Over the last few years it is clear that the ongoing impact of the drought has all but wiped out some farmers, especially those in Regional areas of outback N.S.W and Q.L.D.

Can they recover from this sustained and unforgiving onslaught?

Does the Government handouts to 'help' farmers come anywhere near what is required for drought survival?

Are Governments serious about helping drought stricken farmers to overcome the massive devastation to theyre farms and their livliehood?

You are right and this should have been looked at long ago but due to the incompetence of both political partys just wasnt important enough, hello this is about australia and its people.

But this is the way the governments act just before an up and coming election which is discraceful.
When the australian people are in need then they should act.

The government cannot make it rain but these farmers are an integral part to australia.
People need to remember this when they tuck into dinner.
Without them our food will have to be imported and what quality will we be eating, also if they are not looked after which i suppose better late than never for the future.
With this do we see city folk out farming, i dought many would even know.
I was brought up in the country and i understand what they are going through.

Australian peoples Party
email:swulrich@bigpond.net.au

I agree with you about the timing of any kind of input from the Government. Attention given to the plight of farmers tends to be concentrated around the lead up to the election and the rest of their year very little.

A lot of farmers are selling off their sheep/cattle and selling up having given up on the battle to remain viable, I dont think now they legist stock due to the widespread lack of feed.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1746114.htm

It is a severe and sustained drought and this situation will test the faith of all but the toughest farming families.

Also like to add that when farmers struggle ,whole communities suffer.
Out here we are surrounded by wheat and sheep farmers, some canola and rye.The towns in these areas are directly effected by the gains and losses experienced by farmers.

Folk in these communities are very concerned for the farmers in the district as they know the livliehood of the town for the most part depend on farming being successful and rain is a constant topic of conversation.

So it gets to the point we get sick of the constant rainfall observations, its like change the subject already, but it just brings it home the awareness by local people that they know their fortunes rise and fall on the prosperity of their local farmer.

I meant to paste this link to the above post.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/NSW-wont-top-up-drought-package/2006/10/17/1160850924691.html

http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/drought-to-hit-farmers-for-6bn/2006/10/27/1161749286858.html

I recall visiting relatives in a countrt house (800ks from Sydney). The women inside, were discussing how utterly terrible it was married young women, after having three children, should still receive Government assistance. Should these people have learn their lesson? Unamously they said, "we should cut them off"!

Next, I when outside to backyard,the [argarian socialist] farker husband were in a large huddle, drinking gog and eating steak, swapping stories about to receive grants from the Government.

Two things struck me:

a) Farmers are right wing, except when it comes to agranism socialism, which helps them,

b) They were/are hypocrites.

Moreover, the larger holdings farmers drove late modelled cars and many travelled internationally once a year.

Others had a house and job in the town, plus small holding in the environs. That way, they could be claim to be primary producers, and offset salaries incomes to the ATO.

I am not unsympathetic to paying tax money to country people to are hit by a freak 100 year drought or flood. But why pay these people when the flood and drought comes every 10-20 years? Especially, when they don't invest or diversfy in the good times.

Five droughts in a lifetime on farms in arid arid areas. Why should dwellers and evan green pastural rural dwellers pay the unsound planning of others?

If my Milkbar or Video store store fails in the Simpson Dessert, who will bail me out? No-one. Why? Because, it is the wrong place to situate the business. No-one should.

Rural workers make-up 5% of the Oz population, but produce only 3.5% of national GDP. They cost the rest of us billions of dollars. Even the rich ones (millionaires) once had their hands in the cookie jar, when Fraser was PM. ... Continued

FRIENDS AND MODERATOR--SORRY, "IF" DOUBLE POSTED ABOVE, WRONG BUTTON, I THINK , THIS WAS UNINTENDED--

In some Scandinavian coutries for farmers, there is something like our "work for the dolw scheme". The farmers work assemblying electronic components on mobile phones (?, or something). To receive Governments or even direct salary, we can do the same. Farmers act as call centres for North America. Moreover, the Farmers would speak better English ;-). Also, there is plenty of road work leading into to do on cariageways leading to small county towns: Farmers caould become, fairly paid iterate workers on those country roads, they are so found of complaining about.

Australia is the Wealthiest country in World (Assets/Popilation - World Bank), usually second/third with Canada on the Human Development Index (UNESCO), often fasted growing OECD economy, way ahead of the US on its ability NOT to import or Export and has AAA national soveign credit rating. Not because of the farmers, since 1957 (Common Mark), anyway.

Australia can import food during the droughts! Meanwhile, the farmers should do productive work.

If a Sydney or Perth a retrenched white collar worker has to drive a cab for a year; why should a farmer a stach shelve in Coles, say in Tamworth or Bourke? The former is more likely to have a mortgage and not an inherited property.

-- My Father (b.1911), who was born in rural Victoria, told me that, that during post-WWI and through the Great Depression, Farmers didn't do unto less fortunate others, as they now want the Government to unto them.

-- Admittedly it is European farmers, Japanese (rice) and US (lamb) farmers are a drain on economies and have huge politcal clout. But these even folk don't farm in th desert! We need a progressive liberal party, non a conservative liberal [oxymoron] party having one hard tied beihind its back by a country party national party clothing.

Dear reader, you can challenge my opinions. But the economic facts, ARE FACTS.

Regards,

O.

There is nothing special about farmers, and the less able among them certainly should not be receiving taxpayer handouts. Other businesspeople who cannot make a go of it have to sell out before they are eligible for the dole. Failed farmers should be no different.

While we are being asked to accept change in just about every aspect of our lives, we are still expected to believe that all Australians have some magical connection with the land and therefore, we really, really care for farmers. What nonsense! Farming is a business like any other, most of its product going to exports – a mere 3% of exports.

The vagaries of weather is one things farmers have to cope with. A cyclical drought is no excuse for handing out money to poor managers farming on land that was never any good in the first place.

Australians should be telling Messrs. Howard and Vaille very firmly that they are out of date and out of touch with the electorate, and to be more carefully how they toss our money around

Lee, Oliver.

Im wondering why they seem to have special services accorded to them..

It used to be said a few years back that 'Australia rides on the sheeps back'
And I think that this is much the same for all farmers and primary industry.

Will our economy go down the tube if we dont assist when they are struggling and theyre livliehoods are being threatened?

These primary producers of stock, sheep cattle , pigs and grain farmers etc would make a much larger impact to our economy than say a privately run business..

Maybe we just cant afford to let them go under?
The workload for the average farmer/stationowner is huge.

Wayfarer,

"It used to be said a few years back that 'Australia rides on the sheeps back'. And I think that this is much the same for all farmers and primary industry." - Leigh

Friend, that was fifty years back, when other Europe had been wiped of the map and purchased Commonwealth goods. This was the case and not is the case. When the rural industry held I percentage of exports, it was not mentioned Australia is a relatively self contained economy. Exports wre/are a small portion of GDP.

Leigh is right WHY ARE FARMERS DIFFERENT, REPEAT, WHY ARE FARMERS DIFFERENT?

Perhaps, help out with a drought ever fifty or one hundred years, because of atypical misfortune. Fine. If an earthquake leveled a bicycle factory. I would have no objection to govenment helping with reconstruction.

But when farmers establish their livelihood in arid, out of the way places, the rest of us need to dig deep into our pockets to cover their mistakes, year after year.

"Riding on the sheep's back" is an anchronism: Like buying horse shoes in Pitt Street.

If the roads leading into a small country town have pot holes and broken shoulders and local farms are unproductive half of the time; why not multi-taskand receive a fair labourer's pay for to productively dig new roads, rather than unproductively dig dry furrows.

Farmers: You are not special. You need help once/twice only as limited assistance, or, move, or, retrain, or, multi-task. That's what everyone else does.

You have "rock fisherman" mentality... "Here, Fisherman, don't fish off Point Danager". "B---er you, mate, I always do what I want!"
"Wow, look at the size of that wave... Oops, I'm drowing... Do I get a state paid funeral?"

I think there is a reasonable case for the rural sector receiving assistance during tough times. One reason is that farmers produce food, a necessity for our survival. Most non-rural businesses, however, do not provide essential goods or services. The loss of such enterprises would therefore be barely noticed, except by the owner and his/her employees. Food, whether locally produced or imported is essential. A reliable supply of imported food is by no means assured, so it is in Australia’s national interest to maintain the rural sector, especially because of the variable nature of our climate.

As to Australia being the wealthiest country in the world, perhaps you should take into account liabilities/population. Indeed, thanks to the non-rural sector, which is responsible for the bulk of our imports, Australia constantly runs deficits on its current account. Our performance as an exporter has been appalling, despite the recent mining boom. To realise the consequences of years of current account deficits, one only need examine the size of our foreign debt, the extent to which foreigners own commercial property and the extent of foreign ownership of Australian companies. We really are a banana republic with clean drinking water, except we don’t have any bananas and it looks like we won’t have any water before too long either

Oliver, you may need to do a little research before commenting on something that you seem to know little about. This drought is classed as a 1 in 100 year drought. This is why farmers are asking for a little understanding and assistance. There are still plenty out there tht are too proud to ask for assistance, even if they are eligible. Farmers are a very proud and stubborn bunch of people (there are a few bad eggs that will take every dollar they can lay their hands on, but these types of people are throughout society). I am a country accountant for whom farmers make up 80% of my client base. Most of my clients have been eligible for drought assistance in some form or another for 3 years. They first had to have 2 bad years before qualifying. Some have now lost their 5th crop in a row. This is becoming a city v country debate, because so many in the city have lost touch with the country around them. Many years ago a large number of city-dwellers had relatives and friends in the country, either as farmers or relying on farmers for their living. This is no longer the case, and has affected the city-based view of the country. Few can imagine the struggle of not only having zero imcome with which to pay household bills, but also having to find money year after year to replant. Those that had places paid off have had to reborrow often large sums of money to keep going.

cont..

Various parts of the country have various drought expectations. In the liverpool plains, the drought expectation is one in every 10 years, in the central west it is one in every 7, further west to Walgett and you are looking at more like 2 in every 7. Farmers know these statistics and work around them. Land prices have reflected these expected returns (and lack of). Very few farmed areas though expect 5 poor to bad years in a row. This is why farmers are facing such a dire situation now. The sad fact is that this dry will knock such a whole in plans and finances that few will have recovered properly by the time the next normal dry comes around. A drought of this magnitude will affect farmers for many years to come. Another point to consider for those city-based people that are worried about constantly dipping into their pockets - drought is a constant factor of the Australian environment, but it normally doesnt hit every where at once. As another poster said (sorry, cant remember who), chances are at any one time, part of Australia qualifies for drought aid. But please dont think that this is all of the farmers, all of the time. The next time you are concerned about where your tax dollars are going in support of farmers, get your maps out and have a bit of a look. Even better, go for a drive, stop and have lunch in a drought affected town. Have a look for yourself.

Goodanye'Country Gal.
I used to run a mobile supply biz stocking up the cockies and tradespeople in the late 70's when another drought hit the country. Town's businesses just closed their doors.When the land dries up so does the income. What really p...es me orf is that honest to good small farmers have been bought out by big investment firms, with a water entitlement included, as to be able to serve their non-environmentally enterprises like cotton.Follow the money trail (going overseas)What one takes out of the soil needs to be replenished with similar stuff, wouldn't you say? Growing the same crops year in year out on the same plot with the addition of fertilizers drains the soil of all the right nutrients and organic matter until it is dead and waterless soil. I know that dry farming has it's own problems but hey that is what the farmers were told for generations by our governments how to use and what to use with this land. Organic farming would be the shot and this would be the best time to invest to bring along a change.Focussing on Australia's selfsustainability instead of exporting gas and coal to china,let's do some thinking here...let's be selfish and feed our mouths first (CHEAPLY) instead of selling our spare wheat to where ever! I know it sounds over-simplified, but the best ideas are generally SIMPLE! One cannot put a simple idea into a TOO HARD basket,that would really look stupid!
Anyhow I found the average australian farmer a good and hard working person how was always capable to look after his own future and the land he is borrowing from mother earth.
Anyone interested in ORGONE energy? Type it in google and find the watermaker. If unsuccessful type in "Rife"

Just my cup full of "fluoridated city of Melbourne water" worth(less)!!

I strongly advise keeping cotton out of the debate. There are few industries that generate a more emotive, and generally uninformed reponse than the cotton industry. However, they are not all the terrible environmental vandals that many would believe of them. I feel qualified to say this after having worked in the industry (and on a corporate cotton farm too - shock horror!!).

To those that advocate a corporatisation of Australian farm land, I assume that you are quite comfortable with the approach of say Cubbie Station, and the impact that this has on the Murray Darling system.

Interesting example, CG - isn't Cubbie about the biggest corporate cotton farm in the country? Exactly what is good about it, beyond earning export dollars, at the expense of all primary producers downstream?

I believe farming is the only occupation where when the times are bad the government bail you out. The argument that farming is the only occupation that we cannot live without is rubbish! Try living without doctors, plumbers (turds everywhere), teachers, nurses…………. Farmers are not in a league of their own in fact many farms were already in the family; therefore a mortgage wasn’t a problem like the rest of us. I bet that farmers pay far less tax than me and you even in the good times. When I worked at Longford gas plant on the restoration following the explosion I found that there were many farmers working on the oil rigs for one week then on the farm the next week because offshore was on a week on / week off roster, they were earning $120,000 plus a year offshore while buying new utes and motorbikes tax exempt because they were primary producers. Let’s not forget the farmers who supported the government in the waterfront dispute by grubbing on fellow Australians. I have no sympathy for farmers especially those that are uneducated and farming marginal land.

CJ you're correct. Whilst I think what Cubbie has done is quite clever in terms of drought-proofing their own property and ensuring viability for its investors, it has a huge impact on those downstream from it, including other farmers, towns (incl Adelaide) and the environment. Areas immediately across the border from Cubbie used to rely on regular floods to revegatate their country. Ok bearing in mind that these places would have missed out the last few years anyway, they missed out on a number of years production prior to this drought, because the floods didnt come down the river. Its a common thing to hear in QLD that any water that gets to the NSW border is wasted, because NSW govt has legislated a certain amount of "environmental" flow. Stupidly this is a set amount, instead of a percentage of the actual flow, which would see the environment given a realistic amount based on the season. But I digress. The simple fact of the matter is that corporate farms care more about short-term profits than long term sustainability. If the numbers turn bad for them they will simply sell up, rather than worry about how their kids and grandkids are going to make a living off the land.

MechEngineer, farming is not the only occupation that the govt bails out. If you loose your job for whatever reason, you will be eligible for unemployment benefits, the same way as EC declared farmers are now. The main difference is that EC declared farmers can receive benefits without their farm assets being taken into account, in recognition of the fact that if this happened, they could not get back into their occupation as the capital costs would be too high. Its a unique industry in that respect. I do not for a moment discount the value of other jobs and businesses and I think you will find that few farmers will. Recognise though that farming is a unique industry that faces production issues that few other business do.

As for farms that have been handed down having no mortgage. Where do I start. Most people have more than 1 child. Often only one child remains on the farm. These people in their wills (at the minimum) have to leave either a percentage of their assets to the kids who leave (which is normally funded by those that stay, by bank borrowings), or give them cash before hand (again funded by those that are staying by way of bank borrowings). If more than 1 child stays, more land will have to be purchased (again with borrowings) so that the farm can support two families (assuming that both children will in turn have their own kids). In other cases the farm is considered to be the parents retirement fund, so the kids that plan to stay have to buy mum and dad out (which is fair, but again has to be funded by borrowings). To increase land area to increase income and gain those important economies of scale, more money must be borrowed. And then when you get a situation like the last 5 years where there has been next to no income, the bank gets its door knocked on again.

I know of 1 farmer who has no mortgage on his property. Just 1

Re Cubbie station, It is a blight on the land .Get it back to growing wool !
I could hardly believe my ears - I think it was last weekend on the tv watching and listening to a promoter for Cubbie talking about the great benefits of saving downstream properties from 100 klm wide floods ! They were responsible for saving the world !
So it's OK for Cubbie to Irrigate but when the good Lord tries to help the people downstream with a good natural cycle irrigation they stop it . With all the huge Irrigation storages pumped out to grow export cotton [ and we are exporting the water that grew it ], it could be years before there are any flows of significance to help those downstream towns and Stations.

There are two cotton farms adjacent for sale with their water entitlements ,that equate to about half of Cubbie's.These should be bought by the Federal, Qld and NSW Governments immediately. kartiya .

That's interesting kartiya. I would suggest that only corporates or the govt would be able to afford these properties. However, call me a pessimist, but I cant see the govt stepping in, especially not the QLD govt. I wonder if the NSW govt would purchase these properties, given that good management of them would see benefits flow downstream to NSW?? Too much to hope for.

Have you-all stopped to consider fow-ar wun seccun thayat the hoe-all ahdeah uv Cubbie Station may be nuthin moe-ah thayan t' hahyahlight certun ayahledgedlee Constut-yushunayal issues i-yun yo' fayah lann? Iyuts awll Buwll shee-ut! You-all is beyunn conned! Dayumm Yankees is behiyund awl thiyuss! "Juyump dowun, turnaroun, pick a bayul a cotton, Juyump dowun, turnaroun, pickabayal a day, juyump down......."

Country Gal,
As I understand it the Federal government was asked by Queensland to contribute to the purchase of Cubbie on a shared basis some 4 years ago . It refused .It may not refuse now .
However ,listening to the owner or his representative on the ABC's AM radio's progamme this morning ,he flatly refused to consider selling Cubbie "at any price ".
So that is what the 8 or so concerned downstream mayors and their residents that are affected by Cubbie, will have to battle to get a share of the catchment's water .
The Cubbie bloke obviously wants a REAL big quid !

Off the topic but a necessary note to stop any possible confusion.
To All esteemed contributors to THE NATIONAL FORUM ,due to my somewhat dodgy computor skills [according to my smarty pants family] and a sign in error, I am now , for now ,posting as kartiya jim instead of jusy plain kartiya.Same bloke, and yes, my name is jim. cheers .
ps "kartiya" has a time neglected blogspot for more debate or friendly banter.

Hello its taken me sometime to find a chat group about the poor farmers suffering because of no rain well this may blow you away there is no reason for this other then globel goverment control of the weather,at this you may laugh but once you do the reasearch you will see its no laughing matter they "the goverment dont want rain so it forces the farmers to give up they want australia to be a torist destination "period"
importing all livestocks,wheats,grains etc etc
do a search online type in the word HAARP
go to this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or2c7kk-pzE&mode=related&search=
its all scary stuff but very very true
im sure little johnny horWARd is totally unaware of all this as he has his little nose to far up mr bush'es backside to see clearly but do the rearch yourself and you will see that weather control is here and unless you make a stand you the farmer will be the ones to go down the gurgler
have a look at this doco aswell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlORegrdVXM
or if you can find a copy of this
Angels Dont Play This Haarp
all true and all scary what the controlling goverments will do not only to crontrol but to kill humans off like cattle
much Love Layla

laymemadly,

Im not sure exactly where you are going with that one..:)

The Goverment manipulating the weather maybe.

How so?