FYI:

http://www.hindu.com/2008/10/17/stories/2008101757661200.htm

Not sure if this the same incident. If so, it seems the Maoists are significant players as mentioned above.

Poly,

Waterboy and I would be interested in your opinion on the suicide thread. Recall I posited that Jesus committed death by Roman cop and that Hosea 6:6 suggest that Yahweh wants mercy and love not sacrifice. Suicide and descration of the body are significant sins to a Jew.

Peace.

Dear Oly... we did the suicide idea to death on a previous thread did we not? Jesus did not 'commit suicide' by cop/roman/jew or anyone.
He gave his life as part of the plan of redemption. The author of this plan was the Almighty.

Robert:

"There will be some isolated incidents of christian wrongdoing along with christians not being like everybody else"

No Robert..I don't disagree with you at all.. in fact I emphatically DO agree. This is most important. Let's look at the incident of the Christmas celebration.

1/ Christians decide to celebrate Christmas.
2/ Hindus attack them.
3/ SOME.. (we don't know how many or what motivated them..or what understanding they had about their faith) from the Christian fold responded by attacking a bus of the Hindu's attacking them.
4/ Subsequently the Hindu's burned 19 churches and escalated the attacks they had already begun.

Now.. if I'm looking for a bad guy here..I'd have to choose the Hindu's. There's no if's but's or maybe's...they instigated violence..those from the Christian group who defended themselves did nothing that we would not do for our own country. Personally, I don't condone such a response in the name of Christ, but I surely DO condone police action against those Hindu's.

Unfortunately Rob...when the police to whom you look for protection stand idly by while you are vulgarized and nuns are stripped and raped...and you are forced (attempted) to have sex with her (as priest) then... one wonders if the time has not come for citizens to mobilize with 'reasonable restraint' against those attacking them?

http://orissaburning.blogspot.com/2008/08/they-ordered-me-to-have-sex-with-nun-fr.html

"Later both of us, half-naked, were taken to the street, and they ordered me to have sex with the nun in public, saying nuns and priests do it. As I refused, they went on beating me and dragged us to the nearby government office. Sadly, a dozen policemen were watching all this," he said.

This situation is being described as a "clash of faiths" but when the facts are examined, that description makes as much sense as calling a gang rape a 'clash of the sexes'.

Errrr.... what, Boaz?

>>PERICLES..nope..I don't need to goto the Bagavad Gita or wherever to try to find 'key verses'... <<

Leaving that misdirected comment aside for the moment, I wonder whether you have a view on the impact of Christian proselytizing on the situation...

"Proselytizing as Christians and Muslims do is, by its nature, un-Hindu, which makes a looming battle for Indians' souls look "very asymmetrical," says Nandy. For Hindu nationalists, the fear of Hindu conversions to Christianity "is a kind of humiliation that is being rubbed in," he says. Ironically, of course, Hinduism's acceptance of other religions is used by extremists as an excuse for hostility towards other religions."

It is one thing to accost strangers on the steps of Flinders Street Station or wherever, and bash their ears about turning to Jesus. It is entirely another to prey on the poor and weak of another nation, inciting them to turn against their kith and kin for a "higher purpose".

Do you not see how this could aggravate people to violence?

You are still being highly selective in your choice of "evidence", by the way.

You omitted to mention that the Maoists' proclaimed motive for murder was that "he was forcing tribals and Dalit Christians in Kandhamal to convert to Hinduism."

Now, it sounds strange to me too, that a Maoist would be concerned with the defence of Christians against Hindu proselytizing, but there you are. When religion is around, it can be used as an excuse for almost anything, it would appear.

It is always sad when people kill each other.

To me, it is doubly sad when they do so over a subject as trivial as which religion is "better".

So one way to stop being a victim of this kind of threat is to keep one's religion a private matter.

Particularly when you are in a distinct minority.

"Christians account for 2.3 percent of India's billion-plus Hindu majority population." [The Hindu]

Given that there are still folk alive today who remember 1947, being non-Hindu is a challenging lifestyle choice in Orissa, I would suggest.

Hello Poly,

I don't think we achieved finality. Suicide is bringing about one's own death with intent and foreknowledge. The Last Supper suggests that Jesus knew what was coming and to some extent orchestrated events. That form of death would not be called for, according to the OT, and descrating the body is a Jewish sin. Acts of mercy and love do not require physical sacrifice.

Maybe Jesus would need to be on "the coach" for a few sessions, for a full diagnosis, but I would suspect either of, or, both elements of dyadic suicide (penance directed towards against/or proxy for "ambivalently loved love one" [humanity]) or anomic suicide (self destruction as a result of being out-of-phase with a key reference group).

[Psych.Cites: Schneidman, Seiden, Durheim)

I am locked out of the other thread for while. Perhaps, you can return there.

The means to redemption applied by Jesus is inconsistent with the OT and Jewish law, methinks, my friend.

Peace.

All,

Sorry to intervene in this thread. Just trying to catch our colleague Poly's sustained attention. Trust you understand.

Oly.. ur a rascal thats what you are :) Here I am trying to re-invent Pericles and company and you are distracting me ^_-

Pericles said:

<<So one way to stop being a victim of this kind of threat is to keep one's religion a private matter.
Particularly when you are in a distinct minority.>>

and by and large I cannot agree more. I'm increasingly in favor of "The Church" being 'house' related.. small groups linked up by networks of fellowship and commonality.

You mention proselytising being a factor.. but keep in mind, the Tribal people are not Hindu, they are animists.
So..it's not that the Christians are stealing sheep from the Hindu's.

But in any case.. proclaiming one's faith is part and parcel of it.
We can learn a lot from Pauls experiences. i.e..there will be times when people give us a hard time, and sometimes they will listen, and believe or decline.

What are the Hindu's really worried about? Why is the issue of tribal people gaining a liberating dignifying faith such a problem for them?

Look up the word 'dalit' for some clues and where they fit in Hindu social class structure.

It's worth noting here Pericles and others..that the Hindu violence is not being perpetrated by a large number of people.... no...but by small groups.. minorities among the Hindus.. you know that 'radical minority' which I often speak about as so potentially dangerous and which drives the agenda of things?

Only a strong legal system and indeed a non partisan government/police force will be able to deal with that kind of thing.

Unfortunately, as we all know..once things become politicized, the 'law' becomes a very rubbery thing indeed as Cronulla taught us.

Where on earth do you get 'inciting them to TURN on kith and kin?
How do they 'turn' on them? They just want to be left alone and grow in their faith and lives.
That little 'turn on them' was quite an inflammatory assesment of the situation. I suggest is was the radical Hindu's who turned on others exercising freedom of choice in religion.

Typo:

Couch, that is. Sorry Dr Freud.

Poly,

Okay, for now, but I will raise the issue again. I feel it need to be addressed.