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The Forum > General Discussion > Equality of Outcome or Opportunity

Equality of Outcome or Opportunity

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Robert “I owe much to those who have gone before.”

Mostly our parents and those who know or knew
us, not an official from some remote government bureaucracy.

“I can appreciate that choice is probably the
only thing that is truly ever mine and the most
precious thing I have.”

Exactly and we each need to cherish it.

“I can also appreciate that without "society" my
life would be vastly poorer and probably vastly
shorter, that I'm not independant of others.”

But neither are you totally dependent upon others.

Infact, psychiatrists consider co-dependency a
singularly unhealthy thing, yet we hear socialists
pronounce its virtues every day.

“At one end of the spectrum is survival of the fittest
and at the other a lack of choice for the individual
and meaning stripped from life.”

And I believe, simply, that a life without choice or
individual meaning is not worth surviving for and
the proof of that are in the people who chose to risk
death to escape over the Berlin Wall, although some
say we should forget that because, hey,
it was 20 years ago.

“There is a balance which neither we as individuals
or our governments will ever get and keep right “

I prefer to keep government “power poor”
and authority devolved, because
once they get power they find excuses not to
give it back.

And of course, life is a journey and the sad folks
are those who arrive at the destination before they die.

Thanks for bringing up this topic Robert, I have
certainly enjoyed myself, not to necessarily
persuade others but to clarify for myself some of
what I believe in and stand for.
Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 23 June 2008 11:38:01 PM
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Equality of outcome is socialism. Equality of opportunity is a 'brand' of capitalism, though it doesn't have to take that form.

Most western soceties are somewhere in between. We all get a basic education regardless of how rich our parents are. We have health and income safety nets. But we all have lots of opportunities we are free to take up, but choose not to.
Posted by freediver, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 1:33:13 PM
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There is a role for government - as Col points out, as regulator. But precisely what constitutes regulation is a definition that shifts.

I wouldn't embrace anarcho-capitalism. One of the more interesting discussions I've had on OLO was here, where a self described socialist, a moderate free-market supporter and myself discussed the issue. I lean more to the free market approach, but with appropriate government intervention where required.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=464#9913

Capitalism is not perfect. Some say we can't improve it. I say that's bollocks, and as I said before, the ground is always shifting. As R0bert said, it may be a well worn cliche, but it is indeed the journey - because there's no destination in sight.

No system is static, and any system taken to its extremities is ultimately is harmful to society at large. The idea of capitalism is unfettered freedom to sell and purchase, but when you consider that companies tend to aggregate toward monopolies, you quickly see that pure capitalism would be destructive.

But of course, it's still the best system. I just don't want capitalism without checks and balances.

I've argued in favour of protectionist agricultural policies (only because competitors to Australia use them and I think we should peg ours to a proportion of theirs in an effort to discourage them). Similarly, I think the US system of capitalism delivers far less for the American people than the sheer wealth produced by their economy dictates it should, when compared to European countries and Australia. This, to me, suggests something is very wrong.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 3:01:01 PM
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Col, I've found the discussion very interesting and thought provoking. When I spoke of those who had gone before I wasn't thinking so much of family, friends or government officials but rather those who have worked to build the body of human knowledge that I tap every day. The knowledge that continues to be built upon and passed down to those who've neither paid for it or earned it. The knowledge that was once as simple as how to start a fire to cook food and keep the cold at bay.

I'm very practical and can generally do most problem solving tasks but I can't think of anything I do thats not built on the knowledge left over from someone elses work.

I enjoy opportunities and freedoms that my ancestors didn't enjoy because somewhere back in the past others struggled to ensure that normal people could have access to an education (other than the school of hard knocks). I love books and have lots but I also appreciate that I can get access to other books via the library or via online sources.

I don't owe government bureaucrats, they are just those we pay to administer stuff.

Governments do abuse power, we do need to keep checks in place and treat any attempt to take more power with great suspicion and be adamant about taking back what no longer needs to be in their control.

I tread a line between personal autonomy and a recognition of the broader needs of society. I know that without the efforts of others who I'll never know I and my family would have little opportunity to choose because we would not know enough to make choices.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 7:05:08 PM
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