Arjay the western suburbs of Sydney is not the whole.
The idea that half, one in two Sydney siders wants to leave is not believable.
While we should not take newspaper story's on face value the weekend ones added to this debate.
Costa it seems is about to be rolled.
What a shame it was not 12 months ago.
Morris we are expected to think was a follower and not to blame?
He without doubt if that was true and it is not would not be fit to be in the house with a mop and bucket in his hands and he isn't.
Some who took to the podium at conference like our unfortunate Minister for health to insult the party machine are not forgiven or forgotten.
Had your leader supported the sale we could have had an election very soon.
I have no doubts the ALP would have split on this issue.
While party power brokers may be offended by my thoughts.
And want a healing.
It would do no harm to remember a brick building is built one brick at a time.
Each brick in this case is a party voter and they will vote without doubt as they think.
What would you think of a party that said your vote did not count at conference then told you to follow the line?
Morris must go, will go sooner the better.

Arjay, in June Iemma said that his infrastructure plans were not dependent on selling off electricity assets. Now he wants us to believe that we'll all be rooned if we don't sell. The likelihood is that his career will be rooned if he can't get his hands on 10 billion to bribe us for our votes, and NSW will carry on.

It's debatable whether we have too many public servants in most areas; but we have more than we can afford right now.

The Govt. has no mandate to sell/lease anything either with the electorate or within their own team. Liars is the appropriate word.

It amazes me that we accept governments telling us more and more how to think and behave while they get out of providing concrete services. I draw the line at the provision of power and water; even as a Lib supporter I want my govt. to provide these two basic services, at the very least.

Iemma thinks this sale is too important for Parliament to decide. His Communist daddy would be proud of his fascistic offspring. Perhaps he'll leave our kids alone on Saturday nights and turn the dogs onto his recalcitrant party members instead.

It's difficult not to feel contempt for this lying rodent, and his manipulative predecessor.

How about we reintrodue some FACTS into this debate.

Forrest Gump.

New South Wales is currently a net IMPORTER of electricity from the National Electricity Market. That is, NSW is not producing the electricity it needs to sustain its' own usage.
http://www.esaa.com.au/images/stories/Market_reports/2008_07_26nem.pdf

Victoria, (where electricity supply is privatized) is a net exporter.

For $11 billion in sales and services NSW needs 14,100 employees. Victoria needs only 5900 employees to generate sales of $8.3 billion. http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/C3C6498F956F6B12CA25720500243430/$File/82260_2004-05.pdf

Virtually every other state besides New South Wales has a deregulated power industry. Capital expenditure on infrastructure is significantly lower in NSW than the national average. And don’t forget that many of these other states with higher capital expenditures are net exporters of electricity to the NEM. http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/C3C6498F956F6B12CA25720500243430/$File/82260_2004-05.pdf

Regarding Victorian privatization - From the competition watchdog.
>> The majority of customers are benefiting from the competitive process as firms continuously strive for competitive advantage against actual and potential rivals by improving their price and service offering in ways that better meet the preferences of energy consumers. http://www.aemc.gov.au/pdfs/reviews/Review%20of%20the%20Effectiveness%20of%20Competition%20in%20the%20Electricity%20and%20Gas%20Retail%20Markets%20in%20Victoria/aemcdocs/002Second%20Final%20Report.pdf

Billie,

Says >> “Commonsense says that state provision of electricity should be cheaper than private ownership ”

WTF? Besides that being totally incorrect, by your reasoning the govt should look after all our needs including services and manufacturing. This is really arrant nonsense. The state cannot do things like generate and transmit electricity more cheaply or more effectively than private enterprise. That fact has been shown over and over, including here in Australia.

The facts show that the most economically liberal 20% of countries are also the most wealthy, significantly outperforming the others. On the flip side, the 20% of economies which are least free are not only poorer than the rest of the world, they are actually less free politically as well.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp102.pdf

I fully accept that there is no mandate for this change at the present time and as such it should be shelved for later consideration. The Unions in particular, (although the moronic opposition should also wear some of the blame) have run a highly successful scare campaign.

Paul L,

Thanks for the links. My only quibble with you is as to your use of the word 'RE-introduce' in your first sentence. In both this thread, and the power sell-off debate at large, those of us who are not insiders to the electricity industry have been so far forced to operate in what is virtually a fact-free zone. Yours is the first introduction of what are claimed to be facts, and for that I thank you.

My overwhelming impression is that NONE of the actual players in this saga, government, opposition, NEM, or unions, have wanted to be open with the public (who right or wrong own the business in NSW), and that is what has been so profoundly irritating.

The bar chart in your first link showing the extent to which each State is a nett exporter or importer of electricity is most revealing. NSW is indeed a nett importer, to the tune of what looks like around 6% of its total demand.

Victoria, contrary to what you state, is neither a nett importer or exporter.

Tasmania is a nett importer to the tune of around 20% of total demand. SA is like Victoria. Queensland is the only nett exporter, effectively meeting the NSW and Tasmanian deficits. WA is a separate grid, not part of the NEM.

What's the problem? Queensland is being paid for its exports, is it not? Is Queensland facing electricity shortages, either temporary or long-term?

What really worries me is the claim made in the OLO article "Fencing wire and mirrors: the world of the National Energy System" http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7585 , that NSW (and Victorian, Queensland and Tasmanian) electors have been totally disfranchised in favour of SA electors with respect as to the making of the legislative framework for the NEM. No government had, or has, any mandate to hand off its responsibilities like that!

Looks like the NEM just wants to hike prices across the nation, and our public NSW electricity business is in their way!

Good job, Fatty O'Barrell!

Paul L I remember attending a funeral in dec 2000 when there was no electricity because the electricity retailers had turned off Victoria to supply South Australia because South Australia was paying a higher spot price. Legislation was hastily passed to stop that occurrence happening again until 2008.

I am totally against overseas board rooms making decisions about our utilities and infrastructure, they do not wear or see the pain of their wrong decisions. And you will find there is no australian organisation considered big enough to purchase the power generating capacity at throw away prices.

As Naomi Klein would say where are the World Bank and IMF bureaucrats who are pulling the strings.

Lets face it if we in NSW run out of power it will be because of decades of failure to build new stations.
Not failure to sell the lot.
And a sale is only possible if it is seen as a good investment.
NSW stands to find some very big industry leaving, Aluminum is one such.
Not sure why conservatives failed to follow long term policy, but how do they ask us to sell if ,well when elected?
In truth Iemma is gone only he does not know it, in 2 weeks the NSW local government elections may highlight the damage he continues to do to this states ALP.