Well the dear old IMF are going to produce a new currency called "cyber money".They they are going to create money in their computers,loan it to the World Reserve Banking System,who in turn will loan it to Govts of our planet.

Will it be better than the money printed during the Great Depression or that of modern Zimbabwe?

If we are going to have money generated with no real productive capacity backing it,why not let individual Govts fall on their own swords as a result of just printing in.

Instead paying interest to the Global Reserve Banking System that has created this collapse through their fractional reserve system,why not let individual countries make their own decisions about the amount of inflationary money needed to buffer the initial stages of this collapse.

Eventually the market must decide what is of value.Presently we are are buying time via stimulus packages.Creating money deepens the recession and prolongs the time for recovery.Shrinking to more socialism will not save us.

Arjay, you think of money in the wrong way. It is simply a means
of exchange. Those notes are simply there to enable those means
of exchange. Print more of them, they will be worth less. It is not
rocket science.

You are free to have your assets in real things, other then paper.
You can own gold, you can own oil wells, you can own a pile of copper,
or whatever you think will have value in the future.

Its your choice really.

interesting [you got any links]
i did a quick search and coulnt find it
http://www.google.com.au/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=gd&q=IMF+cyber+money&hl=en-GB&rls=MEDA,MEDA:2008-36,MEDA:en-GB

thing is the imf has a lot of gold its selling off [gold they got from argentina etc when they got conned ]cyber money isnt a new concept as the quick search reveals ,but the next global reserve currency , controlled by the imf [and the isda ;international securities and derivitives assosiation [controlled by the imf] will be the carbon credit

its the next big scam for the securities trators to speculate with, cyber money based on carbon credits [based on a lie], it is well known the media hasnt debated the topic of global warming[cooling till only a few years ago], but cyber carbon credits does look the logical scam

see they can tax us with them, huge tax they set the price of, a tax on everyone in the world ,simple cyber credit cant be sold cyber carbon credit can [and will be]the worlds feds al ready create their cyber credits, [even stocks and gold , oil etc arnt traded each day [they are centrally controled by the imf controled group that holds the real shares and real assets and only alows us to trade their paper promises[go check your super it dosnt hold the real paper securities only the promise on paper
#
every day 5 times the total ammount of all the gold ever found is traded [because people are only trading the paper isued by the gld [who only hold 100 tons of the stuff [lol]

the real truth is infandous [too odious for words]its not just cyber money, its cyber share trading ,cyber commodities, cyberlies, and yes the imf is in total control, but its controled by the same banker that runs the worlds feds [and stole the worlds gold silver and securities],

the same mob that made debt have value by trading bod debt for bad debt and calling it a share trade,[debt equity swap[derivitive]underwritten and earning a bonus for them derivitive traitors who concieved the carbon credit,and deal in fiat[and cyber]paper promises

Yabby you are living in denial.Since the 1970's the money supply has increased expodentially and destroyed the value of our dollar.If the IMF continues on it's way,hyper-inflation will mean that interest rates will rise well above 10%,we will have shortages due to the destruction of business and unemployment of massive proportions.

The way out is for sound money backed by gold ,resources,energy , land and real productivity.Our fiat currency means nothing.The US currency will soon collapse and we will follow.

one under god,I totally agree.Basically I believe in evolution,but when a system becomes totally dysfunctional and perverts the real productive economy,then it is time for revolution.It is happening in the US right now.

No Arjay I think it is you living in another world, as yabby says it does not matter what they call it it is a measure of exchange only.
Phantom money, non existent money, is a reality it has been lent by banks spent by borrowers for decades.
This is the very problem alone with credit to people with no way of paying real money in return that see,s us dance around a bottomless hole called recession.

belly quote>>..as yabby says it does not matter what they call it it is a measure of exchange only...>>
a measure of exchange that is worthless
a measure of exchange that gives ursury to those who hold the exclusive franchise ,via the bank owned fed reserves of the world

why should fiat currency [basicly legalised paper ] by borrowed by the very govts validating it legal tender

it is the high cost of it , and the fact they[the worlds fed can regulate and inflate it at will to make the worlds govts come to heal to the bankers allowed to issue it

the fox runs the hen house

>>Phantom money, non existent money, is a reality it has been lent by banks spent by borrowers for decades.>>

and the reason for the continual boom and bust is because it can only be created by borrowing it [AT URSURY] so someone [usually the poor] has to default only so they can hyper inflate it to issue more of it

the prices of things dont rise [their worth in the fiat inflates[in relitive exchange value real worth stays relitive to its real value [except the waghes of the poor that slide ever lower

its a case of the poor wage that stays the same gets eroded in the value it can buy

>>people with no way of paying real money in return that see,s us dance around a bottomless hole called recession.>>
yes ursury is a moral corruption
the rich get credtit the poor get bankrupted

its fine if your credit worthy
inflation creates ever more poor
imagine if every payment cut our debt, not simply payed off the ursury

The IMF as with all Governments can only print money according to what gold reserves they have, and every country has gold reserves of varying amount depending, i imagine on the size of their economy.
The problem we face today was borne of greed and no regulation in the American economy, now they have to get us out of the mire and we have not seen the worst of it yet.

blackwattle..>>The IMF as with all Governments can only print money according to what gold reserves they have,..>>

imf dosnt have its own money[yet]it has so far as i can see a credit based on its acclaimed gold/reserves,via these gold/reserves it tt get's the other feds of the world to print THEIR fiat currency as required

or just manipulate the credit of the creditor organisations in the debitors contracted obligations currency...thats not to say it wont soon have its own carbon/credit derivitive'currency'base monetary-unit,...that it can print at whim,restrict supply or inflate in value,without that pesky over-sight of voters and treasury/officials not in on the game

..>>..every country has gold/reserves of varying amount...>>

thing is the worlds fed/reserves took over the gold many nations had,

the common consensus is that feds not being govt and not being private are beyond auditing...or explaining or being brought to account...[were the same rules imf applied to argentina etc to usa the us banks would long ago have had to be nationalised...[and had their gold reserves seized]

it has been reported that the gold in fort-knox has been replaced with fax/gold bars[by the service personal]who noted the'gold'corroding..[gold..;real gold]dont corrode,but the fort-knoz gold reserves havnt ever been audited..[either]

anyhow it is well known that the US gold can be[and has been leased[for the set price of 44$.44 cents us by the fed reserve],also that the buy back ptice of the us fed/reserve is fixed at a mere 44 billion[us]fiat $'s

but where does govt get the fiat to buy baCK THE BANK?..,from the fed[banker/cartel][run by the 12 bankers who together run the worlds fed reserves[and the imf etc]

>>The problem..greed/no regulation in the American economy,now they have to get us out of the mire..we have not seen the worst of it yet.>>

we havnt seen the worst of it yet
and those who run the'fiat/fed'scam dont go to jail[ever]

seems she who said'the best way to rob the bank is to own it',was right,..as was the wrathchild who said'let me issue the money i care not who runs the country'...

There appears to be a lot of elegant discussion on the topic of cyber money, but statements need to be backed up with facts...where is the evidence.
Always remember its in everybodies interest that systems work, this system got out of control as it has in the past, but there will be greater regulation and we shall proceed for another ten years and another crash and on it goes.
Dont you just love all the drama.

try
http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1062
#for part two
http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1327
or search here
http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=49

we have broken down much of the finantial scam, into sub headings [try derivitives]section
http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1263

or read about mortgauge notes [how unless the origonal is produced no default can be recorded]
http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1187

or read up on the crossborder scam[selling infastructure then leasse back default]
http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1303
or read about non resource loans

then as i advised there
check the links and do your own researches
dont expect anyone to explain the topic
[try to learn how vast this topic gets, lies upon lies then the deceptions begin...lol

The IMF have only 3200 tons of gold .This represents about $110 billion in gold and they are going to loan out 14 times this amount.This the fractional reserve system again diluting the value of people's money and charging them interest on it.Basically it is theft.

If the IMF or the Reserve Banking System is going to create money,we all should be share holders in this since the wealth is not theirs to own or destroy.Many who are shareholders in the banking system have vested interests in keeping the present inequitable system afloat.

The first stage is to audit the US Fed Res.Presently they are buying up cheap assets and not doing their job of loaning to the lesser banks thus supporting business.

The Obama administration are forcing good banks to loan money for their flawed bailout schemes.They are doing this via threats of audits and yet they do not seek the power to audit the all powerful Fed.

Only 11% of congress have the guts to support Ron Paul's bill HR 1207 to audit the Fed.This just shows you the power of an organisation whose sheer existence as owners of the $US,defies the rules of the US constitution.

see http://larsonsworld.com/library/articles/tschauf_fedres.html

SDR's = special drawing rights
its not really a new currency, its an extra line of credit, that in time will hyperinflate the global currencies, think of it as a way to further indebit the counties under the creditor, so the creditor has more power over you

i came across an article
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/5096524/The-G20-moves-the-world-a-step-closer-to-a-global-currency.html

it dosnt clearly say sdr's are a new currency but that its a STEP closer to the global currency, [that neo [new] currency will be the carbon credit]

black gold ...texans derivitives traitors tea, we are carbon based life forms, the carbon tax will be put upon everything bought and sold, and the base unit exchange value in every global currency will be set by the mark-et

do not take the mark-et's valuation , it will have the traitors bonus built in

anyhow sdr's have a builyt in ursury that means your govt will need to pay intrest to the imf, and that means you pay more tax, as much as the market bulls can bear

they will have a speculative free for all, and user pays
sdr's are the way to the carbon credit, now govt only needs to use up the extra credit facility drawing rights and get on the hook
now what project can govt sell us, that will get you on the hook

hey lets not just do fibre to the node [lets go fibre to the home [at 5 times the current cost,

its not about us getting the new pipeline [but about getting govt to draw on its drawing right, then get the new car-bon tax hooked into everything you buy and sell

stop the bonus handouts kevin
enough of the stimulous,

forget lending to keep houses prices up,forget subsidising the stock gambelers with compulsory super con-tribute-ion, we got enough govt debt [beted][more than many will be able to bare]

global warming is fraud but the neo global carbon tax fraud is near a done deal #,just swallow the bait..[dont debait]lol

As one under god you are beset with solving the problems of the world good luck.
But you mentioned a carbon tax, here o wise one you are correct...why....because i have already paid it on my flight to Sydney in July.
It was optional mind you but the $3.60 offset my carbon foot print on that flight, so its only a question of time before yet another tax is added to the struggling masses.
As in times of war...we are gun fodder.

Futher to the conspiracy debate will this link help.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty4.html

If there is to be a global currency owned by the Reserve Banksters,then we will be in greater debt slavery.Many of the left are screaming out for World Govt.Imagine the NSW Govt multiplied over a thousand times ,that cannot be voted out of office.It would be our worst nightmare.

All countries should be able to keep their autonomy and currency.We can actually help each other better without the Global Reserve banking parasites perverting and plundering our economies.

black wattle, your link is very deceptive lawyer speak, appart from admitting the basic premises of scam in the body of the text, there is too much lies mixed in with truths to rebut in 350 words
but lets quote the last'CON-colusions quote>>We can see from the top of the table that the Fed's primary source of income is interest from government bonds.>>intrest that COMES via tax on income, ie taxpayers

>>This money is paid to the Fed by the U.S. Treasury.>>all govt funds go to treasury THEN TO THE FED[the govt banker]

>>Is this not de facto evidence the Fed is leaching off the taxpayers?No,it is not.>>YES IT IS

>>The Treasury is obligated to pay interest to whomever owns those bonds.<<OBLIGATED TO PAY IN FIAT OWNED AND ISSUED BY THE FED ALONE

>>In fact, from the Treasury's perspective,it is a good thing the Fed holds those bonds.<<HOW IS IT GOOD TO BEG YOUR OWN LEGAL TENDER FROM A FOREIGN BANKING CARTEL?

>>the Treasury gets back a significant amount of the interest paid to the Fed.<<ANY FUNDS TREASURY RECIEVE GET BANKED WITH THE FED

>>Thus,government bonds held by the Fed are essentially interest-free loans to the government.<<LOL,bonds BEAR INTREST,that essentially means tax payers pay intrest[lol]WHERE THE INTREST FREE?{LOL}

>>Conclusion
The regional Federal Reserve Banks are private owned, but they are controlled by the Board of Governors<<YEP

<<The Board sets monetary policy and the Federal Reserve Banks execute it.<<YEP

<<In addition,the Fed does not use any taxpayer money to fund its operations.>>LOL

<<While the Fed does collect interest on government bonds>>lol

<<the Treasury would have had to make such payment even if they Fed did not hold any bonds.>>if it owned the fed..[like it used to]..it could issue its own money INTREST FREE..it could issue bonds as money[bonds are money..why issue them to get fed fiat?

Black Wattle is a foil.These are the only posts on OLO he/she has made.Why such intensity,distortion,failure to address the reality of the IMF lack of gold reserves etc? Perhaps Black Wattle has another agenda ie.subverting the truth.

Arjay, the gold standard was dropped over 30 years ago. You have
still to get your mind around it.

*it could issue its own money INTREST FREE*

Err UOG, why should anyone give you money interest free? Usury
is a religious concept, not a business concept. Money devalues
over time, due to inflation, so compensation is justified.

Or would you like an interest free home loan, so that you can
make a killing for yourself later on, all tax free?

Human greed knows no bounds and it seems that those who fail,
just blame the system

Yabby interest free home loans would see hyper-inflation destroy us.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation.This present situation is unprescidented.The West has lived off debt for too long.We virtually have no manufacturing base.The finanace sector is stuffed and the only jobs that exist are in discretionary service industries such as cleaning,lawn mowing,pooch washing,retail restaurants and fast foods.These jobs will evaporate when times get really tough.

In the Great Depression many people lived in the rural areas and we had a good manufacturing and farm sector base.They could grow their own food.People did not come out of hard times until after WW2.

Unless we get things right financially and prepare properly for worse case scenarios,total chaos could ensue.None of our Govts have a clue.The size of Govt must be cut drastically and spending must only be on productive enterprises and people in dire need.

With the IMF continuing in this vein and Kevin following oblivious to the outcomes ,it does not auger well for us all.Why borrow from the IMF when you can create your own cyber money?

Arjay, it is UOG who preaches no interest. It is against Islam.
So they charge you in other ways.

You are free to be all gloomy and doomy, I certainly am not. In fact
where I live, in WA, a bit of a slowdown would be a good thing,
things were totally overheated before.

Meat processors, farm equipment manufacturers etc, can now maybe
find workers once more. Things had become ridiculous. The army,
hospitals, even the policeforce could not find staff. I spoke
to a crew of power workers replacing old powerpoles last week.
Nearly the whole crew were from South Africa, making great money,
as Aussies did not want the jobs. We cannot even crew our own
submarines!

Manufacturing is certainly not stuffed in the West, it has just
changed, away from making cheap consumer goods.

Japan and China have manipulated their currencies for years, to
try and get an advantage. Now they might realise that holding
suitcases full of American $ might not be what they thought it
was.

Our house prices here are still far too high, in my opinion.

Recessions lead to restructuring and change and that is well overdue
in Australia.

yaBBY QUOTE<<,why should anyone give you money interest free?>>
why would govt borrow its OWN currency?
how does the fed get off taking govt bonds to issue a govt ITS OWN MONEY?

the issue isnt that we pay ursury BUT THAT GOVT DOES

http://www.google.com.au/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=gd&q=creature+from+jeckle+island&hl=en-GB&rls=MEDA,MEDA:2008-36,MEDA:en-GB

bankers..STOLE GOVT's RIGHT TO ISSUE ITS OWN MONEY

today,govt issues a bond,offereing intrest to the fed,the fed issues their franchised exclusive fiat,and govt collects the fiat via taxes to repay a loan,any fiat returns to the fed,and the fed re-issues it or gives credit of their fiat to others

we didnt have tax pre fed fiat,..govts held gold and silver,but when the worlds feds took over the RIGHT to issue unlimeted fiat it stole the gold[and by 66 the silver from govt issued coin]

fed fiat was deemed legal tender,and only fed fiat,issued and controled by the fed..[the fed ruled over by banking cartels,and headed by the rothchild dynisty

that via unlimeted credit has bought up all the real assets[gold silver property and shares,and created mega corperations they control]

they used low ursury[low bank rates for their mates,and boom and bust to make the middle classes poor for the rest,your part of the rest]

>> Money devalues over time, due to inflation,so compensation is justified.>>MATE INFLATION IS WHEN THE FED CREATES too much fiat,ie it gets too greedy[cause people didnt return it to the bank[ie the fed]

BORROWING FIAT ONLY CREATES fiat-debt[to repay the ursury some one else needs to default..[thats all those who get bankrupted into poverty]

>>..interest free home loan,so that you can make a killing for yourself later on,all tax free?<<mate you think your going to be allowed to keep your home[you dont even have legal title to it..lol]

[your bank does it allows you to think you own it,but the plain reality is they do[they stil hold your mortgauge note[the one you signed to get your loan[did they return the origonal contract to you?[NO,they securitised it][thus you never get back its free and clear title]

>>Human greed knows no bounds...those who fail,
just blame the system<<...bankers are human..get it?

One under God,you certainly love debate and your passionate about the poor do you donate to any organisation like the salvos, doctors without borders etc, i do that way i can contribute in some way towards the injustices in the world.
There was mention of the Islamic Bank..they do lend to customers interest free, goodness me something outside the greedy banks i find it quite refreshing.
Footnote: rest assured i am not a conspirator and i dont run with the crowd either.
Happy debating old chap

Yabby,agree house prices are over inflated.Mine by at least $200,000.00 Young people are being enticed into buying again with Kevin's enticement of $20,000.00.This is pure folly by both govt and home buyers.This again is Govt not looking beyond the present.They should looking for ways of producing cheaper housing not inflating existing limited stocks

Just go to youtube and see the interview between Gerald Celente and Glen Beck. Celente predicted this mess.Celente is articulate,has good grasp of economics and logic you cannot flaw.

I hope too as Glen Beck said,"I hope to God that you are wrong!"

Arjay, I don't do Utube, as I have mobile broadband where I live,
which means 1Gig per month. Many people predicted a mess,
even the Economist went on about it for years. The thing is,
many things have now finally come together and need unwinding and
sorting out. As Warren Buffett says "Its only when the tide goes out,
that we see who is swimming naked"

General Motors and Chrysler have been hovering on the verge of bankrupcy for ages.
This present situation is bringing things to
a head much quicker. The US Steel industry went through a similar
crisis some twenty years ago, it came out meaner, leaner
and stronger. Detroit needs to do the same. 75 US$ an hour for
labour costs, is simply not sustainable.

Everyone is blaming banks, but in fact the largest losses have
been sustained by an insurance company, AIG. It was not even their
insurance business that was the problem, but a small derivatives
trading division in London, that sustained all the losses.

So called "investment banks", as those who did crash, are not really
banks at all, but money trading houses. Quite different from
your everyday deposit bank, of which there are roughly 8000 in the
US.

You are correct about houses and Kevin is just putting sticky tape
on the problem for electoral gain, not dealing with the core of the
problem.

Fact is that because Australians have no incentive to save, our
banks have to find half their funds overseas at much higher cost.
Domestic interest rates might be low and banks have been put under
pressure to lend that out for cheap housing loans. But they are
paying higher rates for money from overseas, to lend to business
customers, farmers etc, who don't have the political pressure, so
pay through the nose. You can't blame the banks either, if
overseas funds cost them 8%, they can't lend it out for 6%.

But all this is papered over in the name of politics, it is not
dealing with the fundamental problem at hand.

money is created in the fed and ends up in the fed

ok the fed orders the mint to print it, but the order comes from the fed[and only the fed]

same with every dollar issued by the fed , gets returned to the fed[who then give you credit for the fed fiat]

its time people knew the fed doubled our money supply[funny when you realise at the same time howhard claims to have redeemed all the govt bonds[we presume],

dont we assume that getting rid of govt debt means govt got their bonds back?...lol

yeah ya think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mN31uXc-kE

ok
here is what the fed did with those fiats
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK7fz2Gka5k&feature=related
the same all the feds do, to retain parity with each other's fiat currencies , but all are owned by the same cartel[globally]

its a great scam ,i should comment that houses are over priced but they retain the same value in gold[its only the fiat that goes up and up [ever more fiat to buy the same thing]

we feel great when we get a pay increase, but the reality is the same return is got for more money[the more we get the higher a fiat currency price we need to pay], but because wages dont keep pace that our fixed wages buy is ever less

see we arnt even given real inflation numbers, because we hear howhard claim medium/average wage, that gets scewed up because the elites wage increase cancells out the poverty working mans wage decrease

[so the average goes up [but the lower wage ever lower]but soon we will all be poor, then you might just open your ears and eyes to see the poor side of the coin

before they removed the copper coin it cost 5 cents in copper for a two cent piece[were our twenty cent piece still real silver [not cupro-nickle]it would be worth two bucks,

coin is the ONLT constitutionally legal tender[fiat paper is only legal because govt made it legal tender for all debt [but govt dont own it] the fed reserve banking cartel does

One Under God.What we have to do is create awareness.The first thing not to do is an Alex Jones and have Banksters under everyone's bed.Follow Ron Paul and argue from the high moral ground of the US Constitution.Audit the Fed and thus create awareness.

People in their present frame of mind even when presented with the evidence,will not believe that Obama is a puppet of the Banksters, since the reality after tolerating Bush is just too much to bare.

arjay we really dont have to do anything,in time the bankers excess is revealed all by itself, i do need to make a few corrections

blackwattle,quote>>..There was mention of the Islamic Bank..they do lend to customers interest free,goodness me something outside the greedy banks i find it quite refreshing.>>

ok they reportedly have no intrest but as i understand it they require a share of the proffits[but also share the losses],i understand israelies have much the same thing[despite the ursury thing comming from their religious texts

thing is they dont charge each other ursury,but can charge ursury to the goy[non jew]...thus rothchild was able to franchise out high intrest loans and take over the banking sysatem

>>Footnote:rest assured i am not a conspirator and i dont run with the crowd either.>> i didnt infur[or mean to infure any such thing]

arjay quote>>..house prices are over inflated.>>the price is what it is[the real problem is under supply [and govt tax deductability for investors, that advantages the investor[and disadvantages the rentor[then govt subsidy on rent;rent assistance compounds the issue

FIRST HOMEBUYERS>>being enticed into buying again with Kevin's enticement of $20,000.00.>>is yet another issue that compounds the issue[but far worse is the 20 billion subsidy for super that props up an inflated stovk market[the steady cash income inflates todays share prices[compounded by the fact the pension scemes dont hold the shares[see previous post]because they leverage

>>This is pure folly>> yep


>>as Glen Beck said,"I hope to God that you are wrong!">> he may have said it but the dude plays both sides...[i prefer alex jones,he may be over the top but consistant..[beck does too much self promoting but said the oppisite as well..thus when the tide goes in[or out]he puts up a clip to say i told you so...lol

Ah, there is of course nothing like a good conspiracy theory,
to keep the masses occupied and off the streets :)

Never mind the fact that Reserve banks pay their profits back
to their treasuries, we'll just kind of conveniently forget all
that. Never mind, the sound reasons why they were set up in the
first place, ie to keep politicians honest and at arms length.

Yup, the poor must be being ripped off!

A couple of points. I gather that last year around 1 million
wide screens were sold in Australia, so people are not really
doing it tough, so to speak.

Secondly, if you really want to help the poor, so shut down
those pokies. For it is the poor who cannot help themselves
and throw billions of $ a year down those machines, not the rich.

2008 number[for all=feds]
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/other/20090109a.htm
the only income recorded is from govt-securities[not the other trillions lent to national banks,on credit cards bankloans mortgauges and exchanged between other feds]LOL

besides howhard paid OFF the debt[thus in oz...NO GOVT SECURITIES GIVE ANY INCOME FROM THE FED[cause john claims to have paid them all off...lol]

now rudd has lent 40 billion the expected take is what?
how much loans did fed underwrite..[collect ursury on?..last year alone]

http://www.statusisfreedom.com/news/financial_crisis.htm
But,you already knew this

You will end up jobless,homeless and without the means to survive.

Wisdom is the principal thing;therefore get wisdom:
and with all your getting,get understanding.”
(Proverbs 4:7)

Quotes from Ayn Rand's,"Atlas Shrugged",1957
When you see that in order to produce,you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing -

When you see that money is flowing to those who deal,not in goods,but in favors -

When you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work,and your laws don’t protect you against them,but protect them against you -

When you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice -

http://www.thinkfree.ca/images/13things.pdf

There's no way to rule innocent men.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals.

Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.

One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens?What's there in that for anyone?

But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law-breakers-and then you cash in on guilt.

Now,that's the system,that's the game,and once you understand it,you'll be much easier to deal with."

I don't want you to risk On the other hand,I cannot advise you to compromise with evil just to save your life.
http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/2008/04/bushs-conspiracy-to-create-american_2077.html

For those of you who decide to take a stand,may the Holy Spirit comfort you in your persecution

http://www.usa-the-republic.com/mark%20of%20beast/toc.htm
http://www.jurisdictionary.com

If you want Justice, learn the Rules!
http://1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/index.html#procedure
UNDERSTANDING JURISDICTION

http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/Rules/draft/cr103_30_700_02.pdf

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=84.34.108

For those interested, two URLs from our own Reserve bank, showing
what happens to profits, when and how they are paid back to
treasury. So much for the fruitloop conspiracy theories.

http://www.rba.gov.au/PublicationsAndResearch/RBAAnnualReports/2005/Pdf/earnings_distribution.pdf

That one is clearer about amounts paid each year etc.

http://www.rba.gov.au/PublicationsAndResearch/RBAAnnualReports/2003/Pdf/variability_of_reserve_bank_profits.pdf

That one is a little more complex, explaining the risk and losses
on foreign currency that the bank has to wear.

fed MALFEASANCE

quote>>Central banking tends to be profitable because a
proportion of assets can be funded[read-paid_for]by issuing currency notes,<<..not for govt

>>rather than interest-paying liabilities such as deposits.<<like govts do?

>>About half the RBA’s assets are funded by..issue of currency<<..a great lurk,..not proffitable for govt having to pay intrest on/bonds issued to the fed,..but printing money thats gotta be good for those running the fed...lol..[govt 1 percent kickback hardly reflects the what if;of govt doing its own issue..of its own currency..for free]

<<(the rest is funded from deposits/from banks and governments and from capital<<deposits get intrest[likely more that the mere one percent given to govt..lol

<<A less favourable characteristic of central banking..is that it carries a high degree of risk.<<..lol..issueing currency has risk..[what about the adbantage in having centralised/controle over ALL THE ISSUEING FEDS?]

>>..central banks are required to hold large amounts of
securities denominated in domestic and foreign currency in order to carry out their responsibilities<<currency swaps to tweak exchange rates..securities that turned in the billion proffit?..securities like that govts/bonds have to give to the vairious feds of the world to get its funds?

>>..which exposes them to market risk.>>>>yet they the worlds feds run the whole scam]by issuing/exchanging more[or]less currency as they chose!

<<This is the risk that interest/rates and-or exchange/rates will move in a way which will adversely affect the value of assets>>can easilly be controled by the feds SETTING INTREST RATES AS THEY CHOSE AT MEETINGS OF THE FED BOARDS..to whatever the market will bear..lol

>>Underlying earnings accrue from the fact that interest earnings on assets exceed interest payments on liabilities.This occurs because.a substantial proportion of liabilities is in the form of currency notes,>>lol well give govt back their notes..lol

>>on which no interest is payable.>>if you borrow them[rent them from the fed]lol

>>Liabilities in the form of capital also do not involve any interest payments.<<not if you own the feds

>>In contrast,virtually all the financial assets held earn interest.>>yeah govt bonds tend to pay intrest..lol

yeah because the feds upvalue its worth in devalued/fiat valuation,so the same assets cost ever more..lol

Yabby we are not talking about our RBA.The RBA is owned by the Govt but acts primarily as a independant body.They do however tend to over inflate our money.Our Banks are far more sound as a result of this more enlightened system.Our drawback is that we do borrow from this Global Reserve Banking system that depreciates our currency.

People generally do not want to hear negative things about Obama.He is engaging in the folly of Gordon Brown,borrowing more and using tax payer's money to bail out institutions that should be bankrupted.

extract from
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/the-geithner-summers-plan_b_183499.html

the Geithner-Summers banking plan could potentially and unnecessarily transfer hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth from taxpayers to banks.The same basic arithmetic was later described by Joseph Stiglitz in the New York Times(April 1)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/opinion/01stiglitz.html?scp=2&sq=stiglitz&st=cse

and by Peyton Young in the Financial Times (April 1).

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3e985de0-1ee7-11de-a748-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F3e985de0-1ee7-11de-a748-00144feabdc0.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ft.com%2Fsearch%3FqueryText%3Dpeyton%2Byoung%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26aje%3Dtrue%26dse%3D%26dsz%3D
In fact,the situation is even potentially more disastrous than we wrote.Insiders can easily game the system created by Geithner and Summers to cost up to a trillion dollars or more to the taxpayers.

Here's how.Consider a toxic asset held by Citibank with a face value of $1 million but with zero probability of any payout and therefore with a zero market value.

An outside bidder would not pay anything for such an asset.All of the previous articles consider the case of true outside bidders.

Suppose,however,that Citibank itself sets up a Citibank Public-Private Investment Fund(CPPIF)under the Geithner-Summers plan.

The CPPIF will bid the full face value of $1 million for the worthless asset,because it can borrow $850K from the FDIC,and get $75K from the Treasury,to make the purchase!Citibank will only have to put in $75K of the total.

Citibank thereby receives $1 million for the worthless asset,while the CPPIF ends up with an utterly worthless asset against $850K in debt to the FDIC.The CPPIF therefore quietly declares bankruptcy, while Citibank walks away with a cool $1 million.

Citibank's net profit on the transaction is $925K(remember that the bank invested $75K in the CPPIF)and the taxpayers lose $925K.

Since the total of toxic assets in the banking system exceeds $1 trillion,and perhaps reaches $2-3 trillion,the amount of potential rip-off in the Geithner-Summers plan is unconscionably large.

The earlier criticisms of the Geithner-Summers plan showed that even outside bidders generally have the incentive to bid far too much for the toxic assets,since they too get a free ride from the government loans.

But once we acknowledge the insider-bidding route,the potential to game the plan at the cost of the taxpayers becomes extraordinary.

plenty more links at articles
http://www.infowars.com/fed-said-to-order-banks-to-stay-mum-on-stress-test-results/
http://www.infowars.com/the-geithner-summers-plan-is-even-worse-than-thought/

from
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22396.htm

The committee agrees...

...Subsidization,carries the risk of distorting the market(by keeping assets artificially high and creating a constant drain on government resources...Subsidization tends to create hobbled banks that continue to languish...as wards of the state.

Liquidation,conservatorship and government subsidization;these are the three ways to fix the banking system....Geithner's plan is not a plan at all;.

"Treasury’s approach fails to acknowledge the depth of the current downturn and the degree to which the low valuation of troubled assets accurately reflects their worth.

The actions undertaken by Treasury,the Federal Reserve Board and the FDIC are unprecedented.But if the economic crisis is deeper than anticipated,it is possible that Treasury will need to take very different actions in order to restore financial stability."

This is a crucial point;the toxic assets are not going to regain their value because their current market price--30 cents on the dollar for AAA mortgage-backed securities--accurately reflects the amount of risk they bear.

The market is right and Geithner is wrong;it's that simple.

No one can say with any certainty what they are really worth...So, why is Geithner being kept on at Treasury when his plan has already been thoroughly discredited...his only goal is to bailout the banks through underhanded means?

"The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States.....the finance industry has effectively captured our government....that more typically describes emerging markets,and is at the center of many emerging-market crises.

If the IMF's staff could speak freely about the U.S.,it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation recovery will fail unless we break...the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform.

if we are to prevent a true depression we're running out of time."(The Atlantic Monthly, May 2009, by Simon Johnson)

The banks have a stranglehold on the political process.

Many of their foot soldiers now occupy the highest offices in government.

..the silent coup that has taken place..do whatever needs to be done to purge the moneylenders from the seat of power and restore representative government...and time is running out.



* http://cop.senate.gov/reports/library/report-040709-cop.cfm
8 minute video summary of the COP report.

ok an interesting update on the whole imf /fed resreve g20 20 cfr scam
http://cuttingthroughthematrix.net/radio/Alan_Watt_CTTM_Live_on_RBN.html

not sure how long it will be up for
but he is worth hearing, pretty much anytime
has a web site [just google his name and cutting through the matrix
he also has written transcripts at the site

anyhow read or listen[or not]
its up to you

*People generally do not want to hear negative things about Obama.He is engaging in the folly of Gordon Brown,borrowing more and using tax payer's money to bail out institutions that should be bankrupted.*

Arjay, that is wonderful in theory, perhaps not so good in practise,
for good reasons. Obama, Geithner and Summers are clearly trying
to clear up the mess created by George and Dick. The hand they
were left is a pretty crook one.

When Lehman went broke, the global financial system came pretty
close to collapse. The problem is all those falling dominoes and
how things interact. The problem with banking is that if you close
down some of these major banks, everything stops.

How many companies or individuals could survive for a few months,
without access to their bank accounts? The reality is that the
whole economy would stop in its tracks. No food this week,
the bank is closed. How long would you last?

So Geithner and Summers are seeing the big picture here. As it it,
investors in crook banks have already lost their money, Citibank
was down to 1$ just a few days ago. The American Govt now effectively
owns alot of these banks, but nationalisation is not acceptable to
Americans, so they don't do it officially. Given that the Govt
will be paid profits from banking, that money might well be returned
to taxpayers, for everyday banking is still profitable.

Next point, right now it is impossible to value anything accurately.
What would your house be worth, if buyers had no access to bank
finance? 50 Grand cash perhaps? That is the problem with mark
to market accounting, as applies right now.

The core of all this goes back to politics, not banking. You need
regulators who want to enforce the rules, unlike Cox, George and
Dick. Secondly you need to get rid of jingle mail, where people
are not responsible for their debts, if house values fall.
Thirdly synthetic CDOs need some kind of regulation, or they
create a tzunami, as many have noted.

Elizabeth Warren talks logic and common sense. You are right UOG the corporate banking system has a stranglehold on power in the USA Europe and the UK.They are just throwing good money after bad and it is now time the liquidate the toxic assets rather than taxing the life out of people in a shrinking economy.

There will be a lot more revolts like those in Thailand.If Govts won't act,then the people will.

Pentagon Preps for Economic Warfare..on how hostile nations might seek to cripple the U.S. economy,

The two-day event near Ft. Meade,Maryland,had all the earmarks of a regular war game.Participants sat along a V-shaped set of desks beneath an enormous wall of video monitors displaying economic data,

instead of military brass plotting America’s defense,it was hedge-fund managers,professors and executives from at least one investment bank, UBS –all invited by the Pentagon to play out global scenarios that could shift the balance of power between the world’s leading economies.

Their efforts were carefully observed and recorded by uniformed military officers and members of the U.S. intelligence community.

In the end,there was sobering news for the United States–the savviest economic warrior proved to be China,a growing economic power that strengthened its position the most over the course of the war-game.

The United States remained the world’s largest economy but significantly degraded its standing in a series of financial skirmishes with Russia,participants said.

“Why would the military care about global capital flows at all?” asked another person who was there.“Because as the global financial crisis plays out,there could be real world consequences,including failed states.We’ve already seen riots in the United Kingdom and the Balkans.”

The Office of the Secretary of Defense hosted the two-day event March 17 and 18 at the Warfare Analysis Laboratory in Laurel,MD.That facility,run by the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory,

The event was unclassified but has not been made public before...Said Steven Halliwell,managing director of a hedge fund called River Capital Management,“I’m not prepared to talk about this...I’m sorry,but I can’t talk to you.”

Officials at UBS also declined to comment.

There were five teams:The United States,Russia,China,East Asia and“all others....”They were overseen by a “White Cell” group that functioned as referees,...lol..who decided the impact of the moves made by each team as they struggled for economic dominance.>>READ THE worlds FED RESERVE's

>>At the end of the two days,the Chinese team emerged as the victors of the overall game–largely because the Russian and American teams had made so many moves against each other that they damaged their own standing

some authoritive updates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5YAzvGmdF4

Regulators have shut down Cape Fear Bank,the first North Carolina bank to collapse since 1993,and the 22nd U.S.bank to fail this year.

On Friday,the small Wilmington N.C.bank was closed by state regulators and taken over by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

First Federal Savings and Loan Association of Charleston in Charleston,S.C. was chosen to assume all of Cape Fear Bank’s $403 million in deposits and buy about $468 million of its $492 million in assets...The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.,which was named receiver of Cape Fear Bank on Friday,will retain the rest of the assets to sell later...

..The list of bank failures keeps growing as home prices fall and unemployment rises,causing more individuals and businesses to default on their debt.

The state of North Carolina had not seen a bank failure,though, since May of 1993,when Crown National Bank of Charlotte, N.C.,went belly-up.

The FDIC estimated that the collapse of Cape Fear Bank will reduce the federal deposit insurance fund by $131 million.As of the end of 2008,the fund stood at $18.9 billion —the lowest level in nearly a quarter-century,and down from $52.4 billion at the end of 2007.

The FDIC expects that bank failures will cost the insurance fund a total of around $65 billion through 2013.The agency has increased fees and premiums in an effort to replenish the fund.

At the end of 2008,the FDIC had 252 banks and thrifts on its list of troubled institutions,up from 171 in the third quarter of last year.

Leading Credit Default Swap Trader:..Justifications for CDS are Phony
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/04/leading-credit-default-swap-trader.html

The unpalatable reality that very few,self interested industry participants are prepared to admit is that much of what passed for financial innovation was specifically designed to conceal risk,obfuscate investors and reduce transparency.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13109

The process was entirely deliberate.Efficiency and transparency are not consistent with the high profit margins that are much sought after on Wall Street.
http://www.wimp.com/bailoutstruth/
Financial products need to be opaque and priced inefficiently to produce excessive profits or economic rents
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/starting-tomorrow-the-second-american-revolution-33129

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/04/nationwide-tax-revolt-is-coming.html
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=494
did the fed?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123811225716453243.html
Meltdown Should Have Surprised No One
http://blog.mises.org/archives/009620.asp

lets swap my basd debt [for your bad debt and call it a trade]
we both get commision and got our bad asset off our books[into yours
then get my mate to insure it [via AIG] [in case of ongoing default..lol

AIG in spotlight over derivatives
(Financial Times)

The unit that all but destroyed AIG has failed to sign up for the overhaul of the global derivatives market which was given added impetus by the troubles at the US insurance group.

AIG confirmed that its financial products unit, whose soured bets on credit default swaps forced the company into government hands last year, did not adopt the “Big Bang” protocol that has been signed by more than 2,000 market participants.

The protocol, created under the auspices of International Swaps & Derivatives Association, is intended to make it easier for investors in the opaque market for credit derivatives to know what will happen to their contracts if debt defaults occur. It came into force on Wednesday.

AIG Financial Products opted to eschew the protocol and make bilateral agreements with counterparties on more than 200 outstanding derivatives trades.

People close to the situation said the highly complex nature of many of AIG FP’s trades, particularly the credit default swaps on mortgage-backed securities, made it easier to negotiate with individual counterparties rather than adopt a catch-all protocol.

“We fully intend to adhere to the protocol but for technical reasons have decided to do so through bilateral agreements with our counterparties,” AIG said. Company officials added that for simpler transactions, such as CDSs written on individual corporate bonds, AIG FP would adopt a contract similar to the protocol.

AIG FP’s move raised eyebrows, with worries that because AIG is not a signatory to the new credit derivatives regime, it could choose not to abide by a credit event ruling.

Senior bankers and AIG downplay AIG FP’s absence from the protocol as the unit unwinds its legacy positions, runs down its portfolio and is no longer an active participant in the market.

UOG, I am not sure what your point is. AIG is now largely
owned by the US Govt and it was derivatives which caused the
disaster, as we know with hindsight.

The CEO responsible for the disaster is gone. The new guy
is working for 1$ a year and it is his job to unravel the
mess and unwind the positions which they still have in the
market.

The reason that AIG was not sunk is because they are also
responsible for millions of Americans pension plans etc,
so the best that they can do right now, is minimise the
damage.

Once again George Bush's regulators were asleep and it
has been left to the Obama administration to sort out
the mess.

yabby if you read the links you know the same democ-rats who first changed the rules re dirivitives are now furthering the scam they began[sure busche took it to greater heights,but this is a 2 party scam[of many acts but featuring the same actors]

so lets see aig HAD your yanki pension..[well that went broke]..so now govt is underwriting the pension..[lol]..if you read the links they reveal the scam stole the pension funds..[via derivitives created by the 3 rating agencies who rated cccrap[bad debt]as AAA grade securities[under written by your yanki pension,..now made bankrupt[now holding trillions of worthless debt swap derivitives]bad trades made good commisions but commited many vile crimes

the fox is running the hen-house bro[thats what all the links are saying[the total bubble is in the quadrilions]..will take literally trillions just to refloat the boat[and guess who is going to pay for it all via the neo[new]carbon derivitives tax,..yes those same fools who just lost their pensions...lol[plus you and mne who wil be paying CARBON-tax baSED ON A HUGE LIE]

A LINK I MIGHT POST TOMORROW..IS ABOUT HOW THEY ARE EMPLOYING A PR BLOGGER site TO REBUT VIA rebutting BLOG posts on the topic[you got a new con-tract?..looking for a job?..i will put up the link tomorrow

but then again who cares right[just think i could get paid for doing nothing..lol]..trouble is when you see vile and dont try to stop it your getting as dirty as the real criminals...

i put more value on my soul than that..anyhow cheers.. i wish things were as simple as you say

saw a kids show today [kids blowing bubbles that float on dry ice[seems the dry ice is co2] and the bubbles float on it because the oxygen is lighter that co2..

[so how come all that co2 is told us to float up there?..[when co2 is heavier than air..[go figure..[out of the mouth of babes the co2 tax scam is revealed and reviled]

the people/sheeple really are dumb[deserve to get fleeced]but i just dont agree that they earned that treasonous sir-vice from those meant to serve

UOG, ah of course, it is all a conspiracy, they are all gangsters,
every word on every website that you quote must be true.

UOG, to put it diplomatically, I trust more intelligent people
then you for my information :)

Sorry, the world is not about to end tomorrow lol.

It's called: Preparation to The New World Order
http://www.jeremiahproject.com/newworldorder

great link bro

ok the grand plan
revealed, recall how wealthy argentina, how argentinian treason via imf made argentina sell off their public resources[only for the capitalists to close off the banking system over night

sending the ritchest country bankrupt, like recently iceland and zimbawe, well the grand plan is next usa..ok here is what went down last time

part 3 of 3 parts
#but hey go back to sleep
nothing you can do about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN9WhFSnkls

http://www.infowars.com/the-great-geithner-coverup/
The Great Geithner Coverup

YouTube..Economist William K.Black pulls no punches in spelling out who is really responsible for our current economic disaster,and why Geithner is leading the charge to keep the truth covered up.

Bank of England, Sterling and Government Treason
http://www.infowars.com/bank-of-england-sterling-and-government-treason/
Mike Robinson.The Bank of England was originally set up as a core part of the British Empire.making huge profits from loans to the British East India Company and other tendrils of the Great British parasite.

http://www.infowars.com/china-slows-purchases-of-us-and-other-bonds/

http://www.infowars.com/luke-rudkowski-on-russia-today-us-media-doesnt-want-truth/

http://www.infowars.com/dutch-publication-prince-bernhard-was-deeply-involved-in-weapons-trade/

http://www.infowars.com/self-righteous-neocon-republicans-complain-about-dhs-report/
Malkin, Gingrich,Weiner,Hannity and the rest really do not have a problem with government assessments formulated in secret,..so long as they are directed against their political enemies.

http://www.infowars.com/national-guard-on-alert-for-tea-party-protests/

http://www.infowars.com/goldman-sachs-tries-to-shut-down-financial-blogger/
WHY..HOW?
How did Goldman do it?

Well, as Floyd Norris..chief financial correspondent for the New York Times..explains,Goldman simply didn't report results for December 2008,..a month in which it took huge write-downs.

Its easy to look profitable when you can cook the books .

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/04/how-goldman-posted-profitable-quarter.html

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/04/dont-fall-for-old-divide-and-conquer.html
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

It Is Time to Dissolve All Central Banks
http://www.prisonplanet.com/it-is-time-to-dissolve-all-central-banks.html
As previously noted, the Federal Reserve has failed on its own terms. Specifically, it has failed to provide the counter-cyclical influence on the economy which is its very justification for existing in the first place.

Fed’s Kohn, Dudley Defend Size, Scope of Emergency Loan Plans
http://www.prisonplanet.com/fed%e2%80%99s-kohn-dudley-defend-size-scope-of-emergency-loan-plans.html

Two of the Federal Reserve’s top policy makers defended the Fed’s emergency lending, saying the programs won’t cause an inflationary surge or create “significant” risk for taxpayers.



Fannie Mae Exec Chosen to Oversee TARP: White House
http://www.prisonplanet.com/fannie-mae-exec-chosen-to-oversee-tarp-white-house.html
The executive chosen to lead Fannie Mae through a government takeover has been tapped to oversee the $700 billion rescue of the U.S. financial system, the White House said Friday.



Summer 2009: The international monetary system’s breakdown is underway

If we believe US leaders and their scores of media experts, China is only dreaming of remaining a prisoner, and even of intensifying the severity of its prison conditions by buying always more US T-Bonds and Dollars.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/summer-2009-the-international-monetary-system%e2%80%99s-breakdown-is-underway.html

OBAMA’S NEW WORLD ORDER? Frightening 150 Page Report into Obama's New World Order. Report is Under Threat of being Taken Offline. Must See Now.
http://www.antichristidentity.com/

MONEY WATCH ARCHIVE
http://www.prisonplanet.com/section/money-watch