Council knocked backed the proposal on "planning" grounds, NOT "religious" grounds. The development WILL go ahead "if" the developers address those planning issues in the future, or if they issue a successful court challenge, as is their right in a free country.

Many of the public spectators at the now infamous council meeting were NOT THE LEAST BIT INTERESTED in the planning issues........they just hate Muslims and don't want Muslims on "their" turf. It's the old Aussie "fear of other cultures"....we've seen this paranoid, inbred fear before when Italians migrated, when Greeks migrated, when Chinese migrated etc etc. Gee, even the ancestors of "white" Aussies migrated, remember that? Did "our" ancestors ask the inhabitants of this land for their permission? We all know the answer to that. No, they just came here, took what they wanted and inflicted a foreign culture upon this land. The Aussie "blokes and sheilas" of Camden know this and are paranoid with fear that this will happen to them!! They've fallen for all the propaganda, are convinced that all Muslims are terrorists and all Muslims desire to "force" Islam upon them. They know "they" are right, and that anybody who doesn't agree with them just doesn't know the facts. They're the perfect targets for propaganda...... receptive, pliable, suggestible.

Paranoia rules the day among these types. That's life, and it's always been that way. The human race, despite our technology, remains horribly primitive, barbaric and territorial.

Rural folk become bitter, and cling to racism and religion

Dear Phillips.

You said:

<<Did "our" ancestors ask the inhabitants of this land for their permission? We all know the answer to that.">>

COMMENT: We also know what our ancestors DID to them.

<<No, they just came here, took what they wanted and inflicted a foreign culture upon this land.>>

COMMENT: which you admit in the above.

<<The Aussie "blokes and sheilas" of Camden know this and are paranoid with fear that this will happen to them!!>>

COMMENT: Of course.. they have absolutely no historic precedent on which to base this fear?:)

<<They've fallen for all the propaganda">>

Interesting perspective:

Not sure which propoganda u mean. Newscorp? Would you mean the many many acts of terrorism which have been reported? (none of which actually happened of course...right?)

Or..perhaps Tracy Grimshaw on ACA repeatedly trying to get a straight answer from Wassim Dourehi on "Is Australia an enemy of Islam?" 3 times.
Or the 11 men in Sydney and 12 in Melbourne on trial for allegedly plotting horrific acts of terror on our shores including blowing up the MCG on grand final day.

It might even be that some of them have read the Quran, and it's command to make war on non Muslims. Surah 9:29 & 30 (but they just take that out of context...right? and of course they have never met a Muslim, specially the kind one who lives next door to you:)

I hope one of these days, someone will actually take the time to try to refute the present day applicability of such teachings/commands, but alas, they just take the easier and less time consuming path of calling everyone "paranoid" and "Islamophobic":)

PS.. the only reason our ancestors did what they did to Australia was..'numbers'...they had them. Are you suggesting human nature has improved since then? Maybe it's just 'white' people who do such evil things when they have the power...yeah..thats it:)

philips: << Many of the public spectators at the now infamous council meeting were NOT THE LEAST BIT INTERESTED in the planning issues........they just hate Muslims and don't want Muslims on "their" turf. It's the old Aussie "fear of other cultures"....we've seen this paranoid, inbred fear before when Italians migrated, when Greeks migrated, when Chinese migrated etc etc. >>

Quite so - and it's exactly these xenophobes that Islamophobic nutters like Boazy seek to recruit in their odious campaign of hatred and vilification.

steel: << Rural folk become bitter, and cling to racism and religion >>

That may be so in many places, but the residents of Camden could hardly be described as "rural folk" these days. Rather, those who we saw on TV were the kind of bogan battlers who have moved out of their former suburban wastelands into areas that were formerly rural.

Like many who exist literally on the outer fringes of society, they are often hateful towards anybody who is different to them, and tend to project their hate and uncertainty on to those with whom they compete most directly for jobs and housing.

Unfortunately, it is these people who often become willing if ignorant footsoldiers in culture wars conducted by ideologically-driven lunatics who ceaselessly promote fear and loathing. What does the future hold for Camden?

Probably a more modest Muslim school, situated in an outer suburban bogan nightmare.

Dear CJ

<<ignorant footsoldiers in culture wars conducted by ideologically-driven lunatics who ceaselessly promote fear and loathing.>>

Sounds like flaming to me :)

As I've said many times, raising awareness is not ceaselessly promoting fear and loathing. But... I don't mind taking it easy for a while, specially since all that I've been saying was confirmed today by some chaps from Oman, Saudi Arabia and Afganistan, manning a 'Discover Islam' stall at the MindBodySpirit event in Melbournes exhibition buildings.

The 2 verses I usually point to are in Surah 9:29 and 30.

See my last post in the interpreting thread for more info on that.
I asked the bloke from Saudi Arabia to read 9:30 to me and comment on its meaning. He did so, and then, after we cordially discussed it for a bit, along the lines of 'How do you think Christians might feel to read or hear such things'? he said "But these are the words of Allah"

Then, as if to drive the point home (or some might say 'twist the knife') he quoted from another surah which was harsher still on Christians who believe Christ is the Son of God.

He didn't do this to annoy me, but to explain the position unambiguously.

The meaning I've been reporting for 9:29 (fight them) was agreed without the slightest hesitation by them also.

The thing Aussies don't realize is that they are actually 'sincere' in their belief about these things. This is the scary bit.. it's not a reaction to anything outside Islam, but simply the manifestation of the faith in original purity.

We enjoyed some more banter, and friendly digging, and we parted on cordial terms as I returned to our stall.

Later one of them (From OMan) came to our stall and we had a long and deep conversation about the faiths. (more detail in new thread if approved)

In religion we have some people who, even in these modern times, interpret their ancient holy books LITERALLY.....this applies to BOTH Christianity AND ISLAM. It suits the agenda of some fundamentalist Christians in Western society, and other anti Islam people, to emphasise LITERAL interpretations of Islamic violent text, and to point out that some fundamentalists from Islam ALSO interpret LITERALLY.......the Christians' point being that ALL Muslims believe in violence, ALL Muslims believe in forcing their beliefs on others and ALL Muslims believe in LITERAL interpretations of ancient texts.

It's a view based on fear of what they don't understand (but believe they do), and paranoia and defence of their fundamentalist Christian religious turf. They of course, completely ignore the myriad of violent quotes found in ancient biblical texts. Why? Because it doesn't suit their agenda to offer, in public, literal interpretations of violent Christian text But they're happy to do it with "LITERAL" interpretations of violent, Islamic ancient text

But if they can convince anyone that ALL Muslims, worldwide, from ALL cultures, unquestioningly believe in "LITERAL" interpretations of ancient Islamic texts......then they feel they're doing their job in defending Christianity/or Aussie culture: Regardless of the FACT that they are merely telling DISTORTIONS of fact, they KNOW that "some" paranoiac and frightened people will believe every word they say.

Some people love to pretend that violent terrorists, and their sympathisers, are NO DIFFERENT to the ordinary, everyday Muslims who, just like most Christians, live in peace wishing no harm on others. Their ignorant goal is to tar ALL Muslims with the same brush, and because there's so many terrorist, political acts committed by violent people "claiming" to act under the mantle of Islam, their task is pretty easy....... their false analogy being if someone claims to be Muslim and commits violence then "ISLAM AS A WHOLE" is guilty and ALL Muslims are potentially the enemy, evil, wicked and violent. It's simply paranoia gone crazy, but it pleases the fundamentalist Christians and the other bigoted members of the community who HATE and/or FEAR people who are not EXACTLY the same as "them".