Hi Forest.. Ok.. interesting information but the last post about the integrity of the secret ballot is getting into rather speculative territory which does not seem to stand up to scrutiny.

If you are suggesting that 'ballot outcomes/boxes are rigged' then please say so.. that we can have something definite to grasp.

The origins of social democratic parties.. now that's a different story, and I don't know much about that field..have not read much, but... I take the obvious point that IF they were begun with Vatican sting pulling behind the scenes..and indirect vatical control by their influence on large numbers of Catholic voters.. well you would need to show some very tangible evidence of this.

In the mean time.. please apply your broad thinking to the 'Some dog owners' thread :