TAX,TAX,TAX!......that is all we seem to hear! It is all just a slick way of making money for nothing, and we are rapidly reaching the situation where we will soon be one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in!

Nobody needs to be paying Fuel Tax, simply because we could and should be all driving Hydrogen powered vehicles, which when equipped with their own Hydrogen producing cell run on water, ( with no pollution )!

Why are we NOT doing this now you ask?......simply because the big money makers out there,....the Oil Companies, the Refineries, the fuel Distibutors and most of all the Governments, do NOT want a power source that is derived from the garden tap!.....( at least not yet, until the current Fuel/Oil cow has been milked dry!)

Without any shadow of a doubt we will see the miracle of self-contained Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles sometime in the future, but not until the rapidly increasingly valued water reaches cost levels which will be close to the cost levels of the fossil fuels that we are now
using ( and getting increasingly angry about!)

The Automobile industry has the expertize to build a self-contained
Hydrogen powered vehicle which will run on water, but as usual prefers not to.....and you don`t have to put too much thought into the reasons why! This revolutionary power source is being denied from the population because nobody can make money (after the initial purchase price and ongoing road fees) from a vehicle that can filled from the garden tap!......remember what has happened to all the genuine fuel-saving devices and innovations in the years gone by?....all gobbled up and hidden away by the self interest groups who simply refused to accept less profit, in the long term helping to continue the ever-increasing problem of pollution, whilst maintaining their own profits and in the Governments case maintaining a relatively fail safe Fuel Tax Revenue base!

Where have all the honest people in this world disappeared to?....there certainly aren`t many skulking around the corridors of power in this country!

Sorry, that stupid post limit got me again. Bring it up on OzPolitic if you don't want to have to wait a few days to finish this.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/green-tax-shift.html

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168051896

"Fuel is a necessity... even more so than most foods.

Wrong. Food is a necessity. Fossil fuels are not. We got by without them in the past and we can again in the future. Lets think about this rationally. We could not completely eliminate food. We would starve. We could completely eliminate fossil fuels. We would just replace them with more expensive renewable alternatives. The cost would be high, but not as high as not being able to eat.

Furthermore, we consume far more fuel than we need to. We basically waste a lot of it. We drive very inefficient vehicles, simply because the price of fuel has gone down relative to other things we spend our money on. We transport our goods long distances using less efficient, more costly emthods.

Finally, the issue of taxing to internalise the cost of roads has has nothing to do with whether something is a necessity. We need food, but only a communist thinks we should have it provided by the government. You pay for your food. You should pay for your roads to, and taxing fuel is the best way to charge people for roads. The fact that you 'need' something has never been an excuse to get it for free. In fact, our 'need' for fuel is a better reason to increase taxes, to stop people wasting it all before it starts to run out on us.

"Free diver you are so crimson wrong!

No, I am right. You are wrong.

"national roads groups have asked why is so little of fuel tax being returned to roads and you say an educated ques?

Are you the one who said you could back this up?

"22 years building and fixing .... how would I know anything about them?

You don't seem to have any idea of budgetary allocations across all areas of government. But why would you, just because of your job?

It seems pointless in some ways to talk about fuel tax when we could easily minimise our dependency on oil within a relatively short period of time. We have enormous gas reserves in this country - why are we selling it off at 4c a litre and then buying oil for a much higher price. Is it cynical to think 'vested interests'? Perhaps the current taxes on fuel could be diverted to improving public transport, building a better rail system, more bikepaths etc.

While acknowledging the good intentions behind reducing or eliminating fuel taxes, once you tax something it is very hard to get rid of it. If taxes are removed private interests will just raise the prices on the assumption that the punters are used to paying a particular price for a particular product. They make more profit - we lose tax dollars that would have gone to infrastrucutre and are still just as disadvantaged.

"My point? how many trucks travel our roads every week?
How much tax is paid by just one that uses so much fuel?

You still haven't made a point here.

"Both now and in my past job training never stopped, not so very long ago we spent less than half of what we spend now on roads, even now we do not spend as much as we take in surely you do understand that?

I understand what you are saying. I also understand that you cannot back it up, even though you claim ot be able to.

"And do you understand Australia is not just its city's?

Duh.

"That farm fuel bills are crippling those who pay them?
No silly story's about trains carrying our freight please the lines do not exist in most places.

Do you understand how capitalism works? Doing it tough is not a valid excuse for subsidies.

Cuphandle:

"Why are we NOT doing this now you ask?......simply because the big money makers out there,....the Oil Companies, the Refineries, the fuel Distibutors and most of all the Governments, do NOT want a power source that is derived from the garden tap!.....( at least not yet, until the current Fuel/Oil cow has been milked dry!)

No. It's because there are far cheaper ways to reduce emissions. They can only be accessed via price signals, not through direct government interference. We are not a communist country and should not try to become one every time a change is needed.

pelican:

"why are we selling it off at 4c a litre and then buying oil for a much higher price.

Is the price really higher? It's the energy content, not the colume that matters.

"If taxes are removed private interests will just raise the prices on the assumption that the punters are used to paying a particular price for a particular product.

Not true. Market forces would prevent such an arbitrary price increase. However, consumption would go up so the price drop would be less than the tax.

Freediver how many gallons of fuel do we use annually in Australia?
How much tax is paid on each gallon?
How much did we spend on roads in the same period?
My education while with the RTA told me roads and the money we spend on them have been a battle ground for 45 years maybe more.
In NSW a Labor state government introduced a 3 cents a litre extra tax for 3 years to build roads.
It was often said it was not spent on roads, the federal government now collects it after a court upheld a challenge.
The man who was to become the Hawk minister for roads traveled my highways full length meeting cameras road crews and me on the trip.
he told us we spent then less than half that fuel tax on roads.
We now spend very much more but nothing like all fuel tax on roads surely you know that?
General review gets fuel tax too.
IF government spent 10% of fuel tax on developing or funding the development of new cars we could without much effort get double current distances from the same fuel inputs.
I wounder Freediver did you once have another site? one I once posted on?
I once posted on the site you promote now and hope it gets going for you

Belly and Freediver

here are some numbers you may find of interest on government spending and fuel excise revenues (all in $ million - sorry, I haven't worked out how to get tables or tabs into these posts, so it looks a bit messy)

Spending:
Road transport ___ 11,031
Water transport __ 496
Rail transport ___ 5,415
Air transport ___ 171
Communications and other transport __ 3,153
Total ___ 20,267
Source: ABS Cat. 5512.0

Excise duty:
Petrol __ 7,128
Diesel __ 6,197
Other fuel products __ 803
Total __ 14,128
Source: 2007-08 budget papers

you can argue a case either way from these data - fuel excise is more than expenditure on roads but less than spending on all forms of transport.

My view is that when you take account of the indirect costs (greenhouse gases, pollution, accidents, land used for roads that could be used for someting else) as well as direct construction/maintenance costs, then cost recovery from transport the tax burden level on transport is probably a bit light compared to costs imposed, but the emissions trading scheme should redress the balance.