This has got to be seen to believed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsTEn-fcjU0

Elizabeth Coleman is the Inspector general of the US Federal Reserve.Alan Grayson a Democrat Congressman is questioning her on where all the tax payer debt money has gone in the last 8 months.A total of $9 trillion is unaccounted for and the Inspector cannot even account for a small portion of this.$9 trillion represents $30,000.00 debt for every person in the US.

Imagine you took out a $30,000.00 loan from bank who took control of this money and you are legally obliged to pay back both the principal and interest even if it is mismanaged or lost.For every family this is a debt of $120,000.00.

This is the reality the US people faces,but they haven't a clue about the machinations of their Govt and a private group of banks called the Federal Reserve.Most Americans think the Fed is an arm of Govt.The Inspector General is supposed to keep them honest,but she obiviously has not the power or the intention of investigating anything.

We should all take a keen interest in what is happening in the US,since their folly could mean our demise.

I know highly educated people who just don't want to know about this.The reality apparently,is just too harsh for them to contemplate and the facts pass over them like a shroud of impossibility.

Just like a smoker lives in denial of cancer,so do we who live in our comfort zones,re-assured by past certainties.

That’s a shocker Arjay – The US Federal Inspector General’s ineptitude, I mean.

The parallel that immediately springs to my mind is probably not something that you or other monetarily-inclined people would think of first up or at all – the extraordinarily inept way in which our capital in Australia is being consumed while we are at the same time placing an ever-higher demand upon our non-renewable and potentially renewable resource base, and not improving our value-adding industries.

In other words – the manner in which we are going in exactly the opposite direction to achieving sustainability. That is; economic, social, environmental and every other sort of sustainability.

I bet if we were to ask Rudd or Swan, or Turnbull or Hockey a few probing questions about this and how we might change the financial direction of Australian society in the near future in order to address this enormous and ever-greater imbalance that threatens to bring Australian society down, they’d come up as blank as Elizabeth Coleman.

I’d posit that this aspect of the big-picture financial situation is vastly more important for us in Oz than the extraordinary mismanagement that we’ve witnessed in the US, UK and elsewhere.

Arjay, we've had this discussion before. And one thing became crystal clear during those interchanges, and that is that you haven't the faintest idea how money works, or how economies work.

What does attract you, like a magpie to cheap and shiny baubles, is the whiff of conspiracy, and the political posturings of folk who enjoy stirring the conspiracy pot.

This is nothing more than a piece of political theatre.

For a start, where is the evidence of the "nine trillion dollars"?

The Congressman refers to a Bloomberg article. I suspect that this one may the culprit. (I'm even doing your research work for you Arjay, since you are so wrapped up in your conspiracy theories to bother)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=armOzfkwtCA4&refer=home

There's a lot of useful information in it, but here's a key pointer.

"New pledges from the Fed, the Treasury Department and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. include $1 trillion for the Public-Private Investment Program, designed to help investors buy distressed loans and other assets from U.S. banks."

Note carefully the word "pledge"

This is probably the only level at which you might understand what is going on here, but it's worth a try.

"Distressed loans" were one of the major causes of the present crisis.

If they had all been allowed to go bad at the same time, the banking system would have failed, and the resulting depression would have made the nineteen-thirties look like boom-times.

Rather than allow that to happen, governments around the world have elected to provide a backstop facility.

Remember, the debt was originally incurred by people, not by Banks. The bail-out is designed to help these people.

I know you won't understand it, but here's last week's formal Fed position statement

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/Current/

Once the system has settled down a little, there will no doubt be a thorough audit of this balance sheet, which probably still contains a few holes.

But the idea that these trillions of dollars have somehow disappeared into someone's pocket, is laughable.

The hole was already dug. These commitments are simply what is needed to fill it back up again.

We at the Dallas Fed believe the total is over $99 trillion,”
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2112

In a sobering holiday interview with C-SPAN,President Obama boldly told Americans:“We are out of money.”
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashocs.htm
C-SPAN host Steve Scully broke from a meek Washington press corps with probing questions for the new president.

SCULLY:You know the numbers,$1.7 trillion debt,a national deficit of $11 trillion.At what point do we run out of money?

OBAMA:Well,we are out of money now.We are operating in deep deficits,
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2093

The US dollar is not Russia’s basic reserve currency anymore.The euro-based share of reserve assets of Russia’s Central Bank increased to the level of 47.5 percent as of January 1,2009 and exceeded the investments in dollar assets,which made up 41.5 percent
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/russia-dumps-dollar-as-reserve-currency.html

see the trend
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/china-and-brazil-team-up-to-end-dollars.html
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2086
http://revolutionarypolitics.com/?p=822
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/026931.html#more
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1879735,00.html

We might be making some progress here. Not sure, but it's possible.

oug provides a couple of beams of light on the topic.

"We at the Dallas Fed believe the total is over $99 trillion"

And provides a link to the estimate that describes what the authors believe is "the 'very big hole' in unfunded pension and health-care liabilities".

Yet another case of non-existent money.

A warning, of course, that commitments made by governments (who tend to be the biggest culprits in unfunded super) and by businesses have a tendency to come back and bite.

But at some future time.

So far, not a single trillion has actually been turned into a real debt.

When it does, it will happen over time, because a) not everyone will claim their pension entitlements simultaneously and b) not everyone gets sick at the same time.

The other possibility is that those commitments will not be honoured.

Voilà. I just "saved" $99 trillion.

Does that make the difference between debt and money a little clearer?

President Obama is of course absolutely right when he says "we don't have any money".

They have debt.

I don't have any money either, but I have debt in the form of a substantial overdraft.

But just like me, America can continue to drive cars and catch buses and trains, still buy food at the supermarket, still treat themselves to the odd beer.

Now the purists, wishful thinkers, those of the Austrian School - and of course the Chinese - are saying "wouldn't it be nicer if we all lived within our means?"

The answer is "quite possibly. But instead of the steady increase in our prosperity over the past fifty years, we would still be stuck in a 1950's style economy. Low investment (no borrowings ahead of earnings, you see) and low growth go hand in hand.

As far as “living within our means”, going back to the gold standard, embracing the Austrian School or whatever is concerned, the train has left the station.

If that's where you want to go, you can't get there from here.

thanks pericules/you..summed up the case..re/debt..[but]..missing where the cash went...noting..the value is fixed in us/dollar debt,

its a simple matter..to hyper-inflate..the us/dollar..[then]..when one billion.barely..equates to a loaf of bread..[like germany/zimbabwe]..to reinstall..the deflated/dollars and the books are ballanced

i..put the same-case to krudd 6 mths ago..[and noted we been signing our mineral-exports in these american-fiat/dollars..[that when hyperinflated,means were contracted to supply real-minerals for these hyperinflating/us..$..'s

i reminded him..that our debt-free/status was hardly of any merrit when we have been doing darsterdly things..to retain parity with the usa $..[talked specificlly about currency-trades/swaps..we been doing and the billions..[we]..spend..buying us-arms/planes etc..all aimed at keeping this parity

when usa falls..so will we..[our relitive debt-free/status..thus means the people got nothing..yet are saddled with all the burdon's[thus we got..the handout..[and the debt,that the former/banker[turn-bull into votes]..is using as a big-stick to beat the crudd out of k-rudd

but that dosnt cover/where did the money go?..[and turnbull[into votes]..certainly is doing everything..to see we dont discuss it..outside his narrow/limitations..[to beat up krudd]

it is of little suprise..that they knew it was comming..[howhard]even put in his 20 billion tax cut/and govt pension/sceme...to ensure/the krudd/govt..only goes one term...

i see the lie[of co2 based global-warning]..as the clear lie it is..[this globalist-tax..was first proposed..by the bilderburgers 50 years ago..[as well as thier now fullfilled/plan to subvert the sovereign/currencies..of the eu-nations..into the eu/currency unit,

not controled by the countries/but the private franchise;..the fed reserves/banking-cartels...the fall of the yanki will be sub-verted by the introduction of the amero..[that is all ready printed]..

but the debt/theft of the yanki/dollar who wears that..[my opinion is the wealthy pay it..via returning death-duties..[near]..the first thing howhard removed..giving us fuel/cigarette-taxes and gst etc]..ie taxes..paid by the poor..[not the rich]

the fuel-tax was a great earner..[and its us/price..shortly will go through the roof....its price..in the falling yanki-dollar...lol..[thanks to howhard linkage of it to the signapure/preneum-price]linked to the soon to be hyper/inflating yanki/dollar

we need to be..revealing this live time..prostitution/rape in advance[its time people knew the mineral/boom was a fuel;tax excise/boom]..not a..'mining'../boom..[and realised that carbon-tax is for multinationals..to trade..for huge commisions..[nothing to do with saving the planet]

I like it.Anything Pericles disagrees with is a conspiracy theory.If your perceptions are so obiviously self evident Pericles,why do you persist so in ad hominem attacks on myself.

Let others view this video clip and make up their own minds.Your multitudinous,frantic postings hint of some frantic coverup.

Bloomberg is part of the problem,they profit from they hyperactivity of the market.

E. Coleman the Inspector general of the Board of Governors of the Fed, "We are the inspector General for the Board of Governors and we have direct oversight over the board's programs and operations,an are also able to work out board delegated functions.WE DO NOT HAVE JURISTICTION TO DIRECTLY GO OUT AND AUDIT THE FEDERAL RESERVE SPECIFICALLY."

What more needs be said? The Board of Governors and the Inspector General of the Fed are nothing more than window dressing.They will do as they are told and a private group of banks continue to own the US currency and thus control the US economy and Government.

Those who profit from the share market are now frantic that this cosy arrangement may come to an end.The creation of inflationary money from nothing by the Fed feeds the share market thus taking wealth from the real productive economy in which most citizens work.

It is a symbotic cosy relationship that in the end destroys real productivity.This is why we have a rapidly dimisishing middle class even with both parteners working.

Arjay, your last post suggests to me, that you don't even have a clue,
what role the sharemarket actually plays. Basically its a place
for companies to raise capital, so that they can expand and in the
process create profits and jobs.

Just today I sent off a cheque, for a Santos rights issue. They need
money to build those LNG terminals, one in Gladstones, one in PNG.

Who do they turn to when bank finance is limited, or too expensive?
Their dear old shareholders of course, this time in total 3 billion
$. Thats either super funds or mums and dads, putting their money
on the line and taking a risk, which results in exports, infrastructure, jobs, all positive for Australia's future.

You really need to learn the basics of economics, before you mouth
off too much, for conspiracy theories is all that you have come
up with so far

Sorry Arjay, I couldn't resist. This one's an absolute cracker.

>>Anything Pericles disagrees with is a conspiracy theory.<<

Nice defence. When your back is to the wall, mount an attack.

Unfortunately you spoil the effect entirely, by immediately invoking... conspiracy...

>>Your multitudinous,frantic postings hint of some frantic coverup.<<

Ooops!

Then, just to make sure, you dive in again.

>>Bloomberg is part of the problem,they profit from they hyperactivity of the market<<

Yep, Arjay, me and Bloomberg. Nothing but conspiracy.

Do yourself a massive favour, and learn the basics before waffling on about cosy relationships and a diminishing middle class (funny, I thought you'd approve of the latter)...

I notice, by the way, that you still haven't answered a single direct question, on any money-related topic.

But that would require checking facts, wouldn't it? And we can't let those interfere with a good conspiracy...

Good on you Arjay for starting threads like this.

This sort of stuff is of great importance and is very difficult to properly comprehend for just about anyone who is not an expert…and then even the experts’ views differ enormously.

Most people choose to just ignore it. Perhaps those that do participate need to be a little more respectful of each other.

Respect has to be earned, Ludwig.

>>Perhaps those that do participate need to be a little more respectful of each other.<<

So far, Arjay's contributions to the various threads that concern international finance have been short on fact, and long on fantasy.

If that changes, we might just be able to have a meaningful dialogue on what is a very difficult problem. Petty political grandstanding does not further anyone's understanding, and is mostly look-it-me posturing anyway.

As it happens, I am very concerned about the shape of the recovery from the financial crises that are unfolding across the world. The US and Europe will both emerge with less financial authority, that is for certain.

That is interesting enough from a global perspective, but what matters more to the average punter is the longterm impact on their earnings and savings. Rabbiting on about the antics of self-serving Congressmen and the evils of debt doesn't advance either discussion one iota.

The sooner we can get away from "Fed-mania" and talk about real issues, the better.

perecules whats the issue..[you dont like audit?]

whats the worry about govt knowing what the fed balancesheet really is
why musnt govt know what the trillions of off balance sheet transacrions are?

whats the secret?

how come govt dont have the legal juristiction to audit the fed..[to give normal govt oversights over what is commonly believed to be a govt instrument..

[but is in fact a private franchise to issue/create money,at the whim of those selling it for ursury]bankers..

the qustions asked at the vidio are simply questions..
[what frightens you about it so?

Pericles:

Why do you have to immediately accuse Arjay of "political theatre" and "stirring the conspiracy pot"?

No doubt that your own mindset tells you that the "Bildenberg Society" is a ladies knitting group that are simply planning an afternoon picnic for all the underprivileged of the world?

Arjay has posed a question that is definitely deserving of a sensible answer, and he is quite right regarding the long term affects of this US fiscal policy, which in itself will flow on to Australia in one form or another.

It amazes me that people like you cannot simply answer a question with a straightforward reply instead of resorting to ridicule and "put down" in an apparent desire to display your own perceived mental superiority!

Big Banks Have ALREADY Killed Reforms
extracted/from
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/big-banks-have-already-killed-reform-of.html

Many mainstream pundits are claiming that a wave of regulation and reform of the banks and the financial industry is on its way.
http://www.google.com/search?q=wave+of+regulation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

On the other hand,some alternative news writers are saying that real reform may never really happen(see this,for example).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/everyone-agrees-we-need-t_b_207424.html

Indeed,Obama has appointed to most of the key economic posts the people most responsible for deregulation in the first place.

In fact,..in at least one area..one of the most important causes of the financial crisis..reform has already been defeated.

By way of background,he derivatives industry has volunteered ..once again)to regulate itself.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/03/self-regulation-of-derivatives-industry.html

As Newsweek noted April 10th,the big boys were using bailout money to aggressively lobby against the regulation of credit default swaps:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/193360

Major Wall Street players are digging in against fundamental changes...At issue is..the firms may soon be recapitalized and have a lot more sway in Washington—all of it courtesy of their supporters in the Obama administration...

The financial industry isn't leaving anything to chance,..Its goal: to stand against heavy regulation of.."over-the-counter"..derivatives, in other words customized contracts that are traded off an exchange...

Geithner's new rules would allow the over-the-counter market to boom again,orchestrated by global giants that will continue to be.."too big to fail"..(they may have to be rescued again someday,..And most of it will still occur largely out of sight of regulated exchanges...
http://dprogram.net/2009/05/26/msm-ohio-counties-want-to-use-siezed-assets-to-fund-services/

The old culture is reasserting itself with a vengeance..
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/more-proof-that-credit-default-swaps.html
in other words,as opposed to the insiders who are still running the show.
http://wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-25.htm
http://revolutionarypolitics.com/?p=840

And today,Treasury gave the financial giants exactly what they wanted.As Bloomberg writes in an article entitled.."Wall Street Derivatives Proposals Adopted in Treasury Overhaul":
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aMMeY6OodQW4&refer=home

Excellent point, Crackup

Now Pericles, stop with attacking the man and start answering Arjay's reasonable question. Oh, and start earning a little respect, man.

Thank you

I'll certainly try, Fractelle.

>>Now Pericles, stop with attacking the man and start answering Arjay's reasonable question. Oh, and start earning a little respect, man<<

Which question?

So far, the only question Arjay has posed is "What more needs be said?"

I have answered that one.

Lots.

He makes many "statements", though.

>>A total of $9 trillion is unaccounted for and the Inspector cannot even account for a small portion of this.<<

I asked where this information can be found. No answer.

On another thread he stated

>>The amount of money in the US has doubled in 8 months<<

I asked where this information can be found. No answer.

>>The US Fed is an abomination whose power must come to an end!<<

His justification for this view?

>>the Corporate Elites now control the USA<<

>>people who have and are still making a fortune off the creation of legalised counterfeit money by our banking system<< etc.

But once again, no facts.

>>I would not believe anything the US Federal Reserve Says ,since they are responsible for this debacle<<

Arjay seems to be convinced that there is a bunch of bankers hiding away in the Fed, churning out dollar bills in order to corrupt the system.

I have tried to explain that the Banks - while they have been lax, negligent, greedy and stupid - are not the instigators of our problems. We are. Their laxity, negligence etc. just happens to aggregate (and to an extent aggravate) the problem, not create it.

In the same way, the Fed is reacting to the problems with the banking system, and creating more debt to ensure the entire system doesn't collapse in on itself.

Instead of intelligent responses, I get:

>>Pericles [is] driven by an agenda who want to see the return of the share market bubble financed by bankster counterfeiting of our currency... Pericles,you like many others have been making easy money on the back of real productive capacity...Your moral compass is buried deep beneath your banking shares<<

Now, what was that about "attacking the man"?

gabby<<Just today I sent off a cheque,..for a Santos rights issue...>>..wow sending off good money for a rights issue...wow we are impressed..lol..

rights issue..<<..An issue of new shares to existing shareholders who have the right,but not the obligation,..to purchase new shares issued by the corporation at a preset price,..usually below the market price>>..wow BELOW the current price..[that gets further diluted by the new share issue..lol....yet banks..[the fools..lol]..refused the gift..boy are the bankers dummies..lol..great thing your so clever..lol

<<Who do they turn to..when bank finance is limited,..or too expensive?>>..intrest has never been lower....but your SMARTER than any bank..lol..imagine the fools turning down a two bil debt..that only dilutes the value of their egsisting share..hence the 'discount'

<<...Their dear old shareholders..Thats either super funds..or mums and dads,..putting their money on the line and taking a risk>>..ok lets see..[some recent failures the most recent is 47,000 [mum and pop-'shareholders'..losing their trust/cash by gambeling on GREAT southern,...

or the gamblers/sorry[promise of share holders]..who lost thier shirts/houses on allco..kleenmaid..storm..timbercorp..enron or bernoff[the list gets a bit extensive,..but one third fail in good times]..how many failed in the great depression

yep..there is a sucker born every minute...lol..banks dont think the risk is worth the PROMISED return/payoff..[from the investment of 2 BILLION right?]...

its just a shame the superfunds are gambeling with the mug punters compulsory...super..''con-tribut-ions''..its not enough our super real value halved..[the plan is to scam it all]..[ok im being mean 2/3 rds]

UOG, I seldom bother to decipher your mumbo jumbo posts these days,
but I made a bit of an effort with the last one.

It shows once again, your complete lack of understanding of our
financial/economic system, so in your case, best you keep that
money under your mattress and don't tell nobody! Conspiracy theories
will keep you amused for the rest of the time and at least keep
you off the streets :)

As a matter of interest, interest rates for housing loans are low
due to political reasons, not so for business. Some REITs are
having to pay roughly twice as much as they paid a year ago, due
to the contraction of international money markets. To put it
another way, our banks simply don't have the funds to service the
business sector's requirements. What they do make available is
from overseas, at a much higher price.

Strenghtening company balance sheets is indeed a wise move for
1st rate companies, in times of uncertainty, but all that is way
over your head, fair enough.

At present, investment in energy stocks, which are presently quite
cheap due to low energy prices, is not such a bad idea. For when
the price of oil goes through the roof once again in a couple of
years, those share prices generally follow the oil price and we'll
be back to listening to Arjay and UOG complaining about what they
have to pay for gas/oil.

But you just keep checking on that money under your mattress UOG,
for investing in things that you do not understand, would be
foolish indeed

A Pericles' reaction upon viewing The Inspector General[E Coleman] on another thread "Abraham Lincoln Predicted this Collapse".
Pericles,"Poor lady,ambushed by someone asking questions that pluck numbers form the air." This one sentence says a lot.Pericles is an apologist for the Fed.What a lame reply!

It is the Inspector's job along with the Board of Governors to know what the debt is and how much Lehman Bros bail out cost.

I remember Yabby also in the past saying that the Fed was a quasi Govt body whose legitimacy could not be questioned.This observation is now shot to pieces.

After viewing this video,every US Congressman should be calling for an immediate audit.Their very reluctance reflects the power and the infiltration of the Fed in all areas of Govt and the Corporate field.

There is a strong movement amongst the young in the universities in the US to see the end of this abominable system.

As I have said before,if I were to counterfeit $22 million to equal the number of people in Australia,it dilutes the wealth of every australian by $1.00 per person.This is known as inflation.It is alright for those who have assets that go up in value with inflation,but for those who cannot save enough to play the game,they lose out both in wages and the little savings they have in the bank.

When our banks counterfeit money it is called monetary policy.Pericles calls it "capital adaquacy".[It is legalised theft Pericles]In reality it dilutes all our wealth with the exception of those elites who play the game.By creating counterfeit money the banks are stealing from the rest of society and to add insult to injury,they loan it back to us at interest.

i have studied the..'market'...gabby..and its basiclly a..pyramid-sceme..[thats not to say people dont make money]..but the big issue its not really their money..[someone has to lose and it seems that the easy-money..turns into a trap..for many]

see how mugs got conned into mortgauging their homes..leveraging wether stock will rise or fall..[im noting banks allways have the first bite of any remaining cash..[and stuff the workers long-service or those having ordenary/shares]

the workers are forced to subsidize the stock-gamblers..[not getting even the benifits..of holding shares..[like discounts..when buying at woolies..if holding woolies shares]..add to that their super/providers..often dont actually hold shares..[only the promise of the gain..if the share goes..according as they bet

yeah..lol..you might be different..[and be one of the few that has shares and actually holds a preferance share]..or..you might be one of the mugs..who trust their broker to hold them for them..lol.

i posted..about the imf/holding-commpany..[holding actual shares to the value of 24 trillion..,these shares are..'held'..by this little known/shelf-company..only officially..[by having the right/to settle all trades..[but as i posted..their shares are held as surity..for a loan of 23.5 trillion/debt owed to the bankers..running the fed

you can ridicule all you like,..the facts are/your betting the value will go up..[and no doudt it might,..but if it goes up or down/is as suits those who plan the game..you think to play..the market moves up or down according to their whim..[not yours]

i much doudt you attend/sharholder-meetings..[but if you hold actual/shares..it might just pay for you to attend one..sometime,..you will soon realise that/the vast ammount of voting shares are held by other/institutions/companies..[multinational/corp's..holding shares..in other multinational-corpses]

and you take your..'advice',..and the last trade price..from yet some other..'news'..corperation..[i love how you have to pay commision to buy..[or sell]..but mate its just gambeling..[for you small time..'mum and pop'..investors]..but...just like the madoff scam..one day/the little-guy loses..as the pyramid scam is revealed

i recall jp/morgan..decided to sell his shares..[in total]when a lift-boy gave him stock/advice..[when the common-people hold shares..pre/1930..[eventually the ponzie scam/gamble unwinds]

UOG,I think the message is starting to filter through and this is why people like Pericles and Yabby are so keen to discredit any evidence that is contrary to this ponzi pyramid scheme.

There are two evils that subjugate the individual ie big Govt and Corporate greed,aided and abetted by the thieves in our banking system.

We have a diminishing middle class even with two parteners working and far more efficiencies due to computers and improvements in science and technology.Even the labour of China giving us cheap consumerables has not stemmed the decline of the middle class.

What underpins properity is small Govt,education,affordable energy,truely free markets and system of fair rules for engagement.

There is nothing fair about the present fractional reserve system of banking.It is theft by stealth.

UOG, all you are doing, is digging your self an ever deeper hole
here. I fully agree with you, people like yourself should keep
well away from the sharemarket, as you clearly don't understand it.

The old saying that "a fool and his money are soon parted", certainly
applies to shares, if people rush in, are greedy and don't even
understand the fundamentals, like you and Arjay don't.

Under the bed is safest for you UOG! They are all crooks out there :)

Arjay, as a matter of fact, middle class Australia is doing pretty
well, even if not in your little patch of Sydney.

The average wage is now around 1162$ a week, so two of you working
can earn your 100k$ a year. If you can't get by on that,
then you have a problem.

Thirty years ago, people dreamed of a 13 square, 3 by 1 fibro home.
Today they demand a 25 sq, 4 by 2 with all mod cons, air conditioning,
big screen tv, 2 cars in the garage. When they overborrow as they
are impatient, they blame the system. Never mind being responsible
for their own actions, its human nature to blame everyone else.

Michael Pascoe just about wrote this for you:

http://business.smh.com.au/business/cop-a-dose-of-harden-up-20081114-66nl.html

If you don't like fractional reserve banking, which is the world
standard, so store gold bars under your bed Arjay. Then you
will be safe, free from those evil bankers.

Yabby the house and the consumerables are a lie.They are all based on debt.Kevin Rudd will soon have us in Govt Debt that he admits to of $300 billion or $30,000.00 for every working person plus interest.Then we have the balance of payments deficit which is now $ 700 billion plus interest.One trillion dollars for every working person equals $100,000.00 plus interest for every working person of foreign debt.

By my calculations houses in Sydney are still over valued by 33% and you can add that also to our national debt.Has the penny dropped yet Yabby?

Some people still don't appreciate the ramifications of the Fractional Banking system.

Say if you came to me for a loan of $10,000. I give you $1,000 cash and counterfit the remaining $9,000 - on the condition that I agree to "burn" the equivalent number of legitimate banknotes as they are repaid from the loan I would probably be locked up. Yet that is precisely what the banks do for every loan transaction.
On this basis the bank earns for itself the difference between the interest charged on a $10,000 loan and the interest paid on a $1,000 cash deposit (plus fees of course).

If you default on the loan, this leaves an additional amount of counterfit currency circulating in the economy that shouldn't really exist and eventually shows up.

Also, our "surplus" isn't in a vault somewhere in Canberra, stacked to the ceiling with banknotes. A significant amount of it is items like HECS debt, which (in that case) some may or may not ever be repaid and certainly can't be spent like cash. That's why the government has to borrow against it and can't spend it directly.

The alternative is to do nothing and "let the market sort it out".
However, a run on ANY bank in this country would shut down most of the other banks and most small businesses very quickly.

The social upheaval of vast numbers of people losing their savings AND their jobs and the collapse of economic confidence is somewhat worse than being saddled with a debt.

At least you are prepared to use an example, wobbles, instead of simply carrying a sandwich board that announces "the end is nigh".

>>Some people still don't appreciate the ramifications of the Fractional Banking system.<<

And indeed, some people still don't understand it.

But let's say you want to borrow $10,000 from me.

As you correctly point out, I need to have a level of "real" assets in order to make his loan under capital adequacy legislation.

In this case have $1,000 in fresh new banknotes in the vault, which I have just invested in the venture, and under your cap.ad. rules can therefore lend $10,000.

My balance sheet starts out with $1,000 in assets (cash) and $1,000 in liabilities (shareholder funds)

I lend you $10,000 at 10%. You go off and buy a car, or build an extension or whatever.

But unless I am a Central Bank, I would have to borrow in order to lend. The money obviously has to be "created" at some level, and this is where the government's monetary policy comes into play.

So my balance sheet shows $11,000 in assets (my loan to you and my $1,000 cash) and my liabilities show $10,000 to Megabank plus $1,000 of shareholder equity.

Meanwhile my P&L will show the interest payments from you, less the interest payments to Megabank. When you repay the loan, my balance sheet will reflect the increase in capital resulting from the profit on interest on the asset side, and an increase in shareholder equity.

In order to pay off the loan, you would have had to earn money in whatever manner you could - probably not as an accountant - and in the meantime, the money you borrowed from me has been happily passed around, earning other people's livings along the way.

Yes, it's a merry-go-round. And yes, when assets go bad when you can't repay, life gets tough.

But the money that has been ultimately "created" by the central bank has been used to keep the economy moving, people employed and food on the table.

Hope this helps.

extracted from
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MAR20090526&articleId=13738

IMF pointed out that its own study on historical recessions suggests that the US is only a third of the way through this current one;..therefore..economies expecting to recover with resurgence in demand from the US..will have a long wait.”

One attendee stated that,..“Equity losses in 2008 were worse than those of 1929,”..and that,..“The next phase of the economic decline will also be worse than the..'30s,..mostly because the US economy carries about $20 trillion of excess debt...Until that debt is eliminated,..the idea of a healthy boom is a mirage.”[9]

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4737.shtml
http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/11/worlds-richest-people-billionaires-2009-billionaires-intro.html

According to Jim Tucker,..Bilderberg is working on setting up a summit in Israel from June 8-11,..where “the world’s leading regulatory experts”..can..“address the current economic situation in one forum.”
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/05/27/here-comes-the-internet-tax
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3722439,00.html
http://lataan.blogspot.com/2009/05/could-calls-for-one-state-solution.html

In regards to the proposals put forward by Carl Bildt..to create a world treasury department..and world department of health..under the United Nations,..the IMF is said to become the World Treasury.. while the World Health Organization is to become the world department of health...Bildt also reaffirmed using..“climate change”..as a key challenge to pursue Bilderberg economic goals,..

referring to the..economic..crisis as a “once-in-a-generation crisis while global warming is a once-in-a-millennium challenge.”..Bildt also advocated expanding NAFTA through the Western hemisphere..to create an American Union,..using the EU as a..“model of integration.”
http://www.geldpress.com/2009/05/ireland-debtor-nation/

The IMF reportedly sent a report to Bilderberg..advocating its rise to becoming the World Treasury Department,and..“U.S./Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner enthusiastically endorsed the plan for a World Treasury Department...Geithner further said,..“Our hope is that we can work with Europe on a global framework,a global infrastructure which has appropriate global oversight.”[10]
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175075


Bilderberg’s Plan in Action?
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0817-07.htm
http://www.startribune.com/nation/46085367.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU1yDEmP:QMDCinchO7DU
http://revolutionarypolitics.com/?p=850
http://www.prisonplanet.com/how-george-bush-gave-krazy-kim-the-bomb.html

Reorganizing the Federal Reserve
http://seekingalpha.com/article/139505-china-is-now-in-firm-control-of-u-s-debt-markets
http://www.prisonplanet.com/economist-waterboard-the-fed.html

Following the Bilderberg meeting,..there were several interesting announcements made by key participants,..specifically in regards to reorganizing the Federal Reserve...

On May 21,it was reported that US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner..“is believed to be leaning heavily..towards giving the Federal Reserve..a central role in future regulation,”..

and.“it is understood that the Fed/would take on some of the work..currently undertaken by the US Securities and Exchange Commission.”[11]...lol

wow govt powers to ngo

*Has the penny dropped yet Yabby?*

Lol Arjay, you do have a sense of humour. What would you like to
know? :)

AFAIK Pericles and I have both stated that in the past, credit
was far too easily obtainable and Australian consumers overborrowed,
just look at their credit card debts, all at record interest payments.

But consumers seemingly did not care, they were going to live it up
at any cost. A whole generation has never known hard times or high
unemployment. IMHO a bit of recession is not such a bad thing, it
brings people back to earth, individuals and companies who have
over borrowed are brought to account, businesses that are not viable
are sold, restructured, etc. Yes that involves tears, as people
learn the hard way. But reality does not go away, when we close
our eyes and wish it would.

I agree with you that Australian houses are still overvalued. At the
moment all that give away money for new home owners is keeping things
going, low interest rates mean people will borrow to the max, so
median house prices won't drop that much. But down the track, when
commodity prices rise again, inflation sets in etc, the RBA will
have no choice but to raise interest rates, there will be more
tears as people who cannot afford those homes, have to liquidate.

That does not mean that the middle class are doing badly. There
are plenty who bought houses before the housing boom, who have low
repayments, even if interest rates rise. Their real income is still
far better then 30 years ago, they might have to cancel or delay
that overseas holiday for a bit, but they are doing very well in
any measured terms. They make up the middle class, which you claim
is suffering.

I know, we've had false dawns before, but I really think we may be making headway with this, Arjay.

>>Kevin Rudd will soon have us in Govt Debt that he admits to of $300 billion or $30,000.00 for every working person plus interest.<<

True. But bear in mind that in some form or other, every working person will also have experienced a benefit from the creation of that $30,000 on their behalf.

>>Then we have the balance of payments deficit which is now $ 700 billion plus interest.<<

A quick read of the following article might put the balance of payments deficit into some perspective for you

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/BalanceofPayments.html

"the conditions to which the deficit responds may be good or bad and may be the results of good or bad policy; but if there is a problem, it is in the underlying conditions and not in the deficit per se."

The underlying conditions in this instance would be the sudden lurch - caused by the world-wide financial problems - in our trading patterns. You may have noticed two things have occurred simultaneously with our export strategy: we are selling less overseas, and not getting as good a price as before.

Meanwhile (get this!) we are still importing a whole shedload of stuff, which (Oh horror) people are going out and buying!

With debt!

So you have to be a little bit careful when you add your figures together that you are not double-counting.

>>One trillion dollars for every working person equals $100,000.00 plus interest for every working person of foreign debt<<

It hasn't quite reached a trillion each, Arjay, but we know what you mean.

But once again, with feeling. It is you and I who are causing the problem. When Kevin hands out all that money, he has effectively borrowed it from our future. But in the meantime, we go out and buy more stuff, which keeps people employed, which keeps the economy moving.

It's not all good, on account of we are going to have to pay it back someday. But in the meantime, live, spend and be merry.

gabby<<AFAIK Pericles and I have both stated that in the past,credit
was far too easily obtainable and Australian consumers overborrowed,
just look at their credit card debts,all at record interest payments.>>..i love your selective blindness

i agree consumers have drasticlly overspent..[but so has buisness overspent..[we need only look as far as your right issue]..and your investment..in a company who's greed is bigger than they can meet from normal return's

this greed is good has seen many overextend at the money feast..[we need only look at the ammount of businness going bust to realise the consumer is only symptomatic..of that big buSINness did to excess..

[but lest we forget by and large businness proffits come from consumers..[CONsumming TOO much]..the yanki consumer is fast getting homeless...meaning they will be living in a car..[not needing lpg..nor able to afford the cost of conversion..]

i put to krudd that the auto industry assistance should be to convert them into lpg..[in factory...but as he chose to ignore the advice im not expecting huge growth in lpg..and as long as petro stays cheap lpg is not a proffitablt investment..[at least the banks agree]

but i guess im just being nasty..because you and pere-cules have so much faith in the banking/monetary system, your bo0th failing to see the smart ones used up all their credit[and put too much into the banking system[and putting in enough..to pay its intrest back...isnt going to happen without hyper-inflation of monetary supply

[meaning consumers can affortd even less consumption..[but mainly that over priced/over valued ,big businness goes to the wall ever faster..as more and more mum and pop..investors become basic wage slaves..[as their investment vehicles go bust]

yes some housing has gone down..[but the low class housing has gone up[as the elites downsize their upper-class housing to meet their future income..[as the true elite runoff..os..with their/your 'investment'

see white-color crime mostly dont get jail..they use their plunder on lawers or to make their getaway..[only mugs that steal food/basics go to court and fill the jails,..where they learn the really rewarding fraud steals big bucks..from the gullible..fast shrinking middle class
mumb and pop

Getting back to the topic.Every US Congressman has a moral reponsibility to back a bill to audit the Fed Res.The people have a right to know where their debt money is being spent.

It is totally obscene that the Chief Inspector of the Board of Governers who are supposed to represent the people in this private banking cartel,is just an expose of Sgt Schultz."I see nothing,I know nothing."

The seeds of revolution are germinating in the US,and this could destabilise the entire planet.We need more communication via the internet,since there are many at this moment who see war as solution to economic woes.

War does not cleanse the spirit,nor does it create wealth.Those who survive war are traumatised by it for life.Let those who promulgate war be first on the front lines.Old men premote it,while young men die for no good reason.

The US foreign policy is reponsible for all the terrorism and hate we see today.They created Saddham,Backed Pol Pot and the Taliban against the Russians.The wars of the US today are all about corporate profit and nothing to do with ideals that will benefit the masses.

You appear to have narrowed the topic a little, Arjay.

>>Getting back to the topic.Every US Congressman has a moral reponsibility to back a bill to audit the Fed Res<<

Which I suspect is no bad thing, given the rather intemperate tone of your opening post.

Your original spray included...

>>A total of $9 trillion is unaccounted for<<

...which you signally failed to substantiate. Then there was...

>>Imagine you took out a $30,000.00 loan from bank who took control of this money and you are legally obliged to pay back both the principal and interest even if it is mismanaged or lost.For every family this is a debt of $120,000.00.<<

...which turned out to be purely imaginary. As, to be fair, you pointed out when you said "Imagine...".

But we still have the audit to nag about.

As I have mentioned before, there's no problem in an audit per se.

From a practical point of view, there is simply so much going on that it will be a pretty expensive exercise. And seeing that the American people have to foot the bill, it would only be fair to them to have more convincing grounds than just a few conspiracy theories.

But since I am not a US taxpayer, it is a matter of complete indifference whether an audit goes ahead or not.

The only people who will win out of it is the accountancy firm - or firms, given the size of the task - since they will be able to charge pretty much whatever they like.

And given that the Fed probably uses double entry bookkeeping, it is unlikely you will find anything untoward.

U.S. Inflation to Approach Zimbabwe Level

Chen Shiyin and Bernard Lo
Bloomberg
May 28, 2009
The U.S. economy will enter “hyperinflation” approaching the levels in Zimbabwe because the Federal Reserve will be reluctant to raise interest rates, investor Marc Faber said.

Prices may increase at rates “close to” Zimbabwe’s gains,Faber said in an interview with Bloomberg Television in Hong Kong.

Zimbabwe’s inflation rate reached 231 million percent in July..the last annual rate published by the statistics office...
lol and we sell lpg in us dollars[we have parity to signapure special blend..in us dollars..govt tax revenue for fuel will soon kick in again and the 'mineral boom' will again fill the govt coffers

then we get the carbon tax on top of it all...lol

“I am 100 percent sure that the U.S. will go into hyperinflation,” Faber said...“The problem with government debt growing so much is that when the time will come and the Fed should increase interest rates,..they will be very reluctant to do so and so inflation will start to accelerate.”

Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia President Charles Plosser said on May 21 inflation may rise to 2.5 percent in 2011.

That exceeds the central bank officials’ long-run preferred range of 1.7 percent to 2 percent and contrasts with the concerns of some officials and economists that the economic slump may provoke a broad decline in prices.

Read entire article

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=avgZDYM6mTFA&refer=us#

dont say you wernt told...and we need to hyper-inflate along with it all because..WE SIGN OUR CONTRACTS IN US dollars...[i recall one 20 year contract for 20 billion/US to china..lol

mate..i dont keep my money under my bed..[..i turn it into that stuff i know will be soon hyperinflating..and food]

read the signs
http://www.infowars.com/fdic-fund-running-dry/
http://www.infowars.com/the-bilderberg-plan-for-2009-remaking-the-global-political-economy/
http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-argues-against-bailout-policies-at-wake-forest/
http://www.infowars.com/obama-in-la-you-aint-seen-nothing-yet/

guess its time to visit wrh to find out what really is happening
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

Ah UOG, you would have just made Arjay's day. No more worries
about Australia's debts, for they are mainly in US$. We'll pay
them all back with a single banknote!

Marc Faber is of course well known for talking up the gold price
and that is great news for gold mining shareholders such as myself.
With customers like you guys around, the industry will keep booming
along at record levels. So you keep buying those gold bars, the
Perth Mint will sell them to you and even store them for you, if
your friends steal them from under your bed.

As to your opinions about energy/gas, perhaps that is not your
area of expertise lol. As a matter of interest, LNG prices are
linked to oil prices, so whatever the oil price, gas follows.
Contracts are written that way.

Shell, Exxon-Mobil, British Gas, Woodside, Origin, are all large
investors in LNG and can see the future growth of the industry
coming from SE Asia. Perhaps they know just a little bit more
about the industry then you do.

But don't you worry about energy, you just keep buying gold bars.
The gold mining industry loves you UOG :)

.

the thing about gold is its price increases only because the value of dollars needed to buy it decreases...as you would well know

its much the same a no brainer that as the value in fiat dollars decreases stocks[as well as everything will increase...much as arjay has said re pumping in fiat dollars[its wholesale theft from those not knowing the scam,..and those fools storing shrinking dollars under their beds

its sad and funny that wtice now you have accused me of storing stuff in my bed[whats the facination bro...first it was cash[as if i put any value on fiat issue currency notes that are falling in price...lol

nopw its gold under my bed your seeing[when its silver i store under my bed..lol..[silver will double in price well before gold]..gold is too pumped up at this time..[despite being under value in american fiat,

the thing with gold is its too hard to cash in even a simple ounce/gold..when the ounce equates to 1000 us...but an ounce of silver for 20..[or the soon to be forty]..is relitivly as easy as

anyhow im also gone in for nickle/copper..but not content having simply the metals also have invested in stamps...books/art..[not that modern s-crap]..as well as diversified into many other collectables

[i remember the last inflation boom,but began collecting way before then[it was because of the coin collecting i became aware of the money/securities/bonds scam...that dosnt mean i dont hold a few collectable notes as well

i also invest in old cars..still regret selling thaty old pontiac paresian..pre the last inflation cycle..but i guess its all part of the learning process...

thats sort of why im angry with you two..[your selves allready comfortable,..as i am,..are yet content to let ignorants stay ignorant...

arjay at least is sharing his learning..but you two..mate how you sleep at night/defending the indefensable,..this inevitable con-sequence of the events..

arjay is mearly trying to let people know about...set up by the big players..you so readilly defend..to further reap wealth from the poor

*also have invested in stamps...books/art..[not that modern s-crap]..as well as diversified into many other collectables*

Hehe, now its becoming really amusing :) So you and Arjay think
that the global financial system is going to collapse and
clearly you think that stamps, art, coins, old cars etc will
save you!

You are quite correct UOG, there really are some mug mum and
dads investors out there. Let me suggest that you are one of them.

How the Govt rips people off is not by causing inflation, investors
in cash can receive interest on their money. It is by not allowing
for inflation in the interest calculation. In other words inflation
takes a share of your interest, tax on money that does not allow
for inflation, is the real rip off. For that very reason,
Australians tend not to save in banks, but negatively gear houses etc.
They are not silly.

No wonder Australia has a problem lol. Australians like UOG buy
stamps and old cars, meantime the Japanese and Chinese are buying
our best resources. From Berri fruit juices, to xxxx beer, to
mining ventures, they are investing.

Now I'll give you a word of advice lol.

If 10 years ago, you had bought a few shares in Australia's leading
companies, say BHP, a couple of banks, Woolies, CSL, Woodside,
Wesfarmers, Santos, Origin, and a number of others, thrown them
in your bottom drawer and forgotten about them, not only would
you be receiving regular increasing 6 monthly dividend cheques,
your shares would have doubled, tripled, or quadrupled in value.
You can sell them online, for 25$ a trade, your money is guaranteed
in 3 days.

You would own a share of those so called "evil" corporations and
could even go and hassle the board at the AGM, if you had a problem.

I've done extremely well doing exactly that, but you keep warning
the world that it is about to end and that people can save themselves
by buying stamps and art. Good luck to you lol.

Gold is the way to go since the $ US is in decline.If we truely have passed peak oil,then oil shares are the next best option with shares in food companies probably next.

It did not have to come to this if there was more control over the fractional reserve banking system.This collapse is far from over and anyone seeing green shoots now,are delusional.

The shroud of impossibility is hanging heavily over the minds of Pericles and Yabby.This may be a time of opportunity for some,but a total collapse will see suffering beyond the limits of our imagination.

They have to stop creating cyber money soon,otherwise we will have hyper-inflation and that will be a disaster.

Arjay, what I think is that you simply don't understand the
big picture here. Fact is the US $ has been overvalued for years,
as China and Japan flooded the country with exports, then with earned
$, to manipulate their currencies and keep the $ high, for the
benefit of their exporters. Now its all coming back to haunt them,
for of course in the long term, the merrygoround has to stop.

The Americans did try to get the Chinese to see reason, with no
luck, so eventually Dick Cheney decided that the US $ would not be
America's problem, but the rest of the world's problem.

So now if the Chinese and Japanese were to pull out their money,
their investments would collapse in value and their export market
would collapse too. In that sense it serves them right for not
playing fairly. The US, well if their $ collapses, their exporters
will benefit and thus their economy. Whatever they owe, they owe
in US $, which they can print if needbe.

You worry about a total collapse, but ignore the fact that it was
the actions of the Fed, which stopped a total collapse in Sept.
So you can thank them for acting and saving everyone alot of pain.

Yes they have increased the money supply, by around 1.5 trillion,
which is still only a small overall amount of the total US money
supply, given that its the global default currency.

Bernanke's idea was to solve the short term problems first, ie a
collapse of the global banking system, which he achieved. A
bit of inflation is a mild problem in comparison. Yes they have
increased the money supply, but being the Fed, they can soon
decrease it, should too much inflation kick in.

The good news is that perhaps the Chinese and Japanese have finally
understood that they can't play the game by dumping ever increasing
exports on the US market, for in the end it will bite them in the
arse.

ok yabby your the man[sorry shouldnt be flipant to an elder]

anyhow dear s-age please answer me this ..the stocks you recomend we buy[have a current'real value''..is this not so..

now dear sage what would happen if everyone in aussie bought just one share...would the price of our share go up or down?

ok impresuming dear sage it whent up[has any more 'value' been created?..or has demand restricted supply and the price risen simply by under-supply because of over demand?

ok now bloomberg puts in a sell[on our share]and the institutional elite start selling[wil the price go up or down?

we start selling the price goes down even more[but what has changed [nothing but the demand...mate cant you see the multinational media is playing all these insiders as a joke[making stocks fall or rise as their buy and sell recomendations change..its all about artificial shortage..percieved demand[playing the margins..with many nutters gambling their very house..and super]

see maste how howhard with compulsory super gives a cash injection to the stock gamblers[every pay day...but this predicable money..[in the trillions]..has created a bubble[i could do the same with postage stamps[i got 40 kilos of queens head stamps,

by making a artificial shortage via the media getting the gamblers to buy i could double their price overnight]..but the fact remains once the normal market returns their real asset valuation remains their book value ..priced according to their rareity..[compared to their demand]

the stock market is a pyramid sceme essentially[with our compulsory super proping it up gambling on an artificialshortage..[and most..'investor gamblers'..arnt using their own cash but us the compulsory wage slaves cash or their savings they thought banked..

[mate i couldnt sell my soul that cheap]..stocks may may you rich..[but are making many others poor]they are just too dumbed down to know it

extract from a lengthy revelation
http://www.infowars.com/manipulation-how-financial-markets-really-work/
Manipulation: How Financial Markets Really Work

Wall Street’s mantra is that markets move randomly and reflect the collective wisdom of investors...The truth is quite opposite.

The in-visible hand..insiders control markets and manipulate them up or down for profit.all of them,including stocks, bonds,commodities and currencies.

Catherine Austin Fitts describes a "financial coup d’etat,..including fraudulent housing(and other bubbles),..pump and dump schemes,..naked short selling,..precious metals price suppression,..and active intervention in the markets by the government and central bank" along with insiders.

It’s financial fraud..“pump and dump,”.defined as “artificially inflating the price of a stock or other security through promotion,..in order to sell at the inflated price,”..then profit more on the downside by short-selling...“This practice is illegal under securities law,yet it is particularly common,”..and in today’s volatile markets likely ongoing daily.

Why?..Because the profits are enormous,..in good and bad times,and when carried to extremes like now,..Fitts calls it “pump(ing)and dump(ing) of the entire American economy,”

duping the public,..fleecing trillions from them,and it’s more than just.“a process designed to wipe out the middle class...This is genocide (by other means)..a much more subtle and lethal version than ever before perpetrated by the scoundrels of our history texts.”

Fitts explains..It’s a government-business partnership for enormous profits through..“legislation,contracts,regulation/enforcement.(or lack of it),selective/financing,(and)favourable/subsidies.”

More still overall by rigging the game for the powerful,..while at the same time harming the public so cleverly that few understand what’s happening.

Market Rigging Mechanisms..The Plunge Protection Team..continues at link
http://www.infowars.com/manipulation-how-financial-markets-really-work/

how do they say it..[lying down with dogs you get fleas?

UOG, all that you are showing is that you don't understand the
fundamentals of the share market. Yes there are lots of scoundrels
in the share market, but they are also in the property market,
car market, coin market, silver market, etc. That's why you
need to understand what you are doing and why.

The point is that whilst somebody is scheming to try to increase
the prices of a share, somebody else is scheming to reduce it.
No wonder so many hedge funds have gone broke, they bet and lost.
The biggest boys, the ones you worry about, lost more then anyone
else.

Companies trading on the ASX are quite strictly regulated as to
what they have to publish. If you can read a balance sheet,
understand P/E ratios, nett asset backing etc, it all becomes
much clearer.

What you are basically buying with a share, is potential future
earnings.

Now take a company like BHP. They mine copper, uranium, nickel,
gold, oil, iron-ore, etc. They constantly develop new mines and
have the money to buy any small tiddlers that are worth buying.
Do you think that they will still be here in 10 years making money,
or don't you? Do you think there will be growing demand for their
products? I do. So when their P/E ratio hit around 10, I bought
some more in March or so, for around 25$. As a value investor, I
buy when things are good value, not when they are sky high.

They are now 34$, so I could sell and make a good profit, but I choose
to leave them in my super fund, for in 10 years time they will still
be paying 6 monthly dividends and will most likely still be here
mining, to supply China, Japan, Korea etc.

When Westpac Bank dropped to 14.70, I also bought some more shares,
because I think there will still be a Westpac Bank in 10 years, they
will still be making profits, still sending out dividend cheques
to their shareholders.

tbc

When Bunnings Warehouse Trust, who own about 60 of those Bunnings
buildings, issued a rights issue at 1.50, I've taken up some of
them too, for when you value those buildings, they are worth more
then that per share, pay a 7.5% dividend, indexed to inflation.
For I think there will still be Bunnings stores in 10 years and
you people will still go shopping there. Long term those buildings
will increase in value, not decrease, so I also pick up capital gain.

Now I could be wrong on any of those companies, that is why the
secret is to spread your risks over a number of companies.

So forget short sellers, forget crooks, share prices going up and
down, just focus on the fundamentals. Buy good solid companies
making rising profits, when they are good value, like when everyone
else panics and is selling them lol.

You confuse investment with speculation. I don't speculate, I invest
based on the fundamentals. Just ask Warren Buffett. He's done quite
well, using the same principle

i understand price/earing ratio..[and please dont think im calling you foolish]..your clearly on top of it all...but gabby how much is enough?

yes its great to have more than you need..[but my happyness of having more than i need,..is the comfort of being able to let the income sit in the bank..im not driven to grow my little wealth/comfort into a big one...but many are but to what end?...

how much is too much? at what stage do we say enough...you think this much..but then it deflates..so we need to get ever more...how many die too rich[then by the 3 rd generation they are poor

i know price earning goes by declarations made by possably corrupt accountants..[and projected earnings]..but things can change quickly[and via clever debt instruments,..like debt/equity swaps..[swapping my irrecoverable debt for yours...lol..can make a loss.'look'..like a gain..can make things appear to look better..[but in fact we both now hold an asset..[that allways was a loss]

im simply saying its a dirty game..[we all lost a large one third off our pensions..[despite p/e ratings being at a record high]..or rather the mug punters giving their cash..[compulsory/super]..did..not you of course...

but your not legislated to give cash..because somehow you learned the game..mate its just a thing i dont want to be assosiated with

many of the earnings clearly were delusional...those who make such p/e ratio's know we have faith in their accounting..[they can massivly get things wrong..[like maddof..[who apparently didnt even need to buy stock,..it was a case of trust him...and they did..sadly most arnt on top of it all..like you are..

its for those trusting ignorants..i keep on posting..so that they and them..are allowed to know there isnt any free-lunch..somebody loses to get any gain..

its gambeling and the form guide..[p/e]..ratio is at best a guide..some just might decide to manipulate..[despite oversights we think are true/trustworthy]..

the fact is somewhere there is at the end of the line a consumer paying too much...to a cartel of colluders,..seeking ever more of their pre-taxed pay

UOG, how much is enough? Whatever we decide it to be. In my case
I think I have enough, to do the things I want to do, not the things
I have to do. But I take your point, some people always want more
as an end in itself, I am not one of them. So I ask them what they
really want from life, many cannot answer.

OTOH, I am also well aware that money in the bank over 10 years,
at 4% inflation, means that after 10 years it has lost half its
value. Over 20 years there is not much left, so to preserve what
was there originally and provide an income, is not such a bad idea.

The share market can do that, if one has half a brain.

Life is a dirty game UOG. What if your wife marries you for the
money, or for a passport, then runs off with half your assets?
She can do so with impunity.

So it pays to trust nobody, but to also use sound judgement.

People can be very stupid, acting on their emotions. Madoff was
seemingly a nice guy, so they trusted him with billions. Did they
even check out his auditor? Nope, any that did, would have run a
mile. People invested in MIS in agriculture, where they wanted
a big tax deduction. How many questioned the figures, as the financial
advisors were pocketing their commissions? Where is sound judgement
in all of this?

OTOH, very large public companies like BHP, have analysts crawling
all over their figures and their assets. If anyone would smell
a rat, they would short sell the share immediately! Many people
have access to their books, unlike a private individual like Madoff.

So its a very different game buying blue chips, compared to buying
some speculative mining share or some biotech.

Yes super funds have lost 30% or so in value. But how much did they
gain over the last 20 years?