The Forum > General Discussion > Do we REALLY want to declare war on Criminals?
Do we REALLY want to declare war on Criminals?
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Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 24 March 2009 3:14:01 PM
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HB: The daily reality of the Australian drug trade is that the only reason hard and recreational drugs are supplied through similar sources is the Law itself, making grass illegal lumps it together with the hard drugs. And if you look closely, the Bikies don't trade much in it at all, it's too bulky, and there's far more profit in the harder drugs.
Many many grass dealers won't touch the hard stuff, the same applies to their customers. Remove the legal link and you remove that link too. As I said earlier, that Law is only a part of the reason a lot of people have lost respect for the whole legal system. Corruption, privilege, media hype, all contribute, as well as other factors. Look you to Holland. Grass is largely legal there, within certain boundaries. They have the lowest hard-drug addiction levels of the entire western world, and the junkies they do have a largely left-overs from prohibition days, their average age is in the 40's, in Oz and elsewhere it's in the 20's. And strangely enough, they also have the lowest usage rates for grass amongst their young, take away the thrill of "naughtiness", and the youth don't take to it so readily. As for the reasons put forward for it's proscription, look at the rest of the world, there are places it's been consumed for centuries, even possibly millenia, the Middle East, India, Asia, where are the horrible effects, the birth defects, the insanity, all the other bs attributed to it's usage? Most Australians know people who smoke it these days, some for decades, and live positive, productive lives. When those "experts" start railing against it and proclaim it's horrors, Aussies look to their family or friends or neighbours, and see that it's largely untrue, yet again reducing respect for the system. Lets not even mention alcohol, an addictive, poisonous, destructive drug, yet not only legal, it funds our Sports and quite a bit else. Making a medical/psychological argument against grass begs the question, why not ban alcohol too? It's far far worse a drug, no contest. Posted by Maximillion, Tuesday, 24 March 2009 4:19:02 PM
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Using the term 'war' on anything is pure propaganda hype. This is a huge problem and by all accounts a growing one. While law enforcement will always be needed to varying degrees, the root causes of crime continue to be ignored.
Why has the crime rate increased? Why is gang violence on the increase? If we can find the cause we are closer to finding the cure. I was listening to a Muslim fellow on an Ethnic affairs program recently who talked about the disenfranchisement of young middle-eastern males who are attracted to gangs for the sense of 'family' or brotherhood and strong support structure. The sort of support and acceptances they perceive as lacking in the wider community. Give a boy a man's job and he will generally take up the responsibility. We should seek to include rather than exclude and that would go a long way to solving some of these issues of gang violence. On the subject of drugs mentioned previously, alcohol is already legal lets not increase our social problems by legalising grass and illicit drugs. This just makes it commonplace, we think nothing of having a drink now and then, I would hate to see the same nonchalance about drug use. Just visit a few hospital wards to experience the increase in the incidence of schizophrenia and early-onset dementia in the late 20s age-group to be fully put off the whole idea. Posted by pelican, Thursday, 26 March 2009 7:22:49 PM
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Sorry Pelican, but I think you're just repeating the propaganda put out by the alcohol industry.
Can you prove a direct causative link between those patients and grass usage? no. Can you even show, let alone prove, that they wouldn't have ended up there anyway if they hadn't smoked? no. As I said above, look to the countries where it's use is centuries old, where are the victims? Sorry, that hype just doesn't bear close examination. If you look closely, every single one of them has been drinking water all their lives, it's statistically obvious that water causes their problems, isn't it? Or try breathing, toilet use, listening to music, take your pick, they're far more statistically likely to be the cause than grass, lol. As for your thoughts on the youth/gang/crime problem, I actually agree with you there, and it's not just ethnic, it's across the board, and I think it is a result of our modern ego-centric society, we just abandon our youth to the winds, and hope for the best. Given the harsh realities of the capitalist system and the unreal expectations foisted on them by the education system and the consumer society, it's a recipe for disaffection. And what does the government focus on? Punishing the victims of that sorry state of affairs, instead of, as you say, solving the causes. Posted by Maximillion, Thursday, 26 March 2009 8:34:37 PM
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Max
I respect your views and have had many tussles with other OLO particpants on the drugs issue, even with those I am normally in agreeance on many other issues. I admit my experiences have shaped my views on this, and I guess you could say I have seen a biased sample - all drug addicted. However, I can tell you that the cause of these people's illnesses were absolutely drug-related. I think we are long past the debate on this with medical research having proved a causative link with marijuana for those who are genetically succeptible. As for the obvious effects of other illicit drugs like ICE, there can be no doubt of the awful consequences. There are many links to the research. http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2402434.htm Alcohol is also a drug but it is legalised and that is exactly my point. Once something is legalised it is difficult to decriminalise it. We could do more such as banning alcohol sponsorship or advertising but I don't see that happening in the short term due to monetary interests but we live in hope. Your comments are spot on about youth. There is so much more to this debate than OLO allows on word limits, but so much of our economy is based on the workforce and 'working families' (growth economics) rather than just on families and providing nuturing foundations for our kids. Posted by pelican, Thursday, 26 March 2009 10:05:48 PM
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I would just remind you of how drug wars can get out of hand as in Mexico.