Customers in a Krispy Kreme doughnut shop in Brisbane were appalled to witness a police officer demanding free doughnuts and getting into a heated argument with staff when they weren’t forthcoming! [from this weekend’s Courier Mail]

Krispy Kreme has been supplying free doughnuts to police for a long time. These were apparently left-overs at the end of the day that failed to sell. They’ve stopped supplying them as a result of this argument and the embarrassing publicity.

The police officer has rightly been reprimanded by his colleagues and understandably vilified in the media and heavily criticised by the public.

But what about Krispy Kreme for giving out the freebies, or the police for accepting them? Aren’t they both guilty of serious wrong-doing?

Isn’t it very important that the police don’t receive gifts, favours or any form of advantage from anyone, as a matter of principle?

The police have enormous discretionary powers. It is of fundamental importance that they exercise them without bias, and are seen to do so.

Even something as seemingly benign as free doughnuts for flabby coppers could be seen…and I’d suggest should be seen….as a serious infringement.

Or is it just good practice to dish out little freebies and favours for the folk in blue, in the interests of keeping the peace with the constabulary?

Ludwig,
Sadly the donuts and cops is reflection of US cop shows.
But you are right it is a breach of their ‘discipline’.
Trivial as free donuts are.

To me there three issues here the first is a policeman demanding freebees (arguing for an entitlement?) the police rules are clear and absolute this is soliciting favours.

The second is that police as individuals apparently accepting them. Accepting bribes?
To me the police while in uniform should behave in a scrupulous manner especially when public opinion of the police as a whole is on display. It is a truism of note that a police force can’t do its role effectively without the confidence of the public.

When off duty be careful not to use their position to reinforce their personal issues. e. g. The POLICEWOMAN THAT IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS SUCH to enhance her credibility at a hysterical meeting against a monitored paedophile 15ks from where she lived.

KKD should if they want to give them to the police they should do so to the sergeant on duty at the desk for distribution at his discretion. In this way the link is broken between offer and acceptance and therefore the reasonable expectation of reciprocal favours.

Krispy Kreme is but one of many fast food outlets that supplies free food to police. It has been going on for years and unless a new directive is laid down stringently by police authorities in consultation with fast food outlets that the practice is to desist, it will probably continue unabated.

In general public servants have been warned off even accepting lunch invitations from prospective tenderers or where there might be a conflict of interest. The same should apply to police. I should add that I don't think the police see the practice as a bribe - more a thank-you for doing a difficult job.

Give them the doughnuts...
They get chucked out at the end of the day anyway.
Every job has its perks, and if all they're asking
for is doughnuts, I say, "Bon Apetite!"

Playfully ask, don't demand. Plenty of occupations give you the potential for gratuities without seriously compromising your integrity eg: free donuts.

If they say "don't worry about it" when you're handing over the cash, fair enough, but don't expect it.

Foxy, don’t you think that favours beget favours?

Some (probably many) police would be inclined to give favourable treatment to those who supply them with perks compared to those who don’t hand out any freebies, all else being equal.

Given that the police have such extraordinarily wide-ranging discretionary powers, to the point that they can haul someone up on the most minimal misdemeanour or turn a blind eye to quite serious infringements, it is of the utmost importance that they not get any form of favourable treatment.

Even if the police are entirely neutral when dealing with issues regarding those who have supplied favours, there will be a perception of bias in the eyes of those who know that they have been getting favours.

So I say, don’t give the cops the doughnuts.

The other problem with this sort of thing is that businesses might come to feel that they have to provide the cops with some sort of freebies if there is a lot of that sort of thing happening, for the fear of running foul of the cops if they ever commit some minor infringement or of having the cops fail to act if ever they need them to investigate any unlawful action perpetrated against them.

This is where it can become similar to paying Mafia-style protection money.

The general rule would be no gratuities, but like I said, many occupations open you up to that sorts of thing...

Mafia style stand over because of donuts?, please, one complaint and the officer will get reprimanded like the case in question. A donut here, a cappuccino there, what's the harm?.

A free item is usually given in appreciation, not in expectancy from a business. Some people ACTUALLY DO appreciate the job many others do.

If a business thinks they have special treatment coming in regards to criminal activity over half a dozen glazed rings of lard and sugar then they'll be receiving only weekend visits from the family fairly quickly. Discounts are COMMON practice. This cop screwed up, he'd have figured that one out by now.

Exammy.. tsk tsk tsk...all those CAPS!

*hyprocrisy meter.. CLANGG-G-G-G on overload* :)

Free doughnuts? His holiness, the cop.

Mathematicians cannot make a simple connection with a doughnut as a doughnut cannot be deformed continuously to a point.

One is reminded of an obsolete joke. Teenage girl: Mother, I can't wear your girdle. I don't have the guts.

Pretzel manufacturers make their living from crooked dough whereas doughnut manufacturers live off the fat of the land.

Why does a round pizza come in a square box?

I was gunna make a joke about giving the left-over food to the pigs. But it would probably be inappropriate.

Once upon a time there used to be a charity organization (Second Harvest I think)that picked up unsold food product and distributed it to the needy...street people...orphanages etc.
I wondered what has happened to them? or didn't they make to Brisbane.
It seems to me this is a better solution.

Dear Examinator,

Doughnuts are a nutrition free food which really shouldn't be given to charities or cops. I love them, but my wife keeps a healthy house.

Ludwig

"Even something as seemingly benign as free doughnuts for flabby coppers could be seen…and I’d suggest should be seen….as a serious infringement."

I agree totally. Just makes you wonder what else the 'flabby coppers' have their hands out for too, doesn't it?

david f

"Doughnuts are a nutrition free food which really shouldn't be given to charities or cops."

Exactly!

"I love them, but my wife keeps a healthy house."

You'll thank your dear wife one day, David!

Ah Ludwig how you stir some distant memories in me.

During the 70’s I was managing a restaurant with a restricted licence – ie. no grog to leave the premises, no grog served without consuming a meal.

In the regional town, those in the business were aware that every pub in town was supplying free liquor to the liquor “D’s.” Often the "D's" arrived with wives and friends to consume even more freebies.

When two “D’s” showed up at my cocktail bar indicating that they wanted a free drink, I refused. Their vengeance was swift. The licensee (not me) was charged because the band played 5 minutes overtime. I permitted a young couple (clearly tea-totallers) to take home a half full bottle of champagne they’d purchased during their engagement dinner etc etc.

Low and behold one evening, I attended to the needs of the Minister for Police and his entourage. They were most impressed with the Penfolds St Henri I supplied them with their meal and the Minister’s aide requested that I send some St Henri’s to the adjoining motel rooms they were occupying. They’d planned to have a night cap.

I refused, informing them of the restricted licence and then suggested they attend another hotel to witness almost the entire police force illegally drinking after hours, behind closed doors.

The evening after the Minister for Police’s visit, I received a visit from the two liquor “D’s” who by then, strangely enough, knew my name. “When you ready thanks “Dickie,” they chortled.

I permitted them to cool their heels for some 15 minutes whilst I attended to imaginary restaurant duties. Anyhow they were most courteous and extremely apologetic, having had no idea that they had created the impression of wanting a free drink.

I never saw them again and the other pub burnt down soon after. Yay!

Motto of the story: “Never give a cop a freebie!”

Do not call me anti police it is just not true.
But the big yellow arch has been doing this from day one, fresh food not left overs.
Surely most know a police uniform is called the discount suit?
In a doco about police in Redfern in Sydney some years ago a young female constable made fun of getting her food free, from a very small shop.
Police use the uniform even of duty, to settle traffic disputes their wife had during the day.
But a good cop is worth more the the community could ever pay them.
years ago I and others had to stand and watch as police removed undamaged goods from every truck that rolled or smashed.
Sometime has passed many of those have been removed from the force many went themselves, a few will be at big macs for a free breakfast this morning.

I agree with Ludwig and StG

To ask for something for free or at a discount for what one could reasonably be expected to pay, is the thin edge of corruption (the position of the cop).

To offer something as a gratuity is not (the position of the Donut Shop).

To suggest “Give them the doughnuts...They get chucked out at the end of the day anyway.”

Is simply an attempt to find mitigating excuses for corruption.

Like Ludwig points out, today a free donut, tomorrow “payola”

Mhaze… I am chuckling anyway

David f – in your life does your wife represent “the donut police”?

Col Rouge wrote:

David f – in your life does your wife represent “the donut police”?

Dear Col,

No. If a policeman told me not to eat donuts I would regard it as an abuse of police authority.

To my wife I am bound by the silken cords of love to which I respond more readily than to the ukase of a representative of any political entity.

My wife represents compassion, wisdom, common sense, grace, humour, beauty, warmth and a refuge from the batterings of outrageous fortune. Her being, words and presence are far dearer than the maunderings and blatherings I find on OLO.

Right now she is doing the laundry

Thanks Dickie for sharing your experiences.

I worked in a restaurant in the early 80s. I witnessed the cops come in hundreds of times for free meals. The boss complained vigorously about the ‘parasites’, to his staff after hours. He clearly hated dishing out freebies but felt that he had to. I’d have to agree that he was probably wiser to do so than to stand up to them.

But then, he was inclined to bend a few rules here and there! I could see a strong connection between his ‘appeasement’ of the cops and his infringements, which were generally of the minor sort that could either be overlooked by authorities or be pounced on, depending entirely on their discretion.

So, even though he was the scrooge of the century, he knew perfectly well that handing out free meals and drinks was a whole lot less expensive than having them take a strict line of enforcement with him and keep him in strict accordance with the law, and impose a few penalties and tarnish his reputation as well.

He considered the moral of the story to be just the opposite of yours Dickie.

.
How inappropriate mhaze!

But funny. Mm mmmmm mhaaa hahahaaaa haaa…. huh…….. oow |:C(

Those restaurant stories are a bit scary dickie and ludwig.

Reminds me of the Abraham Lincoln quote - "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

It would be a better world if some of these story's did not happen
But they do Dickie's mine and others take place still.
Those rolled over trucks often saw trucks hired to help in the theft of much of the load.
Standing along side one of our country's truly rich men, the owner of such a truck was informative.
Police lined up to be introduced to him [while filling every car and truck with his freight.
This down to earth bloke came to me after and spoke these words #get some for your blokes before those Fleas take it all# end quote.
he spent the next hour with a crew of workers telling story's about other stolen loads, some from around dead truck drivers.
It however remains true, a good cop is worth many times what we pay them.

Pelican,
Great quote.
It's now my 2nd favourite quote. I'm gonna pinch er borrow it from time to time. I hope you don't mind.

In colonial PNG I remember an actual event of a judge when faced with a native who pleaded “not guilty” to drinking alcohol (not drunk that was white man’s business) a crime at that time! 6wks-3mnths in pokey) and fearing the tedium of trial in which the outcome was, in his mind,ievitablely guilty told the police to “take him down and change his plea” which they did apparently with a few backhanders!
The issues there of multiple abuses of power, oppressive paternalism etc were staggering.

Add to that having been reasonably senior management from time to time I’ve seen the shenanigans of abuse of power at the corporate level.
When the SA bank crashed ($5 Billion then the biggest in Aust.)abuses like Hand made chockies for meetings at $30 each. An imported marble desk with bar fridge(allegedly worth 10’s of thousands…vanished).

Qld parliamentary cutlery, antiques worth $100’s vanished) $200k worth of table settings were returned from an ex MP’s country NSW home.

It is too easy to lose perspective and touch with that which is really important when one is able to ‘get away with it’. The justification are many and seem to focus on “deserving the perks”. Excuses like;
“I do an important job and I’m underpaid/under appreciated for it“
“I work harder than others” “others do it”
And the biggy “it doesn’t matter”. Each a self deluding lie.

It is never once and rarely stays at that level.
Lamentably I too was guilty of the occasional expense account fraud.
The occasional $30 hamburger, the bottle of wine with a client’s name while away. Ice creams for the children on the petrol account. Stationery etc.

Examinator
I am glad you like the quote. Feel free to use the quote whenever and wherever - it is not mine to give away. :)

Perhaps all of us have done things in our youth that we later regret. When I was a struggling student of the 70s/80s I worked for a business that grossly underpaid us in a time of high unemployment. We got paid cash in hand, no penalty rates and for well less than award wages. We did make enough to live on (just) but this was by working Saturdays and Sundays from about 9am until midnight in the summer (the shop was at the beach).

My friend and I used to work out how much we were owed and take the exact amount calculated as owed in the worth of goods from the business.

Typical youthful impulsiveness and sense of righteousness. We thought we were taking the law into our own hands and exacting our own justice if you like. Neither of us would ever 'steal' as such. Sometimes it is easy to make excuses for bad behaviour but in essence it was stealing.

Dear Pelican,

Your employer stole from you by paying sub-standard wages. You stole from your employer by taking his goods.

Possibly, your employer justified his substandard wages by assuming you would steal from him and that you would still steal even if you got your full entitlement.

You don't sound as though you would have stolen if you had been fairly paid.

Perhaps this calls for another string.

Good idea Davidf. I have started a new discussion "Is stealing ever justified? It may take a while to be approved.

To briefly respond - No I have never stolen in any other situation and abhor theft of property. And would never have thought of stealing had the employer paid reasonable wages.

The point was that we did not view it as stealing because to us, it was about correcting an injustice. But at the end of the day it was stealing - taking the law into your own hands and exacting your own justice. The employer was certainly stealing but so did we. One bad deed does not always justify another.

I was quite a politially motivated youth and this was my view of taking an active part in the solution of being underpaid. I should add that I was only 18 at the time with still a lot to learn.

Examinator

I get your drift with the hand-made chockies and marble desk however, see if you can beat the following:

A publicly listed company, in which I was employed, were contracted to a large corporation to remove gracious old historical homesites to be re-situated in another area to do with tourism.

The manager of the corporation, stole a lovely old home, placed it on jinkers and utilised the subbies to transport it hundreds of miles to his farm at the company's expense.

And to add to the liquor D's story. I had also dobbed these D's into the Minister's aide who asked if I would put my concerns in writing to which I gleefully agreed since these Ds "had prevented me from working efficiently for months."

I must confess though to a slight misdemeanour. During those years in the hospitality game I was a stickler for etiquette. Serve only to the right, linen napkin around the wine bottle, twist the bottle to avoid spilling a drop and allowing a host to sniff and savour the wine for approval prior to filling the glasses of other guests.

The Penfolds St Henri to which I referred was corked - the whole 12 bottles had leaked and smelled atrocious. Nevertheless, the chef and I enoyed a bottle after closing time without any ill effects so I was adding it to the punch I used to prepare for large balls or conventions.

The volume of snobbery amongst would-be wine buffs during those years was staggering and the Minister's aide, whilst extremely charming, remarked condescendingly that he couldn't believe a regional town (I think he meant the "Bronx") would be able to offer a fine wine like St Henri.

So with great flair and much aplomb, I invited him to test the wine. When he sniffed and tasted the foul smelling dregs he exclaimed with obvious delight: "What a magnificent drop!"