mjpb you offer me evidence that my fears are well founded.
I am aware you are Catholic, and that you say not biased one.
Pell has form he covered up for his mates and his church.
Is it not true your church claims God is the one God who loves us all?
And that he died for us all?
In fact in a church making those claims, yes in other Church's other followers of the same God.
Children have been assaulted by men said to teach us how to worship that God?
How can Pell, a hundred times one hundred Pells not serve that God by removing the threat?
If men who have committed such crime can stay in the church, sometimes still working in the name of compassion, you may as well find a place for Dennis Ferguson.
Ten years from now posters will write about more crimes committed against children post this world youth day, maybe during it if.
The church fails to truly confront its sins.

Stickey,

I admit my errors. e.g. on 10 July I clarified that "...Pell and Ridsdale were some years apart in their schooling..."

”But the substance stands. Pell was Ridsdale's friend and went to court in his support while denying Ridsdale's many victims.”

That wasn’t the substance or even a good summary of the fact. Only the first half is correct. Pell had been his friend. He was his boss. Ridsdale was going to plead guilty. He would no longer be a priest. He would go to jail. Pell may have been there out of curiousity as his boss. But if he was there to offer support then although personally paedophiles make me uncomfortable, as a Christian I can't fault Pell for being compassionate. It isn’t the Christian ideal to spit and jeer people on their way to the gallows.

The substance was an innuendo by a journalist that Pell must have been lieing when he said he didn’t know Ridsdale was a paedophile when he lived with him because Ridsdale was had already done wrong. That seemed an extremely unlikely possibility. You adduced many “errors” that highlighted the implausibility.

”You 'recently' read Broken Rites website and implied that I was lying when I said that they were unhappy with Pell's procedures.”

I did point out they said it was better than those of other Bishops.

"Chris MacIsaac, from sexual abuse advocacy group Broken Rites, has been a strong critic of Cardinal Pell's actions. “

I’d take that to mean he got sucked in by the recent media coverage not that he was going back on their earlier claims.

"We are constantly hearing from victims that they feel re-abused by the church process, by the bishops' reaction to their claim."

An Australian Bishop recently defied the Popes direction that paedophiles can’t be priests. He has a convicted paedophiles saying Masses. Not all Bishops are as benefitial to victims as Pell. Rome does a lot to address the issue but that doesn’t mean Bishops follow the direction. In the Catholic Church there is something like a civil war going on.

Stickey,

”Without a scrap of evidence, you scurrilously accuse me "...unethically using victims.""Misrepresenting any sex scandal as paedophilia and making false allegations to support a dubious allegation to make the perception of a public figure contrary to reality...”

I did get a little frustrated. The misrepresentation evidence is in our many posts above. You supported the dubious allegation. When I highlighted your “errors” you wanted me to sweep them under the carpet because supposedly false allegations about Pell help victims. Likewise when I pointed out the media’s misuse of the word paedophilia you even defended that saying I was being grossly insensitive etc.

”1. I myself am a victim...”

In spite of our earlier discussion I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt because I’d hate to be wrong in the other direction. Please understand that you need to promote the interests of victims. If you don’t support people like Pell who can address the issues you will condemn future people to the same fate.

”2. ...any evidence ...I have misrepresented "any sex scandal as paedophilia"..."

The media do that. You seemed to come in reasonably early in the discussion so I thought you would have encountered that. Apologies if that assumption created a misunderstanding.

”3. I further challenge you to itemise my "false allegations" against Pell (other than implying he and Ridsdale went to school together...).”

Stickey please don’t.

”Pell appalled at the Church's track record? Pell is head of the Church. How can he be appalled at his own record which you say is excellent?”

Pell wasn't always head. Any abuse is too much. One thing Belly got right is: “Children have been assaulted by men said to teach us how to worship that God?” Add that to my criticisms of Bishops in earlier posts and you can see why Pell (and I) are appalled irrespective of comparison with other organizations. A “good” comparison isn’t good enough. It is legitimate to point out the result of the comparison if the media misrepresent the comparison but no abuse and no dereliction of duty by Bishops is acceptable.

I was utterly appalled last night to hear Pell say words to the effect:

‘and go out and have lots of babies because at the moment you er we er are not keeping the population up to a stable level’

He seemed to say this just out of the blue, not connected to any question or line of discussion, as though it was one of his most important beliefs!

I’m not one for offensively branding people but…what an enormous goose!

His comments on climate change also seemed to be a very long way short of being informed even at a most basic level.

I now get the impression that he has been living in some insular environment for decades, well removed from the real world.

Ludwig,

Perhaps it is something important to him. I can't think of any other explanation. You wouldn't think he would want to be controversial at the moment.

"His comments on climate change also seemed to be a very long way short of being informed even at a most basic level."

There was something of a furore when he said that before we spend a fortune on preventing climate change we should ensure that we actually influence it. I didn't think of that before in my 'reasons why people hate Pell for things he has really done' list but that would probably be a biggy.

Your comments reminded me that on the news last night one of the first things the Pope said after arriving was that we need to care for our environment. The reporters immediately referred to Pell's global warming comments with relish as if they were wielding the Pope's comments against him like his boss was kicking him up the bum. I don't know if Pell made any new comments in the interview you saw but his original global warming heresy still has the media, and many other people, after his blood.

mjpb

My nick-name is Spikey. And Chris MacIsaac had not had a sex change when I last saw her.

So Pell had been Ridsdale's friend and now you say he was 'his boss' (I'd like evidence of that claim). But you also offer: "Pell may have been there out of curiousity as his boss." Not exercising his managerial responsibility?

Although you keep denying it, it remains the case that Pell did not support Ridsdale's victims. Yet, you say "...as a Christian I can't fault Pell for being compassionate". Well, you may not be able to fault him, but I'm certain Ridsdale's numerous victims could.

How does the Church generally and Pell in particular show Christian compassion by supporting the pedophile but not his victims?

It's interesting to learn from you that "In the Catholic Church there is something like a civil war going on." And Pell is the head of this Church in Australia? Does that signify anything to you?

Do you think it's OK to make malicious false claims about me because you got "a little frustrated"? More Christian compassion?

I repeat: I have never ever on OLO or elsewhere represented "any sex scandal as paedophilia". I challenged you to find where I had. You failed to do so because you couldn't so I accept your half-hearted apology - but reject your explanation: that you confused me with "the media".

If I say, "I myself am a victim”, I don't want you to tell me "I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt". Nor do I need your patronising "Please understand that you need to promote the interests of victims."

When you say: "If you don’t support people like Pell who can address the issues you will condemn future people to the same fate" are you saying that Anthony Jones should go away and be satisfied with Pell's mismanagement and failure to show him compassion?

I'm pleased with your clear assertion that "...no abuse and no dereliction of duty by Bishops is acceptable". I'd be even happier if you extended that to Cardinal Pell.