The West with it's zero pop growth has put a lot of emphasis on saving babies that in the past would not have survived.In past generations women would have lost two or three babies before having a single healthy one.Dawn Fraser recently took disabled athletes to China ,only to suffer abuse and ridicule from the local population who do not tolerate genetic aberations.She was so affronted by their attitudes that she decided not to be a part of this Olympics.

We save babies at all costs but don't look down the long term reality of these children being a burden on the social/economic fabric.Currently we have over 700,000 on disability pensions.This is 7% of our working population.

People who come from poor countries that have a reality of survival of the fittest,probably have better genetic material than what we are saving in our humidi-cribs.

I would not wish that Steven Hawking never existed,since his insights have added a lot to our humanity,but can we afford this long term weakness of allowing our inferior genetic offspring to survive at all costs?

If the body be the the vehicle for the soul,shouldn't we be improving the vehicle?

No argument here Arjay.... the only word I would add to the 'immigration' issue is.."controlled" and to quote a 'reverberating voice' from the political wilderness "in our national interest"

Obviously we would not import people who hold ideas which are contrary to our love of freedom.... and that transcends color or race..

The sooner we add a proviso to our UN charter signatory status on any convention which touches on migration or assylum seeking "Except in matters of national interest and security"
...the better off we will be.

cheers

"People who come from poor countries that have a reality of survival of the fittest,probably have better genetic material than what we are saving in our humidi-cribs."

The logic in this thread is lost on me.

China has some 60 million disabled citizens.

http://english.people.com.cn/english/200105/21/eng20010521_70507.html

India is estimated to have 70 million disabled citizens.

In Vietnam, 6% of Vietnamese are disabled which totals some 5 million people.

The majority of these disabilities have been attributed to the use of Agent Orange by the West during the war.

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0401/pjg33.html

http://www.worldenable.net/bangkok2003/papervietnam.htm

Genetic mutations and disabilities in new births are on the increase in Iraq and surrounding areas. These have been attributed to the use of depleted uranium in warfare by the US, endorsed by Australia.

One can expect to see similar results in the Balkans and beyond. It is estimated that DU dust is capable of travelling up to 1000 kilometres.

As a consequence, one can also expect to witness an increase in seemingly healthy poor people giving birth to physically and mentally disabled offspring.

http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/0/e604da0a6d399680c125693b004da86d?Opendocument

http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/VISIE/du-cleanup-iraq.html

Thousands of US and Australian war veterans are now on disability pensions due to exposure to chemicals used in warfare by the West, which has also resulted in birth mutations in the offspring of veterans.

Thanks to the West's propensity to use chemical warfare on other nations, the planet is now seriously contaminated with substances which are affecting the genetic well-being of future generations.

Let's not delude ourselves, that integrating with people from poorer nations, to sustain population growth, will provide Australia with a superior gene pool.

And killing off our disabled would certainly be economically viable, however, it is simply an indication of the West's descent into an ethics-free state of moral bankruptcy.

"Quality immigration is good for our genetic diversity"

This is true provided these new immigrants intermarry with people from other cultures and races here in Australia.

The other scenario is that they will form big tribes that refuse to marry other races. Their are some muslims who actually kill their children if they do marry outside of their clan.

How come you have all this ethnic cleansing all over the world by big groups that have lived together in the same countries for years? Where is the intermarriage and intregration that should have happened in these places.

It's happening again between the different ethnic groups in Georgia at the moment with Russia coming in on the side of the ethnic group closest to them.

You cannot assume automatic intregration.

I do agree with you Arjay on some of the profoundly disabled people I see. I think that they should have been peacefully put to sleep at birth, not because of economic reasons, but out of mercy for the lifetime of suffering that they have to endure. My heart just goes out to some of them when I see them and I think why does society let them suffer like this.

Also anyone of us could become severly disabled at any time because of the continuing road toll, I believe in assisted death there, too, and not life at anyprice.

Dickie China and India have increasing nos of disabled people not because of genetics however because of increasing motor vehicles no OH&S legislation and lack of medical care.Only 400 million Chinese are presently involved in this industrial revolution.900 million have yet to join.
By the way,what happened to you retort in the Prof Flint's article?Where is your explanation of Severinghaus' assertion that CO2 acts like an amplifier?How does it act like an amplifier?

Arjay

You need to have a basic understanding of specific industrial and motor vehicle emissions and their impacts on human health which can result in reproductive, developmental, and behavioral problems.

Endocrine disruptors can increase the occurrence of stillbirths, birth defects and the feminisation of embryos. The effects on the developing nervous system can include impaired mental and psychomotor development, as well as cognitive impairment and behaviour.

Increasing bioaccumulation of industrial and motor vehicle ED emissions is repeated until the concentrations of EDs in the top predators reach levels high enough to cause physical deformities, reductions in fertility, and death. The accumulations in the lipid tissues of those at the top of the food chain can be millions of times higher than the concentration of the original source.

I'm surprised that you appear unaware that even in Australia, genetically altering polychlorinated dibenzo-d-dioxins are rarely regulated or monitored, even if they are listed in the OSH hazardous compound listings. Perhaps that's why you're a sceptic.

China and India's emissions of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons would be vast. These chemicals are blamed for genetic damage and are toxic chemical compounds that attach themselves to microscopic, breathable particles of soot and dust. Some reseachers claim PAHs are among the most genotoxic or gene-damaging urban air pollutants.

The increase in autism cases has been attributed to repeated exposure to small doses of heavy metals and other toxic products.

Mercury accumulates at the top of aquatic and marine food chains and fish is the major source of dietary exposure. The principal health risks associated with mercury are damage to the nervous system, with such symptoms as uncontrollable shaking, muscle wasting, partial blindness but also deformities in children exposed in the womb.

Mercury can damage the foetal and embryonic nervous systems with consequent learning difficulties, poor memory and shortened attention spans.

All these industrial emissions, and more are dumped daily onto soil, crops, water and in air, by the truckloads, particularly in China and India.

Word count has expired. Similar to my long-term endeavours, you will need to conduct your own research on CO2. You're off topic.

HOORAY FOR THE YOUUUU -S- OF AYE... they have cultural testicles :)

KIRPAN.... how does this relate to a thread on 'genetic diversity'?

simple.. along with the GENES.. you also get the 'culture'.

Here is a classic example of how people tend to view the 'other' in terms of their own culture and how they feel the host country/State law should in reality.. reflect their own religous law.

If people feel this way, then clearly they and their community organizations... politicaly lobby groups will be working toward these goals. This would apply equally to Sikhs, Hindu's, Jews and Muslims.... shock horror.. perhaps even 'Christians' :)

http://www.worldsikhnews.com/9%20July%202008/US%20Sikh%20arrested%20his%20kirpan,%20turban%20forcibly%20removed.htm

Sikh man arrested, fingerprinted, charged "Carrying a dangerous weapon"... at last. It's wayyyy past time that Sikhs realized their religous law is subject the law of the land.

As if this thread wasn't getting bizarre enough.

<< simple.. along with the GENES.. you also get the 'culture'. >>

That's right - culture is transmitted genetically. Has anybody ever told you you're nuts, Boazy?

CJ Morgan,I don't see how culture can be transmitted genetically.Intelligence may be transferred to future generations but experience is not.Each of us must learn the reality of survival and children often ignore the the wisdom of their parents.This is where evolution is flawed,since wisdom is not passed on genetically.

Basically we humans seem destined to repeat the mistakes of past generations.

Glad to hear it, Arjay.

Actually, I think your general point in your first post in this thread is valid: i.e. that the diversification of the Australian human gene pool via immigration is ultimately adaptive, in a biological sense.

Of course, that's not all you meant.

Also, I have to say the diversion into alleged environmentally caused genetic disabilities among third world migrants is quite bizarre.

"Also, I have to say the diversion into alleged environmentally caused genetic disabilities among third world migrants is quite bizarre."

I'm not sure what you meant by "bizarre" CJ Morgan? Are you referring to the "diversion" or the "disabilities?"

Arjay was suggesting that superior "genetic material" could be sourced from poor countries to solve our zero growth population.

One need only look at the bioaccumulative genetic legacies inherited by the Vietnamese whose parents or grandparents were exposed to Agent Orange (dioxin) to understand the toxicity of environmental hazards.

We should not just confine the potential health impacts of environmental industrial toxins to third world countries either. The reluctance of governments to fund research on the hazardous effects of unmitigated, industrial emissions over communities and beyond, needs to be addressed, not obfuscated as is the culture in Australia's departments of health and environment. This could assist in reducing the numbers of disabled people in this country to whom Arjay refers:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23700909-30417,00.html

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1031002582.html

http://www.ehinitiative.org/About/ehi.htm

http://www.iceh.org/LDDI.html

Like I said, bizarre.