The above line is from one of my favourite films, ‘Cool Hand Luke’. I have already ‘outed’ myself as a nerd, and now I confess that I am a bit of a movie buff, with a preference for film noir. And no-one has presented miscommunication as effectively as Paul Newman’s character in that seminal film.

One of the biggest problems facing the inveterate OLOer is getting our meaning across to others. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail. I am as guilty as any when it comes to misreading or misunderstanding another’s post.

Also, irony is difficult even in conversation and it becomes even more of a challenge when in written form. Also we are often forced to use capitals when trying to place emphasis, which means that the post can appear ‘LOUD’.

Please OLO editors facilitate communication and provide the tools we need. The technology is out there.

Gentle OLOer, if you would like a more sophisticated editing system for your posts, please put forward your agreement here.

And if not: why not?

Cheers m’dears

Fractelle says:

"I am as guilty as any when it comes to misreading or misunderstanding another’s post."

wow.. you got that right :)

blessings.

Yes Fractelle. I very strongly support this.

I can’t see why we OLOers shouldn’t have access to all the facilities available in Word, such as bold, italic, underline, different font sizes, types and colours….. as well as a wide variety of emoticons.

As well as improving our ability to get the message across, it would brighten up the forum no end.

Fractelle,

Without meaning to be combatatively argumentative, with respect to the topic title, I have to say "no we don't".

That's exactly it. There is no facility on OLO for users, as opposed to lurkers or readers, to conduct a poll. Yet such capability is not at all unusual on other fora. That's not to say we must or should have such capability, but that such has now become notable by its absence.

I guess the point is that with a user-initiable poll, the all important aspect as to 'what is the question?' is in the hands of the user, rather than dispersed amongst forum administration, sponsors, article contributors, or 'dorothy dixers'.

OLO may well be able to turn this deficit into a 'surplus'. The software capability to provide this clearly exists. There are probably even freeware or open source programs available with which to do it, should OLO not wish to write its own software or incur a licencing liability. The seemingly big attraction is that it is user INTERACTIVE, and I suspect that the prospect of interactivity would raise forum participation levels.

This would be especially so if readers or lurkers could be easily enabled to vote in such polls. It may well provide the necessary incentive to turn a lurker into a user, and in the process raising the value of the opinionate represented or enabled by OLO. I believe it is possible to arrange that any particular reader or user can only successfully lodge one vote in any such poll, thereby guarding against hobby horsers or malicious posters skewing results.

Anyway, full marks for effectively keeping much of the subject of the previous thread "Suggestions for OLO" up on the default screens for another month.

OLO may even be able to turn this into a subscription-attracting idea. People become addicted to interactive opinionating. You could arrange it so that unless a certain number of posts and/or votes are lodged over a certain time, that money has to be paid to reactivate voting privileges.

More activity, more money, or both.

On the other hand polycarp, your passive-aggressive jibes are clear for all to see, though I suppose it's easy to be misunderstood when you redefine identities and attempt to conceal your motives via side-topics you can steer towards your prejudices.

That may have sounded blunt, but I didn't want to you to 'misread' it. Blessings to you too.

But to get to the subject... I rather like the communications here - I'm not a big fan of emoticons or smilies, and I'm glad they're not in posts here, I think they detract from the seriousness of the subject matter. Ultimately, all we have are the words on a page, and whilst I sometimes feel a degree of frustration when a 'failure to communicate' does occur, I tend to think that makes me think harder next time. I really can't think of anything that could be introduced to further facilitate communication - ultimately, barriers to communication can exist at all levels be it spoken, body language or text. Ultimately, all we can do to improve communication is practice, and as we know more about the communication styles and preferences of each individual, we'll understand them better.

... Unless you've developed some kind of telepathic mind-connection technology, in which case things may speed up, but alas, I fear we're not quite there yet.

I agree, with every word of our authors post.
But I will still seem to say things I did not want to.
Still wish I could explain I did not want to shout.
Other sites long gone had all the asked for things even polling.
And yes it was good but some how the written word in my hands at times fails to explain just what I am on about.

Many thanks to Ludwig, Forrest and TRTL for your thoughtful replies.

FG

Disagree - I regularly fail to communicate with certain posters - although they do tend to be the same ones - is this indicative of a deliberate failure to communicate? Surely not...

I am aware on other fora there is facility for a mini poll - is there sufficient need for one here?

Ludwig

Am in agreement with need for very basic editing tools, bold, italics, etc - nothing too sophisticated.

TRTL

agree emoticoms tend to be over used.

Better facilities for quoting others' posts would be good.

Cheers

Belly

Your post came in just as I posted mine.

Effective communication is a challenge for everyone, even the most succinct of us. I suggest you check some of your earlier posts - you will be pleasantly surprised to see just how much your writing has improved.

I know I feel great satisfaction when I have assembled a well researched and clear post. Even if the reader chooses to dismiss whatever point I have made, I KNOW when it is worthy.

So Belly do you think that more editing tools would be of benefit to you or not?

I should point out that a demon that has afflicted OLO has been cast out. The 'New Discussion' dialog now accepts quotation marks in a proposed topic title. The observation is courtesy of RobP in the 102nd post to the 'Suggestions for OLO' thread, an older testament to the relevance of what is coming out here. See: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1954#42829

Ludwig: "I can’t see why we OLOers shouldn’t have access to all the facilities available in Word"

What is this 'Word' of which you speak? I gather it is something that must have been around since forever. I compose my posts in Gedit, then paste into the posting panel. I trust I am not missing anything?

TRTL: "Ultimately, all we have are the words on a page, .......I tend to think that makes me think harder."

Indeed and agreed. Without adding to or taking away anything from what Ludwig has proposed, in actual written expression I strongly suspect that less can be more. If we can get these facilities, it would be wise not to overdo it in the actual use thereof.

Momentarily off-topic, but my wife accuses me of being passive-aggressive sometimes. To be blunt, I reckon she's dead wrong. There's plenty of passion; it's just that I'm not into bashing women, except perhaps occasionally litero-verbally. BTW, and at the possible risk of getting into Fractelle's Black Books, might I point out that it appears that, at least embryonically, telepathic mind connection technology may be just around the corner. Apparently it arises as a consequence of chaos theory, something beyond my comprehension. Ask her about it. She seems fairly forgiving.

May the cool hand of Luke rest upon all who post here. Have phun.

PS It still seems, with respect to typos in discussion topic titles, that what has been written has been written. I am of the opinion that an ability to make correcting edits to titles, as distinct from textual alterations thereto, is important in maintaining overall OLO credibility.

Fractelle, whilst I've often wished for some more options I'm often grateful that they are not available to some.

Some posters writings are hard enough to read without the addition of multiple fonts, colours etc. Italics would be nice for quoted content and the ability to reference links without having the whole link shown on screen (cutting down clutter).

I guess you won't be to concerned about David's comprehension difficulties, it does not really matter how clear you are he will take the message he wants and ignore the rest (he seems to have the same problem when it comes to the bible).

My impression is that there have been a higher rate than usual of miscommunications recently - something to do with the weather. Or maybe I'm just noticing them more after my stuff up with Pelican.

Cheers
R0bert

Well Forrest Gumpp, I haven't seen any passive-aggressiveness in your posts here.

I tend to think of passive aggressive displays as those which are designed to get someone's back up, but also designed to try and avoid being able to be called out on it.
Sort of like jumping out from behind a tree to shout abuse and hurl a stone, then jumping back behind it before they can respond.

I do concur with the titles and I'm glad the quotation marks can now be used - though I'd argue that goes part and parcel with standard grammar. As for font... I admit, I'd like italics so I could emphasize certain words without resorting to CAPITALS which comes across as shouting. I suppose the *asterisks* are still an option, but I prefer to reserve those for sarcasm instead of emphasis.

Fractelle: "Effective communication is a challenge for everyone, even the most succinct of us. I suggest you check some of your earlier posts - you [ie. Belly] will be pleasantly surprised to see just how much your writing has improved."

And here was I thinking it was just me getting used to Belly's posts! Could't agree more, Fractelle. Well posted.

Regarding succintity (and spelling for that matter), I've always thought that this epitaph from the old Wild West (probably Tombstone, Arizona) encapsulates it all:

"Here lies the body of Lester Moore.
Four shots from a 'forty four'.
No les,
No more."

Making another pass on the topic, might not the use of a not too intrusive background colour be a better way of identifying a quote originating from some other post within the Forum? That can both make quotes clearly identifiable as such, and leave italics for some other purpose. For example, in this very post, Fractelle's words would be set against the quote background colour because they have originated from within the Forum. The stuff about Lester Moore could be in italics, as it is a quote, but one not from within the Forum.

RObert foresees a scenario in which text formatting facilities may be overused by some in making points or pushing wheelbarrows. Let but such formato-chromo browbeating be accompanied by the slightest breach of Forum rules, and these sought-for posting facilities could be progressively withdrawn from such offending users. Like Dreyfuss, offenders could be progressively stripped of their privileges, having if necessary their literary swords eventually publicly broken and being reduced to the indignity of plain text. "Every problem contains within itself the seeds of its own solution" - the emperor Nasi Goreng; said upon completion of the Great Wall and the expulsion of the rabbits from China.

I, too, KNOW when I have assembled a well researched and clear post; a wise post, a learned post, indeed a WORTHY post. What happens if we each make one such in the same thread contradicting the other? Cry havoc and let slip the dogs?

FG

Removal of entitlements if posters misbehave, appeals to my inner 'Madame Lash'.

Use of colour background for inhouse quotes - excellent.

"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs?"

30 paces at dawn my good man.

Yes to italics and discussion title editing, for all the reasons cited by other OLOers.

No to changeable text font, size and colour, and definitely no emoticons. Just look at a Polyboaz post written with only ASCII available. Can you imagine what it'd be like with animated smilies and customised text? I have an epileptic fit just thinking about it.

Speaking of which, and regarding the discussion topic, nothing undermines communication like posters posting under new and/or multiple pseudonyms. I wish the site would crack down on it.

yeah but if you wanted to get your point across why not just yell it out in bold....works for me in real life.... he he he but I find that if you want someone to know your a little pissed off then sarcasism really works well as a carrying medium.

now is that a gun slinging match I hear comming on? Im getting on ebay to buy front row seats now

Forrest, "Let but such formato-chromo browbeating be accompanied by the slightest breach of Forum rules, and these sought-for posting facilities could be progressively withdrawn from such offending users. Like Dreyfuss, offenders could be progressively stripped of their privileges, having if necessary their literary swords eventually publicly broken and being reduced to the indignity of plain text."

While I'd be keen to nominate some posters who should have reduced privileges implementing such an approach would require a substantial shift in editorial tactics. I'm very fond of the mostly hands off approach taken by our editors. I appreciate that when Graham or Susan post here they do so under the same rules are those who openly criticise their policies. No special priviliges for old timers such as you and I, the newby who joins today gets the same priviliges and will generally maintain them unless there is a very clear breach of rules.

Some may see bias in the choice of articles posted or which general discussions are allowed but it would be hard to put a case that individual posters are treated differently based on their interactions with the editors.

I expect perceptions would be quite different if the editors were regularly making judgment calls about the taste choices of posters with consequences to follow.

R0bert

"I can’t see why we OLOers shouldn’t have access to all the facilities available in Word, such as bold, italic, underline, different font sizes, types and colours..."

Ludwig,

Don't forget the spell checjker!

Great thread, Fractelle.

Yes a spell checker would come in handy, Rob.

I also agree with a previous poster that the very basic editing tools, bold, italics, etc - would aid communication.

No emoticons puhlease, they're always in your face.

What I would like, but is not essential, is a small avatar- no doubles, so that I'd be able to instantly recognise my favourite posters and avoid others.

I'd also want to second what RObert said, "the ability to reference links without having the whole link shown on screen (cutting down clutter)."

I actually wrote to GYoung a couple of weeks ago to suggest this.
I sometimes use TinyURL to shorten links, but can't always be bothered.

I'm happy with the current format, and agree with TRTL that it is the text itself that should do the talking. To me, the enduring challenge on OLO is to read the text carefully and to interpret it accurately. I do agree though that Italics or Bold would be useful for emphasis. But, please, no colour, pictures or emoticons!

I am wondering if it is possible that the available editing software is only available in a "all bells and whistles" format.

Maybe a minimalist editor is simply not 'out there' for easy installation.

I regard the current OLO situation as being so basic as to be less than minimalist and bordering on stingy.

However, I am prepared to stay with the status quo, because I do agree that Boazycarp allowed free reign with emoticons would not only be a sin but a crime against humanity.

Dear Fractelle,

I too would like to have access to things
that are available to me on "Word."

Whether it would help with my ability to
communicate however, I'm not so sure.

I find that I have to really think about
the subject of a thread before jumping in
and replying, and even so, I often don't
get it right.

What I really dislike though, is vitriolic
personal attacks. I feel that they should not
be allowed in a Forum that deals with social
and political issues.

It lowers the standard, brings out the worst
in people, and hurts.

I don't know if technology could help in this
matter. It would be great if it could.

Foxy

I know which thread to which you are referring. Your comments were apt and warranted. I am not going to give it more attention than it deserves, however, I think this is clearly a case where OLO should be 'hands on' as it has degenerated into one of the worst threads I have witnessed on OLO.

The type of software to monitor posts that are little more than scathing personal attacks would have to be 'intelligent' and I don't think we are quite there yet with self-learning software, besides I really prefer the human touch even if it does belong to Graham. He would probably still be a favourable choice to a computer program, although... no, I'm not going there...

Cheers

In my view the discipline imposed by the lack of "features" here is in itself a positive.

Spelling errors are themselves a means of communication.

I myself have been known to misplace the odd apostrophe on occasion, which (I hope) adds a little character to an otherwise dry presentation.

But seriously, the effort needed to make a salient point without resorting to bold, italics or emoticons forces an extra, valuable few moments of thought.

I shudder to think how the quality of posts might deteriorate if these facilities were provided - just take a look at the contents of the average blog that allows them.

It's like putting on a baseball cap, backwards. Instant loss of thirty IQ points.

All salient points, Pericles - especially the baseball cap.

The only issue I really have is when I have quoted directly from a source, provided the source and the quote is taken as if I had written it myself. Other posters are confused by research I have done with yours truly.

I would probably settle with the current format rather than anything that is likely to abused/misused by the over zealous.

Forrest, I am referring to Microsoft Word.

RobP, I use the Word spell and grammar checker for every opst. Doesn't everynoe (:>|

Trouble is they is far less than perfect and let though a lot of errors...the little buggers!

I guess not everyone has access to a spellchecker. So yes, if OLO could provide one, or point posters in the right diection, twould be good.

Below is a summary, using the briefest possible descriptions, of features of or for OLO that have so far been mentioned by posters to this thread, but as yet listed in no particular order.

Can I suggest, Fractelle, that posters and other interested OLO users be invited to copy the list into their text editor, and re-order it from the most to the least desired, feature by feature, then paste the re-ordered list back into the post pane for posting back to this thread. That way, in spite of what may be considered the possible limitations of the site, we could have an online opinion poll of sorts.

Its your thread Fractelle, so feel free to correct me - no, no, STOP! I'll rephrase that. Feel free to modify my list in any way before you post the authentic poll starting list over your own sig - I wouldn't want to be seen to be trying to hijack your thread. Equally, feel free not to post it at all if you think this a bad or premature idea: I will not be offended (much).

It might also be helpful to summarize the features mentioned in the thread that has now dropped off the default radar, 'Suggestions for OLO' (See: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1954&page=0 ) There will obviously be some overlap. rstuart should have first bite at that cherry, since it was his topic, but if he hasn't the time, and you don't either, I would be prepared to draft one up.

The Summary (to [un]numbered post 26)

Standard sized font

Variable sized font

Bold

Italic

Different fonts

Coloured text options

Smileys (graphical emoticons)

OP designed mini-polls

Spelling and punctuation correction edit facility for topic titles

Reduced size links

Asterisks confined to expressing sarcasm

Non-intrusive but distinct background colour for intra-Forum quotes

Unique user avatars

A spell checker that does not remember the Alamo

Progressive removal of text enhancement privileges for infractions (shudder)

OT, Ludwig,

Use of 'facilities' in post #3. How brave! Mine in #4, foolhardy!

FG

Feel free to do as you suggested - I do not consider it a hi-jack at all, but rather a positive, considered contribution.

That is all I have ever required.

'I myself have been known to misplace the odd apostrophe on occasion, which (I hope) adds a little character to an otherwise dry presentation.'

Man OLO gives me some laughs. I'd be tempted to believe that... na.. surely not.. Actually... It fits for OLO.

Lets leave OLO as a place where people can further their written communication skills using words rather than relying on presentation.

I'm sure dear Fractelle would dearly love to add sparkles to her latest project, though she doesn't really need that smiley stamp reward, as she knows when she's done a 'worthy' post apparently.

Forrest had become sick of the constant tension on the leashes. He had only agreed to mind the dogs of his neighbours, the Waughs, because at the last minute their plans to have someone come in to do it over their holidays had backfired. "Havoc" he had thought he heard someone cry, and in a moment's absence of mind he had let them slip.

Forrest knew right then there was going to be trouble.

Forrest had already noted that the technical 'causus belli' had been crafted by Fractelle right from the start: "Disagree - ", she had written in her second post, the seventh in the thread. Before Forrest had even raised the issue of mutually accepted incompatibility of post perfection in the twelfth post in the thread! Dayyum! Seen him coming!

Fractelle had, however, made three mistakes.

First, she had issued the challenge! 30 paces at dawn. That gave Forrest the choice of venue and weapons. So Fractelle's Dad didn't like guns! Neither did Forrest (guns needed cleaning) , and particularly not the Smith & Wesson .38 Service revolver, which he had chosen for this confrontation.

Second, she had presumed that Forrest would not have noticed the challenge, the contradiction, already standing in the thread. That gave Forrest the initiative: he could call it on when he liked.

Third, she had accused Forrest of "not contributing much, BTW" on another thread! Indeed!

SATISFACTION TIME!

Forrest wondered if she had any idea: thirty regulation 30 inch paces each, overseen by their seconds, even allowing for a little shortening of step, whether on account of age, or stature, would see them facing off at around 44 metres apart. Most could not get one round out of six on a man-sized target at 25 metres. At 44 metres it was going to be more than four times as difficult.

"not contributing much". Really!

Why were people so unkind? Forrest was utterly unable to donate the hindquarters of a rodent.

And where better to get satisfaction than on her own thread? The results would be on screen for weeks.

Yair, bring it on!

Forest

I think you should put your talents into writing a book. You certainly wouldn't have any problem finding the words!

Dawn light on the High Veldt had that absolutely aching clarity that was typical of afternoon light in Australia.

Good light for old eyes to see clearly.

Fractelle's second's last minute advice had been to aim for the centre of the seen mass. "Yair, you do that Fractelle" Forrest muttered under his breath.

Only two rounds had been placed in each weapon by the seconds. The chambers had then been spun as in Russian roulette, snapped into position, and the hammers eased. The seconds had then exchanged weapons, and handed them to the duelists. So your first shot could well be a dud: there were two chances in three in fact that it would be a dud. An uncertainty factor. A la Heisenberg. Approaching more nearly chaos in a duelling context. He he, likely providing time for thought between shots. Maybe even time for a longgggg black coffee in the restaraunt at the end of the universe!

One, ... Two, ... Three ... The seconds called the paces in unison.

Inside Forrest's head the halting, rolling, then soaring majestic cadences of the slow march 'Herzog von Braunschwieg' accompanied the calls, relegating them to near inaudibility, as he and Fractelle paced out the prescribed distance.

In circumstances like this, time always slowed to a crawl.

Forrest did not plan on doing a full about face: he preferred the one-handed side-on position with the pistol. Greater accuracy, not to mention presenting a slightly smaller target. Also marginally more quickly adopted than a fully facing stance. Not that Forrest was really concerned about speed, but if one did have the luck to have a live round under the hammer first up, then it just gave you that little edge.

Forrest was absolutely determined to rest between shots no matter what. Arm right down by the side, exhaling slowly.

27, ... Thumb back the hammer....

29, ... 30! Forrest snapped into the right turn, head swivelling smoothly into the 'eyes right' position, right arm floating up fully extended, sights locking onto the centre of the seen mass, finger contracting like a python's coil.

I am not sure that additional options would make a difference to the meaning of the words on the page (screen).

The most difficult thing about a forum is that everyone has a different way of expressing themsleves and may give offence without intending. It is different to debating with a person face to face where body language and facial expressions add to the intent and meaning of your words. I don't think that this can ever be mirrored on a forum and the words have to speak for themselves.

No amount of bolding or italics would change this I think but I admit I am not a forum aficionado so I could stand to be corrected.

One can only hope that others will be respectful but there are never any guarantees only that we are always responsible for our own behaviour and words.

Forrest

Am I right in assuming that last post of yours was Chapter One?

The two opening sentences were full of promise, but unfortunately the rest was totally lost on me I'm afraid. Obviously, I've missed some vital piece of communication between yourself and Fractelle somewhere along the way!

One more question - Is it going to be a long book?

The door opens slightly and Romany sidles into the room. She is both unsure if anyone has even noticed she's been gone and, at the same time, is equally unsure of her reception after such a long absence.

She slithers up to Bronwyn and whispers "Hi. What's been happening?"
Bronwyn replies with a rather abstracted: "Buggered if I know, really.I think someone's gunning for Fractelle."
With a gasp of horror Romany wriggles over to Fractelle "So..wassup, girl?"
From across the room CJ looks up from his book and yells out "Hey, Romany. Have you been away or something? A few changes round here. BD finally flipped his wig. Thinks he's some guy called Polycarp these days. Lost his memory too. Keeps posting the same things he used to post as BD. Gotta humour the poor ole sod, though."
Romany looks dismayed "You mean we have to recycle all that stuff about Muslim Chapels in Universities and polygamy and 9 year old girls?"
Fractelle nods dully. "Oh god, Romany, its terrible. I keep thinking I'm caught in a time warp."
Roberts saunters over and slaps Romany on the shoulder. She stumbles a little and gives him a shy smile. "Not to worry though." he says "We've got some new posters banging on about feminism and marriage and stuff so now we just redirect them to all the old discussions. Saves a lot of time."
Fractelle nods dully.She looks out of the window to where an armed stranger is pacing the dust, checking his safety catch and talking a language neither of them understands.
"But the biggest change of all..." she falters, and then looks at Romany with tragic eyes:"...is that this forum has turned into a short fiction piece.....and we're all trapped!"

If everything went the way Forrest intended, and he was lucky enough to have a round under the hammer first up, he would give Fractelle a right royal scare: personal experience of the crackBANG about three feet from her left ear! Forrest wasn't so worried about hearing the same himself; he'd heard it all before, and in any case was already partially deaf in the left ear from small arms fire.

There would be plenty of opportunity for Fractelle to call a halt to this madness, especially if she had the bad luck, as it was odds-on she would, to have an empty chamber under the hammer first up.

But, live round or dud, on whoever's part, Forrest wasn't calling it off! Fractelle needed to be taught a lesson! Forrest still had no rodent hindquarters to donate.

Before his own hammer fell, Forrest heard the distant 'click' as Fractelle had her first bad luck.

Click! Bugger.

As Forrest's arm descended and he exhaled, Fractelle fired again without resting between shots.

crackBANG! High and to Forrest's left. "Just as I thought" muttered Forrest.

As Forrest's arm was floating back up, Fractelle transferred the weapon to her left hand. "Bloody ambidextrous as well as imperious, eh"

Just as Forrest's revolver soundlessly discharged he felt a knock on his right boot, then heard the BANG. As his arm was going back down he looked at his foot. Fractelle's bullet had struck the steel toe-cap and torn a chunk out of the sole. It had also, in that instant, moved his foot, and thus his aiming point, ever so slightly.

"That's it then" thought Forrest, "she's out, and I've still got one round left". Forrest was really going to make Fractelle sweat now! Slowly, lazily, Forrest lowered his weapon. Even more slowly and lazily his arm floated back up. "Now to deafen the other ear, if she doesn't fold first", thought Forrest.

Fractelle was just standing there, motionless.

Before Forrest could fire, Fractelle folded.

Strangely: sidewards, at the waist.

Romany

Great to have you back! You've been back five minutes and you've got us sorted already!

Perhaps you can interpret Forrest for me! We've had Chapter Two now and I'm still none the wiser. Though I must admit I'm getting sucked in, despite my better judgement!

Forrest

You're going to have to introduce some more characters. We can't have Fractelle hogging all the limelight!

Welcome back, Romany! I had noticed your absence. Now that you've finished organising the Olympics, can we expect to see more of you?

<< BD finally flipped his wig. Thinks he's some guy called Polycarp these days. Lost his memory too. Keeps posting the same things he used to post as BD. Gotta humour the poor ole sod, though."
Romany looks dismayed "You mean we have to recycle all that stuff about Muslim Chapels in Universities and polygamy and 9 year old girls?" >>

Not sure about "we", but apparently the born-again old nutter feels the need to revisit all his old hateful obsessions under his new identity. Apparently he's now openly modelling himself on Oswald Mosely, Enoch Powell and Pauline Hanson - but about the only person he's fooling is himself.

At least we're not getting quite so much rabid bible-bashing these days, which is certainly a blessing.

Bronwyn

Your guess is as good as mine regarding Gumpp, but he does seem very happy, best not to disturb.

Romany

Consider yourself swept up in big hug; your clarity and cogent form has been missing from these pages. Yes you have analyzed the OLO soap opera with your unmatched perception.

Nothing has really changed - even BD/PC. You know, the more things change, the more they remain the same...

Much love.

"Mektoub" said Forrest softly, then fired his remaining bullet into the ground.

The seconds rushed to where Fractelle lay, folded, on the grass: Romany, to do what she could for Fractelle; Ludwig, to retrieve the Smith & Wesson.

Forrest's bullet had struck Fractelle's shoulder, severing the left subclavian artery in its transit. She was going downhill about as fast as old Oetzi, 'the Iceman', had about 5,000 years ago, high up in the Italian Alps in that corrie where he had been ambushed.

Forrest hadn't intended exactly this. Walking up to where Fractelle was being worked on by the two seconds, Forrest didn't know what to say, but he said it anyway: "Well, Fractelle, you really shot yourself in my foot there, didn't you?" Fractelle briefly smiled weakly. Romany asked sharply "Is that your, ah, sole contribution here Forrest? If so, please stay out of my way!"

Forrest stood back.

Deep down, Forrest knew he had helped save the world. ChristinaMac would be sure to appreciate it before anyone else. Others would come around in due course. Forrest knew a secret boast when he saw one! And Fractelle had made one here: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2044#42571 ! "qantum physics" indeed! This was no accidental spelling error. Forrest understood it for what it really was right off: "Queensland and Northern Territory Uranium Mining physics"! Fractelle had been a traitor, a secret sell-out to global corporatisation!

Idly, Forrest wondered what Fractelle's weapons of choice would have been, had he been so unwise as to lay down the challenge. He knew she did't like guns. Suddenly, he felt just the slightest regret.

Footnotes for Bronwyn et al: the missing links

Re "not contributing much" http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2066#43131 and http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2066#43202

Fractelle's background reading? http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2040#42525 and http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1800#35722

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2070#43029

Romany turned from Fractelle's prone and bleeding body to gaze after Forrest's retreating back with narrowed eyes - which immediately began to water. (Dammit! She'd have to stop plaiting her hair so tightly.) Conspiracy theories? Plots? All those obfuscatory references? Every hair on her chest stood up. She, and she alone, it appeared, knew what his real agenda was.

"Ah...just a minute there, Mr. Gump." She said quietly, the spiked collar she wore momentarily compressing her larynx.

Gump stopped but did not turn round.

"So. You thought no-one had noticed, hmmm?" She eased herself upright on thighs that had been magnificently toned by a thousand foreign squatty potties."Well, Mr. Gump. - Or whatever you call yourself." Her mouth twisted in an unpleasant grin -which always happened when her corns were playing up:
" J'accuse!!" (Oh hell. Had she spelt that right? Bloody foreign quotes. Why couldn't those French devils learn to speak English like everyone else?)
"Thought you could leave just like that, did you? The Alpha male stalking away from the crumpled body of repressed femininity? Thought you'd get away with giving Ludwig the role of gun-snatcher while I was to represent The Nurturing Woman? Yet another instance of the chauvinist, patriachal Master leaving the running-dog, capitalist lackey..." (ah damn! she'd mixed her conspiracy theories with her gender wars. Ah well, yet another sign that she was back in the fraught and dangerous OLO battleground).
She recovered with a flick of her blood red cape (which matched beautifully with the cheeky little pair of lace knickers she wore on the outside of her Army pants)
"Well, Mr Gump, " she cried......."Take this!!"

(To be Continued....)

(Continued......)

And, throwing her head back she began to sing in a powerful bass voice that Helen Reddy would have envied "I am woman, hear me roar.."

A number of things happened at once.

Ludwig ceased crooning over his Smith and Wesson and began to look at her with new eyes (well, they were new contacts, actually, but until that minute they'd been irritating the hell out of him); Fractelle rose shakily to her feet and began to join in; Bronwyn -temporarily tone-deaf from the gun shot- added her voice; and CJ embarked upon an obscene drinking song from his undergraduate past.

And Gump? The mighty, victorious Gump?

He dropped to the ground as one pole-axed, and lay writhing in the dust, hands clapped to ears. Finally, as the three women embarked upon the second verse and Cj warbled a piece of advice for the Mayor of Bayswater which related to the length of that worthy person's daughter's pubic hair, Gump shrieked in agony:

"Stop it! You're right. You have unmasked me. Stop it! I give in"

A silence fell. Romany clasped Fractelle and Bronwyns hands and raised them to the sky.

"Thus die all traitors" they cried.

Fortunately CJ was more on the ball and shook his head. Thus signalled they cried once more:

"Na-na-nana-na. We Win!"

And so, indeed, they did.

........The End.......
Hi guys, goodaseeya. And yeah, back in China. After many adventures.

Romany, welcome back. Sorry about my welcome back embrace going so badly astray, must have had more to drink than I thought. It was intended to be a polite hug of a respected friend, not a wild slap on the shoulder.

The 9 year olds are last years news, the most recent thread opened on that general topic featured 8 year old girls. As he gets older the girls get younger. Pretty much everything else is the same although one of the recent threads is a touch confusing. The whole in the argument when applied to his own faith is even more obvious than usual.

Cheers
R0bert

Forrest

Thanks for the links. Still not entirely the wiser but happy to remain that way. Happy also to see the end of your story.

Naturally, I much preferred Romany's version of events!

Well done the pair of you. I was about to say 'Your talents are obviously wasted on OLO', but on second thoughts I think it might be just the vehicle for you.

Just don't over-indulge now will you Forrest!

Epilogue to a Duel

Forrest was amazed by Fractelle's fortuitously rapid recovery from her severed subclavian.

He understood the symbolism of Romany's spiked collar: the way she had risen to avenge Fractelle left little doubt about that; after all, the dogs of Waugh each had one similar and everyone knew how they behaved. Romany was nothing if not dogged. He didn't visualize Bronwyn having one, though. She seemed less, well .... feral.

Romany's blood red cape was impressive, Forrest granted. The red frilly knickers over the Army pants beat Forrest, however. They'd have to be very form-fitting Army pants for that combination to distract and mesmerize - not like any Army pants Forrest had ever seen! Must be a Chinese thing. With a Chinese meaning. Perhaps Foxy's post explains it best: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2069#43048

Seajaye, Lord Dymo, Thread Labeller in Chief of OLO, after the exertions of his exhortations of Bronwyn, Fractelle, and Romany to indulge in feminazi triumphalism, had nodded off. Perhaps that was just as well. How would he be able to label this thread?

Memories of an old serialized Two Ronnies skit came to Forrest's mind. The Ronnies, held in oppressive domestic servitude under the feminazi regime that had come to power en Angleterre, dreamed and plotted escape. (Forrest could almost hear the echo's of the high-heeled quick stepping curfew patrols passing the empty pubs in the emasculated empty streets, see the toned thighs all moving in irresistible unison. Shudder!)

The day had come.

Escape!

Over the Border!

Into WALES!

Forrest realized it was only a dream. There was no Wales. There was to be no escape for him. He only hoped Ludwig had got away unnoticed without having been administered a couple of field radial keratotomies from Romany smashing his contact lenses.

With heavy heart, Forrest recognised that he had better get back to meeting Fractelle's requirements, or he would be held guilty of a thread hijack.

One thing puzzled him, though. How did Emile Zola get dragged into this?

WOW!

Romany and Forrest.

I doffs me cap to ye both; a sumptuous metaphorical cap.

FG, feel on one hand that I should've joined the game (but it was YOUR game, your rules and I was already feeling very stalked with malicious intent by The Usual Suspect).

Did I feel my thread had been hijacked? A little, but so well written and full of intrigue and humour.

Therefore, I have learned a thing or two; lighten up and trust a little more.

Romany, with your imagination and talent, I know that your courage and the support of Bronwyn and CJ (when he finishes with that hogshead) we can walk and stumble, proud and tall, into the blood red future.

Cheers.

Returning to Article 1 of the Memorandum ..............

This is my re-ordered list in accordance with Fractelle's approval given for this poll. The order is from most desired at the top of the list to least desired toward the bottom. Just copy and paste from this into your text editor or word processor, re-ordering in accord with your own preferences as you desire. Then click 'new post' in this thread, copying from your text editor into the posting pane. Then submit. Don't just read, then nod or shake your head. VOTE! That might make the OLO editoriate a little more interested.

The numbers given at the start of each line is a reference to the post(s) in which the feature was mentioned, if you want context in relation to suggestions.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

9. 11. 14. Spelling and punctuation correction edit facility for topic titles

7. 10?. 12. 14? Non-intrusive but distinct background colour for intra-Forum quotes

3. 7. 19. Bold

7. Standard sized font

3. 7. 10. 14. 19. Italic (confined to non-Forum quotes)

11. Asterisks confined to expressing sarcasm

12. 13. 16. Progressive removal of text enhancement privileges for infractions

4. OP designed mini-polls

3. 14. Coloured text options

10. 18. Reduced size links

3. 14. Variable sized font

18. Unique user avatars

17. A spell checker that does not remember the Alamo

3. 5. 14. Smileys (graphical emoticons)

3. 14. Different fonts

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Don't ask!

Do not ask!

They weren't like that in the text editor. Nor did they appear in the preview pane. The XXs extended in unbroken files and plunged to oblivion off the flat page of the OLO earth, like so many unbaptised proto-catholic lemmings, intent only upon the future they might not have . Why?, why?, why?, Forrest wondered.

The problem was you didn't get very much technical support, down here on the Technical Support threads.

Forrest knew X was the unknown quantity, but surely that didn't mean that the collegiate wisdom of Computerdom knew nothing of how XXs behaved? Why, and more importantly, how, did this seemingly shorter line of XXs in Gedit extend itself so seemingly infinitely? Forrest didn't get it. Neither the Holy Wisdom of Number nor the technical support. Heaven forbid, there was only one number involved (zero being a mere place-holder), but even if one believed the heretics and pretended that there were two, it shouldn't be that hard to formulate a theory that accounted for the behaviour of One, even if and when it was represented that that quantity was unknown!

Forrest wished R0bert was on the thread. R0bert seemed to display a knowledge of the behaviour of XXs, even if he was not a mathematician. You could get more calm common sense from him. No pretensions, unlike mathematicians. "Mathematics" - even the name was pretentious. After all, there really was only one number to be studied, Unum. Why did they put an 's' on the end of the word? So utterly pretentious and duum! And some even had the hide to call it a "science"!

It was mainly from other posters that Forrest had garnered his knowledge. Like that absolute gem of hidden truth that he had got from Ludwig only the other day. He had learned the full name of that program for cyberspatial life commonly referred to as 'Word': it was Microsoft Word!

Forrest compiled in his mind the post he would make to the Ubuntu Forums about this discovery.

R0bert watched quietly from the sidelines as Forest was unindated by XX's. Possibly glad that he did not know how Forrest had got himself into that jam. Robert had seen the fate which befell Fractelle and had not practiced his markmanship for some time nor had he ever trained in dueling. Forrest was to coldly efficient at dispatching a foe.

R0bert did wonder what Forrest was trying to do with all those XX's, R0bert has found one X to be quite adequate for his own meager needs.

R0bert

It seems that another demon of OLO, all but identical to the one recently cast out, still afflicts the body politic of the Forum.

I refer to the bug wherein the use of quotation marks in a topic title caused the truncation of the title from immediately before their first use. It seems, I suspect, that the use of single quotation marks (apostrophes) has the same effect.

I do not know for sure whether stevenlmeyer actually used single quotation marking on what I suspect were the words 'Islamic south' for his topic for this discussion ( http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2107 ), but its my guess that he did. I find such are often necessary when not exactly quoting, but using a buzz word like 'buzzword'; the idea being to convey, perhaps, mild disapproval of the term at the same time as having to use it in order to be understood in context.

I just mention it in case anyone is monitoring this thread, lest there should be a failure to communicate.

ALSO VIEWERS ARE FAILING TO VOTE! (See the post three posts back from this one.)

Do not copy or use XXs when voting! Just re-order the list according to your preference and follow the instructions on the OLO bullet paper.

You can't expect improvement in posting facilities if you are too lazy to vote.

OK Forrest

Here's my definitive list.

1. Spelling and punctuation correction edit facility for topic titles

2. Bold

3. Non-intrusive but distinct background colour for intra-Forum quotes

4. Standard sized font

5. Italic (confined to non-Forum quotes)

6. OP designed mini-polls

7. Coloured text options

8. Unique user avatars

I believe in Keeping It Simple, Stupid.

Have sent email to OLO powers-that-be, so no more discussion will be entered into.

Forrest looked long and hard at the screen.

Although it was a 19 inch CRT, and the text size had been increased from the Firefox view menu text size option, it was still hard to tell. Was it a comma, or a full stop? The screen seemed to slowly pulsate alternately into, and just out of, good focus.

There was real potential for serious breakdown in communication over this one.

The uncertainty in question was really very topical. It involved (or didn't, as the case actually was) what Forrest thought should have been the use of single quotation marks around what could be taken as a 'buzzword' expression. Problem was, the single quotation marks were not there! The expression stood on its own, and had to be treated seriously.

"I believe in Keeping It Simple, Stupid."

Now 'Keep it simple, stupid' is a well known expression, often expressed acronymically as KISS.

When he had first seen it, Forrest had seen the first punctuation mark as a full stop. And he noted the capitalisations involved. He had found his left hand unconsciously unsnapping the heavy brass press-stud on the old, 1917 vintage, distressed genuine Australian tan leather holster flap; his right hand unbidden wrapping around the S&W butt in a fluid motion while his unblinking eyes never left the screen.

Stupid.

Forrest breathed deeply, tore his eyes away from the text, and his mouse hand from the revolver butt, and purposefully clicked another tab on his browser. This matter would wait. He would get back to it. He had a post to make on another thread, one that also involved a power play.

When Forrest looked again it was quite clear. It was most definitely a comma, not a full stop! No drifting in and out of focus. Comma. Comma. Comma. That changed everything! For some reason, since his visit to that other thread, the meaning had become absolutely clear to Forrest: Fractelle had been quoting the expression, just without the single quotes. Joy! He felt so good he could even have given her an acronym in gratitude!

Thanks Forrest - you're such a card :)

You're quite correct, of course (as is Fractelle). I know I'm starting to get on a bit, but the OLO typeface is a bit small for me even with reading glasses - and punctuation marks are often virtually invisible. That's why I use << >> instead of " " when quoting people.

I agree with the principle of KISS, and I think Fractelle's suggestions are about as elaborate as I'd like to see here. We certainly need some ways to emphasise text without appearing to shout, and also to indicate quotations - indeed all punctuation - more clearly.

Hi FG,
Very much agree with Fractelle's list as well, except perhaps for font colours if that means that insults and emotional outbursts are gonna be highlighted in bright blood-red, or worse- bible quotes might return in bold halo-gold.

So yeah, Fractelle's list minus the font colours.

I'll second Celivia's list.

Another option may be to have a user profile setting which allow for a choice of having coloured fonts displayed or not. I'm assuming that the page content is generated on the fly based on content stored in a database (or something like that) so if updates are done to the site that should be a possibility. For casual browsers who don't log nin maybe an option checkbox set for a session.

R0bert

I agree with Celivia, a definite 'no' from me to the coloured text or background.

CJ

While we're discussing punctuation, what's this thing?

:)

Is it meant to be a substitute for an exclamation mark? If so I'm less than impressed! In fact, I'm less than impressed whatever it's meant to be!

Yep. I'm also up for the same list as you said, Bronwyn...minus the glorious technicolour! Ye gods and little fishes - just imagine a BD extravaganza: it'd make your eyes water.

Um...the symbol you asked about also puzzled me for a while until I worked out that (I think) its a typeface smileyface. Which, because of the limitations of type face, turns it (to me, anyway) into a twisted grin. Gives an extra dimension to BD's posts, as he scatters them about like pearls before swine. (Can you imagine what he'd do with a full catalogue of icons: e.mails from him must be like Kindgergarten Playtime texts.)

Technically, it's an emoticon [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon ]of the simplest kind. They used to be handy on the old listservs and usenet groups that were the Internet before the Web was invented in the early 90s.

On reflection, I agree that they're far too geeky nowadays - besides which, it's apparently a dead giveaway about one's age :(

I undertake to eschew them henceforth.

Romany

Thanks for your explanation, and colourful references to our dear BD. LOL, yes, I hate to imagine.

It obviously got CJ thinking too, "I undertake to eschew them henceforth."

Never known you to be persuaded that easily before, CJ. I do agree though, you have got an image to maintain!

It is good to see Fractelle, who started this thread, recovering so well from the recent injury to her vascular system. Given her ambidexterity, it is to be hoped that she doesn't have to just hunt and peck at the keyboard with her right hand only, and that she has recovered full use of her left arm.

Given that this thread is due to slip off the default index page at 2:17:51 PM today*, I thought, having at one point very nearly hijacked her thread, that it is only fair to mark its imminent departure from view with a red flag. In the context of thread hijacking, Fractelle may find this old topic, 'Goldbach's conjecture and thread hijacking", interesting: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7755#123285

She is particularly to be commended for the accuracy of the thread's title. Apropos of that, many OLO users have not yet voted. Voting is compulsory. Voting instructions are contained in the 46th post in the thread.

She may, or may not, be pleased to learn that her own confession in her opening post, that "I am as guilty as any when it comes to misreading or misunderstanding another’s post" may well be demonstrated in action here: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7755#123285 I gain the sense from the immediately preceding post of phoenix94 that she and phoenix94 are both really making the same point. What isn't clear, perhaps, is that phoenix94 may have been being critical of the replacement of 'quiet' fires with catastrophic wildfires.

Perhaps it was the literary style used by phoenix94 that put her off. Pervades our whole literary heritage, the old KJV, doesn't it?

It has been a phun thread. Thanks.

* Footnote.

It may well be that the topic does not disappear from the default index view until 2:17:51 PM tomorrow, Tuesday 16 September. I suspect the OLO topic drop-kicker may work on a 31 day month, not the actual calendar month applicable. We'll see.