Most will have seen the story an Island with Rabbits eating or destroying every thing.
And the plan?
Train dogs to kill the rabbits but not the penguins.
Seems so strange to me, so typical of public service.
No problem with killing them but would you trust every dog?
What is so wrong with using the newest chemical killer first to reduce numbers then or maybe first let shooters in?
All those carcases would find a ready market in butcher shops or even a home in export markets why take the risk of dogs?

I thought we could talk about this subject not fight over it.
Most of us would agree the rabbits have to go.
They are destroying the Island and harming the wildlife.
DOGS? I have no problem with hunting dogs, even if others do but mostly we can not step foot on these Islands.
Some are totally out of bounds.
Surely a better way exists?
I know we once trapped rabbits, never got rid of them all but kept numbers much lower.
Shooting will not do it alone but is the place going to be better of for these dogs?

Belly,
I did see that item on TV and i think it was said near the end that the dogs would be used after an extensive poisioning programme. I think this would be to get those that are left. I looks pretty rugged country and is cold as all hell.

Obviously the rabbits cannot be allowed to be there. Next to Norfolk island is a small island named Phillip island which was just a huge basalt rock after being totally denuded of growth and top soil. Rabbits were responsibile after they were introduced during the convict settlrment days. Best example ever of the damage rabbits can do.

Hope their plan works.

The dogs are NOT being trained to kill rabbits.

Over the years there's been many attempts to control the rabbits, including Myxomatosis, which are destroying habitat/wildlife. There will be an aerial baiting programme on the island in 2010, and the dogs will commence their work after that. The dog's role is to simply flush out the remaining rabbits on the island's steep, hilly terrain. The dogs will do no killing or attacking at all.

jw you are having us on.
The training includes some to see they do not kill wild life.
Flush out?
What do you mean by that?
To a better spot to shoot them?
Some would not like it but I in my youth trapped rabbits, even now wild rabbits are marketed in country freezer works and exported.
These could be too.
A kitten, baby rabbit from the wild is sold in butcher shops for $12
Rabbit cuts are $`15 to $17 a kg.
Harvesting if allowed could pay for its self and remove large numbers first.
Rabbit fur is a very salable product used in hat making.
Why waste it?
No matter how rough the country rabbits could be removed by other than dogs.

Belly,
I also hate to see things wasted that could be put to good use. Sure rabbit carcases are worth a bit in retail shops but in the situation of Macquarie Island I have serious doubts about the economics of harvesting the rabbits for sale. Firstly, as vehicular access is very limited much of the work would have to be done on foot which limits what can be done in a day. Then there is the need for storage and then transport to markets. Animal lovers would be up in arms about shooting or trapping.

The dogs I saw on TV were hardly the dogs I would choose for catching rabbits. The main training for them would be to ignore the chooks and penguins. After the baiting, the purpose of the dogs is for flushing into the burrows and then gas the burrows. This would be the best way in difficult terrain. Remember the object is to get rid of the rabbits and this can be acheived on foot.

I like your idea to get economic benefit from the rabbits, but it may not be feasable in this instance.

Betty, would you please provide a link that proves your claim that these dogs are being trained to KILL.

I know you can't do that.

It's because they are NOT being trained to kill. Guess what type of dogs they're using? Labradors and spaniels..........hey Betty, I hope you don't own any KILLER spaniels and KILLER labradors.

When you make outrageous and false claims such as this, it only spreads misinformation.

The rabbit programme is a complex and lengthy $25,000,000 project. The environment and unique natural wildlife there MUST be protected. The dogs only arrive near the end of the main programme, and will remain there doing their work for about 5 years.

Here's a link to the "truth"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/22/2224092.htm

jw you are not worth the effort talking too.
if calling me Betty is not flaming nothing is.
have no doubt it does not make you look smart
BELLY

Belly

You may think jw "not worth the effort talking too".

But is he right when he challenges your allegation that dogs are being trained to kill rabbits but not penguins?

You can talk to the rest of us.

Belly, my apologies. I thought your screen name was Betty, my eyes are not what they used to be. A simple visual error.

I wonder why you didn't admit you got it wrong, in light of the "factual proof" in my link? That these gentle Labradors and spaniels will NOT be there to be rabbit KILLERS. Have you ever owned, or worked with, Labradors and spaniels?

Hang on jw while I without reserve except your apology's you may not claim your source is proof.
I too am no kid, and yes I make mistakes.
But the dogs shown in the press story I saw are border collies.
It may well be those dogs got posed for the picture, it happens, but if so it proves my point you can no believe everything you read.
Now that story did not say they would be used to flush out rabbits.
I however am willing to except your view that they are.
However
Life has taught me, never ever believe it just because you saw it in the Medea.
I at 11 years of age camped in a paddock with dad for months, snow and heat.
We trapped rabbits and sold them to a freezer works.
The skins bought much less than the meat but it helped .
Dad had a greyhound dog, she was our mate, she killed a few rabbits but trapping and the dog did not reduce numbers much.
Have you seen poison gas in borrows?
Penguins and just maybe, almost surely mutton birds live in rabbit borrows.
I believe with no doubt the rabbits must go , but have doubts dogs can or should be used to do it.
Now freezers are portable, have a look at some not unlike shipping containers.
If rabbits came in numbers to meat markets, wild rabbits they would sell like hot cakes.

Actually, as to the type of dog I expect most could be trained to chase and kill rabbits. My sister has a lab that loves nothing better than a good bunny chase with a yummy fresh bunny at the end of it. I suspect that most labs are town dogs, and generally to fat to care about chasing. Farm dogs are generally a different story though. As for spaniels, neighbours used to have a spaniel that loved a rabbit chase. It was too fat to be any danger to the bunnies, but it liked getting its share of the goods at the end of the hunt.

Does no-one think that there should be a humane way of dealing with this problem? So far, we have Belly with his extensive experience of trapping rabbits - what with, Belly? Steel jawed traps? And everyone else apparently believing that dogs tearing them to bits is okay.

Like most "pest" animals, it seems that any means of control/eradication, no matter how cruel, is just fine, regardless of the fact that these animals are there because of human neglect/negligence/ignorance/irresponsibility. Some animals are much more "equal" than others.

Myxomatosis, and other deliberately introduced diseases were/are shockingly cruel, as is gassing burrows, too. But what the hell. They're only rabbits.

Nicky

Welcome Nicky, lets get this clear, you are one of the few animal rights people I can get along with.
Sure we rarely agree but we do at times.
I share a few of your ideas.
And that warning for flaming you , the one you are unaware of was wrong, it was a wasted effort to swipe back at another poster.
Lets get back to the steel jawed rabbit traps.
Are you aware the ban came about because one idiot set one in a Sydney suburb a very long time ago to catch a cat?
And that lady, just one started the campaign that ended with the ban.
300 years ago we would have harvested our rabbit diner with a spear or bow and arrow.
Maybe a snare, one that kept the rabbit from moving until maybe days later the trapper came, some steel jawed victim waited too.
So Nicky how do we remove them?
Be honest are the natives more valuable than rabbits?
Do we shoot them? head shots gut shots 100.000 of them rough country we are not going to get every one in one shot.
Do we gas them? killing every thing the dogs put in the borrows?
I grew up hungry Nick we had meat only if we trapped rabbits, would it be any different for battlers in the bush today?
Ah the answer may be setting ferrets on them.
Ever felt the heart beat of a rabbit caught in the net as a ferret hurls its self on it?
Yet we must use ferrits or shoot them we are baned from useing traps
Do we let the rabbits live or save the wild life give me your view of how we do it and what we do.

Hi Belly
Thanks for that. You and I at least, when we disagree, do it politely and with respect for each others' views. I'm still a bit mystified about the flaming bit, but I suppose it will be made clear somewhere down the line.

I really wish I knew what the solution was to this, but I do know that it should be humane. If I were pushed tor an answer, I guess I would favour trained shooters with high-powered rifles. Steel jawed traps are evil devices, and rightly banned. A friend had a cat who was caught in one recently - and the cat had to have its leg amputated at the shoulder. No charges have been laid, although the trap was reported to have been set to catch a dog by some kids. "Not responsible", claim the authorities.

It's also a tough question about what animals are more "valuable" than others. I guess I think that all animals are here for their own reasons and intrinsic value, but I recognise that I'm in a minority there!

Cheers
Nicky

Pest eradication in Australia has been a dismal failure.

Rabbits have grown increasingly resistant to the Myxomatosis and Calicivirus diseases.

The Calicivirus is known to be excruciatingly painful, causing rabbits to scream and cry through their last minutes of life. Experts are convinced that this virus is not target specific and will jump species.

Dana Krempels, Ph.D lecturerer at the University of Miami on Evolution and Biodiversity, Botany, Zoology, Genetics and Ecology claimed she “personally knows a veterinarian who was studying in Australia, when the calicivirus was released to control the feral rabbit population.

"She reported that there have been confirmed cases of dead predatory birds that may have scavenged dead rabbit carcasses or caught live rabbits. She advised the bird tissues tested positive for the VHD virus, but that the Australian authorities are keeping the situation very hushed up for fear of a panic outbreak.”

Australian “experts” have also permitted the extremely cruel use of chloropicrin and phosphine as fumigants. Both these warren fumigants are hazardous to humans.

Recently, sixty residents of Salinas, California were poisoned when the fumigant chloropicrin drifted from strawberry fields a quarter of a mile away.

However, it appears that currently Australia’s rabbit “eradicators” and grain growers favour the use of phospine (aluminium phosphide) as a fumigant which is classified as a hazardous substance and listed under “dangerous goods. “

Warren fumigants are known to kill off goannas, snakes and other reptilian wildlife.

Fencing in my opinion, simply creates zoos which actually increase rabbit populations.

Sadly, CSIRO have abandoned their sterilisation research into the control of exotic “pests.” It has been proven that in the long term, humane sterilisation programmes are the most effective control method.

However, as is typical in Australia, stakeholders remain convinced that crops raised for human consumption and for consumption by the eco-destructive, exotic species of sheep and cattle must be protected by the "bomb and destroy" methods proven to be ethically, ecologically, biologically and economically disastrous.

These strategies have resulted in a return of rabbit numbers to the extent of 200-300 million.

So which species is the bunny?

Worth noting however these rabbits have thrived because of isolation on an Island.
And mexo is far from nice, I have no idea about the latest killer jumping species or killing in pain.
But mexo blinds first, after a while you just have to wonder about dozens of blind rabbits killed on the road.
Yes pain and suffering but is there any alternative?
Penguins live and breed on the Island chances are mutton birds too the rabbits have to go.

The Australian Government funded an intensive trapping programme, undertaken by the Tasmanian Government between 1997 and 2001, to eradicate cats from the island once and for all. Between 1974 and 2000, a total of 2450 cats were caught on the island.

The programme has been deemed a "success," and no cats have been seen on Macquarie Island since June 2000. (DEH)

Behold, the resurrections - plagues of the European rabbit, the black rat and the house mouse.

The Department of Environment and Heritage state that for many years, rabbit numbers have been kept relatively low by ripping warrens and releasing the virus that causes myxomatosis.

Perhaps this department should have given more credit to the cat for the control of the rabbits, mice and rats on the island?

The department has also advised that mice have been videoed eating seabird chicks (though not witnessed on the island.)

Rabbits, resistant to the 1080 bait, must now be fed three times the amount to take effect.

Apparently a joint Australian-Tasmanian government eradication plan programme was to move up a gear this year, by locking in many of the key parts underpinning the baiting run expected in 2009 or 2010 and mop up operation, such as training specialist rabbit tracker dogs as well as eradicating the rats and mice.

2009 or 2010?

The immuno-contraception has been proffered for decades yet research has ceased and it seems the poisoning of Australia will continue for perpetuity.

In the meantime, eradication programmes in Australia now cost the taxpayer $1 billion per year and I predict that with the onset of climate change, these costs will increase - the survival of the fittest!

The eradication programmes will continue whilst our Masters (collectively imbued with the mentality of a used car salesman) encourage the invasion of other aliens - the homo-sapien from other lands (about 300,000 this year) who together with the "locals" will bomb and destroy native habitats, wildlife, threatened plant species and ecological communities to obtain comfortable accommodation with impunity.

Ah....those pesky ferals!