles, you say
"Any "population policy" would involve the grossest infringement of human rights our country has ever seen. Check out the impact of such government action on the ordinary people of China and India, before getting too gung-ho about such arguments".

That is plainly a ridiculous statement. There is no need to further reduce the birth rate, it is now below replacement level. The problem is if we take in too many and that can be adjusted by immigration intake.

World population. Some governments are talking about ways of reducing birth rates, like Pakistan, see link
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1246346024897&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

Religions are the big obstacle in world birth control and that remains to be the largest hurdle to overcome.

You made that abundantly clear Ludwig.

>>I want to concentrate entirely on why our government doesn’t deal with the population growth issue.<<

But, as I pointed out, this excludes the most meaningful aspect of the argument. If it isn't a "problem", why should it be a government priority?

>>We don’t need a one-child policy in Australia, or a birth-control policy of any sort. All we need is to scrap the baby bonus bribe and reduce immigration to about net zero.<<

Scrapping the bribes - an action with which I totally agree, by the way, along with parental paid leave and all that fol-de-rol - will not have the slightest impact on birth rates.

After all, their introduction did not cause a baby boom of any significance, did it?

>>How much difference do you think an Australian population of 45 million would make compared to 700 Indonesians and 2100 million Indians if it came to the crunch of us having to vigorously defend our country?<<

The figures I mentioned were 700 million and 4.5 billion, and I put them in to illustrate how misleading simple extrapolations can be.

As Eric Morris of UCLA reminds us:

"The situation seemed dire. In 1894, the Times of London estimated that by 1950 every street in the city would be buried nine feet deep in horse manure. One New York prognosticator of the 1890s concluded that by 1930 the horse droppings would rise to Manhattan's third-story windows. A public health and sanitation crisis of almost unimaginable dimensions loomed.

And no possible solution could be devised. After all, the horse had been the dominant mode of transportation for thousands of years. Horses were absolutely essential for the functioning of the 19th century city - for personal transportation, freight haulage and even mechanical power. Without horses, cities would quite literally starve."

A perfectly reasonable extrapolation, from all the available data, made by intelligent human beings with real concerns about the fate of humankind.

Where did they go wrong?

re the issue of eugenics based on the lie of finite resources furphy...we have barely explored one quater of the earths resources...

there are oceans of mineral recources out there...then there is the issue of recycling that we have allready harvested...those old enough will recall how aluminium/rubber etc were accumulated during the war shortages

there is more oil etc still in the ground than what mankind has been able to find so far...ie we have not reached peak oil[and never will..oil can be grown from algie..[just like how it was made in the past]

as for foods there are people who deliberatly create shortages[to keep the price up[for egsample milk production per cow has doubled in the past 20 years...we have not even explored growing food in highrises...or high rise cattle lots...the food and resources shortage is a beat up by eugenisists who will allways be wanting to murder those theyt deem..infiriour types

im sick of people in thisd age of plenty saying were going to run out of xxx...there is more than enough of everything to go round...the water shortage is a beat up as well..

[we still have so much water we cccrap in it...you just name any shortage and the capitalists will flood the market with it next year...all you eugenisists wakeup is your own petty fears...

poor blooming you..you been on your darwinian eugenics crusades for 100;s of years now ...just wake up to yourselves and off your self first...

nice people seem easilly taken in by your fear-mongering..but those wanting the big final solution..cant be as nice as they like to pretend...as jesus said...by their works will ye know them...well by your words are you lot revealed and reviled

“I think we need to divide this discussion into two sections, one being in relation to world population and the other being our Aussie population.”

Yes Banjo, inasmuch as the solutions to global and Australian population growth are enormously different.

I want to concentrate on our national issue. I think that the global population issue is beyond humanity’s redress and is firmly in the lap of the gods. But In Australia, it is still remarkably easy to deal with.

“If it isn't a ‘problem’, why should it be a government priority?

Pericles I presume you mean; if it isn’t perceived as a problem by the general populace, then why should a government deal with it?

Because it is THE major issue threatening a healthy future. Governments are not just beholden to react to public concerns, they are beholden to be proactive for the common good as well.

“Scrapping the bribes - an action with which I totally agree, by the way, along with parental paid leave and all that fol-de-rol - will not have the slightest impact on birth rates.”

It would have a considerable impact. The baby bonus has led to an increased birthrate. Its abolition with perhaps some disincentives to have kids implemented in its place, would considerably lower the birthrate and make a significant difference in the length of time that it would take us to achieve a stable population…and considerably reduce the size of that population…once immigration is taken out of the picture.

“The figures I mentioned were 700 million and 4.5 billion, and I put them in to illustrate how misleading simple extrapolations can be.”

Yes I got the figures muddled. But my point remains. In the face of such enormous projected populations, or anything remotely near them, I can’t imagine that a difference in our population between say 23 million living sustainably and 45 million, projected from today’s growth rate, would make a hoot of difference, in the eyes of would-be invaders. This continent would still appear to be very empty. The same would apply even if we had 100 million.

It is difficult to stick to Ludgwig's main point about government failure to act without getting into all the previous debates about population sustainability - but I will try.

Governments fail to act on population sustainability for one main reason and that is they are still bound up by the usual economic obsession of growth. There is no lateral thinking about different systems or approaches to providing goods and services.

You only have to go back to the thread about the continuing expansion of cities like Melbourne where governments focus on 'growth' is limited to property development and if you focus on PD then you need more people to fill houses.

It is short sighted but inevitable when Australia follows the path set by the global obsession with growth economics.

I also think politician's are scared to advocate for more discussion about sustainability because it goes against big business interests and raises issues of racism. Then there are those with powerful religious self-interests who disingenuously use the sustainablity = genocide argument purely to assist their own agenda to populate the world with more of their kind.

The racism tool will inevitably be used to distract from the real issues and this is like playing with hot coals for most politicians.

I personally think Australians are ready and willing for discussion about human population and effects on resources and environment.

It is not only about how best to share and use resources but about the impact of continued and unchecked population growth.

Dear Examinator,

Thank You for your kind words.
As always they're deeply appreciated.

It's time that humanity realised that their
lives are a series of concentric circles,
growing and growing like ripples across water,
connecting them all in the same vast pool.

1.For the world as a whole, the number of children born per woman decreased from 5.02 to 2.65 between 1950 and 2005.
Europe 2.66 to 1.41
North America 3.47 to 1.99
Oceania 3.87 to 2.30
Central America 6.38 to 2.66
South America 5.75 to 2.51
Asia (excluding Middle East) 5.85 to 2.43
Middle East & North Africa 6.99 to 3.37
Sub-Saharan Africa 6.7 to 5.53

2.It has been assumed that global warming would cause an expansion of the world's deserts, but now some scientists are predicting a contrary scenario in which water and life slowly reclaim these arid places.
"The heating of the Earth would result in more evaporation of the oceans, in turn resulting in more rainfall."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8150415.stm

3.We need beter water managment, no overpopulation problems for Australia!
Torrential rains flood Australia's east coast
Thousands in two cities flee; some areas under 32 feet of water
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30886460/
Australia’s largest desalination plant, major irrigation upgrades and an expansion of the Victorian Water Grid are the centrepieces of a $4.9 billion plan to secure water supplies for the long term.
Desalination is a drought-proof, guaranteed water supply independent of rainfall or climate change,”
http://www.dpc.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/newmedia.nsf/b0222c68d27626e2ca256c8c001a3d2d/cc9c7628e163dcb3ca2572ff007c7e54!OpenDocument

4. SPACE
Arthur C. Clarke, a fervent supporter of Savage, argued that by 2057 there will be humans on the Moon, Mars, Europa, Ganymede, Titan and in orbit around Venus, Neptune and Pluto. Freeman Dyson (1999) favours the Kuiper belt as the future home of humanity, suggesting this could happen within a few centuries.

5. Overpopulation in Australia and overseas will create the best conditions to produce huge quantities of agricultural products and export them in extrem high prices. The golden years for Australia!

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

yeah the problem is us not dying fast enough

quote<<..CDC stops swine flu death count at 300
(Reuters)

More than 300 people have died from the new pandemic swine flu virus, U.S. health officials said on Friday, but they said the virus was so widespread they were ceasing the official count.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said 43,771 cases of H1N1 influenza had been officially confirmed, with 302 deaths.

The pandemic spread globally in less than two months and has infected people in 160 countries, killing 800 people, the World Health Organization said. The WHO numbers do not include the latest CDC count.

Health experts say millions have likely been infected worldwide, but doctors can only test a fraction of suspected cases. Flu tests are expensive and unreliable and confirming H1N1 swine flu is difficult.

Health officials are now working with companies to test and make a vaccine against H1N1 to be delivered alongside seasonal influenza vaccines.>>>just wait till the compulsory vacination begins[then we wil get the required death rate]...

thats how we got aids...thats how they got the spanish flue[during ww1...vacinating the sole-diers]...get your hot shot..do your duty [hurry up and die allready]...the needle is mightier than any word

C.D.C.: All U.S. Children Should Get Flu Shot
(Reuters)
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE56N41Y20090724?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&rpc=22&sp=true

All U.S. children aged 6 months to 18 years should get a seasonal influenza vaccine every year, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Friday.

The CDC’s Dr. Anne Schuchat said the agency was strengthening recommendations for children to get the vaccination against seasonal influenza, especially with fears that the new H1N1 virus will be added to the already expected burden of seasonal flu.

the vacine song
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=3253

Feds Roundup New Jersey Democrat Government Officials for Corruption
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=3416
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/criminal-rabbis/

Health Reform Beset By Infighting
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=3270
another 900 page document required to be passed asp
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=3411

a vacine form to give your peadio trition
http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1285&p=12035#wrap
http://www.prisonplanet.com/12000-u-s-children-to-be-swine-flu-vaccine-guinea-pigs.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/026685_Pfizer_Nigeria_United_States.html

stuff you should know
http://www.reddirtreport.com/news.php?id=11938
http://www.prisonplanet.com/squalene-the-swine-flu-vaccine%E2%80%99s-dirty-little-secret-exposed.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13925

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/unusual-magnetic-forces-should-not-have.html
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/the-war-on-terror-is-a-zionist-racket/

Rudd recently reduced Australia’s immigration intake, by a tiny token amount, after strong pressure from some unions and business groups. The argument was that immigrants take the jobs of established citizens.

But hold on, by Rudd’s reckoning, immigrants increase economic growth. That’s the reason he greatly boosted the immigration rate as soon as he got into power, isn’t it?

So surely when the economy is in a downturn, the thing to do is boost immigration further, which would create more jobs, wouldn’t it? And then reduce it when the economy’s booming!

Yeah right! Ah, these manic pro-growthers just don’t know what they’re on about!

So what is the real reason Rudd, and Howard, etc have imposed high immigration upon us?

Well….because of the vested interest that big business has in constantly increasing markets and productivity…and the very cosy relationship that government has with big business.

It’s as simple as that….isn’t it?

This also explains why government is so loathe to seriously talk about the issue of population growth.

It all comes down to the most incredible corruption, as discussed in the other two general threads that I’ve started recently:

Gordon Nuttall guilty of corruption. Political parties innocent!
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2925 and

Political donations – corruption of enormous proportions!
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=294

Ludwig

I believe that Pelican has summarised the situation perfectly:

"I personally think Australians are ready and willing for discussion about human population and effects on resources and environment.

It is not only about how best to share and use resources but about the impact of continued and unchecked population growth."

But government and big business are not listening; which would be understandable to some extent if they were aliens from planet X intent on exploiting Earth - but:

They ARE us.

Scary.

Fractelle,
You, Pelican and Ludwig are right. It is past time that we discussed immigration and population policy. The major parties have an agreement NOT to discuss immigration, which suits them and business fine.

Politicians are supposed to represent us but, after elections, ignore us. Wonder why they get little respect from us!

to quote as

the number of children born...per woman
...decreased....

from 5.02 to 2.65 between 1950 and 2005.>>

its funny and sad that people ignore the facts
and keep on beating up the excuse that leads to eugenics

but to return to the quote being so cleverly ignored

<<Europe BIRTH RATE FELL from...2.66 to 1.41
North America FELL FROM...3.47 to 1.99

Oceania 3.87 to 2.30
Central America 6.38 to 2.66
South America 5.75 to 2.51

Asia (excluding Middle East) 5.85 to 2.43
Middle East & North Africa 6.99 to 3.37
Sub-Saharan Africa 6.7 to 5.53

why are people keeping to their adgendas
adgendas that can only result in murder[eugenics]

can only result in racists getting comfort
from blaming scape goats...[immagrants]

can only result in govt turning to mass murder...or more racist bigotry...or other marxist solutions...great cut imagration

[then expell all you loud mouth imagrants...
[if your not black go home]

if your not born here
[if your parents arnt born here
[if your not black ...YOUR an imagrant

face facts you ....lot of im-mag-rants
try to keep your ignorance in check...
lest it become ...let ye without the black face go home

That has got to be the weirdest little glitch of the century - the way the last character disappears when you cut and paste into the new post preview box.

This time it corrupted the link to my general thread: Political donations – corruption of enormous proportions! Here’s the correct link: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2945

.
Fractelle, Pelican,

"I personally think Australians are ready and willing for discussion about human population and effects on resources and environment.”

Absolutely. They have been for a long time.

In 1994, we had the very comprehensive Inquiry into Australia’s Population Carrying Capacity, chaired by Barry Jones. It triggered a large number of submissions, from individuals to big companies, and received a high profile in the media.

So yes, the public is well and truly ready for this issue to be fully and openly discussed.

By the way, the outcome of that inquiry was comprehensively in favour of stabilising our population at about 23 million.

So what did the government do? Well of course they stuck it on the shelf and forgot about it!

The essence of the debate has been had. We don’t need to revisit that stuff. Essentially nothing has changed since 1994, except that our population is considerably larger and the growth rate is higher, which means that the urgency in dealing with the issue is a whole lot greater.

I can understand why the liblabs have resisted this debate and gone against this inquiry. But Bob Brown and his Greens (or pseudogreens) and the old fairies at the bottom of the garden who were supposed to be keeping the bastards honest, have also been utterly dismal over the intervening years in pushing for the incumbent government and the opposition to be accountable for their policy of ridiculously high population growth and never-ending expansionism, and to remember the findings of the 1994 inquiry.

Ludwig, Banjo
My good friends I do not understand you! 21 milion people in a whole continent and you shamelessly speak for overpopulation!
I like the jokes my friends but what kind of jokes are yours?
Why do not say anything for better water managment, why do not say anything for more water dams or lakes to save our flooded waters, to protect our properties from flood waters, to irrigate our land to make it more productive? Why do not say anything for more and bigger desalination plants which guaranteed water supply independent of rainfall or climate change?
Ludwig, Banjo, my good friends are you sure that you are worried for the resources and our environment and not because you are against migrants and refugees?
There are so many ways to improve our resources and our environment why do you stack against migrants and refugees?
Are you against migrants and refugees and you try to find excuses to block them?
I do not know my good friends but I think you hide your real goals!
Is it so difficult to tell to us the truth? I suspect that your crusade against migrants and refugees have to do with some privileges but I am not sure.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaid

"We will exceed 42 million people in 2050.<<

"Using the same calculation, in 2100 the population of India will be 4.5 billion, and Indonesia's over 700 million. Shouldn't that come into the equation somewhere?

"We do not live in a vacuum."

And three wrongs do not make it right. The deserts will win - a "mere" ten of them in Australia!

Your comments about racism are just not accurate Antonious.

Population sustainability is not just about the size of land in terms of area, but the availability of water, climate and amount of arable fertile land for agriculture.

You say just put up some more dams etc but can you not see the impact this would have on our river systems. There are already significant problems with the Murray-Darling and effects all along that system incuding the Coorong.

Population sustainability does not have to mean no immigration. It can easily be a one in and one out arrangement without favour to any one race/culture.

Issues which have been raised before would be to demolish birth incentives like baby bonuses and maternity leave. Immigration is just one part of the debate and it does not mean a total ban on immigration particularly for refugees.

We have to address this issue soon or we will eventually strangle our cities with inefficient infrastructure. We have the ridiculous situation where Melbourne is expanding at such a rate and the Nth/Sth pipeline which will only contribute to diversion of water from the northern food bowl part of that state.

We must be the only species that goes against the natural instinct of survival. Throughout the world we create overpopulated enclaves that can little support itself in terms of health, food, clean water and housing.

Protagorus is right. Why should we bear the whole burden, when places like China and India and Indonesia have enormous populations that dwarf ours. To the strong belong the land, and unless we are capable of holding on to it, with a sufficient population and a reasonable defence capability, someone probably a Muslim will take it from us.

Australia will always be able to feed itself, and we have a biggish ditch between us and our nearest possibly hostile neighbour. I think Kevin Rudd is exactly right to strengthen our defences,as Menzies started to do in 1936 when he saw trouble coming. The Labor Party effectively defended Australia by making the hard decisions, much to the disgust of Churchill, but Menzies had made it possible for wartime production to be stepped up.

The problem would be us, if the us was all humanity, but while it is only Us Australians,we need to as they used to say populate or perish. Appeasement is not an option but while we have no land border where an army can mass to invade, we have a big ditch between us and them, and plenty of ways to make it dangerous for anyone to cross with hostile intentions.

Antonios,
Ludwig and I have no hidden agendas, we are realists. You are the one with a problem. 'There are none so blind as those that will not see'

Australia is the driest continent on earth! There is only a small percentage that will support agriculture. Take a trip to Kalgoolie or to Alice Springs and see for yourself. Then try to drive from there to Broome and see what that country would sustain.

Have you seen the Snowy scheme and realise that it only supports a small irrigation area. From time to time various proposals have been put up to get water into the interior, but the cost is prohibative and the benefits doubtfull. You're the one who is lazy, because you will not do your homework before you shoot your mouth off.

Many experts say we have over populated now. Tim Flannery, for example, claims out population should only be 14 million.

Everything is easy to those who do not have to do it themselves. If it were simple and easy it would have been done. You do the research before you start accusing me of having some hidden agenda or ulterior motive because I see problems looming with a larger population.

Antonios

I appreciate your interest and I accept your questions as being sincere, despite the allegations of hidden agendas. But I’ve answered them all over and over on OLO, on numerous threads, some of which you have partaken in.

I find it quite extraordinary that you apparently don’t even have the most basic understanding of the reasons behind my desire for a stable population. And it is not only my desire, but one that is shared by many posters on this forum.

Alright, let’s look at water….

“Why do not say anything for better water management…”

I’ve had a lot to say about water management, especially the insanity of continuing with unfettered rapid population growth in areas that are suffering very serious water shortage/supply problems, such as southeast Queensland, Perth, etc.

Surely one of the most important principles of management is to balance the demand with the supply capability. So surely as soon as the supply capability becomes foreseeable as being insufficient to comfortably meet the demand, the most important thing to do is to at least stop the demand from rapidly increasing, if at all possible… and to keep it from increasing at least until the supply capability is capable of meeting the projected demand, with a big safety margin. But noooo, our illustrious governments haven’t even considered that, let alone made any attempts at all to even slightly slow the rate of increasing demand!

Talk about the most abysmal management, the most atrocious governance, the most extraordinary dereliction of the duty of care to the constituency!

They’ll look at every other possibility under the sun; new dams, desal, water restrictions, increased costs to consumers…just as long as their sacred cow of rapid population growth isn’t touched!

What they end up doing is squeezing more and more people in under the same stressed water resources, stressing them more and more, which ultimately is just going to be disastrous.

continued

I mean, the people overseeing this extraordinary mismanagement really should have been charged with serious misdemeanours and locked away for a long time. That’s how strongly I feel about it!!

Woops, I said in the opening post of this thread that my intention was not to rehash the basic debate or merits of a stable population.

So in line with the desired direction of the thread…..

We have a major study, which drew in comment from the public, experts, businesses and all sorts of interest groups, done fifteen years ago, which directly reinforces the goal that I have been pushing since 1989, that we should be heading immediately towards a stable population and that the most practical level is about 23 million.

So how on earth do we get our utterly unillustrious government to do this?

pelican
"but the availability of water, climate and amount of arable fertile land for agriculture"
1. We need a better water managment system to save the flood waters, The oceans are full of water we need more and bigger desalination plants, which guaranteed water supply independent of rainfall or climate change.

2. About the arable fertile land , if you ckeck the size of our arable land with other countries you will find that our arable land is many times bigger from other countries with bigger population.
The problem is that about 42% of the Australian land mass is under pastoral leases. Many of the leases were issued unchecked to land speculators and were never occupied or developed. We must use this land with a better way, we must miximise the benefits from this land.
http://www.nlc.org.au/html/land_native_wik.html

3. Banjo, "Many experts say we have over populated now." Rubish! you can find any kind of experts to say any kind of stupid things you want to listen, you know that! We are lucky! We will benefit from the overpopulation in other countries, The golden years for Australia will come after 60-70 years! Until then we must increase our population and use the maximum of our land and OF CAUSE TO IMPROVE OUR DEFENCE SYSTEM! Australia needs more than 100 milion population to be a strong country, I hope Australian governments will continue to bring more and more migrants ignoring voices like yours!

4. Ludwig I understand your worries about the environment but you do not care very much for migrants, refugees and for A STRONG AUSTRALIA! Comparing with other countries we are in good position, UK covers ONLY 30% of its needs and they do not discuss for overpopulation and we, 21 millions in a whole continent, worry for overpopulation? For me the main goals of our governments should be the improvement of our water systems, better use of the Crown Land- pastoral leases, increase of our population to be around 100 milions after 50-60 years and of cause the promotion of understanding and cooperation between Australians.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

“and OF CAUSE TO IMPROVE OUR DEFENCE SYSTEM! Australia needs more than 100 milion population to be a strong country,”

Ant

I’m ignorant on defence matters, however, commonsense tells me that bigger is not better and anyhow, what chance would 100 million Australians have against Indonesia’s 200 million, China’s 1.3 billion or even Pakistan’s 174 million (and rapidly expanding?) What's more the angry hordes would have to dodge our military coastal surveillance before invading our shores.

No Ant – I daresay hand to hand combat and the jolly old bayonet is redundant since the emergence of sophisticated WMD.

Perhaps you will ponder Israel’s position and ask how many wars, intifadas or conflicts they’ve had since 1948? About 12 from memory and Israel has a trivial 7.5 million people.

I find it fascinating to learn that a nation with 7.5 million people can defend itself in the face of so much adversity (with the exception of suicide bombers of course,) so you see Ant, size doesn’t matter. It’s how you use it old chap!

Antonious, if you think about it for a while, it will eventually
hit you that Australia actually belongs to the kangaroos, koala bears
and myriad of other Australian species which were here long before us.
We humans have simply stolen large chunks of it from them.

You might not be aware either, that alot of it, especially in the
West, is extremely old and clapped out soil, with few nutrients
left.

The days of large numbers of people winning wars are long gone. Today
its all about electronics, smart bombs etc, not how many people
live somewhere. So your "strong Australia" argument is a furphy.

Now you might not be so keen on nature, but if you go out into those
areas not overrun with humans, what you find is in fact great
beauty! All sorts of species, living their lives as nature intended.

Why you would want to overrun it all with ever more humans, which
already overcrowd the planet, robbing other species of space to live,
tells me that you can't be in touch with nature in any way.

Its a moral argument I know and there is no objective morality,
but I am of the firm conviction that we need to leave parts of this
planet for other species too, not just wall to wall humans.

Australian species are unique and were here long before us humans.
I think we should respect that and give them their space. We've
taken a big enough chunk of the place for ourselves, as it is

Antonios,
I think you said you have been in Aus for 16 years. It is hard to believe that any person could be here for that length of time and be so bloody ignorant.

Not only me but others here have tried to give you factual information but you simply refuse to take any of it in. You will not listen but stick to your own silly notions that you have dreamt up.

Your ideas and statements have no foundation what so ever.

You are a stupid self opinionated fool.

It is a bit sad that you will never learn, even a little. But then ignorance is bliss.

i advise you..who think it over crowded here..get your flue shot when the govt mandates you to take it...there are plans affoot to cure the world of useless eaters...

mainly because as your own posts reveal..life is cheap....keep talking..you may get the solution earlier than you realise...

know when it comes..posts such as yours..gave the true evil..the heart to murder...your words do more than you realise...all of you so clever with words...yet so careless of others lives...bravo you heroes

yes the title is apt...the problem really is fools such as you

Banjo,
Thank yopu Banjo, we desagree because we have different goals, You are interested for the CLEAN RACE, OTHERS FOR CLEAN ENVIRONMENT AND ME FOR STRONG AUSTRALIA!

Protagoras The Israel without USA support and without the UK to give everything for their nuclear weapons it could be desappeared long time ego. It has problems and soon it will be a minority. We need more population for many reasons, including our defence.

Yabby, I am glad to see you green! for how many hours my friend?

*Yabby, I am glad to see you green! for how many hours my friend?*

About 35 years now Antonious. The problem is that you try to fit
people into little boxes in your mind. So the problem is your
mind, not my philosophies, which you perhaps simply don't understand.

You want to dominate nature at all costs, I think that humanity
should live within the laws of nature and exist as part of the
environment.

We will never achieve that until we address the ever increasing
human population problem. You think thats a good thing, I think
that unsustainable, so a bad thing. We will have to agree to
disagree.

Read Darwin's Origin of Species, then you might understand
my philosophies, but then maybe not.

Our species is simply one which evolved to have a slightly larger
brain, for good evolutionary reasons. That makes us smart enough
to invent new things, but stupid enough to also wipe ourselves
out in the longer term. Nature will sort it all out, when the
whole system becomes unsustainable and crashes, due to an ever
growing human population. I've accepted that long ago.

It was my Birthday on Saturday, 25th July - and
I was given a most incredible book as one of
my presents - it's "Billy Connolly - Journey
To The Edge of The World." I simply can't put it
down.

In the Introduction Billy says,
" I'm bored rigid with those who refer to our
world as an 'environment.' I can't take another
evening of watching programmes or reading articles
telling me that if we would do this or that there
would be more spotted bears and it's all our fault.
My message to them is simple: Shut Up.

The human race isn't given enough credit. Sure, we
have made some horrible mistakes, but we have also
done some immensely big and good things. That's
what keeps the ball going around and around. Best of
all, there are still delightful folk who get on with
their lives harmoniously; with nature and with each
other. Those people who cook your meals or deliver
things, who cut your hair or chop your logs, who catch
your fish or make your shoes, who herd your cattle or
push their children on the swings. They don't have a
spokesman... "

What Billy was trying to say (and this is only
my interpretation) is that - let's lighten up
just a little - sure we need to solve things,
find better ways to manage our sustainability on
this planet - but let's not be too down on things -
especially each other - let's remember the kind of
beauty that still exists in people's eyes and in
their hearts and souls. As Billy points out,
"The sort of beauty and goodness you can tell by
the shake of a hand, especially if it's a big,
happy, handshake at the end of a chance encounter..."
We've only got to remember the stories of those
who've lived and breathed and died in this incredible
country of ours - and who are sitll doing so ...
in their own quiet way...

Banjo,
"You are a stupid self opinionated fool." Thank my good friend! Am I all this things? Bravo my friend you are the best! Do you mean If I agree with you I will not be stupid? My friend If I agree with you I will be double stupid! First because I left my good ideas and secondly and most important because I agree with you while I know your ideas! The white Australia is dead my good friend, We need more migrants to change the synthesis of australian population! (I am joking my friend I know your worries and I play with you!)
How do you feel when you call your friend stupid and ..fool? Thank you Sir! If it comes from you NO PROBLEM!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

its funny we have people saying we should live within the laws of nature....so lets think of these 'laws' of nature of the beast

ok...only the fit survive...the strongest one gets the bone...if you can hold it its yours...if you can threaten a femail of your species into laying mute thats seemingly just fine...lets chuck out al civility anf go ah'la-natural...let it all hang out..stop shaving your legs you pretender

its al good and fine to hide behind the advantagers of a civil society and blaTHER ON ABOUT NAURAL...natural what is beyond your defining...you mental deviaNTS BEEN CONNED BY SCIENCES CLAIM of 'natural selection'...little seeing its simply spin

your being sold a delusion..and calling it good..[when you got no hope of surviving the laws of thge beast...you got no idea on how to kill your food....let alone gut a road kill..nor how to plow a field,shuck corn,or bake bread in a mud oven..let alone find and grind your seeds into flour..[or even build a fire by your own wits..

[you lot are as un natural as it gets,..a bloody lot of exclusive toffs..who wouldnt have the first clue how to survive natural law...little knowing how to treat your own sickness..[let alone repair a car...or god forbid walk to the bus...defend your home from maurauding hoards or make your own dental floss

lets move on from your collective delusions that under natural law you lot would have any hope of surviving[your lot are the fittest in this civilised fantisy...time to get real..[this civilisation is your only hope to survive...

once the cull comes...and yes its well in the planning[2/3 rds WILL die...[and the working slobs arnt there to serve you..you will begin eating each other soon enough...[with luck you mighht be the first lot eaten...

i plan on fighting for now..while it makes a difference...while you lot continue to reveal your own complacency and dead set collective ignorance..by talking about your iffs and butts..you wannabe naturalists got no idea

OUG
You're right on the button.
The spread of disease to cull 80% of the world's population is already taking place.It is coming thru the air (chem-trails), thru water (fluorilisic acid)and GMO's (in food) long years of chem-fertilizers.
People don't (cannot) wake up 'cause they are too dumbed down by these chemicals coming thru our systems.
As the NWO is already in command of most nations plus the attention on Obama's science advisor John P. Holdren, who in his 1977 book Ecoscience called for mass sterilization through the water supply, forced abortion and other totalitarian eugenics policies.
Spells it all out for us doesn't?
It is no more an Australian concern of growth, it's too late for that.
It is no more a Conspiracy Theory as anyone could find enough signs on the Net to start calling it...FACT.
Do you ever see pollies lining up as a first in a vaccination line?
Mmmm and what water do they use?
Look up http://kopyme.com/2009/07/un-and-who-charged-with-intent-to-commit-massmurder/

thanks..for the/extra/info...today..alex-jones..was..going to explain it..on the sunday-show...but instead were getting a replay from jason/burnus...such is the total controle/of..the web..that the eugeni-systs..hold over us..all

people blog on about how..jones is a conspiricy theorist..but like us has studied the beast/..of the new-world..order...we can explain all we like..about the eugenisyst adgenda..and the sheep mearly tune into the bbc..[a creation of british intel]..and get more programing

they dont notice..that weekends are all about sport,..destraction of the M-asses..where is the news on weekends?..that could help people get real..about the real/adgenda

you need only look at the posts/posted..[most have no problem with mass murder..[as long as its not them...but they drink the water..[they breath/the poluted air...they will get sick..and be put down by a drug overdose...just as easy as us

there are many blogging/the[NWO}adgenda...and been sucked in by the cure..that results in mass muder...little realising they wont need bloggers..when the web gets shut down

but back to alex-jones...much of the info he broadcasts is from whistle blowers..[remember them?..when is the last time current affair or today tonight did any..REAL whistle blowing..[or even the abc/sbs for that matter...lateline is basiclly a re-run of the 7.30 report...four corners might be waking-up at least..lol

i dont care for me..[im old..lived my life and die gladly],..knowing there really is a god...but there are many posters here...even ones i regularilly disagree with..i simply dont feel..deserve to die in ignorance..

the elites..really are planning an end-time...it will be via an apparent accident...possably via compulsory/contaminbated/vacinations...for swine flue..[a nothing flue as far as flues go...yet govt will force you all to take it...or go to jail]

if you doudt what we are saying go to alex jones site
http://www.infowars.com/
note the box that says...sunday show...ask..how come thats not playing..just egsactly what dont someone want you to hear?

if you dig further..there are many other issues..but hey your free to remain ignorant...but think..why are you afraid to face the simple truths...

read the other posts...most posts/posters..here even..will gladly let you..[or most of us..die]...wake up..smell the roses..dont get angry..just stop blogging their adgenda for them...you might just get what you wished for..
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

Sheesh, I did mention somewhere that I thought humanity was
stupid enough, to eventually stuff the planet.

After reading OUGs posts and links, I am now absolutaly convinced!

Don't be so uncharitable, Yabby.

oug provides a valuable service, keeping us abreast of the latest conspiracy theories.

I hadn't heard of Alex Jones until oug pointed him out.

>>note the box that says...sunday show...ask..how come thats not playing..just egsactly what dont someone want you to hear?<<

(Relax, oug, the audio feed works just fine under Linux. Maybe it's just Microsoft that doesn't want you to hear what he has to say. What do they have to hide, do you think? Maybe they are part of the Evil Empire... no, wait, we already knew that...)

Jones has got himself a great gig.

First he puts the fear of bejeezus into his audience about the quality of their water - "scientists found 240 chemicals and pollutants" - then sells them an Ecoloblue dehumidifier at $1,350 a pop!

And hey, don't forget your "End the Fed" T-shirt.

Seriously, it is clear to me that one of the most significant contributions to the world that the Internet has made - after free porn, of course - is the ability for every nutjob to propagate their favourite conspiracy theory, and every gullible twerp to feed their paranoid fantasies on those theories.

It's intensely symbiotic, and everybody wins. The shockjock makes a motza out of merchandising, just so long as he keeps those conspiracies a-rolling. And the punters just lap it up, and feed it into sites like this, which makes them feel important.

Unfortunately, here it simply withers on the vine for lack of oxygen. And of any vestige of credibility, of course.

But the reason we don't give these theories credence, you realize, is because we are stooges of the New World Order, paid to cast doubt every time we see someone telling the "truth".

We are living proof, Yabby.

We clearly wouldn't bother, unless we are trying to suppress the evidence - and by doing so, we give away the fact that we are merely paid puppets of the Global Masters.

How else would I know what they are called...?

yer sooo funny gabby
but remember insanity in the common people is of no affect
insanity in our leaders..[is clear and present danger]

see mate...i got no secrets worth killing people over
but can you be so sure..your public servants have nothing to hide

you have seen how they mindlessly send kids off to die in war

you watched as humans were experimented on with nuke blasts

you seen how the asbestosis..[and smoking dangers were sooo long suppressed/..just maybe..they got worse stuff..they cant tell us about

how about the cyanide they gave to the abo's

or how people losing their homes..brought down the values their credit..and the banks].. was built on...or rather the securities created from those idiots overvalued mortgauge documents...many of us now hold as book value/securities..in our pension scemes

your smaRT ENOUGH..TO KNOW THAT THE BLACK DEATH CREATED HUGE labour shortages...howhards cure was to tie the workers to work contracts...work/choices

..at the same time he bought millions of tamiflue..[on the public purse/tick...you think he wasnt told some scary stuff..to bring his adgenda forward

no mate..believe as you chose..if some poor ignorant mug can think it so can some inbred elite..not wanting to explain things to a raving/hungry creat unwashed/lynch mob...

even cops..when they know the truth join the mob..[so too solgers..

so the troops/cops... wont do the cull..of the fools in the streets...for that you need ignorasnt serfs..working for a contractual bonus...like the copoes that put the jews in the gas chambers..

except..these mindless robots..are injecting your grandchildren at school...your grandparents in their nursding homes..[at 900 bucks a shot...great money op..your missing there..gabby

for god sake...actually rebut the things im posting..try to explain what alex is saying away...get an internet connection that allows to to actually use the web..to get info..not just spout your usual clever reparte...in simplistic posts...that actually dont say anything..but how clever you are...lol..and how dumb everyone else is

ahh per-ridicul-us...crealy your one step up on gabby[you actually have a brain...its just a shame you got nothing clever to cancel out what alex has revealed...just exposing his advertisers...yet nothing to say about the actual content

clearly you just look for anything to rebut...by visiting any link...i seem to recal another debatye you queried the abitity to cure cancer...yet failed to rebut the list of cancer cures i refuted your distraction with

your both just working on your inbuilt reaction..using distractions

you have the link..

correct what alex IS SAYING...

not just how he is paying to get the message out...bet both of you got a water filter of some sort under ya sink...or drink bottled water...or straight booze..

gabby possably gets his straight from a dam...

but now im reacting..to your non reaction...as bad as you lot...

rebut what is being revealed...
you know the link

or prove the problem really is you...[us]
or rather your appathy

Dear OUG,
The problem is us .We have been dead to God since the fall of mankind and we do not like to have our comfort zone invaded or we get very uncomfortable. We only believe in what we see so please don't tell us that there is a diferent paradyne to think out of.Its to chalanging. After all shortage sounds easier than Doing things better. If you fail to plan it = plan to fail. It is much easier to say Richie 10 is nuts than investigate his claims of a better WAY.

*oug provides a valuable service, keeping us abreast of the latest conspiracy theories.*

Ah Pericles, in the name of fairness, I had another look at
Alex the shockjock's website, given that the CIA has not been
sending me those monthly payments on time.

The first thing that hit me were two pictures, one of empty
shelves in a gunstore selling bullets, the other a heap of
empty shelves in a supermarket. Seemingly this is going to
happen next!

So I clicked on the empty supermarket shelves to discover more
and the very nice people there are offering to sell me a whole
year's worth of groceries, to make sure I will be ok and not
run out of food.

No doubt OUG has his supplies already. Along with the silver
bars under the bed, now all the food too, things would be getting
crowded.

But never mind, at least now we know the truth, just as
Alex the shock jock tells us. Sheesh, we learn something
new every day.

UOG...You can tell by the reactions who are included in the 80%,can't you? Obviously they don't care about their progeny or maybe they can't get any due to drinking fluoride for so long.
They belong to the class of dunny-budgies heh? One swat and they're gone.

eftfnc,i take no pleasure in their ignorance,but will repsect their choice to pretend it isnt so...hopefully the little we do is enough so the leaders wakeup to the fact their plan wont save them either,...im reminded that those who lie down with dogs get fleas

i was further reminded just minutes ago...a show on sbs,called something like the darkside of the moon landing...revealing the nixoon.rumsfeld/kissenger/haig collusions in the deceptions of the moonlandin g photo's...as well as the numerous murders they are aware of to suppress the truth...that kubrich filmed the footage in london

we should simply be glad..we got no conclusive proofs...we have mearly taken the time to listen top those who know...but those who do know for sure...ie..their own...do know what they witnessed..[first hand...its them that need to worry...[not us]

it is enough that we know of the thermite that brought down the buildings...and the many other collusions perpritated by the state directly against those they are charged to protect..[not decieve]

...my consolation remains with the fact nothing will remain hidden..and that they did to the least they do to god...the god of all life...who is not served by death...

im getting sick of those i told other things..in the past saying you were right...it will be less consoling..to be proven right yet again...i would much prefer i was wrong...

but only time will tell...but it is to each to chose for themselves to remain silent..or ask questions...or at least state definitivly..NOT IN MY NAME.

*i was further reminded just minutes ago...a show on sbs,called something like the darkside of the moon landing...revealing the nixoon.rumsfeld/kissenger/haig collusions in the deceptions of the moonlandin g photo's*

Oops OUG, I saw that show too and in case you missed it, it was
actually a spoof documentary. In other words... a joke.

Did you notice at the end, when they all started laughing about
their lines and scripts?

But just in case you still are not convinced, perhaps SBS would
know. The programme is advertised as a spoof.

http://www.sbs.com.au/schedule/SBSONE/2009-07-27/SBS%20Sydney

Ok back to my email to the CIA, to ask where my cheque is, for
doing all this work for them :)