I would be very interested if people could proffer an opinion about criminals, those who commit offences, and the consideration of insanity.

Could all criminals, those convicted of any offence, either large or small, be chronically or acutely insane? Is it possible for a completely sane person to commit any crime? Or, if we look more closely could we find that every "criminal" is or was not of sound mind, more or less, when they committed the offence, even for short periods of say, five to ten minutes - rage?

What are the standards by which sanity is declared?

And is punishment a relevant consideration in the 21st Century when dealing with convicted criminals? Perhaps we should be seeking to cure them rather than take revenge on them. What's the difference if they're removed from society for the safety of all, whether they're in one or the other?

Is there a difference between jail and confinement in a penal mental institution?

Finally, does anyone care about this matter?

Maximus, good questions.
I asked myself almost exactly the same questions when I heard the news a couple of weeks ago about that rabbit torturer:
"A SYDNEY financier jailed for 16 months over the mutilation deaths of 17 rabbits and a guinea pig is appealing his conviction on the grounds of mental illness."
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,20649192-5001028,00.html

I believe that people who inflict mental illness onto themselves by taking dangerous drugs such as Ice should not be able to use 'mental illness' in their appeal. This also counts for people who decide to binge drink. THey should be held responsible for their actions as well.
Drugs are NO excuse to put others (people or animals) in danger and no excuse for any other crimes.

If people choose to take drugs then they should also be responsible for their own actions under the influence of that drug.

Remains the question: Why were they taking those drugs in the first place? What came first, their mental illness or the drugs?

"Is it possible for a completely sane person to commit any crime?"
I wonder about that, too.
Isn't there always a mental problem present when people commit crimes?

"What's the difference if they're removed from society for the safety of all, whether they're in one or the other?"
Exactly, most criminals could to with some help, some rehabilitation. I really don't see how criminals can 'turn into responsible citizens' by locking them up for a few years and then letting them go again.

Unless they have some support or on some occasions 'insight' and motivation to improve their lives, punishment only wouldn't make much difference.
I don't know what the rate of re-offending is for released prisoners, but I've read somewhere that a lot of them do re-offend.

Sorry Maximus; I don't have any answers but I am interested in the answers to your interesting questions as well.

You care about this matter when an immediate realtive goes "inside".
Historically, our penal colony has treated the mentally ill disgracefully.
Has anything changed?
Access to good legal representation is the privilege of the affluent. The vulnerable ones do not have deep pockets.
By definition, criminals are from lower socio economic groups.
Incarceration unfortunately captures the mentally ill. Is there enough determination to filter these unfortunates out of the "system"? I doubt it.
Prisons are a barometer of how well we treat those often alot less fortunate than ourselves. This barometer seems to want to move towards sending them for punishment rather than the loss of liberty (as punishment).
As Chaplain Father Brosnan said, "...how we treat them determines how future victims are treated."
Sobering thoughts.

And What did the Good Chaplin Father Broslan say about the rabitts? I think Cilia has made a point. When will people take some reasonsibiltys for themselves.
Five year old kids now know drugs will kill you.
What about the victims of 'their victims" on the outside
Something else too that is not being even considered. When they let these often self inflicted brain effected people out of our public health system there is no requiremnt for that person to disclose their problem or carry a car.
Because many times people who know them wont allow them in their homes including family they seek private lodging.
Often share a com or something similar.
I know I advertised for a live in house keeper and the staff at the mental health hospital drove a person to my property.
I didnt know that because they sat outside.
I found out later when the woman lost it with a knife.
When I let them know i was not happy it was Oh the poor lady had a drug problem
Gee . Whose fault is that.

I am not responsible for others mistakes, nor celivia or the author.

Nor were the rabitts.

Pity belongs with those who deserve it.

This is an interesting article Maximus. I believe that all humans possess a latent ability to kill if threatened enough. One article I read about this said that criminials are often emotionally different. They may have been subjected to violence themselves or some kind of neglect when young and this hardens them emotionally so they don’t feel as much empathy with their victims.

Then there is the Physcopath who seems to be unable to feel any sympathy at all and usually likes to inflict pain on animals from an early age and then on people as well as they grow bigger and stronger. Are they insane or just emotionally unresponsive. Ted Bundy the serial killer had a very high IQ and being a lawyer defended himself at his trial.

Its surprising what so called honest people will take if nobody is watching like pens and other equipment from their workplaces or things from hotels they are staying at. Maybe it all depends on the way we are civilized or not as we are growing up.

Having said that there are definitely crimes committed by people who are insane or suffering from delusional thoughts. How many people are really “normal” anyway and what is normal? I have a cousin who would pinch anything that is not nailed down and yet he says he is the only sane one in his street.

Having thought about all of the above I agree with maximus that treatment is probably a better way to go than just locking people up in prison and just letting them out again the same as they went in.

It shouldnt cost any more should it to turn the prisons into mental institutions that provide physcological treatment for the milder criminals and serious physciatric treatment for the more serious offenders and maybe try to work with the physcopaths to restore some of their emotional empathy.

We can start too by questioning the parents of young kids wandering the streets at night and causing all kinds of trouble.
Not in every case, but in many cases parents should be held responsible for their underaged kids' criminal behaviour.

Sometimes kids are very well aware that the law cannot touch them and they can more or less do as they please.
I wonder if parents can be held responsible, would they think twice before they vandalise, steal, rob or assault?

What about those three boys (two 15 year olds and an 18 year old) last year, who tortured a kitten?
What were they doing at a railway station at 2:30 am?
They should have been at home in bed.

"A Sydney teenager has been sentenced to four months of home detention for torturing a kitten.

Christopher Lee Herreros, 18, was one of three youths captured on closed circuit television abusing the kitten at Seven Hills Railway station in Sydney's west earlier this year.

He was filmed throwing the animal against a brick wall on the platform and then running it over repeatedly on his bike.

He then left it on the railway tracks to die.

In Blacktown Local Court, Herreros was sentenced to home detention and ordered to undergo rehabilitation for alcohol abuse.

But the New South Wales Opposition says the sentence is totally inadequate and the teenager should have gone to jail.

Opposition justice spokesman Andrew Humperson says the punishment is no deterrent.

"Being forced to stay at home enjoying backyard BBQ and cable TV is not a punishment, it is not even an inconvenience," he said.

"Punishment for a crime of this nature is to spend time in jail and participate in rehab programs whilst you're behind bars.

"The message is simple, if you torture an animal, you should go to jail."

The 15 year old boys? I couldnt find what happened to them, perhaps they got off with a warning or some counselling??

Why are parents not held responible for their kids' crap acts?

What do others think about that?

From a legal standpoint most jurisdictions that accept insanity pleas define insanity as a mental state in which the accused either did not know what he was doing or was unaware that what he was doing was wrong. In practice this is only applied when the accused was acutely and severely psychotic at the time of the offence. Other types of mental illness, such as depression or addictions might be taken as mitigating circumstances in sentencing, but the criminal is still regarded as culpable.

Deinstitutionalisation of the mental health system (without adequate community based services to replace the old institutions) has led to prisons having to deal more than they used to with the seriously mentally ill, however the vast majority of prisoners are not psychotic, and most people with psychosis are not criminals.

In my experience, the major factor underlying criminal behaviour is antisocial personality traits caused by various forms of social deprivation. Such poor socialization has multiple antecedents including dysfunctional parenting, mental immaturity, poverty, disrupted education, and, increasingly, intellectual disability. Mental illness actually plays a direct role in very few crimes, with the exception of the group of mental illness called addictions. Indirectly, of course, poorly managed mental illness may exacerbate poor socialization. Substance abuse and intoxication is a major factor in many, if not most crimes. For the majority, getting out of cycles of crime means fostering social maturity, and especially tackling substance abuse and dependence. You can’t prevent crime without addressing questions of social justice.

True psychopathy is rare, and most psychologists reckon you can’t treat it: the best you can do is manage the “sufferer” to cause as little damage as possible.