Sanity has prevailed and a photograph of two toddlers pulled from an exhibition at The Subiaco Library due to fears of comparisons to Bill Henson's controversial nude picture of a teen will be reinstated.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/arts/library-exhibition-gets-knickers-in-twist/2009/01/28/1232818513023.html

But I wonder how this man who was arrested for his amateur photography in Darling Harbour feels.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/paddling-toddler-photos-porn/2008/12/01/1227979877673.html

Would he be in this position if he was

a) An Artist
b) Female
c) Not Homeless

And what order of importance do these three factors have in relation to candid amateur photography of children in the eyes of the law?

If I were to allow my children to be in public in a partial/full state of undress, I would expect people would be able to see them, and perhaps photograph them. For the life of me I cannot see how my children could be hurt by this. Even if I imagine what the photos may be used for by a sick mind, I don't see how that could affect my children.

How can parents be happy for the world to see their children in natures glory, but then think it's somehow perverse if someone wants to capture it on film? Will I be locked up if someone ever finds any pictures I may have of my kids in the bath making soap-sud beards?

It takes a sick mind to look at young boys and girls as sexual objects. It takes a sicker mind to photograph young boys and girls in provocative positions and call it art. Of course no art lovers have sick minds! If you are a 'respected' artist you are a protected species. This is not unlike some judges and catholic priests in the past.

You do however make a valid point. Many woman are happy to walk around the beach topless or with next to nothing on and then complain that someone is looking at them. They are the first to scream when beach inspectors tell them to cover up and the first to scream if someone photographs them. Welcome to the world of double standards.

Wow, you’ve found a couple of doozies Houellebecq.

Both examples are beyond outrageous.

Even the slightest thought of the photo of two children being in any way inappropriate to hang in an exhibition or display anywhere in public is just sick.

Charging the homeless man with possessing child pornography entirely in relation to photos of children taken in a public place is just as sick.

Who in a million years would have thought that anyone could have deemed the first photo to be in any way controversial?

Who in a million years would have thought that the police would ever charge anyone with the possession of pornography, or be able to do so, for the possession of completely non-pornographic images of children?

Whackos, the lot of em!

Yes it is quite ridiculous and an ill-thought out knee jerk reaction. In no way can these photos be compared to the Henson exhibition.

These children are not sexually posed and most parents would have innocent photos like these in their photo albums.

I agree Houellebecq. It's called a 'moral panic'.

Good thread topic Houellebecq, excellent web references.

I have used a photo image of my daughters, when they were aged around 5 and 2, as a screen saver on one of my PCs for years. I do so because it is a fine picture which captures the essence of kids enjoying a summer vacation by the sea.

I am with the "I will assume most people are ethical, honest and normal, until proved otherwise" Brigade

rather than the

"If you are male and over the age of 15, You are a Pedophile, unless you can prove otherwise and we also have doubts about most of the women too" bunch of twisted tossers.

Children have figured significantly in Art since cave painting was “nouveau” and since most of us love our kids we tend to take pictures of them and seek to look at them from time to time.

There has developed a hypersensitivity to child images, possibly due to the perverse interests of a tiny, tiny minority.

Looking at pictures of children does not automatically imply anyone has an unnatural interest in them.

I wholly agree with Ludwig’s apt summation “Both examples are beyond outrageous. Even the slightest thought of the photo of two children being in any way inappropriate to hang in an exhibition or display anywhere in public is just sick.”

Public standards are not and should never be based on the extreme responses of a tiny minority but on the values of the vast majority and our laws are there to reflect those public standards.

To be honest the ones who need locking up are the hypersensitive (and often self appointed) members of the “Committee for Public Safety” (and they have a history of all being as mad as cut snakes ever since Robespierre got the chop).

Good grief!

I hope the thought police never see my old photo of my son when he was around 2, standing in my big boots.. with a bike helmet on...and nothing in between. His little pecker clearly visible!

I'm thinking this homeless bloke might have enjoyed the sense of company he gained through some images of happy children.

This all does seem like a storm in a teacup.
However, as a parent, I have to be honest
and admit that I would feel a slight unease
of a total stranger taking photos of my young children
in a public place.

I believe that the parents did tell police the man
was acting rather strangely.

Perhaps if he had asked for their permission to photograph,
things might have ended differently.

I guess there's a lesson to be learned from this experience.
Ask first, photograph later?

Foxy, you wrote;

“I have to be honest and admit that I would feel a slight unease of a total stranger taking photos of my young children in a public place”

I share your concern. But that’s where it gets a bit tricky. If the media can get right up in your face and take photos, then why can’t people take photos if they are standing back and not annoying you?

I can think of a bunch of more annoying things that people do all the time in public places. Just because it makes us feel a bit uneasy shouldn’t mean that it should be unlawful.

Whatever the case, there can be no excuse for the police branding such photos as pornographic and then charging someone on that basis.

That is the most disgusting perversion of the law and a rank abuse of police powers to interpret the law in that manner. If we are to believe the media article brought to our attention by Houellebecq at face value, then I would suggest that serious action needs to be taken against the police involved.

Dear Ludwig,

I agree, the involvement of the law in this case
is excessive.

However, media, or private individuals, I would
not want anyone taking photos of my young children
for whatever reason, without my permission.

But, that's just me. And I certainly would not bring
the law into it if they did.

Hmm,
6 months back we went to Europe, and wherever we went for a swim, whether in a public pool or in lakes, people did wear clothing or they didn't, male and female alike. There was no secret police around
and not needed, as this is obviously accepted by those societies (French, German, Netherlands). In art galleries naked bodies are shown in all age groups. Sometimes we saw children playing naked in the streets up to an age of estimated six, without people making any fuss of it.
Our problem is, that we are mindwise very much like Americans, with an intellectual level anywhere stuck in the medi evil times.
We were born naked, and sexuality is the onliest reason for all of us being here. We don't mind watching third class movies every night, were violence is normal and people are shot and murdered every five minutes. And when asked by the Americans, we will happily join them for another war.
There is nothing wrong at all with naked pictures of children, it all lies in the eye of the beholder.
Cheers m2catter

Interesting comments m2catter. Isn’t it just mindbogglingly absurd as to how we can accept violence, and indeed really graphic violence, as everyday material on our televisions, both fictional in movies and real on the news….and yet balk at nudity.

This treatment of nudity as perverted or offensive in public, or indeed in any situation where you might be able to be seen by someone else, is cutting really close to a mass psychosis!!

Could you please elaborate on your observations of public nudity in Europe. In what situations is it acceptable? How common is it? Thanks

We put clothes on ourselves because of religion! ( in this day and age) The ice-age was the main bearing to this factor,( and evolution ) so the trend began and is still, with all combined, so the blame is shared.
If the human body is still animazement too you, GET A LIFE or be at peace with yourself.

If the whole world was naked, there would be No curiosity!

Again! Have a think.

If I have missed anything out, this means I need to go to bed.

All the best.

EVO

Dear Ludwig,
you asked me to more specify my opinion about the nudeness manners of those European countries earlier mentioned or my observation towards this subject.
As I grew up in Europe, this is difficult for me to do as those forms of behavior or their expression of nudity appear to me as quite ”normal”. As I stated earlier, over there nude people are eg. lying in between other people along a river and girls bathing topless is as normal as having fast food shops at every corner in Australia.
I try to explain it the other way around, as this issue in my chosen country appears not to be “normal” to me. As it was hot on Australia Day we went to Cottesloe Beach in Perth, quite a nice beach by the way. Walking along there we spotted a young lady, possibly in her mid to late twenties, expressing her secrets to the public in a visible and disgusting way. Her pants were slit in the middle to allow her female private parts to exit there. Please allow me not to go into further detail.
This is not normal. I haven’t seen anything similar in all my life in Europe. May be as they handle nudity as not offensive no one is annoyed if he or she takes a sunbath without clothes. If nudity is handled normal we won’t need to express ourselves in the way this poor thing did.
The more we ban nudity out of our normal lives, out of art galleries, or pools, or beaches we create a mystery about it, we actually deny it in a certain way.
There is no question that there will always be some sickos around, in whatever country we live, but to my understanding this Aussie denying of nudity will create even a bigger threat for more sickos to be produced by this society. It all starts at home, with our upbringing and with certain values. Nudity in itself is a value, which should be respected and not haunted.
Yours m2catte

When a child is born it is common for the father to be present throughout the birth and, in many cases fathers often take photos of the birth, some even capture the event on video.

So are we as fathers committing a crime?