RobP,
Well, I am in a different company than you only as regards that one sweeping statement of yours that I quoted, not in general.

>>the Church tends to concentrate on issues it can be seen to be positive on and omits to mention its failings (unless forced to by others).<<

Who does not prefer positive aspects of whatever one stands for? If you are naive about something, as the Church was about the psychological damage their deviant clergy were inflicting, you probably need a push from the outside to see that the problem is more sophisticated and consequence more dangerous for the victim.

For instance, the Church needed Catholic biologists and other scientists - not their own theologians - to rid them of the naive world view (believed in today by only e.g. Richard Dawkins) that these scientific theories, like evolution and Darwinism, are on loggerheads with the Catholic faith. In our case it was the psychologists (and lawyers), Catholic or not, who explained the Church office holders the psychological (and legal) naivete of the way they treated both the victims and the perpetrators.

George:
"...I could not have answered your questions better than mjpb even if I wanted to, because I am not that informed as mjpb..."

Wow! It's as bad as that?

"...and I do not see any point in trying to answer loaded questions like “When did you stop beating your wife?”."

Who asked you to answer that sort of question? Let's repeat my questions and you tell me which of the six is like a stop-wife-beating question.

1. Why would the Church hierarchy think they were best placed to identify the four 'representatives' of all their victims?

2. Why were real victims who have asked to meet the Pope not invited to nominate their own representatives (e.g. through Broken Rites)? Or at least consulted?

3. Why was the Pope not allowed to talk with real victims as he has elsewhere? What's he being shielded from, and by whom, and why?

4. Why did Pell tell the media a few days ago that there was to be no such event and then explain to them yesterday that the 'victim representatives' had been chosen weeks ago?

5. Why does the Church hierarchy in Australia continue to think they can fool the public in Australia with such a charade?

6. When is the Church going to start taking sexual abuse by its agents seriously?

I agree with you that "...there are victims who still believe that the Church can contribute to a healing process..." I'm one of them and I have some ideas that I'd like to put to Cardinal Pell.

How can the Church decide who these people are if they won't meet with a range of victims? Divine wisdom?

"...and I do not see any point in trying to answer loaded questions like “When did you stop beating your wife?”."

"Who asked you to answer that sort of question? Let's repeat my questions and you tell me which of the six is like a stop-wife-beating question."

2. Why were real victims who have asked to meet the Pope not invited to nominate their own representatives (e.g. through Broken Rites)? Or at least consulted?
tick

3. Why was the Pope not allowed to talk with real victims as he has elsewhere? What's he being shielded from, and by whom, and why?
tick

5. Why does the Church hierarchy in Australia continue to think they can fool the public in Australia with such a charade?
tick

6. When is the Church going to start taking sexual abuse by its agents seriously?
tick

Did I miss any?

The Pope made a public apology to all victims. He also made a private apology to those who were presumably grounded. It would be absurd to have someone ranting aggressively who would not benefit from the apology present. Imagine if the floor show if that Foster guy had managed to invite himself? What purpose would it serve? You are just scraping the bottom of the barrel to find excuses to say something negative.

"I agree with you that "...there are victims who still believe that the Church can contribute to a healing process..." I'm one of them and I have some ideas that I'd like to put to Cardinal Pell."

He is at the Sydney Archdioecese. Why not write a letter or join the Towards Healing program?

"How can the Church decide who these people are if they won't meet with a range of victims? Divine wisdom?"

Surely they do meet with a range of victims. There is anything from the grounded victims to the ones like that guy I used as an example.

From my point of view, the bottom line on this is that the senior clergy of the Church are the equivalent of the board of a company in that they both set the tone for the culture and conduct of their respective organisations.

Every so often, companies change directors to get new blood, find a new perspective or change direction. The Church will not fully solve the problem of sexual and other abuse until they do likewise. It's just like a law of physics: a body has inertia until acted on by an outside force.

I think this apology stuff is pretty easy to understand. WYD is basically a marketing exercise. Why would you want to taint the product by allowing the agenda to be switched to negative aspects of the product.

The Pope planned to apologise, but he was damned if he was going to let this detract from the recruitment drive, so he did it at the end.

It also had the advantage of leaving on a positive note, in an environment where nobody is listeneing anymore about the products flaws, as the event is over now anyway and people are bored of it.

Quite intelligent PR I think.

mjpb

You just don't get it , do you?

e.g. a question like "Why were real victims who have asked to meet the Pope not invited to nominate their own representatives (e.g. through Broken Rites)? Or at least consulted?" in your mind is the same kind of question as loaded questions like “When did you stop beating your wife?”.

Try thinking on a conceptual level. And put your pre-judgments to one side to hear the voices of the victims.

I don't know about others on OLO, but I've had enough of your rudeness and inability to treat people with respect - "that Foster guy", you call him. He's not just 'that guy'. He and his family have had the most outrageous evil perpetrated against them - two young daughters serially raped by a man of God followed by one suicide and one wheelchair bound probably for life. He's not just 'that guy'. He's a guy who has some aching need to understand how the trust he put in God and the priest was so betrayed.

It's not a "floor show" that people whose children have had their lives shattered by priests want. It's acknowledgment, dialogue, owner ship of the problem and commitment to change within the Church, opportunities to start to see if they can put their lives back together. A shoulder to cry on not a closed door to bang their heads against.

As for telling me or any other victim to write a letter or join the Towards Healing program, why would you assume that we have not already done that - to no avail?

Why don't you come and meet some of the members of Broken Rites? Are you sufficiently 'grounded' to accept that challenge