See, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWlDnv5oYdg&feature=player_embedded

The US Govt now gives reponsibility to a private group of banks to regulate and control private enterprise.Who voted for board members of the US Federal Reserve? How would businesses here like it,if the CBA,Westpac,ANZ etc had total regulatory powers over all business activity? Do you think there could be a bit of self interested bias here?

Perhaps Obama inadvertantly has created a new concept,ie "Corporate Communism".This will not end well.

yeah its a worry[..because the fed bankers,..used to control only the credit..[and all money can buy],...but now can become iside traders, knowing all that inside info..that businesss now must disclose to the banking cartel...we live in interesting times..[who is watching the watcher]

last night we saw what oversights govt agencies..didnt have..over madoff,..who turned a great scam of fake trading..into a cash accumulating pyramid/ponzie sceme..

one can only imagine how good the fed can do it...seeing as it has never allowed even an audit,it dont need to account to govt [and now not ever to any regulator]...as well as having full oversight over all other business,indeed the power of money and now the power of cutting off investigation

[bankers must have been able to know...by the non-flow of cash madoff was lying...yet remained mute

[it simply didnt expose the ponzie sceme it must have known was NOT
going on...simply by following the cash flows...to and from madoff]

guess
we wont ever see an audit of the fed
[shultz..i see nothing]
ziehheil the bolchovics ruling the world

This is fascinating, Arjay.

Do you actually spend your days trawling YouTube for the latest conspiracy theories? Although I have to admit, Fox News is a rich lode to mine for these... and as for the comments that followed the clip you pointed us to - what a hoot!

But back to the matter in hand - the Fed.

The best way to understand the Fed is not to look at it as a conspiracy of rich people, determined to oppress and rip off the rest of humanity. Instead, take a look at how the US Government ran fiscal policy before the Fed existed.

What has been achieved is a level of separation between raw politics and the management of the economy - or to be specific, money supply. The idea of a "private group of Banks" managing this might fill you with dread - as it most clearly does - but a far less palatable idea would be to place this power in the hands of faceless bureaucrats.

Or worse - and here's a topical allusion for you - bureaucrats who have secret political leanings of their own, and actively undermine the government of the day.

That's a recipe for real chaos.

The part of this whole deal that you invariably miss is that by far the greater part of the Fed's role is actually self-regulating, and is the direct result of the inability, within the accounting systems that all these people use, for an asset to exist without a corresponding liability.

This means of course that they have to bring to account every dollar that they produce, alongside the loan documentation that created it.

As to the Fed's role in determining the level of fat permissible in a hamburger, as shown in the video, this is simply too ridiculous for words.

I'm now pretending to be surprised that you didn't notice this for yourself.

from
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14057

...Wall Street’s..‘product,’..debt creation,..at the expense of the economy at large,..and lets financial chieftains continue to self-regulate the debt industry..and..to keep all their gains from the past decade’s worth of fraudulent lending,..scot-free….

(He]..achieved what no Republican could have:..rescuing the Bush administration’s pro-creditor policies that fostered the Bubble Economy in the first place.”

The plan is laden with a..“false diagnosis”..and.“fatal flaws,”..so clearly what’s proposed are..“wrong-headed cures..(but hardly)..by accident.”

If it’s largely accepted as is,..Wall Street will get precisely what it wants..a veneer of regulatory cover..to keep wrecking the economy and stealing the public blind.

Simon Johnson is also critical...expressed great skepticism...Even though large banks..and other financial institutions/caused the global crisis,..no wrongdoing..on their part is cited..nor are punitive measures proposed.

He states:..“There appears to be no mention/that corporate governance within these large banks failed totally...How on earth can you expect these banks to operate in a responsible manner..unless and until..you address the reckless manner in which they..(a)compensate themselves,(b)..destroy shareholder value,..and..(c)treat boards of directors as toothless wonders?

The profound silence on this point..from the administration - including some of our finest economic,financial,and legal thinkers..

“..The reform process..appears to have been captured at any early stage..by design the lobbyists were let into the executive branch’s (planning process),..so we don’t even get to have a transparent debate..or to hear specious arguments..about why we really need big banks.”

Johnson like Hudson..added that financial giants are pleased with Obama’s plan,..and why not...They wrote it.

On June 16,..even The New York Times suggested it in Stephen Labaton’s article headlined:..“Obama Sought a Range of Views on Finance Rules.”..Over several weeks,“executives from an array of industries caught up in the financial crisis..came to Washington….to make their case..for how the new regulatory landscape should look.

“Now lobbyists….will head to Congress..to try to influence the final product”..with no doubt..they will so once again consumer interests will be shortchanged..perhaps globally..given events reported earlier this year/discussed below.

Steps Toward Global Money and Banking Control

In her April 18,2009 article titled“The Tower of Basel:..Do We Really Want the Bank for International Settlements Issuing Our Global Currency:..continued at link

http://www.infowars.com/obamas-financial-reform-proposal-a-stealth-scheme-for-global-monetary-control/

Obama has given absolute power to the very people who caused the collapse.Either he does not have a clue or is just a puppet of the power brokers.The Fed is creating all this debt money ,but it is not reaching the real economy.That is why we have interest rates beginning to rise here.The Fed did this during the Great Depression.The Depression of 1932 would not have happened if the Fed had not inflated the money supply then restricted the money supply.What are they doing with it?

4th of July 09 could herald serious demonstrations and perhaps violence.They must not give Obama any excuse to declare martial law.Even of Ron Paul gets the magic 290 Congress support for HR 1207,I think they will ignore it.

Don't worry folks;all is well the vacuum that Pericles lives in.Just deny reality and label anything that remotely disconcerting as conspiracy theory.

Arjay, despite the occasional difference of outlook, I find Pericles lucid, realistic, and rational, and he has shown me aspects of things that I had missed, that’s always welcome.
Simplistic, you-tube eccentric driven conspiracies make good reading, but bear little resemblance to reality, IMO.
I am an opponent of the capitalist system as it now operates, but accept that it will take a lot to change it, time, effort, and people of good heart. That process will happen, over time, and historical type events, wars, revolutions, social unrest, depressions etc are inevitable catalysts, along with many other indefinable influences, but bleating about conspiracies and seeing devils behind every move contributes nothing to the future. I see the wealthy oligarchs co-operating at times, to benefit themselves, but they are as likely to attack each other, that’s the nature of the beast.
Conspiracies only work on a small level, it’s too difficult to keep secrets in this 21st century for them to hope to succeed, especially if they involve powerful, greedy, self-interested control-freaks, which is as good a definition of those at the top as I have run across

So Maximillion,Ron Paul and 237 Congressmen who want a detailed audit of the Fed are delusional? Ron Paul wants to abolish the Fed.Last election had 11% voter support and now it is much greater.Thousands of people in the US who want to go back to the constitution.You are driven by the popular media,if it's not on CNN or Sky then it's not true. There are none so blind who will not see.

Thank you Maximillion. Much appreciated.

Arjay, there are a number of aspects of this whole collapse-thing that you don't understand. Which is fine, we are all in that boat, me included.

But the big picture, at least, is worth taking time and effort to understand, if only to enable us to sort out constructive proposals from political expediency.

Also, it helps to know exactly when we should panic, and when we should just sigh, and move on.

>>Obama has given absolute power to the very people who caused the collapse.<<

Neither part of this holds water. The Fed was not the cause of the collapse, nor have they been given anything close to "absolute power".

>>Either he does not have a clue or is just a puppet of the power brokers.<<

Ah, the old "either/or" trick. Not nice.

As it happens, I believe he is making reasonable progress in a tough situation while holding a pretty weak hand of cards. And there is no evidence that he is favouring any particular cadre of "power brokers".

>>The Fed is creating all this debt money ,but it is not reaching the real economy<<

Right, but only up to a point. It has been authorized, and will be available if needed. What we have is a statement of intent, to prop up borrowing to a particular level. It is actually a good, not a bad thing, that it hasn't all been soaked up.

>>That is why we have interest rates beginning to rise here.<<

There is only the loosest connection between the actions of the Fed, and interest rates here in Australia. But we are largely following the same path as the US - we were given the Deposit Guarantee and the Wholesale Funding Guarantee, both of which allow the use of taxpayers' money to prop up various debt instruments that might otherwise collapse.

It is not ideal. It is not foolproof. It has benefitted our Banks in their ability to gobble up competitors. But so far, it is stopping the ship from sinking, as opposed to merely leaking.

And while I'm here, Arjay, I might as well address the wilder parts of your post.

>>The Fed did this during the Great Depression.The Depression of 1932 would not have happened if the Fed had not inflated the money supply then restricted the money supply.<<

Interestingly, one of the most respected researchers and analysts of the period, with a number of books to his name, is Ben Bernanke. And (shock, horror!) he largely agrees with you. And his promise to Milton Friedman - who also identified this as a significant factor - was "thanks to you, we won't do it again".

He knows what he is doing.

Again, it isn't perfect, and much of it is trial and error, since we haven't been in this situation before. But when it comes to choosing whether to believe him (and Obama) or Arjay, I'm afraid there's no contest.

No offence Arjay. But I actually think both the others at least understand how a balance sheet works.

>>4th of July 09 could herald serious demonstrations and perhaps violence.They must not give Obama any excuse to declare martial law<<

Oh, please.

This thread, and a few others reminds me of a bush walk I took in the 1970,s.
With three friends we walked in rain forest far from roads or even tracks down into the very heart of jungle like scrub.
I loved every bit of it.
2 of my fellow wanderers found trees ,young saplings in fact broken at about 10 feet.
4 OR 5 side by side.
They entered into a conversation that it must have been a yowie, only he/she could get that high.
Well traveler number 3 seemed spooked,while not totally seeing yowies he felt he said, spooked.
I kept my mirth to myself.
Near the river, right at the bottom of that very long walk my two over active minded mates found further evidence of a yowie , a moss covered log ripped apart they said by him her.
No they had no leg pull in mind the 3rd of us spooked still took of up the hill,over an hour later he was sweating and still distressed .
Other two?
Until one died, miss him a mate and relation,every day, they told this story often.
Me?
Evidence can be miss used can be mistaken, but I like any bush walker knew black cockatoos can do much damage if looking for food and grubs need to go very deep if hiding from them.
[ sorry about the spelling truely trying but may have to dump firefox, its spell check will not work for me ideas?]

Four US Presidents [Abraham Lincoln,James Garfield, Andrew Jackson, John Kennedy] have all tried to get rid of the US Federal Reserve.Even Woodrow Wilson in 1913 who signed away the rights of Congress to issue in currency later lamented his mistake.It is against the US constitution for any other body than the US Govt to do so.

All these presidents bar Andrew Jackson were assassinated.Although Jackson had a couple of attempts on his life,Jackson actually said that the banks were trying to kill him.

The power of the US Fed is too great.Power corrupts and absolute power
corrupts absolutely.

Arjay, just a little reminder. There have been around 90 attempts
to assassinate US presidents. In fact, just about all of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts

Its a gun culture country and being shot is part of the risk of
the job. Now my prediction is that no matter what Obama does,
his risk of being shot is in fact extremely high, Fed or no
Fed. Every nutcase in the US has a gun

Sales by CEOs,directors and senior officers have accelerated to the highest level since June 2007,..two months before credit markets froze,..as the S&P 500 rebounded from its 12-year low in March...The increase is making investors more skittish because executives presumably have the best information about their companies’..prospects.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aflROe0Pe0QM
http://www.infowars.com/stolen-palestinian-properties-being-sold-by-american-companies/

Ben Bernanke and the Federal Reserve made inappropriate threats to fire Bank of America management unless they went ahead with the..’shotgun wedding’..that was the Merrill Lynch acquisition.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews/idUSWEN096120090624
http://www.infowars.com/in-1969-rockefeller-official-said-us-would-be-de-industrialized/

As Americans struggle through the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression,..this emergency supplemental appropriations bill sends..$660 million to Gaza,..$555 million to Israel,..$310 million to Egypt,..$300 million to Jordan,and $420 million to Mexico..Some $889 million will be sent to the United Nations for so-called “peacekeeping” missions...Almost one billion dollars will be sent overseas to address the global financial crisis outside our borders.
http://www.infowars.com/obama-claims-cia-involvement-in-iran-patently-false/
http://www.infowars.com/confidential-memo-reveals-us-plan-to-provoke-an-invasion-of-iraq/
http://www.infowars.com/browns-secret-iraq-war-investigation-will-be-seen-as-cover-up-warn-army-and-intelligence-chiefs/
http://www.infowars.com/israel-india-fomenting-trouble-in-pakistans-tribal-region/
http://www.infowars.com/son-of-shah-says-protesters-defeat-could-lead-to-nuclear-war/
http://www.infowars.com/how-western-media-backs-green-revolution-in-iran/

Nearly $8 billion will be spent to address a “potential pandemic flu” which could result in mandatory vaccinations for no discernable reason other than to enrich the pharmaceutical companies that make the vaccine.
http://www.infowars.com/mandatory-h1n1-vaccine-may-be-in-the-works/
http://www.infowars.com/the-panopticon-economy-2/
Perhaps most outrageous is the $108 billion loan guarantee to the International Monetary Fund.These new loan guarantees will allow that destructive organization to continue spending taxpayer money to prop up corrupt leaders and promote harmful economic policies overseas.
http://www.infowars.com/scheuer-obama-managed-to-keep-his-big-mouth-shut-while-israelis-killed-1500-people-in-gaza/
http://www.infowars.com/iranian-interior-minister-western-intelligence-behind-riots-and-unrest/
http://www.infowars.com/tribal-leader-who-revealed-taliban-israeli-us-links-assassinated/
http://www.infowars.com/cia-rehired-then-fired-contractors-involved-in-torture/
http://www.infowars.com/neocon-blogs-cheer-violence-by-iran-protesters/
http://www.infowars.com/justice-department-tries-to-stop-lawsuit-to-return-geronimos-remains-held-at-skull-and-bones/

Yawn OUG, so what have you got your knickers in a twist about now?

I just thought of a little ditty, especially for you:

Around every corner, behind every tree,
You watch out OUG, they are waiting for thee!

yawn...not again..with playing the man..not the ball
and failing to rebut a single point..but thats not all

crabby/gabby wrote me a ditty
oh my lord..aint he witty

oh well...nothing to see here..so i guess..thats all
our postings are posted..goodnight to one and all

read the link..tell me what you think
kick the ball back..[your poetry doth stink

love ya jelly belly..but your poetry is prety smelly

ROFL OUG, writing ditties and storing silver under the bed are
clearly more up your ally then economics :)

So I will translate it for you:

Point one, we know some directors are selling, for the sharemarket has
risen 50% in 3 months on some shares, which is clearly not reflected
in earnings, which are expected to trend down. So the smart money
is taking some profits.

Point 2, we know about Bernanke err strongly encouraging BOA,
its old hat, its already been investigated in Senate hearings, which
one could watch live on Bloomberg.

Point 3, yes America still provides aid to other countries,as it always has.

Point 4, yes America is spending money on making vaccines, as is
Australia giving money to CSL, a few hundred million, to make
a swine flu vaccine. That is what Govts do, to protect their
communities.

Point 5. Yes America and other Western countries bankroll the
IMF. They always have.

Best you go and count your silver lol, there are lots of burglars in
Sydney!

Bumper sticker - seen on a car in
Alabama - USA:

"PALEFACE HAVE
OBAMA TRAUMA."

Perhaps you should get one Arjay!

Foxy assumes a lot.Firstly that I'm pale and secondly that Obama is all that he seems.She also implies that I'm racist by virtue to disagreeing with a black person.I thought you of all people would be a person of principal.

Obama was groomed by the Corporates as witnessed by the fact he surrounds himself with all the old baggage of the Bush dynasty.Zbigniew Brezizinski is in charge of foreign policy and he openly brags of sucking the Russians into Afghanistan for a taste of their Vietnam. In his book The Grand Chessboard he says,",..moreover as America ecomes increasingly multi-cultural society it may find it becomes more difficult to fashion a consensus for foreign policy except in the circumstances of a TRULEY MASSIVE AND WIDELY PERCEIVED DIRECT EXTERNAL THREAT." This was written in 1997.

Zbig as he known,wanted to go into Pakistan long ago,Clinton said no and even Bush said no,but now Obama is in there destabilising a country with nuclear weapons.This has nothing to do with terrorism,it all about getting an oil pipeline down through Afghanistan to source the oil in central Asia.Zbig wants to put nuclear weapons in Poland to neutralise Russia's first strike.

See Webster Tarpley's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-KJCMWcoms&feature=related This is really an excellent insight into geo-politics.

Webster wrote the Unofficial Biography of George Bush senior.

Foxy assumes a lot.Firstly that I'm pale and secondly that Obama is all that he seems.She also implies that I'm racist by virtue to disagreeing with a black person.I thought you of all people would be a person of principle.

Obama was groomed by the Corporates as witnessed by the fact he surrounds himself with all the old baggage of the Bush dynasty.Zbigniew Brezizinski is in charge of foreign policy and he openly brags of sucking the Russians into Afghanistan for a taste of their Vietnam. In his book The Grand Chessboard he says,",..moreover as America becomes increasingly multi-cultural society it may find it becomes more difficult to fashion a consensus for foreign policy except in the circumstances of a TRULEY MASSIVE AND WIDELY PERCEIVED DIRECT EXTERNAL THREAT." This was written in 1997.

Zbig as he known,wanted to go into Pakistan long ago,Clinton said no and even Bush said no,but now Obama is in there destabilising a country with nuclear weapons.This has nothing to do with terrorism,it all about getting an oil pipeline down through Afghanistan to source the oil in central Asia.Zbig wants to put nuclear weapons in Poland to neutralise Russia's first strike capacity.

See Webster Tarpley's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-KJCMWcoms&feature=related This is really an excellent insight into geo-politics.

Webster wrote the Unofficial Biography of George Bush senior.

Dear Arjay,

I don't assume that you're pale at all.
For all I know - you could be polka dot.

The term 'Paleface,' as you should know
from your American Westerns was a term
used by American Indians to describe all
non 'red,' people.

And, you have to admit -
that you do suffer from 'Obama Trauma,'
somewhat...
what number thread is this now?

Obviously you don't have a sense of humour.
So, guaranteed - you won't enjoy this bumper-sticker
either...

Seen on the back of a car in Utah, USA (Mormon country),

"You're the reason God invented the middle-finger!"

hey arjay we cant expect people to know the ins and outs of everything[people are ea-silly taken in by the skin thing.

people dont realise the plan comes via kissenger[obama was his intern,now kissenger is his main adviser,..he dont do nothing but what henry tells/advises him..but hidden wisely keeps well in the background,..he isnt likely to be as obvious as dikkk cheeney,,but has much the same role and powers...lest the public catch on to really runs the show.

anyhow thats all i got to say..for some it will explain nothing..[for others well who knows...henry runs the bilderberger's as well,that brezzinski dude fits in there as well..[but no one knows how dangerouse that dude truelly is..it was him invented the bin larden character they claim brought down the towers

[..and him created that rightwing religious claptrap in the middle east]..both serve zion..but of course they are too clever..staying in the background..[while advising their black jfk]..the public fall for it all the time...

obama is that faulse prince of peace the prophecy talks about...well lets see what kissenger/barinski make their goy clayman do...he isnt the first puppet...but just might be the last..he is just so likable,..seemingly so intelligent/hansom and certainly well briefed by kidssenger and co..

[so far..as kissenger keeps him..on the need to know basis....oh well obama is a better leader than they deserve...and lets face it kissenger and co..arnt total idiots

Foxy,the middle finger is the repose of impotent cowards.Either you have the courage of your convictions through logical argument and presentation of facts or admit to the foilbles of your present beliefs.Both Yabby and Pericles have on numerous occasions resorted to personal insults[ad homien] upon myself,bereft many times of any real substance in their retorts.They and now yourself seek to discredit argument by virtue of insult.Is this not the vice of racism?Racism seeks to discredit people by virtue of preconceived notions of inferority.

There is one thing you must realise,those in power use the game of left and right to keep us distracted from the real game of keeping the masses enslaved in debt.This present system of letting banks counterfeit money,destroys the value of our currency and creates poverty.

Arjay, I'm afraid your bluster doesn't impress anyone.

>>they and now yourself seek to discredit argument by virtue of insult.<<

This is pure transference.

Your "arguments" have been refuted time after time after tedious time. At which point you simply walk away, only to pop up with the same old tired, discredited ideas somewhere else.

Constant repetition of a falsehood doesn't turn it into a truth, I'm afraid.

Ever.

obama campain got $ 981,000 in campain donations from glodman/sax..two former sacz employeees are bringing on the next part of the scam..[cap and trade..read previous points to understand how sacz will clean up big time from this latest bubble

READ CHAPTERS 6 carbon tax..its explosive stuff

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html
Wednesday, June 24, 2009
Goldman Sachs: "Engineering Every Major Market Manipulation Since The Great Depression"

Posted by Tyler Durden at 2:58 PM
With a subtitle like "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression

and they're about to do it again"

run,..don't walk,to your nearest kiosk and buy Matt Taibbi's latest piece in Rolling Stone magazine.

One of the best comprehensive profiles of Government Sachs done to date...

Have a look at http://www.ronpaul.com/ Bernanke,"...an audit of the Fed would constsiute a take over by Congress and threaten the financial system,dollar and economy." So the financial system and economy is not already in a mess? Bernanke is using veilled threats to stop transparancy.

Over 55% of Congress now want an audit of the Federal Reserve and Pericles has the audacity to call it all lies.

its a matter of joining the dots
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html

Cronyism Still Alive Under Obama
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2795
Sept. Monetary Conference in Canada Shows Great Promise
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2735
Domestic Terrorism: Sabotage and the Saboteur
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2708

New Intel Bill Will Protect Speaker Pelosi Not Americans
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2696
NEW FED POWERS OMINOUS
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2662

Climate Bill Would Be Biggest Tax In History
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2768
Climate Bill Now Over 1,200 Pages
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2766

Immediate Action Required — Cap and Trade Vote in Hours
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2793
‘Global Warming’ Bill Set For Vote
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2791

ECB Injects $662 Billion into Banking System
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2747

Corporate Media Providing False View Of Iranian Post Election Protests
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2730
Ousted Shah’s son asks Israel to back rioters and help bring down the Iranian Government
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2724
Soros, the CIA, Mossad and the new media destabilization of Iran
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2720
Report: Siemens, Nokia aided Iran’s Web censorship
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2692

Is the Welfare State Fault of Christians?
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2611

Whose minding the Fed? That’s right…nobody.
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2789
HR 1207 to Audit the Federal Reserve is Gaining Momentum FAST!
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2431
Obama Warns not to challenge Official 9/11 Story
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2325

Obama gets billions for ‘pandemic’ Swine Flu
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2760
Arkansas State Health Department says mandatory vaccinations are constitutional
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2786

Wayne Madsen: Swine flu made in USA
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2782
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

Dear Arjay,

The middle finger actually is the response
that's usually given - out of sheer frustration,
when logic and reason have failed. It's
only used as a last resort - because it's
one message that everyone seems to understand.

You seem to be in denial about your obsession
with the US President - give the man a break.
He's inherited quite a mess, he's in an economic
crisis - he's only been in power since late January ,-
miracles don't happen overnight.

Make your next thread on a different topic if you
want to retain credibility.

And remember:

Laugh and the world laughs with you.
Cry - and they pay to watch!

Arjay, you're sufficiently tiresome without resorting to outright invention.

>>Over 55% of Congress now want an audit of the Federal Reserve and Pericles has the audacity to call it all lies.<<

What, exactly, am I calling "lies"?

I have never objected to the audit, except on grounds of the waste of money it represents.

But you, on the other hand, have been shamelessly misquoting Bernanke, haven't you?

Here's your careful piece of spin:

>>Bernanke,"...an audit of the Fed would constsiute a take over by Congress and threaten the financial system,dollar and economy."<<

That's actually a fib, Arjay.

Because here's Bernanke's statement in full:

"My concern about the legislation is that if the GAO is auditing not only the operational aspects of the programs and the details of the programs but making judgments about our policy decisions would effectively be a takeover of policy by the Congress and a repudiation of the Federal Reserve would be highly destructive to the stability of the financial system, the dollar and our national economic situation."

So as you can see, but tried to conceal, is that the concern is not the audit per se, which is perfectly normal and totally neutral.

But there is clearly an attempt by Paul to make policy judgements on the decisions that have been made.

Even you, I suspect Arjay, can detect a political ambush when you see it.

Or can you?

There's a thought.

60 Minutes recently ran an interesting story about human dna testing.
Its come a long way and will keep improving. Send a sample of your
dna to labs in Iceland in this case, and they can give you a prognosis
of your genetic risk of suffering from a whole whole of diseases,
from breast cancer to Alzheimers.

Interestingly the scientist being interviewed, also mentioned other
observations which they are making. For instance, they are finding
that high risk takers, people who jump out of planes and off cliffs
etc, have common genes which play a role in this behaviour.

Its my belief that one day, what they will find is that the Arjay's
and OUGs of this world, simply can't help themselves. There is
highly likely some genetic predisposition, which attracts these
indiviuals to conspiracy theories like magnets. I can't prove
it yet, but I think that it is highly likely.

Arjay, I read yours and OUGs last posts, about oil pipelines and
bin Laden, frankly these are old conspiracy theories, they've been
on the net for a long time, without any evidence. There comes
a time, when one has to say enough is enough, these posters don't
have a scrap of credibility left, but are simply living in their
own little fantasy worlds.

Rational thought won't work, for they will dream up something else
tomorrow, or read it on their favourite conspiracy theory website.

I'm at the point where I can see little but humour in you two,
for frankly I don't think that anyone but yourselves actually takes
your claims seriously.

allways glad to give you a laugh gabby..[and thanks for giving me one as well..[criminals hardly accept people putting the proof on the web],..some things are just there and stand unrebutted..

[unlike at this post..where we have not only one but three rebutting,..all by vairious forms of selective logic..rather unlikely to rebut the quoted facts..but on a surface level to the casual reader

it must be great to not have a questioning mind..lol..[i wish it was as simple as a genetic trait..but i did a lot of reading to get this angry..admittedly i was angry before that..[and the reading was only to learn..why..i was so angry..about getting sent to jail for letting a plant grow..[but for that i guess i would still be asleep as you lot are]if it wasnt for that wakeup call

its so easy rebutting..without giving valid reasoning..[ridicule and altheimer name calling..is hardly any valid rebuttal...[more like a systemised destraction,..by those emoting..rather than checking out the links

pericuil at least takes the time..to rebut an actual point..noting the first bit is pretty much as quoted..[and that no link to the rest was given..to see if the sumation..equates to the context of the shortened quote quoted

arjay..[as quoted by perculiour]<<..Bernanke,"...an audit of the Fed would constsiute a take over by Congress

pericules quote..<<but making judgments about our policy decisions would effectively be a takeover of policy by the Congress

arjay<<and threaten the financial system,dollar and economy."<<

percul<<..and a repudiation of the Federal Reserve would be highly destructive to the stability of the financial system, the dollar and our national economic situation.">>

That's actually an overtly deconstructive..distortion not a fib,..by who i will let others judge...

as are any other thinkers..free to judge the content of the other limeted..lol..''rebuttall''sss....of the simple facts and links presented here..by various posters

people need a wakeup call...[did any of you predict the collapse..we tried to tell you lot about..long before it began...

well here is the plan for the next stage..[READ PREVIOUS LINKS]..rebut them if you care..[can]

Sorry, oug, that's a fairly skinny defence, although I expect Arjay was really grateful for it.

>>pericuil at least takes the time..to rebut an actual point..noting the first bit is pretty much as quoted..[and that no link to the rest was given..to see if the sumation..equates to the context of the shortened quote quoted<<

Let's re-examine the important parts together. No gaps, no ellipsis. Straight word-for-word from both.

Arjay's pretend quote:

"an audit of the Fed would constsiute a take over by Congress"

Bernanke's actual statement:

"making judgments about our policy decisions would effectively be a takeover of policy by the Congress "

Spot the difference?

Arjay made it sound like Bernanke claimed that the audit itself would constitute a takeover by Congress.

Bernanke actually said, verbatim, that it was the judgements about policy decisions that would constitute a takeover by Congress.

So there is no weaseling around, it's there in black and white. Arjay quite deliberately created a falsehood in order to make a point.

And to exacerbate his crime, this was in the very same post in which he accused me of lying, by making up something that I hadn't said.

Chutzpah!

Incidentally, have you had a chance to swot up on elementary bookkeeping yet?

It would certainly help you understand the current financial situation, and the reasons behind the Fed's actions, far more than any amount of scouring the conspiracy sites.

What are the Fed afraid of? Let's have a proper audit with everyone putting all cards on the table.Bernanke is just hiding behind the veiled tradition of their absolute power.Obama giving all these new powers to the Fed is denying the US people any say in the running of their country.This is is not democracy!

How anyone in their wildest dreams could back such an unjust system is beyond me.The US is now totally ruled by the Corporates and we only have to look at how the James Hardy Group have treated asbestos victims to realise that morality and fairness does not enter into Corporate decision making.It is law of the jungle and survival of the fittest.

When Ron Paul reaches 290 members of Congressional support it will happen.There are many who suspect that the Fed has being creating much more than the $2 trillion involved in bailouts.It could be an extra $7 trillion which the Fed is using to bail out it's mates and buy up cheap assets caused by their own incompetence.They could well be intentionally starving the real economy of credit in order the further drive down the value of productive businesses.

Perhaps Pericles and other vultures like this scenario since thay are cashed up ready to buy in at bargain basement prices as happened during the Great Depression.We are seeing the greatest redistribution of wealth in 80 yrs.It is a travesty of monumental proportions and people like Pericles endorses it in the name of market opportunity and their avarice.Judge for yourself.

Arjay, the Fed could indeed have done nothing last September, just
folded its arms, when the global financial system was on the
verge of collapse.

The result would have been quite spectacular! As one bank dragged
down the next bank, for they all owe each other money, given that
they trade with one another, most banks would have closed their
doors. With no banks open, most companies would have closed their
doors, unable to pay employees. Your little card would have
given you nothing, when you went to remove your money.

So hundreds of millions of people would have been left paralysed,
no food, no fuel, no anything. Hardly a great situation.

Jack Welsh, former top CEO of GE for many years, so a fairly
bright kid, credits Bernanke with having rescued the global
financial system from that kind of meltdown and says that
eventually he will be seen as a hero for his achievements.

Whatever Bernanke and the Fed did, was clearly worth it
for all of us.

Frankly, if they created an extra trillion or not, hardly
matters, when you look at the big picture of all this.

gabby quote<<Whatever Bernanke and the Fed did,was worth it/for all of us.>>..not all of us...there are some..who got millions of times more..[who now..are even more ready to snap up the whole of the cake with carbon credit derivitives trading

the point is gabby..the fed dont want an audit,..your willing to forgive and forget..[but have not the slightest incling of what your forgiving]...just so we can keep up the pretense..that the crime was for us all..[it wernt..for all of us..it was for a select..few..

who by and large..are ready to do it..all over again..[in case you missed how they speculated up the price of juice]
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html

and very soon...THEY corner the market..in their new govt/gift..of carbon credits..[creating/setting up the next bust]..the carbon credit scam...is their next bubble..[its all new money/credit..

we will pay on everything..we buy and sell..[a new tax..paid not to govt..but diectly into big buisness/speculators pockets]

thats a trillion dollar tax..EVERY YEAR...from those with money able to afford to spend it..[as more go bust..that means you will be paying it as well..[and you cant get it back in your tax..[its not tax deductable

<<Frankly,if they created an extra trillion or not,hardly
matters,when you look at the big picture of all this.>>..but even govt ISNT ALLOWED TO LOOK AT THE BOOKS,...its sort of a minimum accountability...that govt KNOW...what happend...

noting china is cashing in..their us bonds/dollars..[because they dont want to be left holding the bag..of hyperinflating us $]...dont get deffensive..think

pericules..yes i know accounting...do you under stand why we audit the books?

i couldnt give two hoots about yesterdays man..[beyanki]..im more concerned about the two ss-leighmen.sax nurds..running the next scam[allready passed one house]..

cap and trade..[means ever decreasing carbon permits..[meaning ever increasing price..[for the ever fewer permits..[till,..one day..no carbon polution/credit../permitted at all.

.[how you going to breath]..[ok thats extreem..but think what happens by..legitimate supply restriction..[this is legislated..capped..then EVERYONE MUST reduce our carbon output..or buy a permit/tax..

[at speculated../auction type/style/..demand prices,..all the worse because next year..less permits WILL be issued..[for free..to the worst poluters..[getting them for free]..but their cost born by u+me/...we/us..not them doing the poluting

Yabby says,"Well what's an extra trillion ?" This means that a trillion created by the Fed dilutes the currency value of every worker in the US by $7,000.00.It puts them in more poverty while the Corporates rape and pillage more of their assets.The US worker is poor enough without this Bernanke millstone around their necks.

What Pericles and others don't realise is that your wealth is in your people and when the collapse gets to an economic tipping point,whereby human capital is destroyed,there will be no redemption.Money or so called capital will be worthless.

If credit or money does not reach the real economy soon,there will be a collapse of productivity and thus shortages.As the counterfeit money that the Fed creates kicks in ,hyperinflation will destroy our economies.We will have too much money chasing too few goods.This is the road that the Fed has now set us upon.It happened in the Great Depression and we now have worse conditions in terms of debt and the lack of manufacturing that enables real productivity to service our needs.Our service industry caters for wants and this relys on discretionary spending.They will evaporate.

Arjay, you still don't get it.

Lets say that the average worker did lose 7000$. It is chicken feed
in comparison to what they would have lost, if the entire system
had collapsed. That is the reality.

Now the average American has to start looking at themselves and
bare some responsibility for their actions. For it was the average
American who appointed Bush/Cheney as Prez/VP, not once but twice.
They showed bad judgement, now they are paying a price. Thats
life.

It was Bush/Cheney who threw away the rule books, it was Bush/Cheney
who decided that regulation of the financial system was not
required. It was Cheney who made it clear, that the US $ was not
America's problem, but the rest of the world'd problem.

So why should the average American now not be responsible for their
actions?

As it happens, Bernanke's plan is so far working, banks are
repaying their Tarp funds and the Fed can reign in money supply
at any time, once things normalise. It can do that with a snap
of its fingers, at any time, in any amount. So your concerns about
hyperinflation due to too much money, are unfounded.

What will eventually cause inflation, goes way beyond the US economy.
For as China and other countries increase oil use, at some time,
oil prices will sky rocket again and oil affects the cost of
everything. That will drive global inflation, if anything does.

How does the fed withdraw excess liquidity? They increase interest rates in an economy with hyper-inflation,high unemployment,and low productivity.It is a recipe for disaster.

What are you and the Fed afraid of Pericles?Just have the audit and we shall see where all the debt money that the US tax payer is indentured to pay is going.The tax payer has the right to know this in a democracy.

Kevin Rudd has just canned the Choice Magazine's version of "Grocery Watch" before it was even trialled.I think that it looked like being too effective and the likes of Wollies and West Farmers have had a word in Kevin's ear.

The power of the corporates is enormous and the US Federal Reserve is the most powerful private institution on the planet.It is time they were made accountable.Watch the 4th July celebrations in the US and you will see a revolution in the minds of the US people taking root.

Geez, Louise.

You simply don't listen, do you Arjay?

>>What are you and the Fed afraid of Pericles?<<

How many times do I have to repeat...

"I have never objected to the audit, except on grounds of the waste of money it represents."

And Bernanke is only concerned that it is turned into a political circus, as opposed to a factual analysis of the financial ins-and-outs.

So kindly stop pretending that I am "afraid" of an audit.

And it is about time you stopped pretending that you have the slightest understanding of what you are talking about.

>>How does the fed withdraw excess liquidity? They increase interest rates in an economy with hyper-inflation,high unemployment,and low productivity.It is a recipe for disaster.<<

Actually, what the Fed does in order to reduce liquidity is to sell Treasury securities. This replaces the money that the Banks have sloshing around the system, with IOUs.

It is the precise opposite of boosting liquidity, where they buy the securities in exchange for putting money in the Banks' vaults.

Which, incidentally, is what you were complaining about before, when you were moaning about the trillions of new money that the Fed had "created".

I hope you are following, because here comes the interesting bit.

When you put extra liquidity into the economy, you run the risk of - guess what?

Inflation.

That's right. With more money chasing the same amount of goods, inflation occurs.

So what is the danger from soaking up that liquidity?

No, it's not inflation, but the opposite. When there is too little money chasing the same amount of goods, prices... fall.

Incidentally, the US economy does not have "hyper-inflation,high unemployment,and low productivity".

So having got practically every fact wrong in your assertion, what, Arjay, is your point?

I did not say it presently does have hyper-inflation.It will if the Fed continues to create cyber money.They have doubled the amount of money in the US economy in 12mnths.Real unemployment is probably over 14%.When the Fed issues securities,who buys them and how can they possibly issue enough marketable securities to soak up excess liquidity?

The US has lost a lot of their manufacturing industry and in reality like us,don't have real productivity to fall back on.Service industries dependant upon discretionary spending does not reflect needs, hence their existence as a viable economy is tenuous at best.They have a pop 15 times ours without all the resources or the energy.Perhaps Alaska has vast hidden oil reserves,but I doubt it.

If you agree with an audit,then this is a change of heart which is good.The US people need to get back to te basic of their constitution and the ideals of a free people and free market place.Presently under Obama we have the exact opposite.The Patriot Act should have been the first of Bush's debacles to,go but not so under Obama.

If the US devolves into a totalitarian state,then we too will not be far behind.Germany 85 yrs ago had a democracy but one person soon changed that.Do not assume that modern technology gives us automatic immunity,since it can be used very easily against individual freedoms,as well a tool for it's promulgation.Study carefully the Ron Paul message.He does not exhibit the fanfare of Obama's delivery but his beliefs are backed by the wisdom of those who formulated the US Constitution.

I hope you have an efficient rear-view mirror, Arjay, with all that back-pedalling.

>>I did not say it presently does have hyper-inflation.It will if the Fed continues to create cyber money<<

This is what you wrote:

>>How does the fed withdraw excess liquidity? They increase interest rates in an economy with hyper-inflation,high unemployment,and low productivity.<<

You are actually closer than you realise to understanding this whole shemozzle, Arjay. One more step, and you could be there.

The Fed - along with the US Government - is treading a tightrope here, and they are well aware of it. Too much additional liquidity, and the spectre of inflation looms. Too little - or a premature mop-up of the dollars sloshing around - and stagnation/deflation awaits.

And that ain't pleasant.

Just ask the Japanese.

>>They have doubled the amount of money in the US economy in 12mnths.<<

Not sure you have the figures correct here. It would help if you provided sources. Here are the actual numbers.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/Current/

>>When the Fed issues securities,who buys them and how can they possibly issue enough marketable securities to soak up excess liquidity?<<

That's a very good question. You are really getting the hang of this, aren't you?

The answer is that the Banks buy them (i.e. give money to the Fed in exchange for securities that earn interest) as opposed to lending the same money to us folks. The idea being that the risk/reward of Treasuries is better than your taking out a mortgage.

So instead of the money staying in the economy and buying you a house, it gets stashed away. In reality, of course, it is merely extinguishing the debt that was incurred when they pushed the money out the door in the first place.

It's all quite logical, orderly, and not at all scary.

>>If you agree with an audit,then this is a change of heart which is good<<

Come now, that was a cheap shot, and you know it. I have never been against it, just annoyed at the scare tactics around it.

Which worked.

As you, Arjay, have amply demonstrated.

*The US has lost a lot of their manufacturing industry and in reality like us,don't have real productivity to fall back on*

Not really Arjay, the nature of US industry has changed. 20 years ago, Silicon Valley hardly existed. Now every time a computer is
sold, Microsoft take your money. When you do a search Google take
your money, in an indirect fashion, but it is billions, through
charging advertisers. And so on.

Yes, making toasters and polluting industries have moved to China,
but that means that China is now also a customer, for our raw materials or for US technology. They buy Boeings for their airlines,
etc.

The Fed only needs to send an email to all banks, that they are going
to increase the level of reserves that banks need to hold and
instantly money will be pulled from the lending market and banked
with the Fed, so limiting inflation. The Fed and other reserve
banks have the power to do that.

Pericles I seem to remember you making excuses for one Elizabeth Coleman the US Govts Chief inspector for the Board of Governors of the Fed.You suggested that Alan Grayson was intimidating her and that she was over awed by the moment hence could not give a coherent response to any of his questions.The reality is that Coleman the Govt representative is just the tool of the Fed.They say jump,and she asks ,"How high?"

I was not back pedalling,merely qualifying the fact that hyper-inflation is a real possibility.Don't try to put your asumptions into my line of logic.

I have noticed a shift in attitude in both you and Yabby.Your defence of the Fed is not so intense in recent posts but your egos will not permit a loss of face.

Winning the argument is far less important than winning the war for freedom and true democracy.We are losing our freedoms due to attacks from Corporate and Govt avarice.Throughout history people have chosen death over slavery.The debt slaves in the US are on a mission to take back their country.End the Fed movement now has serious momentum.

There's a reason for everything, Arjay.

>>I have noticed a shift in attitude in both you and Yabby.Your defence of the Fed is not so intense in recent posts<<

Given that you appear to have accepted the reality of the Fed's role, and consequently have stopped making the wild and wacky accusations that you began with, there is far less to become intense about.

I don't expect you to actually thank me or Yabby for the basic financial education we have provided over the past few weeks. But we can tell from your silence that the message is getting through.

Which is thanks enough, really.

*I have noticed a shift in attitude in both you and Yabby.Your defence of the Fed is not so intense in recent posts but your egos will not permit a loss of face.*

Nonsense Arjay. I simply take a very different understanding of
all these things, then you do and I do my homework.

The Fed, as it is set up today, happened for good reasons, read
your history. You are free to jump to your conspiracy theories,
but I am a little more objective then that.

Some Americans right now, are running around trying to blame
all sorts of things for their predicament. Its a human foible,
it was never us, or our bad judgement, it was the rest of the world!

Speak to a bloke who goes broke in business. It seemingly was never
his bad judgement, it was the economy, or the Govt, or the weather,
or whatever.

They have just locked up Mr Madoff for 150 years, as he was a crook
and robbed people of billions. Some people went to the SEC, who
were meant to check on Mr Madoff. They gave them a little map,
showed them how he did it. The SEC put it in a drawer and ignored
it. George Bush appointed Mr Cox to run the SEC, put pointed out
that regulation was not required. Americans voted for George
Bush and his bad judgement. But of course now they do not want to
carry their share of the blame, but search for smoking guns.

The Fed is an easy target

extracted from
http://www.infowars.com/banksters-love-cap-and-trade/

Obama,..who was instrumental in helping set up the Chicago Climate Exchange http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/9629

for his political cronies like Al Gore, who already has a company which he uses to buy carbon credits from himself http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/251232
and the smartest guys in the room
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zMakN-EMLg
who helped concieve this enron scam
http://cei.org/gencon/019,02898.cfm
and the same boys club all ready plundered 12 trillion
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=armOzfkwtCA4&refer=worldwide

and who had made multi-million dollar investments in companies developing carbon tracking software that will be essential to the new carbon-swindle economy.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/11607

the entire idea of “cleaning” the atmosphere of carbon dioxide seems a bit ridiculous when you realize that by historical levels we are living in a CO2-starved environment,
http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/historical_CO2.htm

that global surface temperatures are dropping,
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

that global ocean temperatures are dropping,
http://exposingtheleft.blogspot.com/2007/09/global-ocean-temperatures-drop-to.html

that key proponents of the manmade global warming theory have been caught faking data to support their arguments,
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ipcc-scientists-caught-producing-false-data-to-push-global-warming.html

that Arctic sea ice is expanding,
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/02/15/arctic-ice.html
and that sea levels are not rising.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html

But why let actual science get in the way of a good scare story,
http://mediamonarchy.blogspot.com/2009/06/another-bill-congress-didnt-read-coming.html
especially when that scare story can be used to create a new trillion dollar industry for the banksters?
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html