Yvonne, "Or of children being portrayed as victims of both"

Usual Suspect "Obviously you couldn't display children as victims of women though, as women are mothers. Mothers will always put their children first, and if they don't, they really need help as any women who abuses her children is acting so out of character she must be under enormous stress or mental illness. Men on the other hand are violent by nature, and need punishment not help, and are often paedophiles not to be trusted around children anyway. "

Usual Suspect, Yvonne may make comments that we don't like at times but she has already acknowledged that both genders harm kids. Try dialog rather than opportunities for conflict. Yvonne has stuck around to discuss the issue (more than most do). She accepts it's not all men bad women good (again better than many). If we are to make progress on this issue it won't come by kicking anybody who comments but does not see the issues in exactly the same terms.

I'm not certain but I think there was some binge drinking adds targetting young women.

Yvonne, I'm one who has not placed much emphasis on the lack of adds portraying men being victims of men or on the child abuse stuff (although I have touched on that with the misuse of the idea of protecting women and children to support bias in residency). I'm not aware of any active discrimination against men resulting from misinformation about male violence outside the home. I've not been there but as far as I know male victims of violence outside the home do get taken seriously and are not assumed to be at fault.

The web sites I've seen dealing with child abuse and neglect deal with abuse by both genders, not ignore one side almost completely. I don't always agree with the analysis of the material but the raw stats appear to be genuine and accessable. I've not seen stuff on that front that puts children more at risk by ignoring substantial risk.

R0bert

Robert,

I accept your point, but I never attributed these attitudes to Yvonne. I talk about the attitudes I see in society, backed up by the adverts, and government. I don't see how that is 'kicking' Yvonne.

Usual Suspect. "Mothers will always put their children first, and if they don't, they really need help as any women who abuses her children is acting so out of character she must be under enormous stress or mental illness."

I find it strange that it is acceptable that it's OK for Mothers to be violent because they have had a bad hair day.

"Men on the other hand are violent by nature, and need punishment not help, and are often paedophiles not to be trusted around children anyway. "

I take umbrige with this comment. This assumed statement is thrown around by womens groups to gain an advantage over males. It is a MYTH.

Studies show that more women commit infantaside then men. This fact is conveniently ignored by all because nobody wants to recognise the fact. It's nicer to hold an imagined "ideal mother"

Fathers are just as caring as mothers. It's just that more is made of male violence then of mother violence.

How do I know. Personal experience from my first two wives. Now I keep cuttings of female violence. I have a port full of cuttings mostly small notes from Page 3 of the paper. Men on the other hand always made the front page.

Usual Suspect sorry I'd missed your post earlier in the week. I may be misreading your content then. That happens.

Jayb if you reread Usual Suspects posts I think you'll find he is paraphrasing the arguments used to attack men and provide extra support for members of mothers groups. He's not stating his own position with those comments.

R0bert

Sarah

My name is Sarah
I am but three,
My eyes are swollen
I cannot see,

I must be stupid,
I must be bad,
What else could have made
My mommy so mad?

I wish I were better,
I wish I weren't ugly,
Then maybe my Mommy
Would still want to hug me.

I can't speak at all! ,
I can't do a wrong
Or else I'm locked up
All the day long.

When I awake I'm all alone
The house is dark
My folks aren't home.

When my Mommy does come
I'll try and be nice,
So maybe I'll get just
One whipping tonight.

Don't make a sound!
I just heard a car
My mommy is back
From Charlie's Bar.

I hear her curse
My name she calls
I press myself
Against the wall.

I try and hide
From her evil eyes
I'm so afraid now
I'm starting to cry.

She finds me weeping
She shouts ugly words,
She says its my fault
That she suffers at work.

She slaps me and hits me
And yells at me more,
I finally get free
And I run for the door.

She's already locked it
And I start to bawl,
She takes me and throws me
Against the hard wall.

I fall to the floor
With my bones nearly broken,
And my mommy continues
With more bad words spoken.

'I'm sorry!', I scream
But it's now much too late
Her face has been twisted
Into unimaginable hate.

The hurt and the pain
Again and again
Oh please God, have mercy!
Oh please let it end!

And she finally stops
And heads for the door,
While I lay there motionless
Sprawled on the floor.

My name is Sarah
And I am but three,
Tonight my mommy
Murdered me.

Hi all

I think that where the system is lacking is that some women really can be appalling parents just as some men can, and it is not necessarily a gender issue. But there is certainly far more attention given in the media and the statistics to domestic violence perpetrated by men than by women, and this results in men who are victims getting a "raw deal".

Also, perhaps some women tend to think a bit more strategically, in terms of enacting DVOs when in fact they are the violent partner, and the man has simply retaliated, none of which is acceptable and (apart from placing a strain in the legal system) detracts from the real intention of DVOs. I'd be interested to know if any of our (anonymous) posters here, both male and female, have felt the need to take out DVOs and what the outcomes were.

I do know that in some states the man has been automatically perceived to be the "wrong-doer", and in fact has been imprisoned. By the time the facts emerged, and these men were exonerated, they had list their jobs, there homes, and their standing in the community.

Nicky