Seeing this word is in the vocabulary and none of the y generation omit using it no matter where they are, should it be a given; that it is common language.

F xxk me!

What an insightful way of depriving Gordon F Ramsay of his singular draw-card! My regard for Jason60 is rising faster than the space elevator in the Lion of Comarre. Here was I thinking he was just a s xxt stirrer.

And it is indeed a common word, in every sense.

I swear and use the word occasionally.

But I really think that a lot of swearing shows an inability of a person to make use of the English language. I do not think educators put enough emphasis on English and young people are not taught. In my case it is pure laziness.

I find if I swear too much, I have nothing shocking left to say when I really need to.

It is a really good word, but should be used sparingly and retain its taboo, otherwise it becomes meaningless and loses all its emphasis and becomes an excuse for expressionless dialogue, in the same way that "like, you know, kind of" is used ad nauseam among the young and uneducated. In the right way and the right time the F word is an extremely powerful word, but unfortunately its over-use deprives it of any gravity or substance, and that's a pity.

I don't think it's as simple as using it too much. Occasionally you hear it being overused in a clever way that's hard to explain in text. An awful lot depends on positioning and emphasis.

I think the way people drop it into the middle of words, like abso-effing-lutely can be quite clever. Gordon Ramsay is not someone who understands the artful use of the word. Billy Connelly is.

I started using this word when I was about 8. I thought it was a new word. Before then the worse word I knew was "bloody".

My nephew used it from a very early age (2 and a half). His parents used it a lot so they didn't punish him, although he was told not to say it at other people's places or when they had visitors.

Years ago, I remember a cousin of mine having his mouth washed out with soap and water for saying "bottom".

The "F" word is a crude and ignorant description of sexual intercourse. That's the reason why it has such an impact on many people.... it's crudeness and ignorance. That's also why it's often used as a personal abuse.

It's part of everyday language yes, BUT, only for "some" people. If "some" people wish to put their ignorance on public display by using this stupid word, then that's their right to do so. If other people don't wish to use this word (except maybe if they stub their toe etc etc etc) then that's also their right.

Because a word is in common usage doesn't make it intelligent, right or worthwhile. Also, because a word is in common usage doesn't make it unintelligent, wrong or not worthwhile. The fact is the "F" word, because of it's crudeness and ignorance, delivers the persona of 'moron' to it's regular, unthinking users. Keep in mind a moron can be a person who is either unintelligent or intelligent. A certain caught out politician for example, via his well publicised swearing escapades some years ago, has shown himself to be a rather moronic, uncouth man, but at the same time nobody could accuse him of being unintelligent. Intelligent people don't always use intelligent language.

The "F" word is just plain stupid, and reflects on the user.

relax folks, in a recent publication by the NSW Dept. of Education meant for the parents of all new school starters next year, the letter F was removed from their rendition of the alphabet. Within a generation the F word shall be a thing of the past.

Out of the overflow of the heart a person speaks. Filthy language uncovers a filthy heart. In saying that these filthy words are not nearly as bad as the blasphemy of the only Man that can save them. It is quite noticeable that people commonly use Jesus Christ as a swear or curse word. You rarely or never hear Buddha, Mohamed etc being used in that manner. Why? Hollywood is full of god haters who are happy for people to have their religion. Look at the fruitcakes like Tom Cruise, Shirley McClain, Michael Moore etc etc. The Lord's name is blasphemed because people hate the reality of the power of that name that can save them from their rotten sin. Unfortunately most love their sin more than God.

We all swear and that's a fact
In life there are moments
not covered by tact
Politeness only goes so far
In situations where we lose control
It's the F word that really says it all!

Yes, like it or not the F - word is
here to stay. It does not show a limited vocabulary
or a "filthy" mind as some posters would have you
believe. On the contrary, it's simply a way of venting
off steam in an extremely difficult situation, where
the other words don't quite have the same impact.

"Oh dear!" or "Goodness me!" or "Bother!"
just doesn't do it. If you're in dire straits you're
not going to "tsk, tsk!" you're going to "let it
rip!"

It is the word used often by the lazy,unimaginative and uninspired.It has now lost it's impact.So why bother using it?

When I was a navy pilot, back when we still had an aircraft carrier, I swore a bit. On board it was almost like a competition to be the most foul mouthed.

When ashore, most of us found we could turn it off, but it had to be completely. You could not cuss a little, or more mildly, it was all or nothing. It was a complement we could pay a lady, even if she did not know we were doing it.

Then along came womens lib. Those we had thought to be ladies started to swear. It was used as a badge of their independence, or so it seemed.

It left me with a minor problem. I felt a little strange, being the only one in a room, who did not swear. I did learn to cuss a little, but I always felt a little poorer for it

Hasbeen, you've described my own experience with swearing perfectly. I can remember my dad rebuking me "nice men don't swear in front of the ladies", followed by a visit to my room and a whack with the strap when I was about 10 or so (I think I said "bloody"). I still don't, but I found that by the time turned 20 or so, the "ladies" had no such compunction.

I teach my kids that swearing is usually just laziness, but that it can sometimes be an appropriate response. As others have said, overuse means it loses its value as an expletive and is often simply for want of another appropriate word.

A fun activity!

"Our parents always taught us
You have to be polite
Show your good manners
Don't swear and avoid fights

Yet there are certain moments
That'll come out of the blue
When much to our surprise
We'll yell the words,
'Screw you!'"

A human foible, I guess...

Anyone who has walked through a group of young people in a school or in a shopping centre will have heard the F word dropped a number of times

I have to admit I don't like it and I don't know what the answer is. Even if children are not permitted to swear at home if they can get away with it at school and it is part of peer culture what can be done?

I have used the word myself on rare ocassions when another word just wouldn't do :) but when it becomes everday it diminishes the language and reflects badly on the speaker.

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Once upon a time the word "swyve" was the word we used, then it became the word we are talking about. All it means is the act sexual intercourse, for goodness' sake. Why on earth should that be considered so heinous?

Shakespeare and co were forever telling people to go and get swived, swyved, swayved (they could never get any of their spelling to conform) So why should it be such a crime for someone to tell one to "Go and get..."? Hey, it would be my pleasure. Its like saying "Go and have a wonderful and pleasurable experience" Why is that so unacceptable?

Yes, as someone who values the English language I get pee'd off with people who use it monotonously - as I get similarly pee'd off with those who use the word "basically" or "at this point in time" in the same way ( I once counted a t.v. interviewee who used "basically" 18 times in one protracted sentence!). As other posters have said; its lazy and detracts from the beauty and richness of our enormous vocabulary...the largest in the world.

But to feel uncomfortable if women use it? Geez. If it weren't for women the verb would only exist in very limited circles!

So; - if that is such a no-no how do people feel about the noun "c#unt"? Gotta admit I had reservations until I found out exactly what the etymlogy of the word was. Now I feel completely enraged because I have to insert an asterisk there while Big Brother will allow me to write the word "penis" without one!

The "F" word does NOT merely mean sexual intercourse. This is a common misunderstanding of language by a lot of people.

The "F" word (or equivalent words in any language from any era) is a "crude" expression of a "crude" approach to sexual intercourse. This has nothing to do with approval or disapproval of the word; the word is simply what it IS, and pretending that it isn't shows a deep misunderstanding of the word, or an "I couldn't care less anyway" attitude.

It's been stated that the word is used by everybody. This is clearly FALSE. It is NOT used by "everybody". It may be used by everybody a particular person associates with; this does NOT mean it's used by "everybody".

It's not "just a word", and pretending it is doesn't make it so.

Romany

I am not sure what you are saying, in one part you are asking what the fuss is about and in another arguing against monotonous use of the F word(and other words).

In the public service many words and phrases become jargon because of overuse and often the words are used incorrectly and have no bearing to the original meaning. Words such as 'like' and 'basically' or 'um' are overused to the extent that I tune out if it takes more than a few minutes to articulate something that would normally take a few seconds.

Words are not ONLY words - they have impact and emphasis within a cultural context and language portrays meaning not just words. F** is not used in the context of a sexual act. When someone says F* off they are not saying go away and have sex. The word is generally used in a disrespectful way or sometimes in humour (as in stand up comedy).

As for penis, it is not the same as the C word but rather vagina. (It will be interesting to see if the site allows the correct biological terminology).

(I had to change it to the C word as the site did not allow astericks for me)

Asterisks.

I'm usually relatively ambivalent regarding the word, but after reading Sally's last post I think she makes some really good points about the 'real' meaning of the word. She's right, it's not just a description of normal sexual intercourse, it's a description of "crude" sexual intercourse. I also think that when the word is not used in an immediate sexual context, like "f off", the sexual nature of the word is still implied in the phrase. That's why it's a cuss phrase, and most cuss words and phrases have crude sexual content, and this is why those words and phrases impact.

Sorry, Pelican,

What I was trying to get at was that it IS just a word. A word which, like any other, becomes tiresome with overuse. The idea of a word in itself being "bad" is what I'm arguing about: they are simple codes for ideas. For centuries it was a perfectly acceptable code for expressing a perfectly normal and necessary aspect of human and animal behaviour. Only, surely, if we think the idea it expresses is bad could we find the expression of that idea offensive?

To say that it now expresses a crude aspect of this behaviour is I think, problematic. What on earth is a common understanding of "crude" sexual intercourse? One couples crude could be another's turn-on. An entire meta-discourse could hinge upon this. And then one would have to straighten out the idea of when the meaning of the word changed to represent this concept - before or after it became considered a no-no?

Swearing and Cursing has been around as long as humanity - however what was considered unacceptable was not a particular word but an idea: - in a superstitious world to curse someone on Joves head, or on God's blood; or equally to swear to something by Jesus' heart or God's nails was to bring down evil upon them or to blaspheme. One could be jailed, pilloried or beaten for such offences. But the individual words - God, Jove, blood, nails etc. - remained unsullied.

Similarly, in bringing in the infamous cee word to the discussion: - that was also once a perfectly innocuous naming of a body part. Only if the body part itself were considered unacceptable could the word for it have been outlawed.

(Substituting the word vagina is a very recent adoption of a Latin word which language purists - and most lesbians - abhor: the word derives from the word for 'a sheath' which, they claim, gives the idea that there is only one purpose for it. Whereas the original - and now unusable - word was simply a name as unremarkable as elbow, shin or nose.)

I'm on the fly, so just a quick note. I haven't read the thread so I hope I'm not repeating stuff.

The main problem I have with the use of the F word and others thought of as offensive is the chronic inconsistency with which they are dealt.

The F word is commonly used on television but seems to be completely out of bounds in our printed media, and television news.

It is in everyday use in general conversation, in public, but woe betide you if you utter it in front of a police officer, even if it is not used in direct reference to them of the law.

Utter inconsistency.... not that this is anything unusual.

But why? Why on earth can't the it all just be brought into line??

Arrrgh! I just can't possibly write a post quickly without it being full of sh!tty l!ttle errors!

You've got to spell-check and then proof-read at least half a dozen times...or else it just comes out at kindergarten standard...guaranteed!!

Fwaark!

(Now there's an appropriate use for the F word!.... as an expletive for frustration and powerlessness....as opposed to the inappropriate usage as an offensive expletive...eg, you f....g moron Ludwig, get your act together...always spell-check and proof-read!)

How times have changed.

I remember a time when the word "bloody" was too hot for radio.

The problem with some words is that they lose their impact through gratuitous overuse.

It's reasonably acceptable to use "the F word" as an exclamation point but most tend to use it as a comma.

It's funny how most of you say that this word is a crude way to describe sexual intercourse but unfortunately I feel you are wrong.

The word F-U-C-K is in fact a real word and stands for 'fornicate under the consent of the king.

It dates back to early time when a girl was married the couple had to seek permission from the king to fornicate.

Having said this I use it and I can tell you it is most likely the best known word in the world and, sometimes it is the only word that works.

' sometimes it is the only word that works.'

In my house it only works in that it results it mouths being washed out with soap. Unfortunately the raw sewerage flows from the TV from time to time before I can turn it off. Good reason I suppose to get rid of it.

You're simply wrong regarding the "modern" meaning of the f word.

Sexual intercourse has MANY respectful words that describe it. The f word is NOT one of them. I'm not saying people shouldn't use it habitually if they are THAT neanderthal, it's their right to do so if they choose.

But pleeeeeeeaaaaase, don't pretend the f word means something it doesn't mean. It IS a crude way to describe sexual intercourse. It's a fact of life, when people wish to refer respectfully to sexual intercourse they have a whole heap of other terms they can easily use. Some people approach sexual intercourse with respect.......other people just want a F; so be it. But at least, UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE: It's amazing the number of adults, usually "men", who can't grasp that difference; they're probably too busy grasping their you know what.

The f word makes an impact because it's CRUDE. That's a "fact" of life!

Rechtub,

I think someone has been pulling your leg! If any King in history had to give permission for a couple to consummate their marriage he would never have been able to go away to war or rule his kingdom...let alone beget future kings and queens for his country. Besides which, in days when it could take a person three days to travel twenty miles, leaving ones farm to go traipsing about the country trying to find the king on his travels would have led not only to congested roads but to famine in the land!

The main objection to such a theory however, is that the word fornicate means to commit adultery. If a couple were married they would not be fornicating.

As I said in a previous post, the word in question is very old and its origins into Old English stretch back a long way. It's usually agreed that the word came to England with the Vikings or even earlier so it well predates the word fornicate which emerged from the Latin around the 13th century.

Thanks Romany.

I wasn't having a go at you even though on re-reading my last post it may have appeared as such.

It is certainly an interesting topic - the origin of words - and you are certainly the more learned on matters of language. :)

runner: << In my house it only works in that it results it mouths being washed out with soap. Unfortunately the raw sewerage flows from the TV from time to time before I can turn it off. Good reason I suppose to get rid of it. >>

Sounds like a feckin' hazardous house you live in, old chap.

Times have indeed changed. Who remembers the brouhaha around the late and great Graham Kennedy's version of the call of the Australian crow - FAAAARRRRKKK! - on Channel 9 many years ago? Kerry Packer apparently had an apoplexy.

And that other rude word...

This is probably apocryphal - I've heard numerous versions of it over the years, but this one has more detail than most:

Many years ago, before the Country Party morphed into the Nats,

"Winton Turnbull, then a member of the Country Party, was droning on about something or other and rather grandly announced "I am a Country member." At which point Gough Whitlam called out "We remember!"

http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-100343.html

It probably needs to be filed along with the various versions of the "Far Queue" headline that slip through subeditors from time to time, I think.

My view is that they're both useful words that need to be used judiciously and sparingly to have much meaning. I think wobbles' point about the grammatical function of a good f xxk is a good one.

Now that I think of it, the Gough story reminds me of a very funny experience I once had as a junior academic. At the time another department was headed by an ebullient Professor with a great sense of humour and a fondness for beer. As it happened, a certain Dr Hunt was employed in his department.

One evening at the Staff Club, the Prof was holding court with his acolytes (including me) when he spied the hapless Dr Hunt entering the room - at which the Prof bellowed out over the crowd "Has anybody seen Mike Hunt?" There was a momentary silence and then the entire room erupted in laughter - it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

I don't remember what happened to Dr Hunt that night, but I still crack up at the memory of the joke. The Prof must have set it up, because it never happened again - or maybe poor old Dr Hunt never went back to the club...

A true story, I promise.

Umptien years ago,as a migrant, arriving at Australia's beautiful shores,one did get greated by wharfies: "Here is another F*ing boatload of F-ing New F-ing Australians", "what the Bl-dy Hell do they come here for? Send the F-ers back!"
It took a while to understand what it meant, but as time went by I started to appreciate the colourful expressions and in my opinion as a "scholar of this world" it sets the Australian apart from the rest.
Take Ozzie soldiers/sailors for instance they are known and feared all around the world for their ruff'n'tuffness and are the most colourful in their expressions and deeply respected.Let's keep this language as it shows clearly and directly (to the point) how one feels in a multitude of situations.Besides it would create "oneness" without the Shake'my'spearian approach.

Oh come on,there are better things to do?Are you serious?
Fxxk off!

Excuse me!You put it there
Remove your profanity first. Be fair.

socratease

sometimes it is the only word that works.'

In my house it only works in that it results it mouths being washed out with soap. Unfortunately the raw sewerage flows from the TV from time to time before I can turn it off. Good reason I suppose to get rid of it.
Posted by runner, Monday, 8 September 2008 4:55:35 PM

Oh dear, some households must be so boring. Best you keep your family in a cocoon runner as you dare not let them mingle with us crude folk hey! On the other hand 90% of the population can't all be wrong you know.
As for my assumption of the meaning of the word I accept that I was wrong. Funny sounded logical to me but I did state that it was my opinion.

Still, the word works for me, fits perfectly at times and is well understood in most countries. I say again, 'sometimes it's the only word that works'.
You f-whit, what the f-, how the f-, why the f-, f-off, f- no, and the classics, how the f- would I know or for f- sake.

You know, I doubt there is a single word that can be used in so many ways to describe so many things with such meaning and no one has to say 'please explain'. Now there's a challenge for all you prudes out there hey!

No offence but I will continue to use it if you don't mind as I accept that times have changed and we have little choice but to move with it.

For f- sake, lighten up, were not all goodie two shoes god botheres you know!

Rechtub, it's got NOTHING to do with god botherering or being a prude. It's just a stupid, dumb word, simple as that: Not much different from the dumb crim who says "I didn't do nothin'".....he's too stupid to know that the double negative implies the exact OPPOSITE of what he's trying to say. "Habitually" using the F word is much the same....habitual users are just too stupid to know how stupid they sound. Habitual users are only a small minority, not 90%. Most people use the word, or some other cuss word, if they accidently stub their toe or under similar circumstances....nothing wrong with that. It's the "HABITUAL" users, who incorporate this DUMB word into their everyday language, who just put on dislplay their ignorance and stupidity. There's far more intelligent substitutes for the F word. Like I said, it has nothing to do with prudes(prudes are against just about everything), but EVERYTHING to do with ignorance. It's a crude and ignorant way to talk, using the F word "habitually". Speech doesn't get dumber than that!

Sansung,
Oh come, come. People who use double negatives are "dumb" and/or "stupid"? That's exceedingly harsh. I would have thought, surely, that they were merely poorly educated? Hardly an indication of their mental capacity. After all, I'm sure that the faulty grammar in the sentence:"There's far more intelligent substitutes for the F word." doesn't signal any lack of intelligence on your part.

I would also have think that someone who uses the word habitually gives an indication of their socio-economic background rather than any kind of intelligence deficiency. After all, politicians who habitually use phrases such as "working families" are neither dumb nor ignorant, business people who habitually use words such as basically, and teenagers who habitually use the word random immediately give away their origins by the same habit of using a word or phrase in a repetative way.

Pelican. No, you were quite right to point out my lack of clarity...as has been pointed out often, it's only too easy to be completely misunderstood on these threads. And yeah, the study of the English language, which a lot of people think is dry and boring, can be totally absorbing and fascinating, can't it?

Actually Romany, you should maybe get the facts right. That poster did NOT say people in general who use double negatives are dumb. The poster specifically said dumb criminals, you know......those people who commit crimes and get caught, often say "I didn't do nothin'" when they get caught. And the poster is correct in saying that the caught criminal by saying "I didn't do nothin'" is really saying "I did it", because of the double negative. The poster is saying the criminal is too dumb to realise what he's actually saying. These criminals are NOT smart, they are dumb; after all, they got caught. The poster's comments referred ONLY to "criminals" and ONLY to criminals who were "dumb". And he is absolutely correct.

Another point Romany, you criticise the poster for bad grammar in his sentence "There's far more intelligent substitutes for the F word". Would you please tell us precisely where the bad grammar exists? It looks perfectly ok to me. And so what, anyway! It's rather silly criticising someone's post because of what you think is bad grammar, and even sillier when you're wrong.