While Banks are being made more liquid using taxpayer dollars, I wonder whether the Moguls are progressiving becoming liquid too, from equities, to hedge their position; while, compulsory superannuation fund holders are left holding the bag to prop-up industry, as others progressively shift their holdings to safer portfolios? Should more us manage our own funds and endeavour to protect our wealth, personally?

- Am I a cynic or a realist?

I think you are right Oliver.There is a simple solution to the super problem.Why not let every investor nominate half a $ million of their assets to be super ,thus they get the tax advantage?It won't happen because Govt is beholden to big business.Super does not have to be complicated.Our money gets swallowed up by charges and it's compulsory nature makes the funds managers very lazy ad greedy.We would be better off putting that money into our mortages and having less debt.While it might seem that our employer is putting in the super,the reality is that we are taking a pay cut to pay for that super.It has all been factored in.

This Govt bailout in the US and Europe will also again burn the tax payer since the creeps who sprung the trap,will take their money[ie the tax payers money]and the system will again collapse.

Our super scheme needs a total overhaul.

If we are Oliver the hook in our mouths is real.
So too are the chances of us ending up gutted and cleaned out in the bottom of the boat.
I have zero doubt we are victims of others actions.
Some of us are victims of our own.
Controlling our own super may not be an answer, the idea those who do it for us are careless is laughable.
Threads have pointed to this day over the last 18 months, yet attacked little interest.
We saw massive loss in world shares in just the last 24 hours.
We would all do well to understand how bad this really is.
I do not a long way from being out of the workforce I put 20% of my wages into super , and the 9% my boss puts in.
As houses stand unsold around me at 40% discount on their last sale price my future could be bleak.
Yet it will get worse.
Tell me if I took the loss at least 30%over the last 18 months.
Sold my super shares totally withdrew it now.
How would I invest it
?
And if we all did? the landslide of falling stocks would shake the world.

im looking at a bank advert
its heading reads 'BECAUSE cash-flow is king'
we all know when the king is in checkmate the game is over [but some 'kings' are 'too 'big to fail'[too big to check]so clearly we should not be further consolidating our big bankers into being SOO cashed up

bankers; who are cashed up with govt insured equity [that has increased their cash reserves enough to selectivly take over the smaller banks and REAL[not securitised paper]assets the cashed up big boys club has issued to steal yet more of the REAL[wealth producing assets[even the too bigger to fail]big bankers with huge bonus are NOT too big to fail[they are to be made small enough to control!]

as to where to put your money[invest your kingly cash with your :LOCAL lender's ,local buisness and avoid those too big to fail big bankers who set up this massive colluded fraud by irresponsable lending on valueless paper rated securities ,

the fat superfunds[we are COMPULSORY forced to top up with the[OUR} kingly cash has made them look to spend OUR SUPER ,and while we dont hold ANY shares bennifits[nor get the discounts , voting rights , intrest or returns shareholders get]

thing is invest YOUR OWN supper in your life style[as THE shareholder you get the bennifit[bonus] not the subsidised stockholder trading away YOUR future ,

Your cash is king [be DETERMINED to be different]many little [easilly controlled 'kings ,managing THEIR own super [and own cash reserves] that you invest with those who you give your cash to ,[that give you the KING [shareholder] the bonus and the discount.

yes david we are being played [big time] law courts are NOT constitutional [share trading is mainly trading paper [on borrowings from the king cash [fiat currency] issued at whim by the banker OWNED fed reserve

[cash is paper,you cant eat it]get shares not promises ,not to make money but to survive [invest LOCALLY] first your home and assets ,food and consumable supplies

cash is NOT king
if it were we would be calling out 'CHEQUE mate'

It is truly both amusing and tragic that so many do not understand this crisis.
Our super? it was developed for the boss to put it in our accounts, never paid by us, but earned by us yes.
One day if we had not hit this rock we could have slashed over seas borrowing because of our super funds.
How truly how? can any one not understand world governments had no choice but to back the banks.
Heard of the not so great depression? right now without that bailout we could have been in a bigger one.
Tell those who have had their funds locked up it was not a good idea.
If banks fail, they may still, no more pay on pay day or social welfare checks, it has to be clear to most no one is safe from this.
The meeting Rudd is going to may save us all, no not a return to big profits, it may stabilize our world credit markets.
It will not reduce the coming 3 year recession, it may be come a depression.
It will not stop our coming tsunami in housing ,yes prices are going to fall fast.
This is bad so very much worse than some think.
Right now trillions of dollars are forever lost, in ten years share prices may be back to the price they are today in some cases but will not match inflation in that time.
Remember industry super is non profit and we took the plus 18% without complaint now squeal because an event most knew was coming has come.

Arjay and others.
Have you considered Industry super funds? Some are amongst the best performers around historically, additionally don’t pay agent fees and they’re owned by the members.
The industry super funds tend to be more prudent and hence are less exposed to the financial shenanigans.
A number of these industry super funds own Members Equity Bank and pay higher interest.
Many of these funds are partitioning the government to be involved in government backed infrastructure. Basic economics tells me that that is better for the country as a whole….Check it out.

Oliver,
The Moguls were Muslim overlord in India.
If you mean the super rich well most of them are into numbered accounts in tax havens etc.
Those who are not so rich but have retirement funds invested in unregulated property trusts etc are moving to ensure the guarantee.
• As for managing your own funds it depends on your skills or belief in Astrology/tealeaves reading I Ching etc. So long as governments allow uncontrolled Capitalism there will always be the ‘gotchers’ for the bulk of us.
I chose the industry super funds better something than nothing. (tip: spread your risks) My rule is 60% conservative, 30% medium risk , 10% high risk high performing. Depending on the fund you can change the risk on the fly if you choose or hear some insider info…and…don’t forget who helped you. ;-)
• Are you cynical….just a tad but then again I follow Socrates’ mantra (if he was alive today) "trust nothing and test everything especially human nature "(the biologic imperative not the group....then again.....)

Ps I don’t work for a fund nor am I in a union. Lamentably they won’t pay me finder’s fees either. :-(

Dear Mogul, whoops sorry,
I mean examinator,

Yes, one of the explanations for "Mogul,"
does mean 1)one of the Mongol conquerors of
India who established an empire that lasted from
1526 to 1857 (but held only nomial power after
1803). However, it also has other meanings,
2) One of their descendants.

3) An important, powerful, or influential person...

It does have other meanings, but I think Oly
was referring to the third explanation
given above.

Oh, and Thanks,
your explanation about the Industry Super Fund
was most helpful, I will check it out.

*Should more us manage our own funds and endeavour to protect our wealth, personally? *

Oliver, that really depends on how much interest that individuals
have in the financial world. Most have none, apart from checking
their super fund statement, which in the past, normally showed a
healthy increase, year after year.

Most super funds actually have quite a spread of investments.
Some in cash deposits, some in bonds, some in Australian shares,
some in overseas shares etc. Spreading the risk is the idea and
that makes perfect sense, as nobody can really predict the future.

The present calamity all kind of makes some kind of sense,when
examinded a bit deeper. China, Japan, oil producers etc, have
all been pouring their huge surpluses back into Western money
markets, so cheap and easy credit has caused a huge asset bubble.

That has now popped, (as was predicted, only it was a question of
when), so its going to take a bit of time to sort out the mess.

First we had the margin lenders forced to liquidate their portfolios,
which drove the markets down. Now we have people withrdrawing money
from hedge funds. For every dollar that they held, they borrowed
another 5 or 6, so there are about 1 trillion$ of hedge funds assets
being dumped onto markets at any price. Net result is mums and dads
are panicking too, which leads to further value reductions in terms
of asset pricing.

Watching Bloomberg right now is quite interesting! Half of all
hedge funds are expected to go bust, so you have people jumping
out of windows etc. Meantime you have a whole pile of value
investors, with huge amounts of cash on hand, waiting on the
sidelines, waiting for signs that the bottom has been reached.

I'm not sure when, but at some point some people will be able to
buy absolute bargains for a song,if they have the cash. That
could well be cashed up super funds, who called the market correctly.

My industry super fund lost 4.5% for the year ending June 2008.
Others lost more, few less.
This year it has been far worse, some lost on paper 4 times that.
However it is just on paper until we want to cash out.
Yabby is quite right if I had funds I would be looking at long term share investments now.
Yes they may, probably will, fall further but who can pick the bottom?
You would need to be extremely careful, only the most solid would be worth buying.
I do not have the money or the time we do not live forever and banking on ten years may be a long shot.
A light may exist at the end of our tunnel.
The Asian meeting called for a new international set of rules , in my view it must come.
The soon to be held meeting in America must vote that way too.
Do not look for an easy way out of this it does not exist we will bottom out one day but the climb back is no short trip.
I would advise homes are not a good investment unless you only want to live in it.

Yabby and Belly,

Intersting posts, both.

At times, in the GD, the Banks did hold the sustantial of importers awaiting better exchange rates, while advance policy was tight.

If the world recession does go deeper, being an importer-reexporter, Singapore, I guest, is glad of its reserves. Overwise, it would be very exposed. And it assets everywhere held by Tamarsek Holdings. If starts liquidity we could feel some it, likewise, Optus in Australia, for example.

Protectionism is the big threat, if the markets don't turn in the few months: Protecting one's own domestic situation with trade barriers, begs others to not buy one's own exports. Hope the powers, whom run countries know that one, from the GD

examinator,

Enjoyed your post. A good read.

p.s. It is interesting that Switzerland was left out of WWII.

Oliver, protectionism is what we need. Not just tariffs applied willy - nilly but a totally different system. Warren Buffett has proposed for the US what we also need here. Exporters get a Foreign Export Certificate for each $ value of export they earn. The certificate can then be sold at a market rate to an importer. Imports can only be made to the value of certificates provided.
We would then be able to restart industry. Import costs would rise but exports would be effectively subsidised by the value of the certificate, giving industry a good bunk up.
Our balance of payments would then be all squared up. The Australian dollar would stand tall and proud and not be at the mercy of traders.
If this system were in use now, we would be largely immune from the world financial mess. Don't worry, they would still buy our resources.

as belly said govt had no choice
because banks stopped lending to banks
same as the last depression

that very govt interferance with the free market sets us up for the next one

for one buisness and bankers KNOW tax payers will HAVE to bail them out [this bailout has been diverted into paying the bonus big buisness earn when they bring in NEW govt funds ,a performance bonus, they KNOW will be forthcomming

the last bail out set up this bubble [recall 2002] that was increased by fractional reserve into two quadrillion of 'equities'DEBT; based on 200 billion of mortgauge securities set up to fail this time

it never ends [because they are TOO big to fail[well here is the clue divide them up ,its time these monopolies got decentralised ,but we give our govt cash top up ans away they go getting bigger[much too bigger to fail, its time they were small enough to jail]

it used to be death duties divided these monopolies ,but we shifted the burdons from the dead to the living [from the wealthy to the poor [top down trickle affect is lie]big enough to die should be the new rule

anyone over a trillion gets broke into smaller bits

[we have these subsidised big buisness gamblers of the peoples resources and securities having larger accounts than countries, big enough to change media govt law health [anything that threatens their cash subsidised feast

Yes, we are being played. By some, at least:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1081624/Goldman-Sachs-ready-hand-7BILLION-salary-bonus-package--6bn-bail-out.html