'most folk have higher expectations of 'someone' or something, maybe even themselves, being in greater control of their environment than before.

Higher expectations, not supported with actual processes to satisfy them.'

That's pretty good col.

Perhaps the problem people have these days is they think they have so much more information. Information was supposed to be empowering but it has been found wanting.

We're flooded with so much information that there is no way to process it in a useful way, and even if we could the issue of bias, misinformation, propaganda is ever present.

Dear Antonios,

No, No, No. I was not referring to you at all
concerning insults. No apology is necessary.

I was merely talking in generalities to examinator,
who seemed put out. I was not referring to any person.
It was my attempt at humour.

Agronomist,
I too was originally concerned about the ‘noble savage’ link but on closer consideration I decided it was all in the definition of terms and objectivity.
I grew up amongst these ‘primitive’ (a relative term) people (PNG in the late 1950/60…Keep in mind that Clans were being still ‘discovered’. (The cannibal/head hunting Kuku kukus was one such clan/nation. They simply walked out of the bush to investigate these colourless people, terrifying the local natives but completely stunning anthropologists.)
In fact the PNG societies/cultures (plural) I experienced were quite sophisticated in that they had incorporated hard scientific facts into an indivisible culture. (At one stage my parents feared I was going ‘native’, one of the reasons I was sent to boarding school)
A complex set of Taboos
• Allow for breeding times of food animals/birds in specific areas at appropriate times.
• And a series of events that almost preclude in breeding etc.
Notwithstanding their lives are/were short disease ridden and from OUR perspective brutish. (No I don’t lust after their pre-white life)

I have read anthropological studies that argue that much of the individuals ‘acceptance’ their place in their world order (contentment?) is based on ignorance of alternatives and cultural parameters. It all comes down to objectivity.

Objectively it is highly problematic to claim that the PNG (nation/clans) are better off now than before white intrusion (the missionaries and colonialists have a lot to answer for) considering their systematic destruction of their cultural structures and all that entails.

Recent studies show the increasing down sides of 21st century life, Rascols (gang) crime, family violence, stress, diabetes unsustainable birth rates, alienation and negative atheism et al. Even health/ life expectancy figures are patchy particularly in tribal areas. Many tribal areas have the added problem of loss of sustainability because of corruption and unfair cross cultural/commercial exploitism.
BTW it is 21st century bias that sees only two options Status Quo and pre-industrial feudalism.
It is the search for alternatives that motivates/d me and this topic not to convince anyone of anything.

I think just accept each ourselves for what we are would be the most realistic foundation for bettering ourselves. … we do have greed, we do go to war, etc, no science, philosophy, politics, social movement or religion has ever *cured* us of those *social sins*.

I think the constant effort to not be ourselves is badly wasting our energy. All that energy could be better spent with harm minimisation (such as the needle exchange and safe sex programs that have made Australia one of the HIV prevention leaders world wide)

This may also be applied to warfare, just get it to the least amount of casualties/damage we can, efficient etc. Let people get it over and let there actually be a winner too, this way it is ended. The constant halting of wars only prolongs them as we know, they won’t stop.

I think the least amount of intrusion into peoples social structures, (save for cops when needed and the basic laws don’t kill steal etc) But also while I mentioned not taking politics and religion to seriously I don’t mean to cut them either.. They are so important to peoples inner worlds too, but like all crazy kinks.. How about we keep them more in the bedroom and out of each others faces.

I’d be looking at ways to live that basically stop us morally and socially intruding on or controlling others to much,and one way is to keep our beliefs to ourselves more.

Also I see the big question as… which is do we globalize and become one big world wide community or do we retain the individual countries.

I don’t think we can have both.

Houellebecq “Perhaps the problem people have these days is they think they have so much more information. Information was supposed to be empowering but it has been found wanting.”

That might be one of the issues, through devices like TV and radio, supported by satellite and cable communications and to a lesser extent the internet, we are exposed to more data about more things around the world than our grandparents could have comprehended.

I think it is said (and forgive me if this is wavers from the absolute accurate), a 10 year old today has absorbed more raw data than our grand parents got to view in their entire life time.

TV brought the Vietnam war, in colour, into the family lounge. WWI was presented by black and white silent movies and newspaper illustrations, mostly sanitized.

I have used the term data distinct from information. ‘Data’ is what we receive/ are exposed to. “Information” is that minority part which we can actually benefit from or respond to, having first filtered from all the data.

Hence your comment really addresses the volumes of ‘data’ we are bombarded with.

And I agree, no wonder it is non-empowering, there is just too much which does not affect us or for which we have no direct responsibility or response.

Deciding on what is important to me as an individual is the first step, maintaining my focus in deciding to deliberately ignore the majority of diversions presented in the “data” is what I work at to overcome and stay in a state of what I think might be something like sanity.

Merediths comment “I think the constant effort to not be ourselves is badly wasting our energy.”

Absolutely right. That is what I feel every time I hear the Victorian Equal Opportunity Commissioner tell me, through TV interview, that male only clubs (the Melbourne etc) are evil and we (she and me), as a society, need to ban them.

That conflicts with my personal values which support “ live and let live” yet my taxes are expropriated to pay for that moron preaching the opposite.

Interesting topic, examinator.

Not long ago, I spent a few days in a village. The village was divided into four groups, each of about 800 people.
I spoke to one young man, who said that he knew about 90% of the people from his group. He had about 40 family members in this group and the rest he had known growing up. The village was equipped with a primary school and then they went to a middle school that wasn't far away.

Although the environment was far from idyllic, the feeling of a tightly knit community was certainly present. I asked the man whether he would come back to live here (he was one of the few travelling away) and his answer was 'of course.'

So yes, as societies become more prosperous I believe they do become more atomised. That being said, I wouldn't trade places to live there, so I guess it's a price we pay willingly.

Part of the issue is cultural - the nuclear family trend which goes back half a century is undoubtedly a chief culprit. I do believe that cultural models which have an extended family raising a child are more effective. I tend to think that we evolved in village scenarios where aunts, siblings, grandparents and uncles were available to assist parents. It's no wonder we have stress about child-raising when we're attempting to have just two people, sometimes one, doing it alone.

I think this is the first contributor to this atomisation. The second is prosperity, and the drive to focus on the accumulation of wealth.
This is a tougher issue to consider - our lives become more comfortable, indeed, aside from raw happiness and togetherness, all the yardsticks by which we can measure the quality of life spring forth from this drive to succeed, not only on an individual level but on a societal level.
As always, it comes back to seeking the right balance.
Of course career and the drive to succeed is important, but it must be seen as the means to an end and not the end itself.