Steel, I didn't view this as an attack on any religion, I just saw the apparent abuse of the system that we are paying for.

Banjo, again I don't see the problem as being confined to members of any specific religion. You are right that an athiest's mistress can fleece the system too. 'Why anyone would want more than one wife at a time escapes me'. Exactly, why would you want two mothers-in-law?

I just hate to see the government throwing money at those who don't deserve it while the genuine needy are in strife.

Austin Powerless,
I also do not see the problem to do with only one religion but the link Easy Times gave was to do with a muslim bloke who allegedly had two wives. I was refering to that TV show when I mentioned muslims.

Yeah, two mothers in law and what if the wives went shopping together, one would be always broke.

Dear Examinator

You said:

Values are esoteric abstractions created by perception of motherhood culture, maintained the individual and therefore devoid of absolutes? Logically then Value Purity is simply an oxymoron.Besides "Purity" implies a rating who's the arbiter?

The answer to all those questions is... "we the people" :)

You are quite correct. But on the issue of values.. let's take but one simple example.

WIFE BEATING... now.. most of know that this practice is not only permitted by one major religion, but is also explained in detail as to how it should be done.. 'no bruises... no facial wounds' etc.. on numerous 'family help video's on Youtube taken from certain news/current affairs programs from the Middle East.

Australian values are "No wife beating".... now.. do you not see a conflict there? an easily identifiable one... ?

The only way it can be decided is for people who are concerned about this as a social issue.. to make it a POLITICAL issue and persue the democratic patheway to victory at the policy level.

True?

Treading on thin ice here, Boaz.

>>WIFE BEATING... now.. most of know that this practice is not only permitted by one major religion... Australian values are "No wife beating"<<

Does this "one major religion" also advise how fathers should beat their daughters?

Because we all know that you do, don't you? You told us all about it, in earnest detail.

Tell me, what is the moral difference that you see between beating a wife and beating a daughter?

Both acts are those of a man who sees the other as some form of possession, to be dealt with as he sees fit.

Just because your religion doesn't have what you call an instruction book doesn't make your actions any less culpable.

After all, it is their deeds that define people, not some abstract rulebook that you can choose to ignore when you feel like it, then beat your chest in mock humility saying , well, we're none of us perfect, are we.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Boaz.

And whatever other name he chooses to adopt whenever he feels like it.

Polycarp old chap :-)

I said who's the arbiter? You said "we the people"... democracy?
Then you substitute this for religious based values arguing ‘which is the only religion….? (Straw man argument?)... Wrong on two counts!

There are several hundred indigenous religions in Melanesia alone that in their “pure form” are patriarchal in this way. Unless your religious views are so arrogant that you don’t recognize them a ‘real’ religions. (Many are 20-40 millennia old).

Confused logic perhaps?
It‘s only in relatively recent days that we in Australia have taken sexual equality serious. It’s still only a half serious WIP, there are many ways to subjugate others. Bias, bigotry, intolerance, religious none of which are Democratic by definition etc.

It would be a hopelessly bigoted individual who tried to equate Christianity (religion) with Democracy or sexual equality (orientation included). Name the last Catholic/Orthodox, Bishop, Cardinal, Pope or C of E Archbishop (2/3+ of Christians) or major denomination that has a Female head. Did I mention Judaism too? Most modern religions are institutionally patriarchal. Any societal equalization of the Sexes has been at auspices of the Secular Community.
Even modern Muslims respect women. Religious books regardless of religion give poor prismatic viewus of reality, only extremists follow them literally. Think of it like this Salt (belief) is essential to life but too much is fatal (Extremism).

Finally on what Universal (objective basis do Eurocentric Christians base our decisions that their values (pure or other wise are )better than anyone else’s?
Your argument (agenda) boils down to “ Now hear this! MY values are better than every one who’s not Christian ‘cos I believe so ” (perversion of Cartesian logic?) . Value purity ? ( Subjective Arrogant nonsense).

Evidence would suggest that once set we all NEED our Motherhood Life coda. I would also argue that other cultures when left alone are at least as content Western Christians all that changes is complexity. Is it worth it? Eye of the beholder. Solution.. Acceptance (tolerance)of others views less paranoid xenophobia.

Examinator :-

Dear Examinator... it's quite a fertile field isn't it :) this matter of democracy, values, religion and how they all fit together!

R u in Melbourne? you must join Col Rouge and myself on our next get together.. we've had 2 now.. yesterday we enjoyed a 'now it's ur turn for your life story' over a cuppa latte and capuccino. We have fun discussing all the various posters here :) oops.. am I a gossip?
At least over a cuppa we are not limited to post limits and word counts.

We're going to meet up again and have a 'wives included' yum cha.

Regarding the points you raised.

Actually I didn't argue "which is the only religion".
I argued 'values' and pointed out one religion which has values very different from and unnacceptable to, Australian.

Every time I mention 'wife beating' Pericles is like a pit bull on a chihwawa and leaps on me drooling out the words "Yippeeee...I'veee got im.. again" but he should know that his 'but you beat your daughter' argument is getting rather in need of a retread :)

"We the people" = "any/all" people of whatever religious or secular background who share given values and are prepared to stand up for them at the ballot box.

It also comprises those who, while minorities are politically astute enought to recognize 'political opportunity' in marginal seats for advancing values they hold dear. This applies equally to Christians, Buddhists, Sikh's and Muslims.