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The Forum > General Discussion > Some myths debunked

Some myths debunked

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Bugsy,

Those who want war will prepare for war.

Vegetius seems to have been addressing his comments to those who want peace. They too have to prepare for war.

This is an unpleasant thought. It’s one well-intentioned peace-lovers hate to contemplate. They cannot get their heads around the thought that there are really bad people out there who may want to kill you and your children.

Mostly however, they are rational and can be deterred.

IN the current case the danger, as I have said "again and again" is not Muslim terrorism. It is the piece by price surrender of vital freedoms in order to appease Muslims.

Here ia an example of what I mean. I've quoted it elsewhere:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/19/2339561.htm

Quote:

"But Random House decided to pull the book after advice that it "might be offensive" to some Muslims, and "could incite acts of violence by a small radical segment".

"The publishing group says they want to ensure the safety of the author, Random House staff and others."

Just a little bit, a teeny little bit, an almost imperceptible little bit, of the right to free speech died with that book.

So tiny that people will mock me for mentioning it.

How much will die tomorrow? And the day after tomorrow?
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Monday, 25 August 2008 6:02:55 PM
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Kalin1 and StevenImeyer,
It is a discontinuous thinking and an unhappy mind that sees the world in only Black and White (a series of extremes).
Likewise the idea that the only options are war or appeasement is asinine.

My adopted dad impressed two ideas on me.
• “If a war comes be in B company…Be here in company when they go and… be here in company when they come back”.
• “If you’re going to give your life to a cause make sure it’s yours, not someone else’s…”
If you think about it logically Australia has been to several wars for other peoples’ agendas (power and profit).
• Boer War …to maintain the British sovereignty over South Africa.
• WW1… to maintain English pride and Empire. Churchill was the architect and advocate for Gallipoli.
• WW2 … Evidence is that the Japs didn’t have plans to invade Australia until we declared war on them. (At the time it simply wasn’t worth it. Known resources V resources to invade.)
More Ausies died protecting England’s interests than protecting Australia’s. The common factor in both WW’s was a British conservative politics and Winston Churchill who tried to keep our troops in Europe rather defending Australia. Even when the ships were made available they were diverted to defend British Malaya.
• Korea … Conservative USA (via UN) fighting Communism.
• Vietnam … USA Pride and Major powers stupidity (colonial rights)

The justification for Vietnam were the “threat of the great Asian hordes”, “Reds under the bed se”, “Domino principle” (not fast food company). The west lost that one where’s the horde?
Our soldiers did their honourable duty (I honour that) but in the final analysis who benefited?

Who starts wars? Leaders (political and corporate) usually justifying the unconscionable on either political or nationalistic grounds (pride), while telling us only what they want us to know.

Israel/ Palestine conflict is different.

I wouldn’t die for Australia but I would to preserve lives.
“ Patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel” Dr Samuel Johnson
Have you got the imagination to break the cycle?
Posted by examinator, Monday, 25 August 2008 6:04:37 PM
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Dear examinator,

Wow, you Sir, are impressive!

I like the way you think!
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 25 August 2008 7:12:14 PM
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Examinator,

I have no idea what you mean by "discontinuous thinking"

I do not know why you think I have an "unhappy mind" whatever that may mean.

I most definitely do not see the world in black and white.

But I do hope that I am realistic.

I agree that Australia should only go to war to defend its own interests. As a South African I've often wondered why Australia got involved in the Boer war!

However judging what is in Australia's interests can be difficult. Take your example of declaring war on Japan.

Did the Japanese ever plan to invade Australia?

I have no way of knowing. More importantly I DOUBT THE GOVERNMENT OF THE TIME HAD ANY WAY OF KNOWING.

However, that is almost besides the point. The question I think many people were asking themselves is this:

If this very aggressive military power called Japan, that has already invaded China and Korea and acted with terrible brutality, becomes the dominant power in our region what, happens to me then?

My guess is that most Australians would not have wanted to find out.

World War 1 is more problematical. The Kaiser's Germany, though quite a brutal regime, was not Nazi Germany. It probably posed little threat to Australia. The Brits sacrificed Australian troops with what I can only call careless abandon. Your case there is stronger.

How about sending troops to fight against Germany at the start of WW2?

1939 was not 1914. The reach of great powers was much longer. The thought of Nazi Germany becoming what we today call a super-power must have seemed horrific.

FDR secretly broke US law to help Britain in 1939-41 because he recognised that growing Nazi power posed a threat to America. Arguably it did to Australia as well.

However here is a brutal reality. As a small country Australia sometimes has no choice but to tag along with allies and hope for the best.

Whether or not you would "die for Australia" is your choice
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Monday, 25 August 2008 7:25:45 PM
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Steven,

I am far less worried about the little freedoms that we appear to be losing by 'appeasing' Muslims, than I am about the big freedoms that we are losing in the name of fighting them.
Posted by Bugsy, Monday, 25 August 2008 7:32:20 PM
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Bugsy,

I cheated and got an alternative login. ;-)

You write:

"I am far less worried about the little freedoms that we appear to be losing by 'appeasing' Muslims, than I am about the big freedoms that we are losing in the name of fighting them."

I do not think free speech is a "little freedom."

I suggest you should be equally concerned by both the freedoms we lose by appeasing Islam and the freedoms we lose by giving up too much power to the state in the name of "national security."
Posted by smeyer, Monday, 25 August 2008 8:21:55 PM
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